17 ms·
How the Native American population changed since the last census
- thaumasiotes 5y agoYes, if you're willing to pay people to say that they're Native American, over time more people will say it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- nopenopenopeno 5y agoI recently visited my ex-girlfriend, who is part Navajo, when passing through the city she lives in now and we had a good laugh about this. When we were dating, she never talked about being Native American because she didn’t think it would benefit her in any way. We actually argued about whether she should apply for the Native American scholarships available to her and she was against it at the time. But, since the Democratic Party identity politics craze began, she warmed up to the idea and now she shamelessly uses it to her advantage. I hate identity politics and so does she, but I was pleased to learn she became comfortable with it for her own sake. In her case, she never passed for white anyhow.
- phs318u 5y agoOr, maybe because its been economically, socially and legally advantageous to be considered white for hundreds of years, so people who weren't white were saying they were (if they could get away with it). What we're seeing now may be a pendulum swing, and if so, good.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> Or, maybe What difference do you see between my comment and yours?
- Dylan16807 5y agoYou said payment. They described a lessening of discrimination. Those are very different things.
- tmule 5y agoIt’s hardly good if multi-generational white-passing, possibly advantaged folks are reclassifying themselves as white. For example, Elizabeth Warren, who has infinitely more privilege than my brown ass.
- nayaketo 5y agoYup, they'll have both Native and White privilege with this.
- throwawaylinux 5y agoIsn't Warren white and reclassified herself as American Indian though?
- tmule 5y agoCan’t believe I got upvotes despite a typo that makes things confusing. I meant as American Indians.
- rgergerge3 5y agoAs seen by Senator Elizabeth Warren, identifying as Native American can confer quite a few benefits, and that was back in the 80's. These days I can only assume the dividends are even greater. With that in mind it is not a huge leap of the imagination that, if given the option to, many people will self-id as Native American to gain a perceive edge in a society were diversity is increasingly valuable.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago>"What we're seeing now may be a pendulum swing, and if so, good." I was raised to believe that 'the pendulum' coming to rest, so to speak, is the good thing.
- phs318u 5y agoDon't disagree with you. I'm happy it's swinging away from the extreme position its been held in for centuries. I never stated where I want it to come to rest. Maybe if we remove the structures that have kept it in place it will come to rest somewhere agreeable? (though for the majority of those who stand to lose power, it's unlikely to be agreeable).
- jdkee 5y agoSee also the Amish. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-08-01/why-the-amish-population-is-exploding https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-08-01/why-the-a...
- bpodgursky 5y agoIt's not the same. Amish fertility is 5-6 children per woman. Doubling is expected. Native American fertility is actually below replacement (and lower than white, last I saw). But the definition of NA is more expansive, and the population can "expand" through outmarriage.
- lalaland1125 5y ago> and the population can "expand" through outmarriage You see something very similar going on with the Reform Jewish population. Reform Jews have relatively few kids, but a very high intermarriage rate (about 80% of Reform Jews marry non-Jews!) so you see the Reform Jewish population increasing regardless.
- esens 5y agoAnd also the Haredim Jewish sects are seeing strong growth. Both the Amish and the Haredim reject a lot of modernity and are quite conservative as well look to keep traditional families and gender roles. Probably not a coincidence that there are the groups still seeing strong growth.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- reaperducer 5y agoIt's worth noting that the definition of "Native American" varies over time. In addition to people self-identifying for various political, social, and economic reasons, the tribes can decide their own level of generic purity. One tribe can specify that you must be ¼ indian to qualify for their tribe, while others can make it far less or more. All of this leads to the old joke, "What do you call 64 Cheyenne in a room?" "One indian." The linked article unfortunately bases its conclusions on "self-identification," which is problematic. When the federal government sent the tribes billions of dollars in COVID relief money, suddenly there were newly-minted, self-described "indians" crawling out of the woodwork trying to get a check. Also realated, there's currently a bunch of people on a reservation outside of Seattle who are being kicked out of their homes because they're not tribal enough. The tribe changed its definition, and because these people are from a related tribe up in Canada, they no longer qualify. /Friends with a lot of indians. Subscribe to two indian newspapers. And yes "Indian" is correct. It's only white people and city indians who embrace the term "Native American." Rez indians call themselves "indians." Proudly.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoI am not white or a city Native American and I use Indian for people from the country of India, because it results in less confusion.
- runarberg 5y agoIf you want to prevent ambiguity you can use "American Indians" and "People from India". But usually it is clear from the context what you mean.
- runarberg 5y agoWhoa, sorry, I posted this under the wrong post. This was supposed to go under https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29989643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29989643
- unmole 5y ago
- ilamont 5y agoThis trend was noticed in the most recent census. Home DNA tests sold by the likes of Ancestry and 23andme are a contributing factor. “We find that people who have taken a [mail in ancestry test] are not only more likely to self-identify as multiracial, they are particularly likely to select three or more races,” Johfre said. These differences were most pronounced for middle-age adults, which means the U.S. multiracial population would be growing because of more than just new births, the researchers noted. https://news.stanford.edu/2021/05/17/ancestry-tests-affect-race-self-identification/ https://news.stanford.edu/2021/05/17/ancestry-tests-affect-r...
- coldtea 5y agoDoes this mean those are random "1/16th native american" WASPs and such, that claim the heritage because of the results, but otherwise didn't know about it, or have any real relation (demographic, cultural, etc) with native americans? Because that's quite different than Native Americans actually increasing as demographic groups...
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Does this mean those are random "1/16th native american" WASPs and such, that claim the heritage because of the results, but otherwise didn't know about it, or have any real relation (demographic, cultural, etc) with native americans? In the theory under which “race” is meaningful, it is biological and distinct from (and orthogonal to) social “ethnic” categories, so claiming race on that basis is exactly as valid as the idea of race itself. Now, if we admit that “race” is just a dishonest label assigned to certain ethnic categories...
- coldtea 5y agoI'd say, it's a broader concept that includes many ethnic groups with similar geographical origins and/or backgrounds and shared ancestries. Not that precise of course and with fuzzy edges...
- Dylan16807 5y ago
- protomyth 5y agoBack when I was doing grants, I had the US Census for a reservation for 1970, 1980, and 1990. I remember that the total population had not gone up by much (maybe 8,000 to 8,200), but on each census 50% of the population was under 18. That scared me deeply. Doubling would have been happier.
- lalaland1125 5y agoMaybe that was due to a lot of people leaving the reservation?
- protomyth 5y agoI have hopes but I doubt it.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoNative American adults are likelier to have served in the military than the overall population. The American military has its good points. Being more fair/less unfair about racial issues seems to be one of them. My career-Army ex-husband once said to me "We are all part of the Green Race." In other words, we are blood brothers because of the uniform and because of civilians excluding active duty military families. When I was a military spouse, the general unemployment rate was around 5 or 6 percent and the unemployment rate for military spouses was around 30 percent. I think this is in part because locals don't want to hire someone knowing they will likely move again in two or three years and in part because the military has good benefits, so it is still possible -- or was when I was a military spouse -- to support a family on one income, which seems to generally not be true for most Americans these days. The military tends to have a somewhat high percentage of people of color generally. I honestly think it's in part because promotions are less racially biased than they seem to be in the civilian world.
- loosescrews 5y ago> The military tends to have a somewhat high percentage of people of color generally. Isn't this due to the U.S. Military being more attractive to poorer people, which are statistically more likely to be of color?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Slippery_John 5y agoYeah. I was having trouble justifying the cost of college and was trying to go for ROTC but couldn't because of medical issues. My dad essentially used the air force as a means to extract himself from generational poverty. We're white, so money was really the only motivation though I think he overall enjoyed his time there (non-combat role).
- tokai 5y ago>I honestly think it's in part because promotions are less racially biased than they seem to be in the civilian world. But the top brass is definitely not racial diverse. So its actually the other way around. More people of color serve because poorer people are more likely to serve, but even when people of color are over represented in the military they are still underrepresented in the leadership. Making the military even more biased than rest of society. A drill sergeant yelling equally at everyone does not mean that the system is equal.
- Ccecil 5y agoI can only speak from my observation of the tribes local to me. In the 80s and early 90s the reservation was very poor on average (entire area is/was rural so it wasn't just on the res but it was significantly worse there). If you have ever watched the movie "Smoke signals" it has scenes shot which depict life on the local reservation (Coeur d'Alene tribe). Since the mid 90s or so things changed very rapidly for the tribe. The people are healthier, the infrastructure is better and the population seems to be growing and overall happier (again...observations). What changed? Casinos. Our local tribe went from being very poor with seemingly little voice in local politics to "very important" to the local community. They have not only improved their own lives but also invest heavily in improving the region and have a focus on things like the lake and natural preservation. Again...from my general observations...
- brendoelfrendo 5y agoEconomically, casinos are a mixed bag for tribes. The ones that have been successful are super successful, but many other tribes operating casinos find themselves spending money on gaming that doesn’t pay off. It makes a certain intuitive sense; a lot of reservation land was, unfortunately, poor land in the middle of nowhere. Building a casino in the middle of nowhere won’t do you any good, so the tribes that profit are the ones with proximity to major population centers (see: Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun in CT; Winstar and Chocktaw in OK). It ends up coming down to luck and location more than anything else.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoI also can only speak to the tribes near me, but casinos only help if the reservation is near people. The poorest US counties are mostly either places with a prison or a reservation, the lowest median household income is Buffalo County in South Dakota with a casino of it's own.
- clsec 5y agoA couple of very large settlements [1], one being $452M, can go a long way to helping a poor community. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeur_d%27Alene_people#Environmental_suit,_land_claim_and_compensation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeur_d%27Alene_people#Environ...
- devwastaken 5y agoBe aware that census data is contextual to it's location. During the 2020 census we struggled heavily to census reservations and the rural country in general. Sometimes receiving threats of violence. We were asked many times to census various areas and simply could not do so for our safety because the number of anti government types has made it dangerous. Imo the main statistic, number of people, is the most accurate. All the rest are optional inputs and may not accurately reflect the true data due to the nature of collection.
- robbedpeter 5y agoThreats of violence occur because in the last ten years, many reservations have suffered a silent invasion by Mexican drug cartels. This has occurred in reservations all through the US, along Northern and Southern borders, creating large areas of lawlessness, at horrific human cost. It's not anti-government types so much as Mexican cartels and their types. If they talk to any outsiders, it can mean death and torture. Tribal police are strong in some places, but they're laughably insufficient in most cases, and there's an intersection of tribal pride, corruption, distrust of feds, and being overwhelmed that have given cartels a large number of virtually untouchable strongholds. There are places law enforcement cannot and will not go inside the borders of the US under the control of drug cartel strongmen. Human trafficking, murder, disappearances, drug trade, murder for hire, money laundering, and so on are being hidden under the veil of tribal sovereignty. The number of girls and young women that go missing is an atrocity, but the ones that go unreported are worse. These people are owed more. I'm not sure what the solution is that preserves native sovereignty and roots out the cartels, but the US is headed for a dramatic escalation of violence inside the borders. I am as against the war on drugs as anyone, and support blanket legalization as a necessary tool in neutering cartels and their influence. The trouble now is that cartels with militarized presence and sophisticated logistics will need US military intervention within our borders, and on tribal lands, and that's a politically untenable proposition. So it festers. People disappear. Outsiders see a superficial veneer of anti-government sentiment but the problems are much deeper and more destructive for native cultures. The longer it goes on, the higher the eventual cost will be. It's shocking that this isn't better known, but maybe Americans don't want introspection of truly scary things.
- dpeck 5y agoThis should come as a surprise to no one. Many white people like to identify as some amount of some racial or cultural group that isn’t white. Whether that’s talking about a grandmother that was “full blooded” $tribe/nation or leaning into Irish/German/Italian/etc ancestry. As white culture has become more and more generic due to mass media and little regional variation, many people are going to try to find something unique or “exotic” about themselves to make them stand out. It’s peacocking, both inwardly and outwardly focused. You see this especially strong in social and mating contexts (read: bars). There’s a lot of problems with this, but primary is that it puts the Native American experience as one that exists only in the past. Not the reality of the lives lives by people belong to the various tribes and nations today.
- yeetaccount4 5y agoIt’s because being straight, white and not trans means you’re an evil oppressor to a lot of younger people these days. They at least have to claim bisexuality when they aren’t, or loudly proclaim their brown ethnicity when they’re in fact over 7/8 European and could claim a noble title and European citizenship. It’s almost like people are judging everyone by the color of their skin instead of the content of their character.
- Ourgon 5y ago> As white culture has become more and more generic due to mass media and little regional variation, many people are going to try to find something unique or “exotic” about themselves to make them stand out. It’s peacocking, both inwardly and outwardly focused. You see this especially strong in social and mating contexts (read: bars). That is not the reason some white people try very hard to find some non-white person in their family tree and are willing to go so far as to make one up if they can't find one. Some do it in an attempt to be able to claim to be 'not one of those white folks' when confronted with anti-white narratives. Others - Elisabeth Warren [1], Rachel Dolezal [2], Tracy Castro-Gill [3] and many, many more - do it to try to get a piece of the positive discrimination/positive action/affirmative action pie which is set aside for members of specific identity groups. Others do it to have a way out when confronted with the all too common claims of "white supremacy" or "white privilege" or similar racialised slurs. That white people voluntarily take upon them claims of non-whiteness should give lie to claims of oppression of the minorities they claim to be part of unless all those who take up (often faked) minority identities happen to be masochists. [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-elizabeth-warren-native-ancestry_n_5bc5f8d9e4b055bc947a6e13 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-elizabeth-warren-nati... [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44256760 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44256760 [4] https://www.dailywire.com/news/meet-the-seattle-schools-woke-indoctrination-czar-who-married-a-child-molester https://www.dailywire.com/news/meet-the-seattle-schools-woke...
- cherrycherry98 5y agoI'm in favor of removing the race question from the census. It proliferates collectivist thinking (my people/kin vs others, based on bloodlines or appearance) over individualism. It is also used as a justification for implementing discriminatory policies, ironically in the name of fighting discrimination.
- ryneandal 5y agoNo. Especially for the Native American population. It's important for us to have statistics on those with Native blood, especially since the government was entitled to legally kidnap children from family regardless of home stability as recently as 1978.
- hn_go_brrrrr 5y agoDid they actually use that power that recently, or was this one of those "200 year old law" situations?
- ryneandal 5y agoForced boarding schools were extensively used as forced assimilation up until 1978, when the Indian Child Welfare Act [1] was passed. These boarding schools were notoriously strict, often abusive[2], and often church-run [3]. This led to an unknown number of deaths in the Native children population, many of whom are only just now being discovered and identified [4,5]. Unfortunately, the ICWA has been under attack via the courts recently even though the United States has a history of abuse and maltreatment of Native American children [6]. 1: https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/diverse-populations/americanindian/icwa/ https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/diverse-popul... 2: https://web.archive.org/web/20121206131053/http://www.amnestyusa.org/node/87342 https://web.archive.org/web/20121206131053/http://www.amnest... 3: https://web.archive.org/web/20050829051045/http://sacbee.com/static/archive/news/projects/native/day2_main.html https://web.archive.org/web/20050829051045/http://sacbee.com... 4: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/us/native-american-boarding-school-deaths-nebraska.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/us/native-american-boardi... 5: https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadian-graves-of-indigenous-children-found-with-help-from-oral-histories-11626384990?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadian-graves-of-indigenous-c... 6: https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_federal-judges-reconsider-indian-child-welfare-law/6183105.html https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_federal-judges-reconsider-indi... I highly recommend Cecily Hilleary's relevant articles on VOA if you're unfamiliar of the grotesque and disturbing history of forced assimilation and cultural genocide through America's Indian Boarding schools. They are excellent primers on the topic, highlighting yet another example of the US's embarrassing treatment of America's indigenous population. Examples of Cecily Hilleary's great investigative work on boarding schools and maltreatment of Native children: - https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_oneida-nation-boarding-school-students-return-home-century-later/6171229.html https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_oneida-nation-boarding-school-... - https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_native-americans-feds-own-americas-indian-school-history/6207014.html https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_native-americans-feds-own-amer... - https://www.voanews.com/a/indian-boarding-schools-outings-apprendiceships-or-indentured-servitude/6300451.html https://www.voanews.com/a/indian-boarding-schools-outings-ap... - https://www.voanews.com/a/assessing-blame-for-deaths-of-indian-boarding-school-students/6307594.html https://www.voanews.com/a/assessing-blame-for-deaths-of-indi... - https://www.voanews.com/a/scholars-work-to-untangle-the-complex-legacy-of-federal-indian-boarding-schools-/6329370.html https://www.voanews.com/a/scholars-work-to-untangle-the-comp... Some recommended reading if you're interested in learning more about Indian boarding schools: - https://www.amazon.com/Pipestone-Life-Indian-Boarding-School/dp/080614114X/ https://www.amazon.com/Pipestone-Life-Indian-Boarding-School... - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0700629602/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_mrai_2_dp https://www.amazon.com/dp/0700629602/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_mrai_2... - https://www.amazon.com/Middle-Five-Indian-Schoolboys-Omaha/dp/0803279019/ https://www.amazon.com/Middle-Five-Indian-Schoolboys-Omaha/d... - https://www.amazon.com/Stringing-Rosaries-Unforgivable-Contemporary-Indigenous/dp/1946163104 https://www.amazon.com/Stringing-Rosaries-Unforgivable-Conte... - https://www.amazon.com/Boarding-School-Blues-Educational-Experiences/dp/0803294638/ https://www.amazon.com/Boarding-School-Blues-Educational-Exp... - https://www.amazon.com/They-Called-Me-Uncivilized-Everyday/dp/1440162786 https://www.amazon.com/They-Called-Me-Uncivilized-Everyday/d...
- tacosbane 5y agoThe Elizabeth Warren effect.
- Ostrogodsky 5y ago85% growth in 10 years vs 10% for the general population. The Liz Warren effect.
- disco_nap 5y agoThe focus on this article is demographics, but the most important things to tribes are our language, culture, and tribal sovereignty. We are not a box on a census form and never will be. We are pre-Constitutional sovereigns, recognized by our treaties with the U.S. and Canada. States like Michigan might force our teachers get "foreign language certificates," despite the fact that Michigan is a word from our language[0], but my children speak their language and our culture are pillars of strength and stability in our family. Blood quanta, problems of race in America, what to call us -- that's not our focus. [0]https://www.interlochenpublicradio.org/michigan-education/2017-04-12/meet-the-only-michigan-teacher-endorsed-to-teach-anishinaabemowin https://www.interlochenpublicradio.org/michigan-education/20...
- onemoresoop 5y agoThat is a data point that is measurable at least and some useful information can be inferred from , though you may have a point that it is incomplete.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- oversocialized 5y agoThey keep lowering blood requirements. Lots of mexicans claiming to be parts of tribes when in reality they genocided he california natives. Federal government wants to dilute the blood line to eventually take the reservation lands.
- ForgotMyPwOops 5y agoBlood requirements are set by the tribe, not the federal government Source: am member of a federally recognized tribe that only requires one parent be a member for their children to be a member, much like US citizenship, so unless that changes my children for 100 generations will be 100% Native-American just as they will be 100% American