30 ms·
Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module
- guywhocodes 5y agoThis would be so much nicer if it was SFP+, 10GBASE-T transceivers are too expensive still IMO.
- sschueller 5y ago? They are like $20 for single mode fiber which you can run for miles. https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/11555.html https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/11555.html
- ZiiS 5y agoExactly. If it was SPF+ you could use that. As it is copper only you need to buy a more expensive (and for most uses less good) copper one for whatever you plug it into.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoI think you mean SFP+, small form-factor pluggable, rather than Sun Protection Factor ;)
- sschueller 5y agoI make that mistake as well, Sender Permit From...
- sschueller 5y agoCopper SPF+ get very hot and waste a ton of electricity. I think doing anything over 2.5G on copper is not ideal.
- stefan_ 5y agoThat's really the big reason you don't see more of 10 GbE - over copper it's kind of terrible technology and you should really use fiber. But that's a big jump, so people stay at 1/2.5 GbE.
- jagrsw 5y agoThey're 50USD or so. The main problem seems to be that they use ~3-4W of power each, and it's more than power budget of a single SFP/+ slot (2W or so), and they become v.hot (~70°C), what can lead to overheating of switches.
- ericd 5y agoYeah, the mikrotiks recommend populating only every other slot if you're using RJ45 transceivers to avoid overheating.
- aix1 5y agoIs the power consumption (and heat dissipation) a function of bit rate? E.g. would the same 10GBASE-T transceiver consume less power when running at, say, 2.5Gb/s than at 10Gb/s? Would love to understand this a bit better. (edit: corrected the units.)
- jagrsw 5y agoSeems so, e.g. this table: https://www.ioi.com.tw/products/proddetail_mobile.aspx?CatID=106&DeviceID=3035&HostID=2069&ProdID=1060194 https://www.ioi.com.tw/products/proddetail_mobile.aspx?CatID... Power consumption (Full bidirectional traffic, 100m cable): 10G speed: 6.41W 5G speed: 4.83 W 2.5G speed: 3.97W 1G speed: 2.94W 100M speed: 2.21W Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-Efficient_Ethernet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-Efficient_Ethernet
- zamadatix 5y agoYes (or at least I've noticed it on mine) but worth noting 99% of 10G RJ45 SFP+ transceivers only support 10G and nothing else. Typically it's only fixed copper interfaces that support negotiating different speeds. The MikroTik adapters are a bit special in that they are more a 2 port transparent bridge where the inside facing portion of the module always runs at 10g and the outside facing portion auto-negotiates. This allows 10G only switch interfaces to support 10/100/1000/2500/5000/10000 clients. In a MikroTik switch it reports back the negotiated speed and the switch can shape traffic to the appropriate bandwidth instead of letting the adapter do it (which I assume is just policed but could be wrong, never tested). I have a 100G switch which is backwards compatible with 40G and allows breakouts so with a QSA can support SFP+ modules... putting this MikroTik module in I can plug a 10 megabit half duplex device into a 100 gigabit port!
- walrus01 5y agowell, a M.2 2280 slot (presumably one that's NVME capable, not SATA only for storage) is just a PCI-E slot in a weird small shape.
- hsbauauvhabzb 5y agoYes, but embedded devices and laptops generally don’t have pci-e.
- martijnvds 5y agoLots of consumer motherboards don't have a lot of PCIe slots wider than x1 (which is not enough for 10GigE), but they often have multiple NVMe capable M.2 slots, that this card would work with. In my home server for instance, which is built on a consumer μATX board, the wider PCIe slots are filled with a GPU and HBA, which leaves no way to add 10GigE without spending a lot of money on a new motherboard and CPU - or finding a way to use the M.2 slot.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago> Lots of consumer motherboards don't have a lot of PCIe slots wider than x1 (which is not enough for 10GigE) Isn't it enough given PCIe 4.0?
- martijnvds 5y agoIf they even exist, PCIe 4 10GbE cards are currently unaffordable (for home use).
- vladvasiliu 5y agoAs others have said, the card also has to be PCIe 4.0. On the used market, I mostly see PCIe 2.0, which means they need quite a lot of lanes. There's also the fact that people usually use "older" components to build home servers, and if I'm not mistaken, PCIe 4.0 is only supported in fairly recent CPUs, and with not that many lanes; whereas my desktop from circa 2012 comes with something like 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes.
- simooooo 5y ago
- loosescrews 5y agoI have had a lot of trouble with the Marvell AQtion controllers under Linux. They are supposed to work and are plug and play on modern kernels, but I was never able to resolve a bug where the controller stopped working after a few hours. The only resolution I found was rebooting, which made the controller not very useful. The Intel 10GbE controllers are more expensive, but much better in my experience. For anyone looking for an alternative, I use an M.2 to PCI-e slot riser and a regular HHHL PCI-e card. Example product: https://www.amazon.com/ADT-Link-Extension-Support-Channel-Mining/dp/B07XMK7ZCR/ref=sr_1_9 https://www.amazon.com/ADT-Link-Extension-Support-Channel-Mi...
- omgtehlion 5y agoIf you do not need a cable, there are m.2 to 4x PCIe (open slot, so you can insert 8x and 16x cards) for $5.
- loosescrews 5y agoI wasn't able to find any of those that support PCI-e 3.0. Both the Marvel and Intel controllers discussed in this thread are PCI-e 3.0.
- omgtehlion 5y agohttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002996748461.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002996748461.html ↑ this one does support gen3. Anyhow, with 4x@gen2 you’ll be fine at 10G speeds (I checked). Gen3 is strictly needed only if you want 2 (or 4) ports, or 25G...
- walterbell 5y agoThanks for the pointer, those are difficult to find via search.
- martijnvds 5y agoADT-Link[0] makes a lot of them, with the cable coming out left, right or "front" of the M.2 card, and with the PCIe slots in all kinds of orientations. [0] http://www.adt.link/ http://www.adt.link/
- sydthrowaway 5y agoIf added to the RPi4x wouldn’t 10GBe saturate the RPi4 CPU?
- martijnvds 5y agoI think the RPi4 doesn't have enough PCIe lanes for 10 gigabit.
- toast0 5y agoLooks like the compute module 4 has one lane of pci-e 2.0, which gets you to 5gbps (theoretically). So yeah, you'll definitely run out of PCI-e bandwidth.
- jamesy0ung 5y agoJeff Geerling got 3.4g with a 4 port Intel NIC
- martinald 5y agoIt's interesting to see just how slow faster ethernet standards have been. Feels like I've had gigabit ethernet at a pretty low cost for nearly 20 years now, but faster than that has been pretty esoteric outside of the datacentre. I guess there really isn't much demand for faster than gigabit speeds even now (outside of servers?)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- doublepg23 5y agoMaybe once gigabit internet service becomes more widely available, but even for something like a consumer NAS you’re probably bottlenecked by something else no?
- glogla 5y agoNAS with SSD can go way faster than the ~ 120 MB/s 1GbE can offer. For NAS with HDD, the benefit is not as big but still there. Also, the main competition is WiFi which is significantly slower than 1GbE in most cases.
- vladvasiliu 5y agoWell, seeing how large SSDs are still very expensive (in my mind it's €100 / TB), my hunch would be that if it makes sense for you to spend that much money on the drives, you probably won't really notice the price of a couple of 10 Gb network cards. They seem quite cheap on eBay if you're OK with used.
- k8sToGo 5y agoIt is not the cards that are that expensive. It is also the switches etc. Also SSD are not 100 EUR / TB. A 4 TB SSD is like 300 EUR.
- 5y ago
- shrx 5y ago> Applications that may make use of the module include machine vision in industrial applications, high throughput network data transmission, high-resolution imaging for surveillance, and casino gaming machines. Does anyone know why is this useful in casino gaming machines?
- Bad_CRC 5y agoI was researching about low latency applications and one seems to be webrtc video for casinos where the croupier hands and cards are streaming to the internet for remote players, could be something like that.
- shrx 5y agoRight, I was thinking about that but I would not call it a "casino gaming machine" in this case, more like a casino security system, so I thought it could be something else.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- manuel_w 5y agoA bit unrelated but still: Can someone recommend quality USB(-C) ethernet adapters brand? I'm building an embedded system in a professional context and need to connect some of our own custom in-house built embedded devices (usb-c only, no ethernet) to LAN. Right now, when some device goes offline, I don't know wether it's our product or the cheapish usb-ethernet-adapter which is at fault. Would like to have something 100% reliable. Shall I buy Lenovo or Dell?
- 3np 5y agoHave tried both Lenovo and Linksys (USB-A, RTL) - in both cases they would have issues and disappear after hours or days after startup. I can not tell you for certain that it's purely an issue with the USB Ethernet adapters and not something else in the stack (Armbian Bullseye). Since it's built in-house, why are you relying on retrofitted USB dongles if reliable Ethernet connectivity is important? Unfeasible to make a revision with a port? Anyway, if I were you I would probably just go ahead and buy one each of the top handful of contenders and try them out myself - they're not expensive and it makes sure that it really works for you, and if not, where the problem lies. If you have the same issue on several adapters with different chipsets, well...
- kkielhofner 5y agoI’d be more concerned with the chip the adapter uses. While I don’t have experience with their USB-C variants I’ve had good experiences otherwise with Axis. As far as I can tell they seem to be the “go-to” in the USB-Ethernet game and are well supported on Linux and anything else I’ve used them on.
- majaxg 5y agoThe sonnet solo10g works like a charm with osx and linux with just a thunderbolt port, around 9,8Gbps. Use SFP+ port instead of Ethernet, more options for connection and less power draining.
- guywhocodes 5y agoBeen eyeing it for a while now gotta admit. The desktop setup I'm looking at would be pretty expensive with both that and a thunderbolt dock. So annoying I can't get a thunderbolt dock with SFP+ directly instead.
- omgtehlion 5y agoYou can DIY it, though. A lot of options on ali/ebay
- jiggawatts 5y agoSome people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second, or tens of gigabits. I transfer large volumes of data to and from a "jump box" in Azure that can easily do 20 Gbps out to the Internet. I regularly update multiple Docker images from scratch that are gigabytes in size, each. I then upload similarly large Docker images back to Azure. Even when physically present at work, I'll regularly pull down 50-200 GB to my laptop for some reason or another. One time I replicated an entire System Center Configuration Manager deployment (packages and all!) to Hyper-V on my laptop because the NVMe drive let me develop build task sequences 20x faster than some crappy "enterprise" VM on mechanical drives. I have colleagues that regularly do big-data or ML queries on their mobile workstations, sometimes reading in a decent chunk of a terabyte from a petabyte sized data set. All of these are still limited by Ethernet PHY bandwidths. Note that servers are 100 Gbps as standard now, and 200 Gbps is around the corner. The new Azure v5 servers all have 100 Gbps NICs, for example.
- crisper78 5y agoawesome dude, I have a 10Gbps setup at home too, totally not a waste to use what you love!
- ninkendo 5y agoI don’t see a use case for 10gb Ethernet in your home network in your post, unless I’m missing something? It sounds like your ISP is limited to 1gbps and all your use cases seem to be bottlenecked by it. Do you have home servers you forgot to mention that you’re uploading docker images to, and those could benefit from 10gb Ethernet? (For me, I use gigabit Ethernet everywhere at home but sometimes need to transfer large disk images from my desktop to my laptop, and using a thunderbolt cable as a network cable helps here, I can get closer to 2 gigabits of transfer speed before disk writes seem to be the bottleneck.)
- 5y ago
- unixhero 5y agonICE!
- roryrjb 5y agoDoes anyone know if this kind of connector works with a PCIe to M.2 adapter? i.e. I have a PCIe card with an NVMe drive connected, could this be used? My motherboard doesn't have an M.2 slot.
- vardump 5y agoI don't see why not, but in that case you're better off using a 10 GbE PCIe ethernet adapter. Cheaper and no internal wiring.
- lucioperca 5y ago#cursed adapters https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22428321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22428321
- top_sigrid 5y agoI did not knew about this, this is pure gold
- lbriner 5y agoAll very well but aren't these devices in most cases the cause of software that is too damned slow? What happens when devs with their 128GB RAM and 64GB graphics cards write things like MS Teams, Slack, Visual Studio, most other IDEs etc.? You get simple apps that take 10 seconds to start up on ordinary desktop machines. As others have said, there are advantages to pushing people to use normal spec machines to remind them that most of the world don't have 10GbE or even 20Mb broadband but would still like apps to start quickly.
- goda90 5y agoEnd users don't have to compile the software each time they want to run it. A dedicated performance testing setup with realistic hardware is better than wasting a developer's time waiting for their machine.
- n00p 5y agoI'd love to see a 10gb SFP - USB-C for my laptop I don't know why is this not a thing yet
- zamadatix 5y agoA small market that cares about 10G performance but don't have a device with a thunderbolt type-c port which performs much better. I'm sure they'll land eventually though.
- omgtehlion 5y agoIf your usb-c is capable of thunderbolt, there are options (prebuilt and DIY), see my other comment in this thread
- omgtehlion 5y agoThere are a lot of m.2 to full-PCIe adapters on AliExpress. And a lot of cheap 10G cards on eBay. I’m using 10G in my home LAN already for ~5 years. And just a month ago I contemplated about upgrading my notebooks to 10G. I ordered a cheap thunderbolt→nvme adapter (for ssds) + m2→pci-e adapter on AliExpress. And they all work like a charm! Total cost was about $55(tb3 adapter)+5(m.2)+25(network card)+$8(SFP+) = 93USD. A lot cheaper than other options like QNAP or Sonnet Solo (which are in $200+ range)
- zamadatix 5y agoI think a lot are missing that this is extremely low profile and has a separated port in contrast to a more typical PCIe riser adapter and HHHL card. Much more suited for hacking in embedded builds, 1u builds where a gpu already takes the horizontal slot, or even laptops if you're brave enough. I don't think it's meant to replace/compete a standard m.2 to PCIe riser on an HTPC or NAS that most are used to seeing.
- nirav72 5y agoI thought I'd never needed 10GbE until I tried to copy couple of large VMs from one a server to a new one. Once I upgraded, I realized that my ISP provided bandwidth was actually 1.2 gb/s instead of the 1 gb. Somehow the default 1gbps port was the restricting factor.