5 ms·

Apparently something similar happened when X-Rays started becoming routine. Doctors X-raying kids saw evidence that so many of them had a history of broken bone

by lmkg 5y ago

Apparently something similar happened when X-Rays started becoming routine. Doctors X-raying kids saw evidence that so many of them had a history of broken bones from abuse. It took a while for the medical community as a whole to acknowledge that widespread child abuse was actually occurring, and longer to wrangle with the idea that it was something that was within their mandate as doctors to do something about. https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/me33bo/did_x_rays_reveal_a_hidden_epidemic_of_child_abuse/gshrz1h/ https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/me33bo/did_x_ray... (Yes it's reddit, but it's Ask Historians. Responses tend to be high-quality because their moderation policy embraces Sturgeon's Law.)

s1artibartfast 5y ago
There is a similar social issue waiting to blow up regarding genetic screening. Estimates are that 10-15% of children are from infidelity
- User23 5y ago
  I believe that's the rate for people who seek out a paternity test, which is to say are already suspicious. The overall population nonpaternity rate is about 3%[1]. As an aside, obstetricians often notice nonpaternity because of the child having an impossible blood type for the putative father. The ones I've spoken to prefer to stay silent when they notice it. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19320216/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19320216/
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Thank you for the correction.
- onphonenow 5y ago
  Parental testing should be mandatory at birth perhaps for these issues. Or at least if someone is going to go claim child support.
  - resoluteteeth 5y ago
    If it was going to be mandatory it would be much better to do it before birth using amniotic fluid. Waiting for the child to be born and then suddenly telling one parent that it's not their biological child isn't a great idea.
    - bluecalm 5y ago
      Well, it's always the potential father that gets the news not one of the parents. Maybe it's not ideal to tell them once the child is born but it's still better than not telling them at all.
    - onphonenow 5y ago
      That's an interesting idea, but a fair number of families don't want to do amniotic fluid testing. Paternity and maternity issues are pretty low incidence issues, but is VERY rough if it pops up with a 4 year old in the mix. If you've got wrong dad in the picture, at birth is a good time to chase down the right father! Get him paying child support if needed. Non-bio dad could still decide to stay around if desired - but transparency / honesty on the table.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      It can be done with a noninvasive blood test of the mother. I am a firm proponent of mandatory testing so fathers aren’t financially responsible for children that aren’t theirs (without their knowledge and consent). Historically, if a father later determines they're not the biological parent, family court will still stick them with child support until the child is 18 (or even older, sometimes requiring college support). https://americanpregnancy.org/paternity-tests/non-invasive-prenatal-paternity-test/ https://americanpregnancy.org/paternity-tests/non-invasive-p...
      - onphonenow 5y ago
        Wow, NIPP testing is very cool - didn't know about that.
      - mbreese 5y ago
- astura 5y ago
  >Estimates are that 10-15% of children are from infidelity Extremely Misleading, from the studies I've seen these high numbers are percentage of people seeking paternity tests, not from the general public as a whole. If you're seeking a paternity test you already are suspecting infidelity.
  - felix_n 5y ago
    That's a very astute observation, one that I've personally seen overlooked several times by people using that data point to support their argument. That kind of statistical begging-the-question annoys me to no end. The number I've heard from people who quote it is all over the map, sometimes it's 10%, or 20%, even as high as 50%, but I've not once seen a citation of any of them. So I'm inclined to treat that statistic as BS unless proven otherwise. But as you say, even a legit number is probably misleading due to the circumstances surrounding the data gathering.
    - astura 5y ago
      >but I've not once seen a citation of any of them I have, which is why I brought it up. Any time people throw out such absurdly high numbers and provide "evidence" there always is "...seeking paternity testing..." in the methodology. Always. It's absurd how people could overlook this, it's like if you counted the times Maury Povich says "you are not the father" and used it to say anything about the general population.
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  I'm surprised genetic testing isn't always performed at birth
SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
Dealing with abused children is unfortunately common in pediatric medicine and is a huge reason for burnout in the field, because a doctor will know about neglect happening that’s not “bad enough” to call someone about, or if they do, they know nothing will happen because even the services to get kids out of neglectful situations are themselves rife with abuse.
- cjaro 5y ago
  The veterinary field is the same way. I saw a TON of abused pets & animals when I was doing vet tech work. I ultimately decided not to pursue vet school.
  - the_mar 5y ago
    did you really just compare the two
    - Zerverus 5y ago
      No they did not. They made an observation about a related field. That said, animal abuse is correlated with human abuse
    - imtringued 5y ago
      We treat animals worse than humans. Even pet animals are often sent to an overcrowded shelter where animals are killed according to the "first in first dead" principle. If you want to know what cruelties humans are truly capable off I suggest you look at how we treat animals. As long as we declare a certain subgroup of humans "inhuman" we will treat them the same way.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  Don't they have mandatory reporting requirements? I know they exist in my jurisdiction.
  - notch656a 5y ago
KarlKemp 5y ago
Good if they actually went where the data led them. Sigmund Freud famously changed his mind at some point: he had so many young female patients with stories of sexual abuse that he decided it must be a rather common fetish among young girls to make up these stories. He just couldn't believe that a third or so of Vienna's upper crust would rape their daughters.
- phkahler 5y ago
  >> He just couldn't believe that a third or so of Vienna's upper crust would rape their daughters. Well that's why they were his patients. Duh. OTOH he wrote a lot about his weird ideas around sex, much of it projection - he apparently was the one with erotic feeling toward his mother. The only things Freud wrote that I agree with turns out were first theorized by someone else.

by lmkg 5y ago

s1artibartfast 5y ago

There is a similar social issue waiting to blow up regarding genetic screening. Estimates are that 10-15% of children are from infidelity

User23 5y ago
I believe that's the rate for people who seek out a paternity test, which is to say are already suspicious. The overall population nonpaternity rate is about 3%[1]. As an aside, obstetricians often notice nonpaternity because of the child having an impossible blood type for the putative father. The ones I've spoken to prefer to stay silent when they notice it. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19320216/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19320216/
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Thank you for the correction.
onphonenow 5y ago
Parental testing should be mandatory at birth perhaps for these issues. Or at least if someone is going to go claim child support.
- resoluteteeth 5y ago
  If it was going to be mandatory it would be much better to do it before birth using amniotic fluid. Waiting for the child to be born and then suddenly telling one parent that it's not their biological child isn't a great idea.
  - bluecalm 5y ago
    Well, it's always the potential father that gets the news not one of the parents. Maybe it's not ideal to tell them once the child is born but it's still better than not telling them at all.
  - onphonenow 5y ago
    That's an interesting idea, but a fair number of families don't want to do amniotic fluid testing. Paternity and maternity issues are pretty low incidence issues, but is VERY rough if it pops up with a 4 year old in the mix. If you've got wrong dad in the picture, at birth is a good time to chase down the right father! Get him paying child support if needed. Non-bio dad could still decide to stay around if desired - but transparency / honesty on the table.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It can be done with a noninvasive blood test of the mother. I am a firm proponent of mandatory testing so fathers aren’t financially responsible for children that aren’t theirs (without their knowledge and consent). Historically, if a father later determines they're not the biological parent, family court will still stick them with child support until the child is 18 (or even older, sometimes requiring college support). https://americanpregnancy.org/paternity-tests/non-invasive-prenatal-paternity-test/ https://americanpregnancy.org/paternity-tests/non-invasive-p...
    - onphonenow 5y ago
      Wow, NIPP testing is very cool - didn't know about that.
    - mbreese 5y ago
astura 5y ago
>Estimates are that 10-15% of children are from infidelity Extremely Misleading, from the studies I've seen these high numbers are percentage of people seeking paternity tests, not from the general public as a whole. If you're seeking a paternity test you already are suspecting infidelity.
- felix_n 5y ago
  That's a very astute observation, one that I've personally seen overlooked several times by people using that data point to support their argument. That kind of statistical begging-the-question annoys me to no end. The number I've heard from people who quote it is all over the map, sometimes it's 10%, or 20%, even as high as 50%, but I've not once seen a citation of any of them. So I'm inclined to treat that statistic as BS unless proven otherwise. But as you say, even a legit number is probably misleading due to the circumstances surrounding the data gathering.
  - astura 5y ago
    >but I've not once seen a citation of any of them I have, which is why I brought it up. Any time people throw out such absurdly high numbers and provide "evidence" there always is "...seeking paternity testing..." in the methodology. Always. It's absurd how people could overlook this, it's like if you counted the times Maury Povich says "you are not the father" and used it to say anything about the general population.
throwaway6734 5y ago
I'm surprised genetic testing isn't always performed at birth

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

Dealing with abused children is unfortunately common in pediatric medicine and is a huge reason for burnout in the field, because a doctor will know about neglect happening that’s not “bad enough” to call someone about, or if they do, they know nothing will happen because even the services to get kids out of neglectful situations are themselves rife with abuse.

cjaro 5y ago
The veterinary field is the same way. I saw a TON of abused pets & animals when I was doing vet tech work. I ultimately decided not to pursue vet school.
- the_mar 5y ago
  did you really just compare the two
  - Zerverus 5y ago
    No they did not. They made an observation about a related field. That said, animal abuse is correlated with human abuse
  - imtringued 5y ago
    We treat animals worse than humans. Even pet animals are often sent to an overcrowded shelter where animals are killed according to the "first in first dead" principle. If you want to know what cruelties humans are truly capable off I suggest you look at how we treat animals. As long as we declare a certain subgroup of humans "inhuman" we will treat them the same way.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
Don't they have mandatory reporting requirements? I know they exist in my jurisdiction.
- notch656a 5y ago

KarlKemp 5y ago

Good if they actually went where the data led them. Sigmund Freud famously changed his mind at some point: he had so many young female patients with stories of sexual abuse that he decided it must be a rather common fetish among young girls to make up these stories. He just couldn't believe that a third or so of Vienna's upper crust would rape their daughters.

phkahler 5y ago
>> He just couldn't believe that a third or so of Vienna's upper crust would rape their daughters. Well that's why they were his patients. Duh. OTOH he wrote a lot about his weird ideas around sex, much of it projection - he apparently was the one with erotic feeling toward his mother. The only things Freud wrote that I agree with turns out were first theorized by someone else.