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In December my lease renewal offer included a 35% rent increase. I attempted to bargain them down to a lower increase, but the leasing office never even got ba

In December my lease renewal offer included a 35% rent increase. I attempted to bargain them down to a lower increase, but the leasing office never even got back to me. At least according to the subreddit for my area, most apartment buildings here seem to be trying to increase rent 20-40%.

bowmessage 5y ago
Crystal City (based on your comment history)? 35% does seem steep, but it doesn't seem fair to compare against last year's rent when it was likely heavily discounted due to COVID.
- LUmBULtERA 5y ago
  Haha yes -- I was trying to be vaguer in another comment but apparently I already said this a while back :).
- alexk307 5y ago
  Crystal City is filled with landlords and building owners that feel like they are entitled to price increases ever since Amazon decided to build their HQ2 there. I was there before and after the announcement and the real estate prices doubled based on pure speculation that Amazon employees would come through flush with cash, wanting their 700k+ one bedroom apartments.
- willis936 5y ago
  This is the first I've heard of any rent going down anywhere at any time.
- francisofascii 5y ago
  My friend who lives in Chinatown area says his condo value is still down from Pre-Covid. So he thinks city prices in general are down, not up like the rest of the U.S.
- javert 5y ago
  Hah, they say the crooked printed money goes first to those sucking the government teat, so this makes sense...
Ericson2314 5y ago
How much did they go down or not grow the last two years?
- LUmBULtERA 5y ago
  My rent didn't go down.
  - eckmLJE 5y ago
    The question is really -- what was the rent for your unit before the pandemic began and the rental market in many cities became depressed. It's difficult to answer because plenty of people had just started a lease before the pandemic began, and had to endure that for a year as others may have received great deals on rent.
    - LUmBULtERA 5y ago
      It's true. We were expecting a decent bump in the rent offer, but not 35%.
xadhominemx 5y ago
Which city?
- LUmBULtERA 5y ago
  Northern Virginia area.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
You know what makes my blood boil? My apartment complex is currently leasing me a 700 sq.ft. one bedroom for $940 a month. I decided to move because the rent is being raised to a whopping $1,524 a month before other fees. Parking used to be free but now they are charging a flat $10 for an unreserved stall, $30 for a reserved one. Oh, and they added "Valet Waste" where we are forced to pay $30 a month for someone to pick up trash at our doorway. There are no doubt other fee increases I'm not aware of yet. What's worse is that the complex is full of unoccupied and newly vacated units. You can tell because the lights are kept on 24/7 and they installed new LED bulbs. This makes me wonder why they would treat current tenants so badly by raising rents so much when so many of those units that are being vacated remain empty?!? Surely it would be better to be less aggressive and have a higher occupancy, no?
- sokoloff 5y ago
  If they raised the rent successfully on 2/3rds of the units to just over 3/2’s of its old value, then it seems like they could afford to keep 1/3 of units vacant and available for new tenants who are willing to pay that higher rent. (They’re no worse off on a cashflow basis and they have vacant inventory that represents possible upside.)
  - izend 5y ago
    This strategy only works because vacancy rates are low and interest rates are low.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I don’t think the second condition is even needed. As long as you can raise the rent by over 50%, you can keep 1/3 of units vacant and be better off than last year; that’s probably only possibly if overall vacancies are low.
      - mistrial9 5y ago
        companies that profit well in high inflation environments are studied in some business schools. Part of the equation you describe is the (assumed) constant demand, and the ability to adjust frequently compared to life of the asset.
justinator 5y ago
Rental management companies are accepting offers for leases that are hundreds of dollars/month more than asking price and in some cases expecting you to make that sort of offer, which is insane.
mattwad 5y ago
This happened to us as well, but I know it happened all over our city. pretty standard for everyone who got a new lease during COVID times. I don't attribute any of it to inflation. Luckily, our new rent is still much lower than what they're charging new tenants, though.
sheeshkebab 5y ago
You gotta know how to negotiate with these crystal city buildings - mainly by just moving from one to another yearly. Sometimes just changing apt in the same building with the new lease is cheaper than staying in current one.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  This is very true. My rent is pretty much the same as it was in 2010 because I’ve done this.
- tomjakubowski 5y ago
  In this situation (identical apartment, different floor, 25% lower rent than my renewal offer), I asked my building manager to match the rent in my offer and they did. I made a simple argument that it would be wasteful not to (I spend money for movers, they spend for cleaners). I feel lucky now.
- LUmBULtERA 5y ago
  Yup, I did decide to move.
superfrank 5y ago
> I attempted to bargain them down to a lower increase, but the leasing office never even got back to me. Do you live in a large complex owned by a big company? In my experience large companies don't even attempt to negotiate. I've tried in the past at two different complex and never got a response until I walked my ass to the front desk and then was told "we don't do that". My buddy tried that same thing at his complex right at the height of covid when everyone was moving out of the city and still got no response. Two months later they sent him an email asking why he left and what they could do to get him back. I think big companies send any attempts at negotiation straight to the trash.
- LUmBULtERA 5y ago
  Yup. I actually was successful in negotiating lower rent increases for many years in the same building. About 3 years ago they stopped budging.
- lapsedacademic 5y ago
  Because they're making money off of the property, not the service. Accepting lower rents impacts valuations.
  - ffwacom 5y ago
    This is incredibly enlightening for me.
    - lapsedacademic 5y ago
      Stuff you learn when you start interacting with the petite investment property class... Contact your city councilperson and state rep/senator. Public policy doesn't need to punish this sort of behavior, but we should at least stop rewarding property owners who do this sort of thing.
  - Grakel 5y ago
    Yep whether it's empty or full a high rent building sells for more.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Rents will continue to increase as long as people continue to pay the increased rent. A 35% increase is far above average, but if people are paying it and it’s not enough to get people to move out, then it’s really just market rate. On the other hand, if it’s high enough that people start moving out and the new vacancies are hard to fill, those rents will come down very quickly. One of the strangest things about rent increases in my area is that everybody complains about them, but few people ever bother moving out. The even stranger thing is that most of the people I knew who went remote chose to move to more expensive cities, because that’s where they decided they wanted to live. I suspect rents will continue to rise sharply in hot areas until people are actually willing to vote with their feet.
- friedturkey 5y ago
  > On the other hand, if it’s high enough that people start moving out and the new vacancies are hard to fill, those rents will come down very quickly. Unfortunately, this is unlikely. We’re in an era where building owners would rather let their properties sit empty for years than consider even a modest reduction in price.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  > One of the strangest things about rent increases in my area is that everybody complains about them, but few people ever bother moving out. Why would they move out when everyone is increasing rents? It's a net neutral result. If you're upset that rent is going from $1200 to $1500, then voting with your wallet and moving somewhere else doesn't work when rent is $1500 everywhere. Apartment complexes don't compete on price. They don't have to, since every basically needs a place to live, and so they will charge as much as they possibly can. If minimum wage goes up $2, you can bet the landlords will be salivating over how they'll be able to increase rents by $300/month and capture the money, and renters will be stuck paying it because the alternative is to go homeless.
  - topkai22 5y ago
    Uh, rental properties absolutely compete in price. That is in fact why prices are so relatively consistent- no sane tenant on the market is going to pick a more expensive apartment when the complex a couple blocks away costs less, so they end up about the same. That’s different then your assertion that a minimum wage increase would be disproportionately taken up by housing- that’s probably true, but that’s not due to a lack of competition on price, it’s due to more money chasing the same supply. And it’s quite possible that a minimum wage increase could see new entrants chasing rising prices on the low end side- perhaps enabling more people to rent houses as a multi family household rather than apartments. What we are seeing is an underlying demand shock (the effects of stay at home orders and WFH causing people to want to consume more housing on per person basis, combined with more money from changed consumption patterns and government programs ) that combined with a supply issue (historically low housing construction after the 2008 recession combined with global supply and labor issues) that has created a situation of historic demand chasing historically little supply inventory. If we finally see sufficient housing construction then you’ll see prices stabilize and possibly even come down, because those new units compete with the existing units.
keyboardCowBoy 5y ago
Same issue here, paying $1200 for for a 600sq ft rental and new owners, made zero improvements and raising to $1500 because some complex down the road is charging that. a 25 percent increase for me, I would buy but I don't want to hassle with a home bidding and don't plan on living in this state much longer.
thebean11 5y ago
Depending on where you are, your lease might automatically convert to month to month. This exact situation happened to a friend of mine in NYC, they didn't sign the lease and didn't move out, and are just paying the old rent. They are legally month to month and are entitled to 60 days notice if the landlord wants them out or raise the rent (landlord hasn't said anything yet). A lease renewal != notice of a rent increase on a month to month tenant.
acomjean 5y ago
Homes aren’t Just housing anymore. There are investment funds that scan listing and will tender cash offers within a couple hours of real estate being posted on the MLS listing service. Then rent those homes out at a substantial profit https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2021/investors-rental-foreclosure/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2021/inv...

bowmessage 5y ago

Crystal City (based on your comment history)? 35% does seem steep, but it doesn't seem fair to compare against last year's rent when it was likely heavily discounted due to COVID.

LUmBULtERA 5y ago
Haha yes -- I was trying to be vaguer in another comment but apparently I already said this a while back :).
alexk307 5y ago
Crystal City is filled with landlords and building owners that feel like they are entitled to price increases ever since Amazon decided to build their HQ2 there. I was there before and after the announcement and the real estate prices doubled based on pure speculation that Amazon employees would come through flush with cash, wanting their 700k+ one bedroom apartments.
willis936 5y ago
This is the first I've heard of any rent going down anywhere at any time.
francisofascii 5y ago
My friend who lives in Chinatown area says his condo value is still down from Pre-Covid. So he thinks city prices in general are down, not up like the rest of the U.S.
javert 5y ago
Hah, they say the crooked printed money goes first to those sucking the government teat, so this makes sense...

Ericson2314 5y ago

How much did they go down or not grow the last two years?

LUmBULtERA 5y ago
My rent didn't go down.
- eckmLJE 5y ago
  The question is really -- what was the rent for your unit before the pandemic began and the rental market in many cities became depressed. It's difficult to answer because plenty of people had just started a lease before the pandemic began, and had to endure that for a year as others may have received great deals on rent.
  - LUmBULtERA 5y ago
    It's true. We were expecting a decent bump in the rent offer, but not 35%.

xadhominemx 5y ago

Which city?

LUmBULtERA 5y ago
Northern Virginia area.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

You know what makes my blood boil? My apartment complex is currently leasing me a 700 sq.ft. one bedroom for $940 a month. I decided to move because the rent is being raised to a whopping $1,524 a month before other fees. Parking used to be free but now they are charging a flat $10 for an unreserved stall, $30 for a reserved one. Oh, and they added "Valet Waste" where we are forced to pay $30 a month for someone to pick up trash at our doorway. There are no doubt other fee increases I'm not aware of yet. What's worse is that the complex is full of unoccupied and newly vacated units. You can tell because the lights are kept on 24/7 and they installed new LED bulbs. This makes me wonder why they would treat current tenants so badly by raising rents so much when so many of those units that are being vacated remain empty?!? Surely it would be better to be less aggressive and have a higher occupancy, no?

sokoloff 5y ago
If they raised the rent successfully on 2/3rds of the units to just over 3/2’s of its old value, then it seems like they could afford to keep 1/3 of units vacant and available for new tenants who are willing to pay that higher rent. (They’re no worse off on a cashflow basis and they have vacant inventory that represents possible upside.)
- izend 5y ago
  This strategy only works because vacancy rates are low and interest rates are low.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I don’t think the second condition is even needed. As long as you can raise the rent by over 50%, you can keep 1/3 of units vacant and be better off than last year; that’s probably only possibly if overall vacancies are low.
    - mistrial9 5y ago
      companies that profit well in high inflation environments are studied in some business schools. Part of the equation you describe is the (assumed) constant demand, and the ability to adjust frequently compared to life of the asset.

justinator 5y ago

Rental management companies are accepting offers for leases that are hundreds of dollars/month more than asking price and in some cases expecting you to make that sort of offer, which is insane.

mattwad 5y ago

This happened to us as well, but I know it happened all over our city. pretty standard for everyone who got a new lease during COVID times. I don't attribute any of it to inflation. Luckily, our new rent is still much lower than what they're charging new tenants, though.

sheeshkebab 5y ago

You gotta know how to negotiate with these crystal city buildings - mainly by just moving from one to another yearly. Sometimes just changing apt in the same building with the new lease is cheaper than staying in current one.

ModernMech 5y ago
This is very true. My rent is pretty much the same as it was in 2010 because I’ve done this.
tomjakubowski 5y ago
In this situation (identical apartment, different floor, 25% lower rent than my renewal offer), I asked my building manager to match the rent in my offer and they did. I made a simple argument that it would be wasteful not to (I spend money for movers, they spend for cleaners). I feel lucky now.
LUmBULtERA 5y ago
Yup, I did decide to move.

superfrank 5y ago

> I attempted to bargain them down to a lower increase, but the leasing office never even got back to me. Do you live in a large complex owned by a big company? In my experience large companies don't even attempt to negotiate. I've tried in the past at two different complex and never got a response until I walked my ass to the front desk and then was told "we don't do that". My buddy tried that same thing at his complex right at the height of covid when everyone was moving out of the city and still got no response. Two months later they sent him an email asking why he left and what they could do to get him back. I think big companies send any attempts at negotiation straight to the trash.

LUmBULtERA 5y ago
Yup. I actually was successful in negotiating lower rent increases for many years in the same building. About 3 years ago they stopped budging.
lapsedacademic 5y ago
Because they're making money off of the property, not the service. Accepting lower rents impacts valuations.
- ffwacom 5y ago
  This is incredibly enlightening for me.
  - lapsedacademic 5y ago
    Stuff you learn when you start interacting with the petite investment property class... Contact your city councilperson and state rep/senator. Public policy doesn't need to punish this sort of behavior, but we should at least stop rewarding property owners who do this sort of thing.
- Grakel 5y ago
  Yep whether it's empty or full a high rent building sells for more.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Rents will continue to increase as long as people continue to pay the increased rent. A 35% increase is far above average, but if people are paying it and it’s not enough to get people to move out, then it’s really just market rate. On the other hand, if it’s high enough that people start moving out and the new vacancies are hard to fill, those rents will come down very quickly. One of the strangest things about rent increases in my area is that everybody complains about them, but few people ever bother moving out. The even stranger thing is that most of the people I knew who went remote chose to move to more expensive cities, because that’s where they decided they wanted to live. I suspect rents will continue to rise sharply in hot areas until people are actually willing to vote with their feet.

friedturkey 5y ago
> On the other hand, if it’s high enough that people start moving out and the new vacancies are hard to fill, those rents will come down very quickly. Unfortunately, this is unlikely. We’re in an era where building owners would rather let their properties sit empty for years than consider even a modest reduction in price.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
> One of the strangest things about rent increases in my area is that everybody complains about them, but few people ever bother moving out. Why would they move out when everyone is increasing rents? It's a net neutral result. If you're upset that rent is going from $1200 to $1500, then voting with your wallet and moving somewhere else doesn't work when rent is $1500 everywhere. Apartment complexes don't compete on price. They don't have to, since every basically needs a place to live, and so they will charge as much as they possibly can. If minimum wage goes up $2, you can bet the landlords will be salivating over how they'll be able to increase rents by $300/month and capture the money, and renters will be stuck paying it because the alternative is to go homeless.
- topkai22 5y ago
  Uh, rental properties absolutely compete in price. That is in fact why prices are so relatively consistent- no sane tenant on the market is going to pick a more expensive apartment when the complex a couple blocks away costs less, so they end up about the same. That’s different then your assertion that a minimum wage increase would be disproportionately taken up by housing- that’s probably true, but that’s not due to a lack of competition on price, it’s due to more money chasing the same supply. And it’s quite possible that a minimum wage increase could see new entrants chasing rising prices on the low end side- perhaps enabling more people to rent houses as a multi family household rather than apartments. What we are seeing is an underlying demand shock (the effects of stay at home orders and WFH causing people to want to consume more housing on per person basis, combined with more money from changed consumption patterns and government programs ) that combined with a supply issue (historically low housing construction after the 2008 recession combined with global supply and labor issues) that has created a situation of historic demand chasing historically little supply inventory. If we finally see sufficient housing construction then you’ll see prices stabilize and possibly even come down, because those new units compete with the existing units.

keyboardCowBoy 5y ago

Same issue here, paying $1200 for for a 600sq ft rental and new owners, made zero improvements and raising to $1500 because some complex down the road is charging that. a 25 percent increase for me, I would buy but I don't want to hassle with a home bidding and don't plan on living in this state much longer.

thebean11 5y ago

Depending on where you are, your lease might automatically convert to month to month. This exact situation happened to a friend of mine in NYC, they didn't sign the lease and didn't move out, and are just paying the old rent. They are legally month to month and are entitled to 60 days notice if the landlord wants them out or raise the rent (landlord hasn't said anything yet). A lease renewal != notice of a rent increase on a month to month tenant.

acomjean 5y ago

Homes aren’t Just housing anymore. There are investment funds that scan listing and will tender cash offers within a couple hours of real estate being posted on the MLS listing service. Then rent those homes out at a substantial profit https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2021/investors-rental-foreclosure/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2021/inv...