4 ms·

This is about levels of abstraction. You can ask the cloud to deploy a container to Kubernetes. You can rent a VM with Hetzner. You can rent rack space in a da

by jupp0r 5y ago

This is about levels of abstraction. You can ask the cloud to deploy a container to Kubernetes. You can rent a VM with Hetzner. You can rent rack space in a data center. You can build your own data center. You can build your own server hardware. Depending on the scale you operate, you'll draw the line somewhere where it makes sense to you (which may change over time). Dev teams will still operate best when they can deploy containers to Kubernetes and without having to design their own server hardware. You now need to build abstractions in house. Maybe you can sell these to other people? Congratulations you are now a cloud provider.

anonymoushn 5y ago
> Dev teams will still operate best when they can deploy containers to Kubernetes Jeez really? We have like, binaries deployed to machines over here.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Nobody said you can't operate with old-style VMs and ansible or puppet or whatever, but tbqh yes, you're going to move slower. It may not be fatal to your business; it's not going to be a top 3 reason you succeed or fail! But it does make a difference.
  - funcDropShadow 5y ago
    > Nobody said you can't operate with old-style VMs and ansible or puppet or whatever, but tbqh yes, you're going to move slower. To stay in your metaphor, moving faster is not a guarantee to arrive at your target earlier. As long as everything works fine, using k8s is great. When you have to dig deep to solve a problem, a stack with less layers might be a huge advantage.
  - robrorcroptrer 5y ago
    Is everything about to move fast? When you read a book, is it a race to get to the last page? When you sing a song, is the goal to get to the last word as soon as possible?
    - krageon 5y ago
      If you'd do it for an employer, the answer to all these questions is yes.
  - guiriduro 5y ago
    Sounds like you moved your complexity from machine virtualization to container orchestration. Doesn't sound like you won anything, least of all agility.
- bigbluedots 5y ago
  Binaries are so last-century, now everyone's shipping the entire OS!
  - jupp0r 5y ago
    Containers can contain just a single statically linked binary. Infrastructure doesn’t care.
    - krageon 5y ago
      They practically never do, nothing that you use or would read about it assumes that you do. That makes this response a little pedantic, even though it is strictly true.
      - jupp0r 5y ago
        It's actually quite common in the Golang world.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Don’t come here speaking sense against a decade of marketing! Realistically I wish someone would just write an orchestrator that runs Go processes and nginx and glues it all together.
  - forty 5y ago
    Can't a container mostly be a Go process? "Marketing" as you said, made this concept of "container", but I think using the words "process" and "namespaces" is still ok.
    - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
      I don't agree "container" is marketing-speak; you could say it was appropriated, but I was using linux-containers in early 2000s when it was still a kernel patch. We all knew that bare metal offers a lot and our servers are underutilized most of the time, and VMs were considered a heavier option.
      - forty 5y ago
        I still think using "container" lose the fact that it's just a process with some tweaks :) I'm not saying "marketing" as to say it was coined by non technical people, but rather that it's a way to "sell" the feature. Like you go see your manager and say "I'm going to containerize the application" vs saying "I'm going to add some isolation settings to the process"
  - cyberge99 5y ago
    Consul and nomad would like a word with you.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      See my post history. No thanks :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30020427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30020427
  - kcartlidge 5y ago
- jupp0r 5y ago
  I still remember spending money for an FTP client that could “live edit” Perl CGI scripts on the server.
killingtime74 5y ago
I deploy Kubernetes to Hetzner with https://github.com/vitobotta/hetzner-k3s https://github.com/vitobotta/hetzner-k3s
kavalg 5y ago
And with hetzner you can rent bare metal servers as well. It is somewhat equivalent to renting rack space, but they bring the servers, not you. The advantage is that if a server fails, they can provision a new one in less than 1 hour. The disadvantage is that you are probably running on somewhat refurbished hardware that has a higher prob of failing (at least these were the rumors in the past). 5-6 years ago, this was (by far) the most cost effective solution for Hadoop/HDFS deployments. IDK what the status quo is now. As others have pointed out it is relatively easy to deploy small k3s clusters on Hetzner Cloud.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  > The advantage is that if a server fails, they can provision a new one in less than 1 hour. I can confirm that. I've been running a few servers with them and my experience is that the older ones had a failure every 2-3 years. Usually it was a disk, sometimes the power supply. Once 2 of 3 disks failed but I managed to rebuild the array (it was the HDD era so it took several hours), no data needed to be restored from backup. But since 2018 I had no failures at all. And I'm happy to see their ecosystem grow.

by jupp0r 5y ago

anonymoushn 5y ago

> Dev teams will still operate best when they can deploy containers to Kubernetes Jeez really? We have like, binaries deployed to machines over here.

bpodgursky 5y ago
Nobody said you can't operate with old-style VMs and ansible or puppet or whatever, but tbqh yes, you're going to move slower. It may not be fatal to your business; it's not going to be a top 3 reason you succeed or fail! But it does make a difference.
- funcDropShadow 5y ago
  > Nobody said you can't operate with old-style VMs and ansible or puppet or whatever, but tbqh yes, you're going to move slower. To stay in your metaphor, moving faster is not a guarantee to arrive at your target earlier. As long as everything works fine, using k8s is great. When you have to dig deep to solve a problem, a stack with less layers might be a huge advantage.
- robrorcroptrer 5y ago
  Is everything about to move fast? When you read a book, is it a race to get to the last page? When you sing a song, is the goal to get to the last word as soon as possible?
  - krageon 5y ago
    If you'd do it for an employer, the answer to all these questions is yes.
- guiriduro 5y ago
  Sounds like you moved your complexity from machine virtualization to container orchestration. Doesn't sound like you won anything, least of all agility.
bigbluedots 5y ago
Binaries are so last-century, now everyone's shipping the entire OS!
- jupp0r 5y ago
  Containers can contain just a single statically linked binary. Infrastructure doesn’t care.
  - krageon 5y ago
    They practically never do, nothing that you use or would read about it assumes that you do. That makes this response a little pedantic, even though it is strictly true.
    - jupp0r 5y ago
      It's actually quite common in the Golang world.
hughrr 5y ago
Don’t come here speaking sense against a decade of marketing! Realistically I wish someone would just write an orchestrator that runs Go processes and nginx and glues it all together.
- forty 5y ago
  Can't a container mostly be a Go process? "Marketing" as you said, made this concept of "container", but I think using the words "process" and "namespaces" is still ok.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    I don't agree "container" is marketing-speak; you could say it was appropriated, but I was using linux-containers in early 2000s when it was still a kernel patch. We all knew that bare metal offers a lot and our servers are underutilized most of the time, and VMs were considered a heavier option.
    - forty 5y ago
      I still think using "container" lose the fact that it's just a process with some tweaks :) I'm not saying "marketing" as to say it was coined by non technical people, but rather that it's a way to "sell" the feature. Like you go see your manager and say "I'm going to containerize the application" vs saying "I'm going to add some isolation settings to the process"
- cyberge99 5y ago
  Consul and nomad would like a word with you.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    See my post history. No thanks :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30020427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30020427
- kcartlidge 5y ago
jupp0r 5y ago
I still remember spending money for an FTP client that could “live edit” Perl CGI scripts on the server.

killingtime74 5y ago

I deploy Kubernetes to Hetzner with https://github.com/vitobotta/hetzner-k3s https://github.com/vitobotta/hetzner-k3s

kavalg 5y ago

And with hetzner you can rent bare metal servers as well. It is somewhat equivalent to renting rack space, but they bring the servers, not you. The advantage is that if a server fails, they can provision a new one in less than 1 hour. The disadvantage is that you are probably running on somewhat refurbished hardware that has a higher prob of failing (at least these were the rumors in the past). 5-6 years ago, this was (by far) the most cost effective solution for Hadoop/HDFS deployments. IDK what the status quo is now. As others have pointed out it is relatively easy to deploy small k3s clusters on Hetzner Cloud.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
> The advantage is that if a server fails, they can provision a new one in less than 1 hour. I can confirm that. I've been running a few servers with them and my experience is that the older ones had a failure every 2-3 years. Usually it was a disk, sometimes the power supply. Once 2 of 3 disks failed but I managed to rebuild the array (it was the HDD era so it took several hours), no data needed to be restored from backup. But since 2018 I had no failures at all. And I'm happy to see their ecosystem grow.