5 ms·

What is "woke"?

Negitivefrags 5y ago
Generally speaking “woke” means people who believe that “equality of outcome” rather than “equality of opportunity” is the goal.
- froh 5y ago
  This is not correct. Woke is about perception of disadvantage based on race, inequal opportunity based.
  - krageon 5y ago
    As a term it is barely used except by people that overwhelmingly hate the culture (which as said, does not exist as an entity). Asserting what is true and what is not about the term in general doesn't work as a consequence and we should most closely try to approximate what the speaker in question means. I think you covered that well, but for a casual non-native reader it is important to have this expressed.
    - froh 5y ago
      I appreciate the detail!
- Robin_Message 5y ago
  What does it mean to give "equality of opportunity" to a black child in America, who's ancestors were enslaved, who's great grandparent was lynched, who's grandparents couldn't vote, who's parents couldn't go to university because of discrimination? Who lives in a country where three white men can murder a black jogger, and it requires a international outcry for the police to prosecute? As I understand "woke", it does mean trying to equalise "opportunity"; it just recognises that "opportunity" in the sense of "something offered" is not the same as "opportunity" in the sense of "the chance to do well", and tries to correct that. In this particular case, does it make sense to take away gifted and talented programmes? There is clearly equality of opportunity offered. But a woke response might be to also identify individuals in disadvantaged groups who would be at that level were it not for their disadvantage and help them get there.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > What does it mean to give "equality of opportunity" to a black child in America, who's ancestors were enslaved, who's great grandparent was lynched, who's grandparents couldn't vote, who's parents couldn't go to university because of discrimination? Much of this applies almost equally to Slav kids in America (when you account for what their origin countries were like) yet they seem to do pretty well compared to Blacks. So I think there's reason to be skeptical about your claim that "we've offered plenty enough to the Black community and it hasn't helped, so equality of opportunity itself must be the problem". We haven't done nearly enough for true equal opportunity to be achieved, and this goes equally for both mainstream society as a whole and the Black community itself which has often pushed in counterproductive directions.
closeparen 5y ago
A "woke" claim asserts that some widely accepted and seemingly race-neutral practice is actually racist, whether in its intent or its effects. These arguments are often made in terms of disparate impact. Gifted and talented education disproportionately benefits white and Asian students.
- froh 5y ago
  I appreciate the neutral and factual explanation of the term, as a reader from Europe, with English as third language. And I do not understand the downvotes, both to your explanation or to the equally neutral question.
  - beebmam 5y ago
    The downvotes are because this person is unfairly presenting a single perspective on what the "woke" term means. If you aren't willing to present other perspectives and engage with them in good faith, then you're a propagandist.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      It is much better to read a single factual and accurate explanation, than to read two biased perspectives from two shitheads on the opposite sides of political spectrum. Example of 'Woke', non race, non class issue: Relative Age Effect. If you are born in November you have almost no chance of becoming a star athlete, if you are born in January your chances are triple. Noone designed the system to be unjust, but noone throught about ensuring it's fair either, and for decades noone questioned it. That's what 'Woke' people claim to 'detect'. Sometines it's right, sometimes it's wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect
      - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
        This description assumes that a neutral in intent system is unfair, this assumption is specifically woke bias since it prefers equality of result.
akomtu 5y ago
To quote another post that's quickly disappeared from the front page here: > the left’s insecurity about genetics is partly why so many have fallen completely for the critical theory cult, leaving reality far behind, and sustaining this new (and false) consensus at this point solely by punishment of dissent That's pretty much the summary of wokeness.
- whirlaway 5y ago
  Wokeness is about caring about people who look different from oneself, and who aren't in positions of power. The summary you quoted is wrong on every level. Source: Am leftist who is secure about genetics, though would prefer less methylation of my particular genes.
throwaway599281 5y ago
Entry level communist ideals, disguised or a bit diluted for easier public consumption
krapp 5y ago
"Woke is an English adjective meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination' that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.[0,1]" [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke [1]https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-hist... Unfortunately like most terms associated with progressivism, feminism or race, almost no one here ever uses the term in good faith, understanding either its history or taking its purpose at face value, and it's simply become another anti-leftist pejorative.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

What is "woke"?

Generally speaking “woke” means people who believe that “equality of outcome” rather than “equality of opportunity” is the goal.

froh 5y ago
This is not correct. Woke is about perception of disadvantage based on race, inequal opportunity based.
- krageon 5y ago
  As a term it is barely used except by people that overwhelmingly hate the culture (which as said, does not exist as an entity). Asserting what is true and what is not about the term in general doesn't work as a consequence and we should most closely try to approximate what the speaker in question means. I think you covered that well, but for a casual non-native reader it is important to have this expressed.
  - froh 5y ago
    I appreciate the detail!
Robin_Message 5y ago
What does it mean to give "equality of opportunity" to a black child in America, who's ancestors were enslaved, who's great grandparent was lynched, who's grandparents couldn't vote, who's parents couldn't go to university because of discrimination? Who lives in a country where three white men can murder a black jogger, and it requires a international outcry for the police to prosecute? As I understand "woke", it does mean trying to equalise "opportunity"; it just recognises that "opportunity" in the sense of "something offered" is not the same as "opportunity" in the sense of "the chance to do well", and tries to correct that. In this particular case, does it make sense to take away gifted and talented programmes? There is clearly equality of opportunity offered. But a woke response might be to also identify individuals in disadvantaged groups who would be at that level were it not for their disadvantage and help them get there.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > What does it mean to give "equality of opportunity" to a black child in America, who's ancestors were enslaved, who's great grandparent was lynched, who's grandparents couldn't vote, who's parents couldn't go to university because of discrimination? Much of this applies almost equally to Slav kids in America (when you account for what their origin countries were like) yet they seem to do pretty well compared to Blacks. So I think there's reason to be skeptical about your claim that "we've offered plenty enough to the Black community and it hasn't helped, so equality of opportunity itself must be the problem". We haven't done nearly enough for true equal opportunity to be achieved, and this goes equally for both mainstream society as a whole and the Black community itself which has often pushed in counterproductive directions.

closeparen 5y ago

A "woke" claim asserts that some widely accepted and seemingly race-neutral practice is actually racist, whether in its intent or its effects. These arguments are often made in terms of disparate impact. Gifted and talented education disproportionately benefits white and Asian students.

froh 5y ago
I appreciate the neutral and factual explanation of the term, as a reader from Europe, with English as third language. And I do not understand the downvotes, both to your explanation or to the equally neutral question.
- beebmam 5y ago
  The downvotes are because this person is unfairly presenting a single perspective on what the "woke" term means. If you aren't willing to present other perspectives and engage with them in good faith, then you're a propagandist.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    It is much better to read a single factual and accurate explanation, than to read two biased perspectives from two shitheads on the opposite sides of political spectrum. Example of 'Woke', non race, non class issue: Relative Age Effect. If you are born in November you have almost no chance of becoming a star athlete, if you are born in January your chances are triple. Noone designed the system to be unjust, but noone throught about ensuring it's fair either, and for decades noone questioned it. That's what 'Woke' people claim to 'detect'. Sometines it's right, sometimes it's wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect
    - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
      This description assumes that a neutral in intent system is unfair, this assumption is specifically woke bias since it prefers equality of result.

akomtu 5y ago

To quote another post that's quickly disappeared from the front page here: > the left’s insecurity about genetics is partly why so many have fallen completely for the critical theory cult, leaving reality far behind, and sustaining this new (and false) consensus at this point solely by punishment of dissent That's pretty much the summary of wokeness.

whirlaway 5y ago
Wokeness is about caring about people who look different from oneself, and who aren't in positions of power. The summary you quoted is wrong on every level. Source: Am leftist who is secure about genetics, though would prefer less methylation of my particular genes.

throwaway599281 5y ago

Entry level communist ideals, disguised or a bit diluted for easier public consumption

krapp 5y ago

"Woke is an English adjective meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination' that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.[0,1]" [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke [1]https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-hist... Unfortunately like most terms associated with progressivism, feminism or race, almost no one here ever uses the term in good faith, understanding either its history or taking its purpose at face value, and it's simply become another anti-leftist pejorative.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]