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> I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices I tried several alternatives in terms of smart TV (Apple TV, Google/Android TV, Fire TV), and I could not

> I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices I tried several alternatives in terms of smart TV (Apple TV, Google/Android TV, Fire TV), and I could not find any platform that let me use all of the apps that I needed without resorting to casting from my phone. And in some cases there was a long process to follow in order to get the device to do what I needed[1], which involved activating developer mode, sideloading apps etc. In the end, I bought a wireless keyboard/touchpad combo and built a HTPC, reusing old components that I removed from my gaming PC after upgrading it over the years. I installed Ubuntu on it and never looked back. [1] For example not having the home screen being made of mostly ads, or having a simple web browser installed on the device

givinguflac 5y ago
Genuinely curious, did you feel anything was missing from Apple TV besides a web browser? I feel it’s perfect for our uses but I always like to know if I’m missing something. Personally I don’t like web browsing on TV but AirPlay fills that gap when it’s needed.
- mastazi 5y ago
  I have to say that Apple TV sucked less than the alternatives but it's also the most inflexible in the sense that it's harder to "jailbreak", so for example if Apple decides that the home page will now be filled with ads rather than icons, I won't be able to do anything about it whereas in Google TV and Fire TV you can sideload an unofficial launcher if you want. Compare this with my current solution where I can just change OS or desktop environment if I feel like it. Another aspect is the fact that smart TV apps are sometimes not as good as their desktop counterparts. For example the YouTube app on most smart TV platforms does not support viewing show notes or comments. So every time the person in the video says "link in the notes below"... you are missing out on that link. Another example: I like watching martial arts, both the UFC web app and the FloGrappling web app have additional features that are not found in their smart-tv-app counterparts. Another big one for me, is the fact that in a desktop environment I have better multitasking and I can use browser tabs. For example if I find a Youtube channel I'm interested in, and I see a couple videos that I would like to watch, I just open them in a new tab. On a smart TV you would have to add them to watch later, then go to your library and find them, it's just not as immediate. Another point is gaming, I am recycling old computer parts that I removed from my gaming PC when doing upgrades, these are relatively old parts but still pretty good, so you can run triple-A desktop games with pretty decent quality, whereas the type of games available for download on smart TVs are mostly just ports of mobile games. I also installed RetroPie which is quite fun! Then there is hardware upgradeability. Recently I was thinking to add a faster CPU, and then the CPU that is now in the HTPC will go into my NAS since the one I have in the NAS is quite slow. You can't do any of that with a smart TV dongle, all the parts are soldered to the main board :-) One more thing I like is that it's easier to watch content using alternative clients, for example I watch YouTube videos using the FreeTube app, on Smart TV platforms you might be able to find some alternative clients but the choice is more limited. EDIT - rephrased some parts as they were not clear
  - josteink 5y ago
    So basically what you’re saying is that you want your “smart” TV experience to be just like a desktop PC experience. That’s fair, if that’s what you want and if that works for you. For most users however that would make the TV impossible to use with a regular, simple remote and thus be a major downgrade in user experience. Basically what it seems like (to me at least) is that people who buy “smart” devices don’t want them to be smart in terms of having advanced capabilities. Rather they want the devices to be smart enough to do the right things in a simplified UI, allowing the user to get the same things done, but with less effort. Basically smart devices are smart to allow the user to be lazy, dumb or both ;)
    - mastazi 5y ago
      > So basically what you’re saying is that you want your “smart” TV experience to be just like a desktop PC experience. Yeah another way to say it is that I want my smart devices to be general computing devices. For example I've build my own NAS instead of getting something like a Synology or a WD NAS, I'm in the process of building a router/firewall using OPNsense etc. I spend more in the short term but less in the long term due to the ability to reuse old parts etc. > Basically smart devices are smart to allow the user to be lazy, dumb or both ;) ahah yeah I see your point.
garyfirestorm 5y ago
Have you tried nvidia shield?
- Tyr42 5y ago
  Did you see the update that shows ads for steaming services you don't have on the top 1/3 of the screen due to an update?
  - garyfirestorm 5y ago
    Yes I did. It doesn’t bother me much. And I’m sure you could sideload something to get rid of that Home Screen altogether.
fragmede 5y ago
> without resorting to casting from my phone I am curious, why is that undesirable for you? I'm assuming there's something more than lack of individual app support for casting.
- gknoy 5y ago
  It's fairly inconvenient to have to use your phone as the remote, especially when you want to do something on your phone (or watch something else) while the kids watch netflix. We have disney+, and my TV apparently thinks we're not subscribed. My phone does, though, and I can cast from that. Yes, we can watch Encanto again, but it's very jarring when the normal interactions with the TV don't work.
  - Tor3 5y ago
    >It's fairly inconvenient to have to use your phone as the remote, especially when you want to do something on your phone (or watch something else) while the kids watch netflix. But when you cast from an application with integrated chromecast support (as e.g. Netflix) then the phone is free to use as you wish while the kids are watching. I do this all the time. I start the cast, then use my normal TV remote to pause, for volume control etc. You don't need the actual app for most things and you can use the phone/tablet for other things (I have to find translations for my wife, for example, while watching).
    - mastazi 5y ago
      Let's put it another way: having to cast from the phone to the TV is like using a normal screw that requires a screwdriver. A TV where you don't need the phone is like one of those tool-less thumbscrews[1]. They are convenient because in order to use one tool (the screw) you don't have to reach for another tool (the screwdriver). [1] http://www.baaqii.com/promanage/productimage/Ewhole/A/A678-1.jpg http://www.baaqii.com/promanage/productimage/Ewhole/A/A678-1...
    - gknoy 5y ago
      I've been able to stream Netflix, Disney+, and Prime to my TV via chromecast, and it's a weird mix. The main detriment is that for all the apps, when streaming from my phone, people watching the TV can't use the TV+Remote to do things like pick a different episode, or pick a different show -- so this makes it already a crap alternative unless I want to be involved in all the future viewing decisions. One nice thing about the phone apps is that you can search for a different thing to watch _while_ currently watching something. Fast-forward/rewind also tends to be a little more intuitive with adraggable progress bar, except small-scale rewinds (1-2 minutes) of a movie is _harder_ because a few pixels is difficult to select cleanly. I will say though that Prime is _freaking fantastic_ when streamed from my phone, better even than using the native TV interface. The Prime phone app lets you navigate _by scene_ in a show (e.g. Bosch) which my tv app won't let me do. I wish Netflix and D+ would/could copy that, specifically. I wish it didn't have spoilers in scene descriptions, but being able to say, "Hey go back to the start of the council of Elrond" is really nice, rather than having to use +/- 30 second increments.
eulers_secret 5y ago
I tried to do the same thing, but the 4K+HDR streaming story is fully broken/DRM'd to hell on PC. You simply cannot stream 4K+HDR in most (all?) services on a modern PC (my HTPC is also a gaming PC... so Nvidia graphics in my case). I went with Apple TV + Plex (along with D+/NFLX/Peacock/HBO Max/Hulu/AppleTV/Prime/Cable... but I still can't find everything I want)
- mastazi 5y ago
  I think the main problem is HDR right? Because I don't think that 4K per se would be an issue? To be fair my TV is not 4K so I haven't tried 4K streaming... Even on my gaming PC I don't have 4K because I preferred to spend on a higher refresh rate 1440p rather than a 4K panel so I really don't have a direct experience.
  - Macha 5y ago
    The problem is that providers will refuse to serve you that content in most cases. Some will let you have content if you use their windows store app on a sufficiently modern PC to support the CPU assisted DRM, at least until there's an exploit for that and then they'll discontinue sending that content to your system and you need to buy a new one.
ttty 5y ago
I have an LG TV for 2 years and it never showed any ads. Everything works great so far. Where do you see ads
- mastazi 5y ago
  LG uses WebOS which is not among the ones I tried. In some of the other systems the ads generally cover the upper half of the home screen, then you have the app icons below that. This screenshot shows the home screen in Google TV and gives you an idea of what I'm talking about https://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Chromecast-with-Google-TV-Review_4415.jpg https://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Chromecast-... And this screenshot is the home screen in Fire TV: https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Firetv-os-update-header-1024x576.jpg https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Firet...

givinguflac 5y ago

Genuinely curious, did you feel anything was missing from Apple TV besides a web browser? I feel it’s perfect for our uses but I always like to know if I’m missing something. Personally I don’t like web browsing on TV but AirPlay fills that gap when it’s needed.

mastazi 5y ago
I have to say that Apple TV sucked less than the alternatives but it's also the most inflexible in the sense that it's harder to "jailbreak", so for example if Apple decides that the home page will now be filled with ads rather than icons, I won't be able to do anything about it whereas in Google TV and Fire TV you can sideload an unofficial launcher if you want. Compare this with my current solution where I can just change OS or desktop environment if I feel like it. Another aspect is the fact that smart TV apps are sometimes not as good as their desktop counterparts. For example the YouTube app on most smart TV platforms does not support viewing show notes or comments. So every time the person in the video says "link in the notes below"... you are missing out on that link. Another example: I like watching martial arts, both the UFC web app and the FloGrappling web app have additional features that are not found in their smart-tv-app counterparts. Another big one for me, is the fact that in a desktop environment I have better multitasking and I can use browser tabs. For example if I find a Youtube channel I'm interested in, and I see a couple videos that I would like to watch, I just open them in a new tab. On a smart TV you would have to add them to watch later, then go to your library and find them, it's just not as immediate. Another point is gaming, I am recycling old computer parts that I removed from my gaming PC when doing upgrades, these are relatively old parts but still pretty good, so you can run triple-A desktop games with pretty decent quality, whereas the type of games available for download on smart TVs are mostly just ports of mobile games. I also installed RetroPie which is quite fun! Then there is hardware upgradeability. Recently I was thinking to add a faster CPU, and then the CPU that is now in the HTPC will go into my NAS since the one I have in the NAS is quite slow. You can't do any of that with a smart TV dongle, all the parts are soldered to the main board :-) One more thing I like is that it's easier to watch content using alternative clients, for example I watch YouTube videos using the FreeTube app, on Smart TV platforms you might be able to find some alternative clients but the choice is more limited. EDIT - rephrased some parts as they were not clear
- josteink 5y ago
  So basically what you’re saying is that you want your “smart” TV experience to be just like a desktop PC experience. That’s fair, if that’s what you want and if that works for you. For most users however that would make the TV impossible to use with a regular, simple remote and thus be a major downgrade in user experience. Basically what it seems like (to me at least) is that people who buy “smart” devices don’t want them to be smart in terms of having advanced capabilities. Rather they want the devices to be smart enough to do the right things in a simplified UI, allowing the user to get the same things done, but with less effort. Basically smart devices are smart to allow the user to be lazy, dumb or both ;)
  - mastazi 5y ago
    > So basically what you’re saying is that you want your “smart” TV experience to be just like a desktop PC experience. Yeah another way to say it is that I want my smart devices to be general computing devices. For example I've build my own NAS instead of getting something like a Synology or a WD NAS, I'm in the process of building a router/firewall using OPNsense etc. I spend more in the short term but less in the long term due to the ability to reuse old parts etc. > Basically smart devices are smart to allow the user to be lazy, dumb or both ;) ahah yeah I see your point.

garyfirestorm 5y ago

Have you tried nvidia shield?

Tyr42 5y ago
Did you see the update that shows ads for steaming services you don't have on the top 1/3 of the screen due to an update?
- garyfirestorm 5y ago
  Yes I did. It doesn’t bother me much. And I’m sure you could sideload something to get rid of that Home Screen altogether.

fragmede 5y ago

> without resorting to casting from my phone I am curious, why is that undesirable for you? I'm assuming there's something more than lack of individual app support for casting.

gknoy 5y ago
It's fairly inconvenient to have to use your phone as the remote, especially when you want to do something on your phone (or watch something else) while the kids watch netflix. We have disney+, and my TV apparently thinks we're not subscribed. My phone does, though, and I can cast from that. Yes, we can watch Encanto again, but it's very jarring when the normal interactions with the TV don't work.
- Tor3 5y ago
  >It's fairly inconvenient to have to use your phone as the remote, especially when you want to do something on your phone (or watch something else) while the kids watch netflix. But when you cast from an application with integrated chromecast support (as e.g. Netflix) then the phone is free to use as you wish while the kids are watching. I do this all the time. I start the cast, then use my normal TV remote to pause, for volume control etc. You don't need the actual app for most things and you can use the phone/tablet for other things (I have to find translations for my wife, for example, while watching).
  - mastazi 5y ago
    Let's put it another way: having to cast from the phone to the TV is like using a normal screw that requires a screwdriver. A TV where you don't need the phone is like one of those tool-less thumbscrews[1]. They are convenient because in order to use one tool (the screw) you don't have to reach for another tool (the screwdriver). [1] http://www.baaqii.com/promanage/productimage/Ewhole/A/A678-1.jpg http://www.baaqii.com/promanage/productimage/Ewhole/A/A678-1...
  - gknoy 5y ago
    I've been able to stream Netflix, Disney+, and Prime to my TV via chromecast, and it's a weird mix. The main detriment is that for all the apps, when streaming from my phone, people watching the TV can't use the TV+Remote to do things like pick a different episode, or pick a different show -- so this makes it already a crap alternative unless I want to be involved in all the future viewing decisions. One nice thing about the phone apps is that you can search for a different thing to watch _while_ currently watching something. Fast-forward/rewind also tends to be a little more intuitive with adraggable progress bar, except small-scale rewinds (1-2 minutes) of a movie is _harder_ because a few pixels is difficult to select cleanly. I will say though that Prime is _freaking fantastic_ when streamed from my phone, better even than using the native TV interface. The Prime phone app lets you navigate _by scene_ in a show (e.g. Bosch) which my tv app won't let me do. I wish Netflix and D+ would/could copy that, specifically. I wish it didn't have spoilers in scene descriptions, but being able to say, "Hey go back to the start of the council of Elrond" is really nice, rather than having to use +/- 30 second increments.

eulers_secret 5y ago

I tried to do the same thing, but the 4K+HDR streaming story is fully broken/DRM'd to hell on PC. You simply cannot stream 4K+HDR in most (all?) services on a modern PC (my HTPC is also a gaming PC... so Nvidia graphics in my case). I went with Apple TV + Plex (along with D+/NFLX/Peacock/HBO Max/Hulu/AppleTV/Prime/Cable... but I still can't find everything I want)

mastazi 5y ago
I think the main problem is HDR right? Because I don't think that 4K per se would be an issue? To be fair my TV is not 4K so I haven't tried 4K streaming... Even on my gaming PC I don't have 4K because I preferred to spend on a higher refresh rate 1440p rather than a 4K panel so I really don't have a direct experience.
- Macha 5y ago
  The problem is that providers will refuse to serve you that content in most cases. Some will let you have content if you use their windows store app on a sufficiently modern PC to support the CPU assisted DRM, at least until there's an exploit for that and then they'll discontinue sending that content to your system and you need to buy a new one.

ttty 5y ago

I have an LG TV for 2 years and it never showed any ads. Everything works great so far. Where do you see ads

mastazi 5y ago
LG uses WebOS which is not among the ones I tried. In some of the other systems the ads generally cover the upper half of the home screen, then you have the app icons below that. This screenshot shows the home screen in Google TV and gives you an idea of what I'm talking about https://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Chromecast-with-Google-TV-Review_4415.jpg https://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Chromecast-... And this screenshot is the home screen in Fire TV: https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Firetv-os-update-header-1024x576.jpg https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Firet...