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This is a short term advantage that is quickly evaporating. There are crypto credit cards now that allow you to achieve the same effect. Assuming this advanta

This is a short term advantage that is quickly evaporating. There are crypto credit cards now that allow you to achieve the same effect. Assuming this advantage disappears, are there any other bull cases for $USD?

squeaky-clean 5y ago
I don't want a currency with a bull case. That means it discourages spending it in favor of holding it. I want a currency with an extremely slow bear case. Also my value of USD hasn't dropped 30% in the last month.
- felipeko 5y ago
  It is a good thing to be encouraged to saving instead of spending. No one needs incentive to spend. You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there.
  - 01acheru 5y ago
    > You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there. That’s some pretty fanta-dreamy-economics. How can it possibly be true for everybody? Money from heaven?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    There is no modern economic argument to favor saving over spending. What you're saying runs counter to pretty much all economic theory from any ideological camp you could think of.
    - fleddr 5y ago
      Economic theory has run this world into the ground in just a single human lifetime. A system that maximizes consumption is insane.
      - 01acheru 5y ago
        Do you mean that if we had some renaissance banks during the 19xx until 2022, gold coins instead of our modern currencies, no stock exchanges, no financial whatever and maybe all retro economical entities you can think of… would we be in a different position? You cannot blame the theory, you cannot blame the system… we have a saying in Italy: opportunity makes the thief. Blame the people, not abstract entities.
      - Daishiman 5y ago
        I'm not seeing how a deflationary currency even addresses this argument.
        fleddr 5y ago
        I wasn't try to. I'm saying "modern economic theory" isn't really a position of strength to reason from. It's not like economists have done a good job at anything. Endless unsustainable growth, a disaster of a financial system, every natural incentive is completely upside down and inequality keeps rising. Is a deflationary system better or a solution? I don't know.
        Daishiman 5y ago
        To my knowledge, no large society in the past two centuries, regardless of economic systems, has been a particularly good steward of natural resources. You're going to have to do better than that. Deflationary currencies have been an abject disaster in all fronts, and there is nothing particularly contentious about them from even the most contrarian of positions.
    - eric_cc 5y ago
      Just because an argument is not popular does not indicate it is false.
  - CaptainZapp 5y ago
    > Having a currency which gains in value will take you there. Until it doesn't. As a matter of fact crypto "currencies" are a rotten medium for saving due to their volatility. Sure, they may go up in value. But then that's pure speculation, certainly not saving.
    - eric_cc 5y ago
      You can’t avoid being a speculator. Any currency or asset you hold is your speculative position. You may believe that one position is more speculative than another. But fiat currencies can go into hyperinflation and become worthless, for example.
- eric_cc 5y ago
  BTC didn’t drop in value did it? 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC. The fed manipulating the USD and affecting the trading pair of USD/BTC is probably what you’re referring to.
  - 01acheru 5y ago
    BTC value dropped against all fiat currencies after mining rigs shutting down in Kazakistan and a little bit after the Kosovo news, so yeah BTC value dropped. In a longer span: BTC is down 33% against EUR in the last 3 months. > 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC. That’s tautological, so devoid of any information.
  - chii 5y ago
    > 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC. tautologically true, but irrelevant. That's like saying gold costs 1 ounce per ounce, and that price has never changed in the history of its existence. Current economic pricing happens with USD for most activities, and thus you need to be pricing BTC under USD. Until the day people would easily accept BTC directly (and hold it instead of converting it into USD), you cannot price BTC in BTC.
mostly_harmless 5y ago
I, and everyone else, has to pay taxes in USD. That will never replaced.

squeaky-clean 5y ago

I don't want a currency with a bull case. That means it discourages spending it in favor of holding it. I want a currency with an extremely slow bear case. Also my value of USD hasn't dropped 30% in the last month.

felipeko 5y ago
It is a good thing to be encouraged to saving instead of spending. No one needs incentive to spend. You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there.
- 01acheru 5y ago
  > You will spend if you have plenty to spend. Having a currency which gains in value will take you there. That’s some pretty fanta-dreamy-economics. How can it possibly be true for everybody? Money from heaven?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Daishiman 5y ago
  There is no modern economic argument to favor saving over spending. What you're saying runs counter to pretty much all economic theory from any ideological camp you could think of.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    Economic theory has run this world into the ground in just a single human lifetime. A system that maximizes consumption is insane.
    - 01acheru 5y ago
      Do you mean that if we had some renaissance banks during the 19xx until 2022, gold coins instead of our modern currencies, no stock exchanges, no financial whatever and maybe all retro economical entities you can think of… would we be in a different position? You cannot blame the theory, you cannot blame the system… we have a saying in Italy: opportunity makes the thief. Blame the people, not abstract entities.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      I'm not seeing how a deflationary currency even addresses this argument.
      - fleddr 5y ago
        I wasn't try to. I'm saying "modern economic theory" isn't really a position of strength to reason from. It's not like economists have done a good job at anything. Endless unsustainable growth, a disaster of a financial system, every natural incentive is completely upside down and inequality keeps rising. Is a deflationary system better or a solution? I don't know.
        Daishiman 5y ago
        To my knowledge, no large society in the past two centuries, regardless of economic systems, has been a particularly good steward of natural resources. You're going to have to do better than that. Deflationary currencies have been an abject disaster in all fronts, and there is nothing particularly contentious about them from even the most contrarian of positions.
  - eric_cc 5y ago
    Just because an argument is not popular does not indicate it is false.
- CaptainZapp 5y ago
  > Having a currency which gains in value will take you there. Until it doesn't. As a matter of fact crypto "currencies" are a rotten medium for saving due to their volatility. Sure, they may go up in value. But then that's pure speculation, certainly not saving.
  - eric_cc 5y ago
    You can’t avoid being a speculator. Any currency or asset you hold is your speculative position. You may believe that one position is more speculative than another. But fiat currencies can go into hyperinflation and become worthless, for example.
eric_cc 5y ago
BTC didn’t drop in value did it? 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC. The fed manipulating the USD and affecting the trading pair of USD/BTC is probably what you’re referring to.
- 01acheru 5y ago
  BTC value dropped against all fiat currencies after mining rigs shutting down in Kazakistan and a little bit after the Kosovo news, so yeah BTC value dropped. In a longer span: BTC is down 33% against EUR in the last 3 months. > 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC. That’s tautological, so devoid of any information.
- chii 5y ago
  > 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC. tautologically true, but irrelevant. That's like saying gold costs 1 ounce per ounce, and that price has never changed in the history of its existence. Current economic pricing happens with USD for most activities, and thus you need to be pricing BTC under USD. Until the day people would easily accept BTC directly (and hold it instead of converting it into USD), you cannot price BTC in BTC.

mostly_harmless 5y ago

I, and everyone else, has to pay taxes in USD. That will never replaced.