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> At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying This is a little too first world. if the work were too sparse an

> At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying This is a little too first world. if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? Does Meta not have those options? The frustration feels almost artificial, if one does not want to get more work, then maybe just go boating or mountain biking. Watch some sports and play video games.

granshaw 5y ago
It’s probably that he has to “be available” and so can’t make good use of the working hours where he’s not doing active work It’s a common obstacle to making good use of your time even when underworked and working remotely. Ideally one could find non-team settings where this wouldn’t be an issue
seemaze 5y ago
Or contribute to your favorite flavor of open source!
- amelius 5y ago
  I imagine React was created by Facebook slackers.
2457013579 5y ago
As someone who worked remote at a large company and spent the last year or so doing this, I don’t think it’s a viable long term solution, at least for me. I’ve been traveling every month (7 times in other countries), spent countless hours gaming, got some certificates, etc, etc.. all the while still looked at as a “top performer” on my team. Due to the nature of bigger organizations (or at least mine), there isn’t an option for me to take on more responsibility or extra work (I can’t help but ask for these things too often and get general feedback of “slow your roll, that’s not how it works here”). I played around with the idea taking on a part time job or consulting or something, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I would find greater purpose/meaning spending my full headspace in a single job I was passionate about. This is definitely a first world problem, and I’m lucky to have the opportunity to be in this type of situation. It’s also not the same way everyone feels, since there are a lot of people that are at big organizations for long periods of time, but I share sentiment with the article and parent comment.
- boppo1 5y ago
  What do you do for a living/ what was that job? Current job?
srcreigh 5y ago
The point is getting a few hours of productive work in some enviroments takes more and more and more effort that it seems impossible to even keep trying.
tjr225 5y ago
Sure, maybe it is "first world." That doesn't change anything. If I'm stuck at home making 80$ an hour and I hate it, then it doesn't matter how "first world" it is- I'm still going to figure out how to change the situation. Are you saying that people who are dissatisfied with privileged situations shouldn't have opinions or write about them? Everything is relative.
- pawsforthought 5y ago
  Absolutely. I dislike the offhand dismissal of things as first world problems, most especially because, if we can find a way to a future where the rest of the world catches up in living standards, these will be everyone’s problems.
stepanhruda 5y ago
Definitely there, but author probably didn’t find those fulfilling. The rest are leisure activities, which might again not work when a problem solver is looking to apply themselves.
ethbr0 5y ago
> [Why not] join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks [...] go boating or mountain biking. Watch some sports and play video games[?] (A) Because there's a fundamental cognitive dissonance to being able to say both "My job is important enough to stay in" and "My job is unimportant enough that I should spend a lot of time doing unrelated things." (B) Because author doesn't want to pursue alternative hobbies with his work chunk of time. He wants to write exciting code. (C) Because while employed, there's an expectation that you're doing the work well. If you feel like you aren't, even if you're doing as decent of a job as the system allows you to, it eats at you. Badly.
tippytippytango 5y ago
It doesn't work like that. You have to be "on" even if you aren't working. That means you feel like you can't commit to anything substantial since you feel like you should be working. Fucking off on the internet is a coping mechanism to numb the pain of being in this limbo where you aren't working; but, feel like you should be working because you are getting paid a lot. In retrospect it's easy to see that there's this spare time available to do other things; but, when you are in it, it's not obvious where the boundary is between this extra time and where the work time should be. I know it sounds like a first world problem; but, it actually feels really awful to be in this spot because you can't even admit you are there to anyone without feeling like a slacker/loser/failure/time-thief, a torturous trap.
- croh 5y ago
  terrible time. you feel like losing the game, falling behind from all new cool-aid drinks. You feel like your friends and colleagues are working on something cool, and then suddenly re-org happens and you wonder is your career on right track ?
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Last two years of my life was this. Sitting at home with nothing meaningful to do but still having to park my butt in my kids bedroom.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    So why didn't you use your time better and invest in other skills you want to have?
    - Damogran6 5y ago
      "Why don't you just not be sad?"
fhrow4484 5y ago
>> At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying > This is a little too first world. if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? Where did he mention wanting more work? He mentioned unsatisfying work, I doubt doing interview loop recruiting people when you find your own work unsatisfying is gonna make you a good interviewer (and I'd hate to be the interviewee there). And take classes/training to what end? At 9 years in, I doubt there's many relevant trainings, and learning the intricate details of yet another internal proprietary system has limited returns. > just go boating or mountain biking. Watch some sports and play video games. None of these activities leads to finding satisfying, purposeful work, nor are they really good at negating the effects of the unsatisfying work.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Or you can not tie your identity to work as much as you do, and feel instant relief?
- ravenstine 5y ago
  Right. "Just learn k8s, bruh." It's like ok, maybe, but if the problem isn't so much a lack of work then you're really juat apinning your wheels learning for the sake of it. Another issue is evaluating whether the juice is worth the squeeze. It's easy to say "learn a new skill bruh", but what happens when you spend the time learning something, you get hired at a new job relevant to that skill only to run into your original problem all over again? The risk of that is significant, and in the world of tech it's extremely difficult to know what a position at a company is really like because so many of us are kissing ass, and we are avoidant of any real criticism or confrontation. None of the argumenta here are necessarily wrong, but speaking as if there are clear solutions that those complaining aren't seeing and calling this a first world problem is pretty dismissive.
Barrin92 5y ago
> if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? because it's never that easy. If you try to get work from somewhere else maybe your manager starts to think you're bored or not interested, you definitely can't just leave and go mountain biking because then you look even lazier. So at the end of the day in every gigantic organization a substantial amount of people sits around and does nothing, that's just how it goes. it's not first world, it's just that in bug business you're just a salaryman.
- scollet 5y ago
  > bug business Ship it
  - erwincoumans 5y ago
    Move fast, bug things.
goodlinks 5y ago
Any job ive had regardless of pay, regardless of how good its been for how long, what the job market is like... after about 5-10 minutes wondering if I am adding value I will look for another. I have one life, I need to have money to live but thats easy, actually having a positive impact is a reason to do something for someone else. I dont necessarily apply but its its all i am thinking about untill I have value to add again: what am I doing here?
wahnfrieden 5y ago
Try reading Graeber’s Bullshit Jobs for more perspective on this

granshaw 5y ago

It’s probably that he has to “be available” and so can’t make good use of the working hours where he’s not doing active work It’s a common obstacle to making good use of your time even when underworked and working remotely. Ideally one could find non-team settings where this wouldn’t be an issue

seemaze 5y ago

Or contribute to your favorite flavor of open source!

amelius 5y ago
I imagine React was created by Facebook slackers.

2457013579 5y ago

As someone who worked remote at a large company and spent the last year or so doing this, I don’t think it’s a viable long term solution, at least for me. I’ve been traveling every month (7 times in other countries), spent countless hours gaming, got some certificates, etc, etc.. all the while still looked at as a “top performer” on my team. Due to the nature of bigger organizations (or at least mine), there isn’t an option for me to take on more responsibility or extra work (I can’t help but ask for these things too often and get general feedback of “slow your roll, that’s not how it works here”). I played around with the idea taking on a part time job or consulting or something, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I would find greater purpose/meaning spending my full headspace in a single job I was passionate about. This is definitely a first world problem, and I’m lucky to have the opportunity to be in this type of situation. It’s also not the same way everyone feels, since there are a lot of people that are at big organizations for long periods of time, but I share sentiment with the article and parent comment.

boppo1 5y ago
What do you do for a living/ what was that job? Current job?

srcreigh 5y ago

The point is getting a few hours of productive work in some enviroments takes more and more and more effort that it seems impossible to even keep trying.

tjr225 5y ago

Sure, maybe it is "first world." That doesn't change anything. If I'm stuck at home making 80$ an hour and I hate it, then it doesn't matter how "first world" it is- I'm still going to figure out how to change the situation. Are you saying that people who are dissatisfied with privileged situations shouldn't have opinions or write about them? Everything is relative.

pawsforthought 5y ago
Absolutely. I dislike the offhand dismissal of things as first world problems, most especially because, if we can find a way to a future where the rest of the world catches up in living standards, these will be everyone’s problems.

stepanhruda 5y ago

Definitely there, but author probably didn’t find those fulfilling. The rest are leisure activities, which might again not work when a problem solver is looking to apply themselves.

ethbr0 5y ago

> [Why not] join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks [...] go boating or mountain biking. Watch some sports and play video games[?] (A) Because there's a fundamental cognitive dissonance to being able to say both "My job is important enough to stay in" and "My job is unimportant enough that I should spend a lot of time doing unrelated things." (B) Because author doesn't want to pursue alternative hobbies with his work chunk of time. He wants to write exciting code. (C) Because while employed, there's an expectation that you're doing the work well. If you feel like you aren't, even if you're doing as decent of a job as the system allows you to, it eats at you. Badly.

tippytippytango 5y ago

It doesn't work like that. You have to be "on" even if you aren't working. That means you feel like you can't commit to anything substantial since you feel like you should be working. Fucking off on the internet is a coping mechanism to numb the pain of being in this limbo where you aren't working; but, feel like you should be working because you are getting paid a lot. In retrospect it's easy to see that there's this spare time available to do other things; but, when you are in it, it's not obvious where the boundary is between this extra time and where the work time should be. I know it sounds like a first world problem; but, it actually feels really awful to be in this spot because you can't even admit you are there to anyone without feeling like a slacker/loser/failure/time-thief, a torturous trap.

croh 5y ago
terrible time. you feel like losing the game, falling behind from all new cool-aid drinks. You feel like your friends and colleagues are working on something cool, and then suddenly re-org happens and you wonder is your career on right track ?
spookthesunset 5y ago
Last two years of my life was this. Sitting at home with nothing meaningful to do but still having to park my butt in my kids bedroom.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pdimitar 5y ago
  So why didn't you use your time better and invest in other skills you want to have?
  - Damogran6 5y ago
    "Why don't you just not be sad?"

fhrow4484 5y ago

>> At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying > This is a little too first world. if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? Where did he mention wanting more work? He mentioned unsatisfying work, I doubt doing interview loop recruiting people when you find your own work unsatisfying is gonna make you a good interviewer (and I'd hate to be the interviewee there). And take classes/training to what end? At 9 years in, I doubt there's many relevant trainings, and learning the intricate details of yet another internal proprietary system has limited returns. > just go boating or mountain biking. Watch some sports and play video games. None of these activities leads to finding satisfying, purposeful work, nor are they really good at negating the effects of the unsatisfying work.

pdimitar 5y ago
Or you can not tie your identity to work as much as you do, and feel instant relief?
ravenstine 5y ago
Right. "Just learn k8s, bruh." It's like ok, maybe, but if the problem isn't so much a lack of work then you're really juat apinning your wheels learning for the sake of it. Another issue is evaluating whether the juice is worth the squeeze. It's easy to say "learn a new skill bruh", but what happens when you spend the time learning something, you get hired at a new job relevant to that skill only to run into your original problem all over again? The risk of that is significant, and in the world of tech it's extremely difficult to know what a position at a company is really like because so many of us are kissing ass, and we are avoidant of any real criticism or confrontation. None of the argumenta here are necessarily wrong, but speaking as if there are clear solutions that those complaining aren't seeing and calling this a first world problem is pretty dismissive.

Barrin92 5y ago

> if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? because it's never that easy. If you try to get work from somewhere else maybe your manager starts to think you're bored or not interested, you definitely can't just leave and go mountain biking because then you look even lazier. So at the end of the day in every gigantic organization a substantial amount of people sits around and does nothing, that's just how it goes. it's not first world, it's just that in bug business you're just a salaryman.

scollet 5y ago
> bug business Ship it
- erwincoumans 5y ago
  Move fast, bug things.

goodlinks 5y ago

Any job ive had regardless of pay, regardless of how good its been for how long, what the job market is like... after about 5-10 minutes wondering if I am adding value I will look for another. I have one life, I need to have money to live but thats easy, actually having a positive impact is a reason to do something for someone else. I dont necessarily apply but its its all i am thinking about untill I have value to add again: what am I doing here?

wahnfrieden 5y ago

Try reading Graeber’s Bullshit Jobs for more perspective on this