15 ms·

Since the article and the study are light on the details of "persistent" Here's the supporting data's in a bit more detail[0]. Overall this makes sense to me a

• xlii 5y ago
  Your comment strikes me cause I’ve been doing the same with alcohol - not to get drunk but to impair some of the logical thinking and analysis in the evenings. Funnily enough I started to deal with ADD/ADHD in my family recently and learned from the doctor that this kind of behavior is symptomatic in adults. Recently doc even shared this with me: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32489193/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32489193/ Not directing this at you particularly but starting treatment helped with my family life so hoping it can nudge someone to their own benefit.
  • agumonkey 5y ago
    To cut it short, I think a tiny amount of alcohol can be a superb bargain. It allowed me to stay a bit neutral in parties (instead of crippled by anxiety and phobia). And being around people, even like a wallpaper had strange positive effect on my moral. I don't know if doing that long term (even tiny amount of beer) would harm your body, but having zero social life is also very very damaging.
    • mellavora 5y ago
      Well, we are social creatures. Even the most introverted of us (finger points at self). So no surprise that being around parties/other people has a positive effect on moral. The health benefits of the social contact almost certainly outweigh the negative health impacts of a tiny amount of alcohol.
      • otherme123 5y ago
        A lot of drugs make you more social, but sadly they are all outlawed except alcohol. MDMA was used for years to lubricate psicotherapy sessions, until the FDA found out that some people was having "too much fun", banned the thing, and denied it has any possible positive effect. Only two years ago it seems that it is going to be reseached again. Thomas Szasz has some books about drug history and the paths that turns a substance from legal to illegal. It only takes a high level guy to find the usage, made up some "facts", and illegalize it. Sadly, society is quick to buy those lies. E.g. someone claimed that some guys on LSD stared the sun for too long and got blind. It was a hoax, but so many media repeated the story that it got ingrained in the society that LSD is highly dangerous.
        • mettamage 5y ago
          I wouldn't be surprised if many people have gotten therapy from their friends while on MDMA without even knowing it.
        • deleted 5y ago
          [deleted]
        • 4ggr0 5y ago
          I would like to add psychedelic mushrooms to the list of unnecessarily banned substances, please :)
        • schwartzworld 5y ago
          I am surprised to learn that Szasz was in support of any drug use in therapy, given that he went on to cofound CCHR, a branch of the church of scientology whose mission it is to ban psychiatry. These are the people who claim "psychs" killed Kurt Cobain
          • otherme123 5y ago
        • bjourne 5y ago
    • mettamage 5y ago
      Perhaps slightly TMI, but it's HN so let's share some fun ideas I have about this. __Stress is most likely super linear__ Not a doctor, but from what I know, the biggest negative effects of alcohol occur with binge drinking. From a logical perspective it makes sense that the negative effects are super linear, because that is the case with many forms of stress. When it comes to stress, there is always some threshhold value that you need to reach. When it is just over that threshhold value, you hurt, but you hurt a lot more if you reach 1.5threshhold value because there is 0.5threshhold value to wreak full havoc on your body while 1*threshhold value is being occupied with your body. Obviously, this way of thinking is simplified, but I think that's the intuition as to why many (but not all) forms of stress are super linear. __Effects of alcohol in small and large quantities__ I think I've learned this particular fact about alcohol in my psych classes though, I can't fully remember so I can't cite sources (!). Another thing that I have learned is that alcohol is an upper at low quantities (1 to 2 standard glasses of beer), it gets your heart rate up, etc. It is a downer at larger quantities (e.g. drunk people at 10 standard glasses of beer). If you don't drink much alcohol, then you are most likely experiencing it as an upper, it doesn't continue that way. I like to drink 1 to 2 glasses as well because of what you said, but also because it's an upper. When I was in my drug experimentation phase a few years ago, I've noticed I like uppers more. __How to create upper effects without alcohol__ You don't have to drink alcohol to create an upper effect, when you go to a party, try this the next time: exercise beforehand, like a 3 to 6 mile run (if you have the stamina for that otherwise build it up). That will also produce a mild upper effect like alcohol. Another trick you can do is to present yourself as a hugger at the party (well maybe not with corona) and hug everyone you meet, that will also produce an upper effect. Also, dancing at parties will produce an upper effect (any aerobic exercise really). My workshop on partying is open again in the summer, applications are open :P I guess I miss that time of my life. Partying sober is something to get used to, but it's possible (before I started experimenting with drugs, I started experimenting with partying sober, I've seen both sides).
      • shafyy 5y ago
        > Another trick you can do is to present yourself as a hugger at the party (well maybe not with corona) and hug everyone you meet, that will also produce an upper effect. Also, dancing at parties will produce an upper effect (any aerobic exercise really). This advice is not very productive for people who drink because they have social anxiety at parties though :-)
    • deleted 5y ago
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  • kleiba 5y ago
    Interestingly, this is the reason I decided many years ago _not_ to drink (or consume cannabis). Like the parent, I don't find the reported results especially surprising - the part that would have been most interesting would have been how long after intoxication the observed effects last. Also, unfortunately, it's also clear that not everyone is as prudent with their cannabis consume as them, taking their performance even on the day after into account. I respect that sense of responsibility.
  • loceng 5y ago
    What was the treatment, I presume medication, but was anything preventative-proactive or non-medication prescribed or suggested first re: lifestyle changes like cleaning up diet etc?
    • xlii 5y ago
      Yes, there is a plenty and most are non-invasive. Unfortunately, a lot of research is focused on children and and not a lot of things are being tested (due to safety of children research I presume), however this start to change and more adult-based reasearch is being made. While there is no golden bullet most of the proposed changes are non-intrusive. What we're doing is changing our diet foremost. More Omega-3 acids, shifting toward protein diet and supplementing magnesium and vitamin D. We put a bowl with a lot of nuts (and small bits of chocolate) and it's disappearing astoundingly fast (we were eating nuts before, but by making it more accessible it's just "the stack" and because there are like 8 varietes in the bowls + chocolate chips no one complains about it being bland). ADD/ADHD has a lot of comorbidity with gut issues, so fibre is important too. And there is more and more and more. Making sure that physical activity is present (as it's great dopamine booster), keeping track of sleep patterns (sleep deprivation is common as many ADD/ADHD are light sleepers), recognizing activities with hypnosis like effects, so to not get too drawn in and so on. But in the end there's a lot of knowledge that is power itself. ADD/ADHD has ~70% (lately I heard 76% figure from one doctor) transmissibility, and thus being able to work with it better makes for better family life and parenthood. Family member had a burst of anger this year during Christmas like pretty much every year prior. Few years back? Everyone were scared of escalation and sat in silence for 2 days. This year - everyone shrugged it off as a brain explosion and we went on with holiday celebrations. I would really recommend getting tested if you just as suspect that you or those close to you might be affected by ADHD. ADD/ADHD in adults (and women!) is somewhat new discipline so it might be hard to check oneself out (especially since in some countries it's trivialized by general practitioners as a simple gateway towards stimulants). Worst case you spend some money but the best case you get a portal to a wealth of self knowledge.
      • wincy 5y ago
        I’m assuming when you say “transmissibility” of ADHD you aren’t referring to it being a pathogen, are you speaking about the heritability?
• kumarvvr 5y ago
  Another view, is that, except for the extremely strong willed, getting used to a serene state of mind is addicting and kind of counter productive. Perhaps, addictive is not the right word. But it seems to me (purely from a human nature perspective) its similar to obesity (Eating food is not "addictive", but there is a definite element of "craving" and inability to overcome that craving). All in all, such substances are not natural and, with unchecked use, might put a whole society in danger. This is the reason I am ambivalent about the whole movement to legalize it.
  • aaomidi 5y ago
    Appeal to nature is a logical fallacy. Also, from the things we surround ourselves with. It's probably the most natural.
    • sneak 5y ago
      Even if the appeal to nature weren't bogus, both alcohol and cannabis are as "natural" as things can be in that broken worldview.
      • scaramanga 5y ago
        Yes, it's almost as if society has developed firmly established norms about substance use which are so irrational as to be totally incoherent, and ITT you can find people reflexively confabulating justifications for those norms or trotting out the same tired old bromides to reassure themselves that the topic is being debated and that everything is fine. Or maybe my drug-addled brain is just seeing pink elephants everywhere ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    • elefanten 5y ago
      I smoke, but this is dense. Smoking the natural substance is an unnatural use, by that use of the word. “It grows from the earth” Yeah so does hemlock.
      • dylan604 5y ago
• TriNetra 5y ago
  A persistent high can be achieved by living mindfully with kindness and regular meditation (speaking from direct experience). Hence, I'm not surprised that any high induced with a substance instead, impairs the brain as brain starts depending on the induced experience, without having developed its own mechanism to have such an experience.
  • ganzuul 5y ago
    Many people, especially the young, can not find a peaceful time or place for meditation. The demands placed on them by western society take up too much of their energy. For them, drugs are a must because otherwise they will grow up without any spiritual life at all.
    • zepto 5y ago
      This is just false. Just spend 15 minutes less per day on video games or doomscrolling.
    • to1y 5y ago
      Meditation/self-reflection will take less of your time than drugs. Much less. Plus most "spiritual growth" stemming from drugs is all an illusion.
      • ganzuul 5y ago
        Them, not me. I gladly meditate about 2 hours per day since I have the peace, the time and the place to do so. But it took me many years to get all three of these ingredients for my spiritual fire.
  • deleted 5y ago
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• peterfield 5y ago
  "Doesn't really seem to be answered in a way that I was hoping." Yep a meta review of meta reviews is not really gonna address much lol.
  • playpause 5y ago
    Why not?
• dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Wow, impairment is not my intention at all. But, to not impair myself takes careful moderation and preparation. For cognitive benefits or "virtuous pot smoking", I need to have exercise, sleep, right intentions, a clean room and music. If I do it right, I have transformational ideas. If I don't write them down, they are gone. The first hour is often a wash. I expect little. I often combine with coffee. Then, after an hour, I can work for 6 hours with true inspiration. It makes me care so much. Music is key. It's basically a spiritual work experience. Less is more-- if I smoke too much or too often (3+ times per week) I'm just stoned. I've been working on moderate, prepared, virtuous pot smoking for years. It is still a challenge, but I know i'm not the only high functioning cannabis user.
  • querez 5y ago
    what kind of music do you use? Any playlists you can share?
    • penjelly 5y ago
      brain food on spotify. or anything with no/low lyrics that has a steady energy to it. deep house, lofi, even piano and strings.
    • dr_dshiv 5y ago
      The flow state music podcast on Spotify is perfect. Anything without lyrics.
      • OJFord 5y ago
        Just curious, have you tried doing everything except smoking? Or maybe a conventional cigarette/something else you like. I just wonder when you have so much other 'theatre' (I don't say that putting it down) around it, how much can actually be ascribed to the cannabis. Also, just listened to a few tracks from that, wow no way I could get anything done, I'd just drift off to sleep! (I've never used cannabis, but I imagine that would only make that more likely if anything, not less?) I listen to much more 'up-beat' music while working sometimes; with lyrics but mostly that I don't understand. Ironically I started the playlist partly out of trying to learn the language (Hindi), but mostly it's too fast/advanced/niche for me to pick up much, so for this purpose it's roughly equivalent to not having lyrics I suppose. Except that I might mouth-along to particularly catchy bits even though I don't know what I'm saying usually.
• jacquesm 5y ago
  I've seen some people using Cannabis in the way you describe over longer periods of time. In the short term there is no difference. Over the longer time (say a decade) the effect is noticeable to the point that they were no longer able to function in a job that they held down with ease beforehand. These are pretty heavy users though. I don't have any heavy user in my surroundings that was not affected like that, but the sample size is small enough that this could easily be coincidence.
  • netizen-936824 5y ago
    Personally, I have been a heavy user for well over a decade and I'm attaining not only promotions including greater responsibility at work in tech but high educational achievements as well so YMMV
    • hughrr 5y ago
      Nearly all my friends who smoked it didn’t have any major issues until about 20 years in. YMMV also. Do not assume that short term trends apply in the long term.
      • netizen-936824 5y ago
        People can be quite different neurologically. Some may see issues while others see benefits. I'm not neurotypical and I actually get a great degree of benefit from my cannabinoid use.
  • hughrr 5y ago
    Best way to look at this is to wait until you’re at least 50 and compare with your peers who used it regularly for the last 30 years or so if you didn’t. There’s a 100% correlation on what you suggest. I’m glad I didn’t bother with it at this point.
    • jacquesm 5y ago
      The people I'm talking about are in positions where being smart isn't optional. One poster here provides a nice datapoint to the contrary, and there are probably others. But the interesting thing to me about the people that I know is that they themselves are not aware of it. They attribute their changes to a host of other factors but never to their Cannabis use.
• wayoutthere 5y ago
  Anecdotal, but as a lifelong stoner I would say it takes about a week after sustained heavy use for the cognitive impairment to fully go away. I always quit for a little while when I have something important I need to do in my life.
• chaostheory 5y ago
  I use it as a sleep aid via CBD pills with an equal amount of THC. THC just knocks me out. Dosage is consistent and there’s no smell. I don’t enjoy the high from THC vs alcohol, so I just sleep through it. THC’s high feels like my brain is being “underclocked” which isn’t a pleasant experience for me personally. I’ve tried living without it during the lockdowns since working from home saves hours. From eight months of not using it, I’ve found that I lose about 2-3 hours of sleep per day which drastically affects my performance. I’ve tried melatonin and I consistently workout every week, but nothing is as good as a sleep aid for me as THC
  • brimble 5y ago
    THC to make my brain shut up. Melatonin to put me deep under and keep me from waking up 5 hours in and not being able to fall back asleep. Best sleep of my life. Wish I'd found the combo years ago. Had trouble falling asleep since I was a little kid. Prescription sleep aids I've tried (or, god forbid, alcohol) don't work as well and make me feel shitty in the morning. That combo? Feel like a million bucks. It's great. I worry about the long-term effects, but they'd have to be pretty bad to be worse than years and years of chronic bad sleep.
• fouc 5y ago
  I'm sure that persistence lasts about 2-3 months.
• tracker1 5y ago
  I guess it depends on your goals... for me, it's more about pain management without nausea... just being able to sleep through the night. As I'm now no longer working for a banking institution or govt contractor, it's an option that I prefer.