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Maybe a bit low for someone this experienced, but actually its just above the median salary for a developer in Paris. Developer salaries in Europe are not the
by a_humean 5y ago
Maybe a bit low for someone this experienced, but actually its just above the median salary for a developer in Paris.
Developer salaries in Europe are not the astronomic salaries you see in the US in the major cities. Probably the highest paying in Europe is London in the UK, and even then its still less than 50% of what developers in SF make at probably around 75k USD per year/6-7k USD per month in London.
- laurentb 5y agoworth baring in mind that there's a lot of extra paid by the employer on top of the "gross" salary someone gets in Europe (especially in France) that someone in the US would have to cover by himself (hence why i't typical to see double that amount for someone in the US).
- a_humean 5y agoI'm pretty sure once you cost out everything from taxes, health insurance, housing, etc.. whether business or personal costs an equivalent developer in say Paris will have much less disposable income and overall assets than one in SF.
- maccard 5y agoI've posted this reply numerous times here but a junior dev in San Francisco on 120k, after paying taxes and rent has more left over than a mid level engineer in the UK makes in gross pay.
- cosmodisk 5y agoIn quite a few European countries it's really not that much on top it. UK is the primary example of it.
- jimnotgym 5y agoEmployers national insurance is basically 13.8% on top of salary in the Uk up top some limit.
- dan-robertson 5y agoSee graph here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax Though rates probably depend on income so maybe the graph only gives a rough idea (e.g. top taxpayer rates probably higher in Europe and higher rates may kick in earlier in Europe.)
- mkurz 5y agoReally? Can't speak for France, but it's definity low, specially for a senior dev. USD 56 470,69 equals EUR 49 465,78 as of today. You still need to pay taxes and (compulsory) social insurance from that. IMHO this is low, in some (western) european countries that amount may is junior dev entry salary IMHO. But someone responsible for a project that big could easily start at EUR 90 000,- or more (~USD 100 000,-). At least this is my experience. Experienced senior devs in German speaking countries I know, which know what they are talking about, don't consider to work for less than EUR 80 000,- gross per year, for some this is the lowest base line. Just recently talked to a friend about that who works for a middle sized (~200 people), not very well known software company in Germany.
- Aeolun 5y agoI can’t find anything in normal EU companies that would be over €80k for IC positions. Where do you find these magic opportunities?
- newaccount74 5y agoProbably depends on the industry. If you're a wordpress programmer at an ad agency there's no way you are making €80k. But if you're a senior embedded engineer at a big company like Bosch or Siemens, €80k sounds plausible.
- Macha 5y agoIreland. * https://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=developer%20%E2%82%AC80%2C000&l=Dublin%2C%20County%20Dublin&vjk=d8476be89afa235a https://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=developer%20%E2%82%AC80%2C000&l... * https://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=developer%20%E2%82%AC80%2C000&l=Dublin%2C%20County%20Dublin&vjk=bd8a58c7a918945e&advn=2674352704711207 https://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=developer%20%E2%82%AC80%2C000&l... * https://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=developer%20%E2%82%AC80%2C000&l=Dublin%2C%20County%20Dublin&vjk=ab8f40281993fd10&advn=1592771984614379 https://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=developer%20%E2%82%AC80%2C000&l... Just the first three I found with a salary >= €80k attached to the job listing
- Tarsul 5y agoyes, but France is cheaper/less well paid than Germany (my guesstimation would be 20-30% less). Most countries are, e.g. Spain, Italy, and of course eastern Europe. Actually, 80k€ is VERY good for developers in Germany, you are not paid these sums easily, but yes if you're good (and willing to change employers and good in interviews) you will get there, that's true.
- pembrook 5y agoFunny enough, I just posted a comment about this the other day, how basically every SF/NYC company that has gone full remote could cut their employee costs by nearly 2-3X by switching their dev team to a European time zone. And this is including all the extra taxes involved with having employees there. And I'm not talking about having to hire in Romania or something (where you could save 4-8X or more). You could hire the top 5% of talent in expensive cities like London and still cut your payroll costs by 2-3X
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoYou can't save that much by hiring in Romania. The differences between developer compensation in europe don't follow cost of living differences, an average software engineer in Poland is likely in a better position when compared to an average Pole than an average software engineer in France vs an average Frenchman.
- stef25 5y agoMaybe 10 years ago I hung out with a Java developer from Hungary for a while, he worked on stuff for Lufthansa. Hopefully I'm not remembering this wrong, but I think he told me his salary was like 1000EUR / month after tax (maybe even less) and that he was still able to afford a large house for his wife & kids and everything he wanted.
- lsferreira42 5y agoThere are many companies hiring Brazilians for the same reason, since 1 USD is 5,56 brazilian real and 1 eur is 6,30 brazilian real, it's dirty cheap to hire brazilians on these conditions!
- snovv_crash 5y agoHighest paying in Europe is probably Zurich, not London. Salaries are comparable to sub-million-population US cities, which considering Zurich is also sub-million seems like it's actually pretty competitive with the US.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoNot really, you're competing against a ton of people from different countries if you want to work in Zurich. Switzerland has a ton of foreign people working there.
- snovv_crash 5y agoThis doesn't mean dev salaries are lower. Swiss immigration rules are actually quite strict, and between Facebook/Google/Apple/MicrosoftReseach there is a heavy upwards pull on salaries.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoI didn't mean that salaries are lower, I meant you need to put it a lot more effort to get them.
- barrkel 5y agoZurich and Switzerland generally is also much more expensive. Accommodation is hard to find, rents are 50+% over somewhere like London, groceries 2x or more the price, especially beef, and is often low quality. Imported food is harder to find and restaurants are pretty dire. Good wine is easy enough to find though, and the outdoor scenery is pretty. I cannot wait until end of Covid and try and spend a large fraction of our weekends outside this place.
- snovv_crash 5y agoFrom what I've seen, rent is comparable to London when you take things like location and access to the city center into account. Agreed that restaurants and food are expensive. Selection is smaller than somewhere like London, but with a population 10x lower that's to be expected. Size-wise Zurich is more like Birmingham. If you take local cuisine differences into account I don't think it's that different. Crime, taxes and pollution are also much lower. It really depends on your priorities.