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Silicon fabs do not make server boards. They just produce the silicon wafer i.e. "die" of a semiconductor device. Most die must be assembled into a package befo

Silicon fabs do not make server boards. They just produce the silicon wafer i.e. "die" of a semiconductor device. Most die must be assembled into a package before they can be used. The die packaging aka "backend" is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Most backend is in Taiwan or Malaysia or China. Even after the die is packaged, it needs to be mounted on a complete PCB with all the other components. Intel typically does not do PCB assembly, they mostly just sell assembled CPUs (or other devices) to other companies that do the PCB assembly.

rotten 5y ago
They said that there would be spin off and supporting industry also moving into this new industrial zone. Maybe a board manufacturer will move in, to pick up the chips from Intel one side of their operation, and deliver them to AWS on the other.
nebula8804 5y ago
I know there are PCB manufacturers somewhere in the US. I don't know about packaging. Do you know which firms do packaging of the dies and why can't the US do it(It can't just be cost)? How hard can it be really? Its essentially plastic , maybe some metal, and gold isn't it? Maybe an argument could be made to locate at least one source of manufacturing for all these steps in a local area. But thats just the programmer in me wanting to optimize without understanding the realities of manufacturing costs.
- 55873445216111 5y ago
  It's all about cost. The assembly and test is the "low tech" part of semiconductor manufacturing and can be done well in Asia by workforces that are not as highly educated as those you need to run a fab. US and western economies have always focused on doing the highest value add portions of manufacturing domestically (where the highly educated workforce is key) while outsourcing the lower value add (lower margin) portions of the supply chain. Consumers demand low cost. Many times they just buy the cheaper widget, because most people are not even capable of distinguishing the differences in performance or quality between two different widgets. But the difference in price is obvious to everyone and so most people just use that. The pressure of reducing every single penny out of the cost or semiconductors is enormous. Top 10 OSAT (outsourced assembly and test) companies: https://evertiq.com/news/51003 https://evertiq.com/news/51003
42365767567 5y ago
i think it was a joke...
Melatonic 5y ago
All those datacenters are gonna want a lot of customized CPU SKU's though The used market for CPU's is already amazing every time AWS dumps a ton due to a hardware refresh cycle - in a few years it is gonna be amazing!
- immibis 5y ago
  Where do you get in on that?
  - Melatonic 5y ago
    ebay or wherever really
    - crakenzak 5y ago
      AWS lists their old hardware on ebay? through official accounts or what?
      - Melatonic 5y ago
        Nah not official - it ends up at various resellers. Not sure what they do directly with it. Getting in on THAT would likely be a very good deal!
        Breza 5y ago
        It's interesting to watch what Amazon runs directly versus what they contract. IIRC they own trailers but contract the semis to pull them. At one point, they actually considered buying an RV park for their seasonal warehouse employees. I wonder why they don't directly sell their surplus like the government does at gsaauctions.gov.
IshKebab 5y ago
> The die packaging is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Are you sure? TSMC definitely does packaging. And it seems like it would be crazy to ship a delicate unpackaged die to a different factory when you could just keep it in a clean room and do everything in one place. I think it would be mad for Intel not to do packaging there. > needs to be mounted on a complete PCB Intel sells lots of CPUs that aren't soldered to PCBs.
- 55873445216111 5y ago
  > Are you sure? TSMC definitely does packaging. And it seems like it would be crazy to ship a delicate unpackaged die to a different factory when you could just keep it in a clean room and do everything in one place. I think it would be mad for Intel not to do packaging there. True, the very advanced packaging techniques, such as TSMC CoWoS or Intel EMIB, are done at the fabs by those companies. These packages are for very high performance multi-chip interconnects. In both cases, the "package" itself actually is partially constructed from silicon, so we are kind of blurring the lines between what is "chip" and what is "package". The vast majority of chips do not use packages anywhere near this advanced and are not done at fabs. Also, it's not crazy to ship finished wafers (i.e. "unpackaged die"); it's standard practice. Once the final process steps are complete in the fab, the chip is not as sensitive to fine particles any more. The wafers get loaded into cassettes then vacuum-sealed in anti-static bags. They ship out to the backend assembly sites just fine. In fact, globally, there are probably ~100,000 wafers shipped like this every day. > Intel sells lots of CPUs that aren't soldered to PCBs. True. But if you are buying an LGA socketed Intel CPU, the silicon die had to first be mounted on a substrate and the heatspreader attached. That wasn't done at fab, it was done at backend assembly. Ever notice that Intel CPU's often say something about "assembled in Malaysia" on top? That's because it was assembled in Malaysia. Intel does not have any semiconductor fabs in Malaysia, meaning, they fabbed it in one place and assembled it in another. If you are a company like Dell or HP and you are buying the laptop BGA CPUs, Intel still had to assemble those into the BGA package before shipping to Dell/HP. And the BGA package assembly also is not done at fab.

rotten 5y ago

They said that there would be spin off and supporting industry also moving into this new industrial zone. Maybe a board manufacturer will move in, to pick up the chips from Intel one side of their operation, and deliver them to AWS on the other.

nebula8804 5y ago

I know there are PCB manufacturers somewhere in the US. I don't know about packaging. Do you know which firms do packaging of the dies and why can't the US do it(It can't just be cost)? How hard can it be really? Its essentially plastic , maybe some metal, and gold isn't it? Maybe an argument could be made to locate at least one source of manufacturing for all these steps in a local area. But thats just the programmer in me wanting to optimize without understanding the realities of manufacturing costs.

55873445216111 5y ago
It's all about cost. The assembly and test is the "low tech" part of semiconductor manufacturing and can be done well in Asia by workforces that are not as highly educated as those you need to run a fab. US and western economies have always focused on doing the highest value add portions of manufacturing domestically (where the highly educated workforce is key) while outsourcing the lower value add (lower margin) portions of the supply chain. Consumers demand low cost. Many times they just buy the cheaper widget, because most people are not even capable of distinguishing the differences in performance or quality between two different widgets. But the difference in price is obvious to everyone and so most people just use that. The pressure of reducing every single penny out of the cost or semiconductors is enormous. Top 10 OSAT (outsourced assembly and test) companies: https://evertiq.com/news/51003 https://evertiq.com/news/51003

42365767567 5y ago

i think it was a joke...

Melatonic 5y ago

All those datacenters are gonna want a lot of customized CPU SKU's though The used market for CPU's is already amazing every time AWS dumps a ton due to a hardware refresh cycle - in a few years it is gonna be amazing!

immibis 5y ago
Where do you get in on that?
- Melatonic 5y ago
  ebay or wherever really
  - crakenzak 5y ago
    AWS lists their old hardware on ebay? through official accounts or what?
    - Melatonic 5y ago
      Nah not official - it ends up at various resellers. Not sure what they do directly with it. Getting in on THAT would likely be a very good deal!
      - Breza 5y ago
        It's interesting to watch what Amazon runs directly versus what they contract. IIRC they own trailers but contract the semis to pull them. At one point, they actually considered buying an RV park for their seasonal warehouse employees. I wonder why they don't directly sell their surplus like the government does at gsaauctions.gov.

IshKebab 5y ago

> The die packaging is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Are you sure? TSMC definitely does packaging. And it seems like it would be crazy to ship a delicate unpackaged die to a different factory when you could just keep it in a clean room and do everything in one place. I think it would be mad for Intel not to do packaging there. > needs to be mounted on a complete PCB Intel sells lots of CPUs that aren't soldered to PCBs.

55873445216111 5y ago
> Are you sure? TSMC definitely does packaging. And it seems like it would be crazy to ship a delicate unpackaged die to a different factory when you could just keep it in a clean room and do everything in one place. I think it would be mad for Intel not to do packaging there. True, the very advanced packaging techniques, such as TSMC CoWoS or Intel EMIB, are done at the fabs by those companies. These packages are for very high performance multi-chip interconnects. In both cases, the "package" itself actually is partially constructed from silicon, so we are kind of blurring the lines between what is "chip" and what is "package". The vast majority of chips do not use packages anywhere near this advanced and are not done at fabs. Also, it's not crazy to ship finished wafers (i.e. "unpackaged die"); it's standard practice. Once the final process steps are complete in the fab, the chip is not as sensitive to fine particles any more. The wafers get loaded into cassettes then vacuum-sealed in anti-static bags. They ship out to the backend assembly sites just fine. In fact, globally, there are probably ~100,000 wafers shipped like this every day. > Intel sells lots of CPUs that aren't soldered to PCBs. True. But if you are buying an LGA socketed Intel CPU, the silicon die had to first be mounted on a substrate and the heatspreader attached. That wasn't done at fab, it was done at backend assembly. Ever notice that Intel CPU's often say something about "assembled in Malaysia" on top? That's because it was assembled in Malaysia. Intel does not have any semiconductor fabs in Malaysia, meaning, they fabbed it in one place and assembled it in another. If you are a company like Dell or HP and you are buying the laptop BGA CPUs, Intel still had to assemble those into the BGA package before shipping to Dell/HP. And the BGA package assembly also is not done at fab.