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The article misses a significant device: Onyx Nova 3. The major difference between its prior color offering (poke 2) is the integration of a Wacom layer that ma

The article misses a significant device: Onyx Nova 3. The major difference between its prior color offering (poke 2) is the integration of a Wacom layer that makes this very good for note taking. The other hardware and software improvements appear to be incremental. Of particular note with all Onyx readers is that they run Android, opening up the ecosystem of the Play store and particularly your note-taking app of choice. Unfortunately, color eink are roughly 100 dpi compared to the 300 of b&w, although it's a layer over the b&w display so normal black and white content is still much crisper. The color layer does make it all appear darker though. Also, ghosting can be a problem. Onyx has a few refresh settings that minimize it at the cost of refresh time. It looks like note taking is usually done on a faster refresh rate with occasional full screen refreshes to clean things up. I'm not sure the tech is fully there yet, but it looks like it works well enough for things like color PDFs and comics. For heavy note taking color is probably not a requirement for most. I like the idea of the other larger b&w Onyx readers running android though. The Play store apps would add a lot of options over the Remarkable.

seneca 5y ago
It's worth noting that Onyx violates the Linux kernel license, and has a ton of telemetry that phones home to China. Major down sides for otherwise interesting tech.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Wow yes, that's a downside. I found a forum post [0] where someone monitored web traffic and it was analytics data, but still not great. And the GPL violation is an abuse of the FOSS community they rely on for free development. [0] https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335605 https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335605
  - unityByFreedom 5y ago
    Well, they come out with three new versions of their devices per month and you probably have no chance of servicing any type of warranty as they are based in China. You're not missing much if you wait for a company who can make decisions to release a better product, and you'll probably save yourself a headache.
    - riffraff 5y ago
      Your country can still restrict their ability to import in your country if you sue them, afaik.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Citation requested.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      I'm familiar with the GPL claims. I'm not familiar with the telemetry claims. I'm asking for specific references both to establish the claims and to serve as an anchor reference to anyone encountering this thread in future. Finally, I much prefer DDG, and have used it for about a decade now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473250
      - ineedasername 5y ago
        It was not clear which you claims you were referencing. Your goal of memorializing references was not clear. The request, in the form you posted, does not seem to be a productive way of achieving your ends. This may be especially true because in recent years I have noticed that "citation requested" types of comments are often used as a passive aggressive way of telling someone they're wrong, or the precursor to attacking the source once it's provided, especially on topics that have fast answers with a quick search. (including ddg in this case, which also returns appropriate results in the top 3 on both questions.) I would respectfully suggest a different phrasing for such requests. I think I am not the only one who has noticed this unfortunate change in tone for a simple "citation requested", and so as I indicated they have have become much less productive to conversation. I have had to choose my own words more carefully in this respect as well.
        dredmorbius 5y ago
        Fair points. What I'd thought I'd asked clearly wasn't communicated. I frequently request, and provide, references. Including the bare form apparently falling from favour: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20citation%20requested&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20you%20references&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20%22notes%3A%22&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- Plasmoid 5y ago
  I wonder what could be done about that? Could someone sue them for the copywritten code?
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Anyone who owns copyright on part of the infringed code should be able to. International seems like a pain, they're a Chinese company, I think? Should be able to at least block import if you try hard enough. I'm not a lawyer though.
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  What's your basis for the "phones home" claim specifically?
solarkraft 5y ago
I have a Boox Nova 2 and can mostly recommend it. It's true that Onyx violates the GPL and has some privacy concerns around it, but on the upside the bootloader is unlocked by default and you can root the system fairly easily, allowing you to install a firewall restricting some of the phoning home (https://blog.tho.ms/hacks/2021/03/27/hacking-onyx-boox-note-air.html https://blog.tho.ms/hacks/2021/03/27/hacking-onyx-boox-note-...). I'm beginning to use it as a general purpose Android tablet. The low refresh rate takes a bit of time to get used to, but I find that it causes you to interact with the device more slowly and carefully at points, which reduces the chance for distractions a bit (it's not that low though, you can actually watch the occasional video, the ghosting isn't actually even that bad). I don't think the note capability is very good with the default app (I think it's unusable, in fact), but a new mode adds compatibility with OneNote (which I also don't like, but is probably less buggy). It's still a brilliant device for reading using Koreader, browsing the Web using Fennec/EinkBro and taking notes using a pen on GBoard's swipe input functionality. Just mind that the battery doesn't last as ridiculously long as you may be used to with this usage pattern. I get through about a day with fairly heavy usage. A color display would be a welcome addition, but the gigantic oversight the Nova 3 Color's developers have made is not adding a warm light. It's what I exclusively use on my device.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  not adding a warm light Yes that looks like a strange choice. In videos it looks like that distorts the colors, shifting toward blue. It looks like battery is reasonable on all the Onyx devices if you're not on wifi though, despite the overhead of Android. Probably some heavy throttling if background app activity too. Otherwise, backlights on Kindle ereaders still allow for very long battery life-- how does the Nova 2 fare? A week of battery would still be pretty great for a tablet note taking tablet w/ Android if it can manage that with occasional wifi use to sync notes or check email.
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    It depends how you use it. I've gotten over 20 hours screen on time reading mainly comics with it set to refresh every page and WiFi on downloading issues along the way. I don't use the frontlight typically though. I don't charge mine more than once a week but I also don't really browse the web on my Nova 2.
tomComb 5y ago
Having no official play store also means you aren't getting the silent security updates today are a critical aspect of Android security. I wonder why they have avoided Android certification. It is the only thing holding me back at this point.
- cyphar 5y ago
  No eInk tablet has Android certification. As far as I understand, one of the issues is that the screen refresh rate is too low to get certified. It is very easy to set up Google Play on the Onyx Boox tablets. You just press a button in settings, enter your login details, click another button and that's it.
boondaburrah 5y ago
Onyx makes the best ereader hardware and the worst software. I really wish they hadn't gone with android (they used to have a linux firmware and supplied SDK), since like most android IoT devices (though this isn't one) you get stuck with an abandoned android distro from day one. The actual reading app is buggy as well (can absolutely get stuck when flipping pages backwards, then suddenly flips like 20 for one button press). The wacom stylus (I love that the touchscreen isn't sensitive to my palm) is the best feature of my boox n96ml though. It's got a nice big screen for scribbling notes on and appears to be pressure sensitive as well. That alone sold it to me and I still don't regret it because having a wacom-type stylus is just /that good of a feature/.
- m-p-3 5y ago
  Are you aware of any Android-based custom ROMs for them? I'd be somewhat okay with that if I can keep my device up-to-date myself.
mas-ev 5y ago
I really enjoy my Onyx Nova 3. It's a fairly novel device. Your comment is a great summary. Like most, I wanted an ereader for consuming books without an LCD/OLED screen. I liked the idea of a color reader for the syntactic highlighting of code snippets. I further leaned into color once I realized there was a market for Android based ereaders. This means I can more easily treat it as a second phone to browse books, manga, github, HN, Pocket, Medium etc. As other commenters pointed out, you probably do want to lock down the device and enable Google play store. I have NetGuard installed since it's constantly phoning home to China. If you are comfortable with the price and understand the limitations (DPI, ghosting, darker screen) then it's a pretty great device. The pen is great and responsive but it doesn't replace pen/paper. I primarily use the pen to mark up books/PDFs. The native library app it ships with is pretty great and beats out Moon+ Reader and other apps I've tried. OneNote is particularly great for note taking and worth calling out. However, I can't find myself integrating it into my work flow. You can set different options to negate ghosting. It's nice to be able to save these options to a specific app. My biggest wishes would be higher DPI, brighter screen, and a warmlight option. I'm not optimistic we will see any drastic innovation in the next few years. Kaleido/Plus isn't anything groundbreaking. I do hope that I'm wrong. There's a clear demand for this technology to improve.
culopatin 5y ago
After I read your comment I don’t see how the article missed this device. The article is about color e-ink technology and it’s progression, not about note taking or Android with e-ink. Why would the Nova 3 be worth mentioning if the color display is not particularly better than what they are describing towards the end?

seneca 5y ago

It's worth noting that Onyx violates the Linux kernel license, and has a ton of telemetry that phones home to China. Major down sides for otherwise interesting tech.

ineedasername 5y ago
Wow yes, that's a downside. I found a forum post [0] where someone monitored web traffic and it was analytics data, but still not great. And the GPL violation is an abuse of the FOSS community they rely on for free development. [0] https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335605 https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335605
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  Well, they come out with three new versions of their devices per month and you probably have no chance of servicing any type of warranty as they are based in China. You're not missing much if you wait for a company who can make decisions to release a better product, and you'll probably save yourself a headache.
  - riffraff 5y ago
    Your country can still restrict their ability to import in your country if you sue them, afaik.
dredmorbius 5y ago
Citation requested.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    I'm familiar with the GPL claims. I'm not familiar with the telemetry claims. I'm asking for specific references both to establish the claims and to serve as an anchor reference to anyone encountering this thread in future. Finally, I much prefer DDG, and have used it for about a decade now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473250
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      It was not clear which you claims you were referencing. Your goal of memorializing references was not clear. The request, in the form you posted, does not seem to be a productive way of achieving your ends. This may be especially true because in recent years I have noticed that "citation requested" types of comments are often used as a passive aggressive way of telling someone they're wrong, or the precursor to attacking the source once it's provided, especially on topics that have fast answers with a quick search. (including ddg in this case, which also returns appropriate results in the top 3 on both questions.) I would respectfully suggest a different phrasing for such requests. I think I am not the only one who has noticed this unfortunate change in tone for a simple "citation requested", and so as I indicated they have have become much less productive to conversation. I have had to choose my own words more carefully in this respect as well.
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        Fair points. What I'd thought I'd asked clearly wasn't communicated. I frequently request, and provide, references. Including the bare form apparently falling from favour: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20citation%20requested&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20you%20references&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20%22notes%3A%22&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
Plasmoid 5y ago
I wonder what could be done about that? Could someone sue them for the copywritten code?
- kadoban 5y ago
  Anyone who owns copyright on part of the infringed code should be able to. International seems like a pain, they're a Chinese company, I think? Should be able to at least block import if you try hard enough. I'm not a lawyer though.
ngcc_hk 5y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dredmorbius 5y ago
What's your basis for the "phones home" claim specifically?

solarkraft 5y ago

I have a Boox Nova 2 and can mostly recommend it. It's true that Onyx violates the GPL and has some privacy concerns around it, but on the upside the bootloader is unlocked by default and you can root the system fairly easily, allowing you to install a firewall restricting some of the phoning home (https://blog.tho.ms/hacks/2021/03/27/hacking-onyx-boox-note-air.html https://blog.tho.ms/hacks/2021/03/27/hacking-onyx-boox-note-...). I'm beginning to use it as a general purpose Android tablet. The low refresh rate takes a bit of time to get used to, but I find that it causes you to interact with the device more slowly and carefully at points, which reduces the chance for distractions a bit (it's not that low though, you can actually watch the occasional video, the ghosting isn't actually even that bad). I don't think the note capability is very good with the default app (I think it's unusable, in fact), but a new mode adds compatibility with OneNote (which I also don't like, but is probably less buggy). It's still a brilliant device for reading using Koreader, browsing the Web using Fennec/EinkBro and taking notes using a pen on GBoard's swipe input functionality. Just mind that the battery doesn't last as ridiculously long as you may be used to with this usage pattern. I get through about a day with fairly heavy usage. A color display would be a welcome addition, but the gigantic oversight the Nova 3 Color's developers have made is not adding a warm light. It's what I exclusively use on my device.

ineedasername 5y ago
not adding a warm light Yes that looks like a strange choice. In videos it looks like that distorts the colors, shifting toward blue. It looks like battery is reasonable on all the Onyx devices if you're not on wifi though, despite the overhead of Android. Probably some heavy throttling if background app activity too. Otherwise, backlights on Kindle ereaders still allow for very long battery life-- how does the Nova 2 fare? A week of battery would still be pretty great for a tablet note taking tablet w/ Android if it can manage that with occasional wifi use to sync notes or check email.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  It depends how you use it. I've gotten over 20 hours screen on time reading mainly comics with it set to refresh every page and WiFi on downloading issues along the way. I don't use the frontlight typically though. I don't charge mine more than once a week but I also don't really browse the web on my Nova 2.

tomComb 5y ago

Having no official play store also means you aren't getting the silent security updates today are a critical aspect of Android security. I wonder why they have avoided Android certification. It is the only thing holding me back at this point.

cyphar 5y ago
No eInk tablet has Android certification. As far as I understand, one of the issues is that the screen refresh rate is too low to get certified. It is very easy to set up Google Play on the Onyx Boox tablets. You just press a button in settings, enter your login details, click another button and that's it.

boondaburrah 5y ago

Onyx makes the best ereader hardware and the worst software. I really wish they hadn't gone with android (they used to have a linux firmware and supplied SDK), since like most android IoT devices (though this isn't one) you get stuck with an abandoned android distro from day one. The actual reading app is buggy as well (can absolutely get stuck when flipping pages backwards, then suddenly flips like 20 for one button press). The wacom stylus (I love that the touchscreen isn't sensitive to my palm) is the best feature of my boox n96ml though. It's got a nice big screen for scribbling notes on and appears to be pressure sensitive as well. That alone sold it to me and I still don't regret it because having a wacom-type stylus is just /that good of a feature/.

m-p-3 5y ago
Are you aware of any Android-based custom ROMs for them? I'd be somewhat okay with that if I can keep my device up-to-date myself.

mas-ev 5y ago

I really enjoy my Onyx Nova 3. It's a fairly novel device. Your comment is a great summary. Like most, I wanted an ereader for consuming books without an LCD/OLED screen. I liked the idea of a color reader for the syntactic highlighting of code snippets. I further leaned into color once I realized there was a market for Android based ereaders. This means I can more easily treat it as a second phone to browse books, manga, github, HN, Pocket, Medium etc. As other commenters pointed out, you probably do want to lock down the device and enable Google play store. I have NetGuard installed since it's constantly phoning home to China. If you are comfortable with the price and understand the limitations (DPI, ghosting, darker screen) then it's a pretty great device. The pen is great and responsive but it doesn't replace pen/paper. I primarily use the pen to mark up books/PDFs. The native library app it ships with is pretty great and beats out Moon+ Reader and other apps I've tried. OneNote is particularly great for note taking and worth calling out. However, I can't find myself integrating it into my work flow. You can set different options to negate ghosting. It's nice to be able to save these options to a specific app. My biggest wishes would be higher DPI, brighter screen, and a warmlight option. I'm not optimistic we will see any drastic innovation in the next few years. Kaleido/Plus isn't anything groundbreaking. I do hope that I'm wrong. There's a clear demand for this technology to improve.

culopatin 5y ago

After I read your comment I don’t see how the article missed this device. The article is about color e-ink technology and it’s progression, not about note taking or Android with e-ink. Why would the Nova 3 be worth mentioning if the color display is not particularly better than what they are describing towards the end?