6 ms·

How did it get this bad?

dehrmann 5y ago
Lots of people want to work in the video game industry, so they'll put up with low pay, long hours, and apparently sexual harassment for a really long time.
- sydthrowaway 5y ago
  Except there’s an overlap in low level perf tuning in AAA game engines and improving cloud workloads. These folks could easily get a job at FAANG
  - da39a3ee 5y ago
    Both your sentences are true. So, what do we conclude from them though? It doesn’t change the core fact that the cost of skilled labor is lower for games companies than it is for FAANG, right?
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    Working a at FAANG is not as attractive to most when you don’t know about the issues in the video games industry. There is a reason why FAANG companies pay well and video games companies don’t have to. I met zero people who told me they dreamed about working in a FAANG since childhood.
    - krasin 5y ago
      >I met zero people who told me they dreamed about working in a FAANG since childhood. Hi, nice to meet you: I dreamed about working in Microsoft since I was 12. Ended up in a different FAANG, but anyway.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - VRay 5y ago
        haha, yeah, the only reason working in FAANG wasn't my dream is that I never could have dreamed of reaching such lofty heights Now that I'm here, it's sort of lame, but it's still a lot better than any other jobs I've done..
      - 29athrowaway 5y ago
        FAANG = Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google. Microsoft is not included. So technically you did not dream of working at a FAANG since childhood.
        sabas123 5y ago
        FAANG needs to die as an acronym.
    - saagarjha 5y ago
      I know a bunch, but I also grew up in the Bay Area…
      - sydthrowaway 5y ago
        Possibly the first generation of kids whose Dads worked at FAANG
    - pm90 5y ago
      Microsoft owns Xbox and a multitude of game studios…
      - bryan_w 5y ago
        Most insightful comment of the day. :)
        dehrmann 5y ago
        (Between those two comments, Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard)
    - gotbeans 5y ago
      Definitely far from 0 people, I'm half embarrassed to admit I wanted to join cisco when I was not even in collage.
      - sydthrowaway 5y ago
        Try IBM.
    - cercatrova 5y ago
      Hello. I used to want to work at a company like Google when I was younger.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - pbalau 5y ago
    There is no mention in the article about these people being engineers. These people were fired "to address allegations of sexual harassment and other misconduct". These are the bad guys. And finally, there isn't that much overlap between "perf tuning in AAA game engines and improving cloud workloads".
- nradov 5y ago
  Unfortunately, the situation is similar throughout most of the entertainment and sports industry. Employees want to work in the field so they put up with abuse and unprofessional behavior that wouldn't be tolerated in more staid industries.
- xwdv 5y ago
  What is the nature of the sexual harassment? Everyday it seems the bar gets lower and lower.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    WSJ claims that at least one allegation of rape was made.
    - xwdv 5y ago
      Actual rape?
- Mirioron 5y ago
  It's also possible that in a creative industry like that you can't be as controlling when it comes to employee behavior. The people coming up with crazy new ideas are probably more eccentric than average. It might not be as easy to walk the line of separating the good eccentric behavior from the bad. An incident here, an incident there can pile up over the years. My impression is that it's not a very uncommon problem in the entertainment industry.
john567 5y ago
Blizzard was never a privately held company or not in the sense that founders had real autonomy. I believe Michael Morhaime had a lot to do with why Blizzard could do what it did. I remember reading in interviews that he defended the soon(tm) mindset and steered the owners away from chasing quarterly reports. I also believe that Chris Metzen was a key figure in upholding a geeky and fun culture. I was genuinely impressed by Blizzard in my youth and dreamed of working there one day. But something happened after the success of WoW the company grew quickly and with that came some bad people and after the merger, Bobby Kotick could exert his influence. Blizzard stopped being a geeky place for geeks and culture eroded slowly. I also believe that the original core Blizzard people were struggling with leaving the company in the hands of the next generation. They wanted to believe that the people they had in the company would carry the torch and embody the same ideals. It didn't happen. The saddest day was when Metzen announced his departure. It was felt by many as a shock. He was a beacon of hope and light but I also think the was struggling with some personal family matters. He now felt the work was no longer in his best interest and left. A lot of Blizzard veterans followed suit. I don't think a single one of the original people still work there, with the exception of Samwise Didier. Blizzard still has a very strong art department. I believe Michael Morhaime did what he could but ultimately realized that he didn't have the autonomy to fix it. The problem had grown to big. Maybe they were naive? I mean, these people struck gold and built one of worlds most renown gaming brands and the worlds most successful MMO to date. On the flip side. All the key people have moved on to found new gaming ventures and I believe this time they've had the capital to fund it themselves. Hoping they stay independent and build great experiences for us to enjoy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kodemager 5y ago
  Metzen Knew about the toxic “bro-culture” while he was in one of the management positions directly above some of what turned out to be the worst sexual offenders, and did nothing about it, for which he apologised on his own Twitter post scandal. Michael Morhaime similarly was the head of Blizzard doing the worst of the sexual misconduct and people don’t things like “cube crawls”. I’ve worked in big enterprise, I know how easy it is to turn the blind eye to things (maybe not drunk employees litterally crawling around to harass women) but still, but I fear that the toxic culture may be as old as Blizard west itself, and that it likely only grew into the sexual misconduct that it did following the growth of World of Warcraft and the huge influx of new hires (including a lot of in-office women which had been rare up till then).

Lots of people want to work in the video game industry, so they'll put up with low pay, long hours, and apparently sexual harassment for a really long time.

sydthrowaway 5y ago
Except there’s an overlap in low level perf tuning in AAA game engines and improving cloud workloads. These folks could easily get a job at FAANG
- da39a3ee 5y ago
  Both your sentences are true. So, what do we conclude from them though? It doesn’t change the core fact that the cost of skilled labor is lower for games companies than it is for FAANG, right?
- speedgoose 5y ago
  Working a at FAANG is not as attractive to most when you don’t know about the issues in the video games industry. There is a reason why FAANG companies pay well and video games companies don’t have to. I met zero people who told me they dreamed about working in a FAANG since childhood.
  - krasin 5y ago
    >I met zero people who told me they dreamed about working in a FAANG since childhood. Hi, nice to meet you: I dreamed about working in Microsoft since I was 12. Ended up in a different FAANG, but anyway.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - VRay 5y ago
      haha, yeah, the only reason working in FAANG wasn't my dream is that I never could have dreamed of reaching such lofty heights Now that I'm here, it's sort of lame, but it's still a lot better than any other jobs I've done..
    - 29athrowaway 5y ago
      FAANG = Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google. Microsoft is not included. So technically you did not dream of working at a FAANG since childhood.
      - sabas123 5y ago
        FAANG needs to die as an acronym.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    I know a bunch, but I also grew up in the Bay Area…
    - sydthrowaway 5y ago
      Possibly the first generation of kids whose Dads worked at FAANG
  - pm90 5y ago
    Microsoft owns Xbox and a multitude of game studios…
    - bryan_w 5y ago
      Most insightful comment of the day. :)
      - dehrmann 5y ago
        (Between those two comments, Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard)
  - gotbeans 5y ago
    Definitely far from 0 people, I'm half embarrassed to admit I wanted to join cisco when I was not even in collage.
    - sydthrowaway 5y ago
      Try IBM.
  - cercatrova 5y ago
    Hello. I used to want to work at a company like Google when I was younger.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pbalau 5y ago
  There is no mention in the article about these people being engineers. These people were fired "to address allegations of sexual harassment and other misconduct". These are the bad guys. And finally, there isn't that much overlap between "perf tuning in AAA game engines and improving cloud workloads".
nradov 5y ago
Unfortunately, the situation is similar throughout most of the entertainment and sports industry. Employees want to work in the field so they put up with abuse and unprofessional behavior that wouldn't be tolerated in more staid industries.
xwdv 5y ago
What is the nature of the sexual harassment? Everyday it seems the bar gets lower and lower.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- aidenn0 5y ago
  WSJ claims that at least one allegation of rape was made.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Actual rape?
Mirioron 5y ago
It's also possible that in a creative industry like that you can't be as controlling when it comes to employee behavior. The people coming up with crazy new ideas are probably more eccentric than average. It might not be as easy to walk the line of separating the good eccentric behavior from the bad. An incident here, an incident there can pile up over the years. My impression is that it's not a very uncommon problem in the entertainment industry.

john567 5y ago

Blizzard was never a privately held company or not in the sense that founders had real autonomy. I believe Michael Morhaime had a lot to do with why Blizzard could do what it did. I remember reading in interviews that he defended the soon(tm) mindset and steered the owners away from chasing quarterly reports. I also believe that Chris Metzen was a key figure in upholding a geeky and fun culture. I was genuinely impressed by Blizzard in my youth and dreamed of working there one day. But something happened after the success of WoW the company grew quickly and with that came some bad people and after the merger, Bobby Kotick could exert his influence. Blizzard stopped being a geeky place for geeks and culture eroded slowly. I also believe that the original core Blizzard people were struggling with leaving the company in the hands of the next generation. They wanted to believe that the people they had in the company would carry the torch and embody the same ideals. It didn't happen. The saddest day was when Metzen announced his departure. It was felt by many as a shock. He was a beacon of hope and light but I also think the was struggling with some personal family matters. He now felt the work was no longer in his best interest and left. A lot of Blizzard veterans followed suit. I don't think a single one of the original people still work there, with the exception of Samwise Didier. Blizzard still has a very strong art department. I believe Michael Morhaime did what he could but ultimately realized that he didn't have the autonomy to fix it. The problem had grown to big. Maybe they were naive? I mean, these people struck gold and built one of worlds most renown gaming brands and the worlds most successful MMO to date. On the flip side. All the key people have moved on to found new gaming ventures and I believe this time they've had the capital to fund it themselves. Hoping they stay independent and build great experiences for us to enjoy.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kodemager 5y ago
Metzen Knew about the toxic “bro-culture” while he was in one of the management positions directly above some of what turned out to be the worst sexual offenders, and did nothing about it, for which he apologised on his own Twitter post scandal. Michael Morhaime similarly was the head of Blizzard doing the worst of the sexual misconduct and people don’t things like “cube crawls”. I’ve worked in big enterprise, I know how easy it is to turn the blind eye to things (maybe not drunk employees litterally crawling around to harass women) but still, but I fear that the toxic culture may be as old as Blizard west itself, and that it likely only grew into the sexual misconduct that it did following the growth of World of Warcraft and the huge influx of new hires (including a lot of in-office women which had been rare up till then).