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> Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol This is supposed to be a technical community so can we stop with this lazy abuse of termi

> Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol This is supposed to be a technical community so can we stop with this lazy abuse of terminology. Apple has not hijacked the SMS protocol in any way, shape or form. They've simply created an app that supports two protocols: SMS and iMessage with a UI that abstracts the difference.

rahimnathwani 5y ago
If I want to use the iOS messaging app to send an SMS message (not an iMessage) to another iOS user, how do I do that?
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  I think you can disable the IMessage service. It's buried somewhere in the global Settings tool.
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    That choice is global (affecting all messages, and all contacts). At the time I send a message to an iOS user (who has iMessage enabled), there's no way (AFAICT) for me to choose whether that message is sent via SMS or via iMessage. (Perhaps if I turn off my data connections, iOS will eventually send the message via SMS?)
    - amrangaye 5y ago
      What is your use case here? Why would you want to send an SMS to another user who also has iMessage? Or do you mean you think that should just be a capability of any messaging service?
      - frosted-flakes 5y ago
        Why not? Maybe someone doesn't want to reveal what phone they're using at the moment, or maybe they just prefer plain-ol SMS.
      - lurker_primo 5y ago
        I don't have an iphone, but I saw a similar issue with Signal. My wife and I use Signal to message each other and we have Signal as sms handler on our android phones. For some reason, she had to use a dumb phone with no Signal app for a couple of weeks. After a few days, she was suspicious that she is not getting some sms'es. I wanted to test if this was true, but I couldn't. Any message I sent to her number through Signal would be sent as a Signal message which wouldn't be delivered and I couldn't figure out how to send as sms. I had to change my sms app to another app, and then send using that app. Now, the new sms app couldn't read all older sms because Signal removes all sms from android sms database into Signal. So, now I use separate apps for Signal and sms.
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    That choice is global (affecting all messages, and all contacts).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dev_tty01 5y ago
  In the Messages app preferences, you turn off the big switch that enables iMessage. No need to deregister or anything. Just flip the switch. The deregister process mentioned here is intended for leaving the iOS ecosystem so that messages will find you properly.
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    So, any time I want to send an SMS message to an iOS user, I need to turn off iMessage globally (affecting all message to/from all contacts). This isn't a practical option. I think that's why GGP's comment ("Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol") is justified. If you want to use any iMessage functionality, you surrender your ability to send SMS to iOS users.
    - thirdsun 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure that the number of users actually wanting to send an SMS rather than an iMessage to their fellow iOS-equipped friends is very, very small. I can't even think of a fitting use case. It surely doesn't warrant a per-message-toggle and a global setting seems reasonable in my opinion.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
aendruk 5y ago
I’d say the problem is that Apple reserves this as a privilege for themselves. On Android you can set Signal as your SMS handler and use it as a similar dual client. I miss that feature when using iOS.
partiallypro 5y ago
They have created an environment that takes an SMS protocol that users think is standard across all cellular devices, and is apart of their monthly phone plan, and instead uses their own protocol (but only for their own devices.) That is hijacking. What other word is there? The average user has no idea that their SMS is actually being rerouted by Apple into their own system, they just know the bubble color is different. Some often assume that because their desktop iMessage doesn't always recieve messages from Android phones that the Android system is broken, when in fact it's not. So you are rerouting an open standard to your own platform, and you are giving users a false impression on reliability of your competition...how is that not hijacking?
- dymk 5y ago
  They have their own messaging service, and their client supports two protocols - iMessage and SMS as a fallback in the event the recipient doesn't use iMessage. iMessage isn't hijacking anything, as it's _not involved with SMS_. It's an entirely separate system from SMS. If you can't use iMessage, then the client uses plain old, non hijacked, non augmented SMS. The word "hijacking" is being used because it's an aggressive sounding term that makes Apple sound like a bad guy. It's propaganda.
  - robmccoll 5y ago
    It's not hijacking a protocol - it's hijacking a client for the protocol. Most users were likely not aware that when they open iMessage (the default SMS application) on their brand new iPhone and send a message to another user by phone number that the application is actually choosing between routing that message via iMessage through Apple's backend or via SMS over their carrier's network. To me this would be similar to me operating as a browser vendor and having my own CDN that implements a separate protocol from HTTP, provides additional features beyond what HTTP can do, and displays a different color of banner to indicate that the website you are using is coming over my CDN. Then I don't allow arbitrarily anyone to implement my CDN protocol or connect to my CDN, so other browser vendors can't provide a competitive experience. Later when I have built a large marketshare, I decide that I'm good with HTTP 1.1 or whatever version of HTTP at the time and stop upgrading my implementation of that protocol. This is damaging to the other browser vendors and of users of websites that only support HTTP. Obviously this is an imperfect analogy given the client-server nature of HTTP, but I figured this might resonate with this audience.
truantbuick 5y ago
They held my number hostage for a while after I switched off iPhone. I think it took months for iPhone users to be able to message my number before it actually started reaching me again. I think there's a lot of truth to the word "hijacking" here.
- dewey 5y ago
  Did you deregister your number? https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/
  - truantbuick 5y ago
    I don't remember. It was many years ago -- circa 2015. Nevertheless, I'm irritated by the implication that it's the user's responsibility to do this. At least as recently as last year, I've discovered instances where iPhone users will not have received a message/image (both from me and others in group chat) seemingly randomly. I really don't like that Apple has managed to sell a prevailing narrative that it's somehow the fault of users who don't buy their expensive hardware that is necessary to use their software that impinges on an open protocol.
    - dewey 5y ago
      > I'm irritated by the implication that it's the user's responsibility to do this I don't think it's so irritating. When you set up your phone you are prompted to allow iMessage to use the number. If you allow it you'll have to remove it again after you decide to not use it again. Just like you have to cancel a subscription if you don't want to use it any more.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- robflynn 5y ago
  How long ago was that? There used to be a bug related to that, but disabling iMessage on your device before you switch off would resolve it. Not obvious, I know. I'm unsure if that's still a thing or if I'm even remembering it correctly.
ctvo 5y ago
> This is supposed to be a technical community so can we stop with this lazy abuse of terminology. Since this is a technical community, and you're a technical person who presumably knows how iMessage / Apple's infrastructure works, can you explain if this is correct: - I'm an iPhone user with phone number N. In Apple's system, I'm flagged as supporting the iMessage protocol. Presumably Apple has some gateway that routes messages, and this sends me down the iMessage route. - I swap phones. I now own an Android device. I have the same phone number N. - Apple's system is slow to update, and its gateway still sees me as an iPhone user supporting the iMessage protocol. - All messages from other iPhone users to my phone number are routed incorrectly and I don't receive them until Apple updates its gateway to use SMS for my phone number. If the above is correct, what would you call that? People who want to contact me have no idea what a protocol is, but Apple has impacted their ability to communicate with me. They think all text messages are the same, but this layer Apple has built isn't open or interoperable, and is additional friction for anyone wanting to switch off their platform. It's very hard to excuse this behavior.
- gmu3 5y ago
  hijacking
- Shank 5y ago
  I’m not saying this flow is good, but you can deregister and disable iMessage, even if you don’t leave iOS, but especially if you do: https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ It’s not intuitive of course, but you can totally turn it off and deregister, even if you don’t have your iPhone anymore.
  - ghughes 5y ago
    This only works for 1:1 conversations. If you were in any iMessage groups and then deregister, iOS will silently drop you from future messages, and it isn't possible for the same group composition to be re-established over MMS.
    - 5y ago
agentdrtran 5y ago
Apple has absolutely hijacked SMS. I missed a text from a family member for months becuase Apple decided it should go to my iPad that I never knowingly activated iMessage on.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  An SMS would have to relay through your phone, due to it having the phone service, so would show on both devices. It sounds like you had multiple iMessage identities (email1/email2/phone/etc.) and one of those was only enabled on the iPad.
  - agentdrtran 5y ago
    I do not, and have never owned, an iPhone. I only have an iPad and a work mac and without trying it managed to make me lose a text. I managed to disable it and deregister my number but the deregistration process was extremely buggy and a pain to begin with.
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      Interesting. I don't understand the source of the SMS you lost, then. As far as I know, it's not possible to forward SMS from an Android or feature phone to an iPad or a Mac without some clever workarounds.

rahimnathwani 5y ago

If I want to use the iOS messaging app to send an SMS message (not an iMessage) to another iOS user, how do I do that?

frosted-flakes 5y ago
I think you can disable the IMessage service. It's buried somewhere in the global Settings tool.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  That choice is global (affecting all messages, and all contacts). At the time I send a message to an iOS user (who has iMessage enabled), there's no way (AFAICT) for me to choose whether that message is sent via SMS or via iMessage. (Perhaps if I turn off my data connections, iOS will eventually send the message via SMS?)
  - amrangaye 5y ago
    What is your use case here? Why would you want to send an SMS to another user who also has iMessage? Or do you mean you think that should just be a capability of any messaging service?
    - frosted-flakes 5y ago
      Why not? Maybe someone doesn't want to reveal what phone they're using at the moment, or maybe they just prefer plain-ol SMS.
    - lurker_primo 5y ago
      I don't have an iphone, but I saw a similar issue with Signal. My wife and I use Signal to message each other and we have Signal as sms handler on our android phones. For some reason, she had to use a dumb phone with no Signal app for a couple of weeks. After a few days, she was suspicious that she is not getting some sms'es. I wanted to test if this was true, but I couldn't. Any message I sent to her number through Signal would be sent as a Signal message which wouldn't be delivered and I couldn't figure out how to send as sms. I had to change my sms app to another app, and then send using that app. Now, the new sms app couldn't read all older sms because Signal removes all sms from android sms database into Signal. So, now I use separate apps for Signal and sms.
quickthrowman 5y ago
https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  That choice is global (affecting all messages, and all contacts).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dev_tty01 5y ago
In the Messages app preferences, you turn off the big switch that enables iMessage. No need to deregister or anything. Just flip the switch. The deregister process mentioned here is intended for leaving the iOS ecosystem so that messages will find you properly.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  So, any time I want to send an SMS message to an iOS user, I need to turn off iMessage globally (affecting all message to/from all contacts). This isn't a practical option. I think that's why GGP's comment ("Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol") is justified. If you want to use any iMessage functionality, you surrender your ability to send SMS to iOS users.
  - thirdsun 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that the number of users actually wanting to send an SMS rather than an iMessage to their fellow iOS-equipped friends is very, very small. I can't even think of a fitting use case. It surely doesn't warrant a per-message-toggle and a global setting seems reasonable in my opinion.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

aendruk 5y ago

I’d say the problem is that Apple reserves this as a privilege for themselves. On Android you can set Signal as your SMS handler and use it as a similar dual client. I miss that feature when using iOS.

partiallypro 5y ago

They have created an environment that takes an SMS protocol that users think is standard across all cellular devices, and is apart of their monthly phone plan, and instead uses their own protocol (but only for their own devices.) That is hijacking. What other word is there? The average user has no idea that their SMS is actually being rerouted by Apple into their own system, they just know the bubble color is different. Some often assume that because their desktop iMessage doesn't always recieve messages from Android phones that the Android system is broken, when in fact it's not. So you are rerouting an open standard to your own platform, and you are giving users a false impression on reliability of your competition...how is that not hijacking?

dymk 5y ago
They have their own messaging service, and their client supports two protocols - iMessage and SMS as a fallback in the event the recipient doesn't use iMessage. iMessage isn't hijacking anything, as it's _not involved with SMS_. It's an entirely separate system from SMS. If you can't use iMessage, then the client uses plain old, non hijacked, non augmented SMS. The word "hijacking" is being used because it's an aggressive sounding term that makes Apple sound like a bad guy. It's propaganda.
- robmccoll 5y ago
  It's not hijacking a protocol - it's hijacking a client for the protocol. Most users were likely not aware that when they open iMessage (the default SMS application) on their brand new iPhone and send a message to another user by phone number that the application is actually choosing between routing that message via iMessage through Apple's backend or via SMS over their carrier's network. To me this would be similar to me operating as a browser vendor and having my own CDN that implements a separate protocol from HTTP, provides additional features beyond what HTTP can do, and displays a different color of banner to indicate that the website you are using is coming over my CDN. Then I don't allow arbitrarily anyone to implement my CDN protocol or connect to my CDN, so other browser vendors can't provide a competitive experience. Later when I have built a large marketshare, I decide that I'm good with HTTP 1.1 or whatever version of HTTP at the time and stop upgrading my implementation of that protocol. This is damaging to the other browser vendors and of users of websites that only support HTTP. Obviously this is an imperfect analogy given the client-server nature of HTTP, but I figured this might resonate with this audience.

truantbuick 5y ago

They held my number hostage for a while after I switched off iPhone. I think it took months for iPhone users to be able to message my number before it actually started reaching me again. I think there's a lot of truth to the word "hijacking" here.

dewey 5y ago
Did you deregister your number? https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/
- truantbuick 5y ago
  I don't remember. It was many years ago -- circa 2015. Nevertheless, I'm irritated by the implication that it's the user's responsibility to do this. At least as recently as last year, I've discovered instances where iPhone users will not have received a message/image (both from me and others in group chat) seemingly randomly. I really don't like that Apple has managed to sell a prevailing narrative that it's somehow the fault of users who don't buy their expensive hardware that is necessary to use their software that impinges on an open protocol.
  - dewey 5y ago
    > I'm irritated by the implication that it's the user's responsibility to do this I don't think it's so irritating. When you set up your phone you are prompted to allow iMessage to use the number. If you allow it you'll have to remove it again after you decide to not use it again. Just like you have to cancel a subscription if you don't want to use it any more.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
robflynn 5y ago
How long ago was that? There used to be a bug related to that, but disabling iMessage on your device before you switch off would resolve it. Not obvious, I know. I'm unsure if that's still a thing or if I'm even remembering it correctly.

ctvo 5y ago

> This is supposed to be a technical community so can we stop with this lazy abuse of terminology. Since this is a technical community, and you're a technical person who presumably knows how iMessage / Apple's infrastructure works, can you explain if this is correct: - I'm an iPhone user with phone number N. In Apple's system, I'm flagged as supporting the iMessage protocol. Presumably Apple has some gateway that routes messages, and this sends me down the iMessage route. - I swap phones. I now own an Android device. I have the same phone number N. - Apple's system is slow to update, and its gateway still sees me as an iPhone user supporting the iMessage protocol. - All messages from other iPhone users to my phone number are routed incorrectly and I don't receive them until Apple updates its gateway to use SMS for my phone number. If the above is correct, what would you call that? People who want to contact me have no idea what a protocol is, but Apple has impacted their ability to communicate with me. They think all text messages are the same, but this layer Apple has built isn't open or interoperable, and is additional friction for anyone wanting to switch off their platform. It's very hard to excuse this behavior.

gmu3 5y ago
hijacking
Shank 5y ago
I’m not saying this flow is good, but you can deregister and disable iMessage, even if you don’t leave iOS, but especially if you do: https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/ It’s not intuitive of course, but you can totally turn it off and deregister, even if you don’t have your iPhone anymore.
- ghughes 5y ago
  This only works for 1:1 conversations. If you were in any iMessage groups and then deregister, iOS will silently drop you from future messages, and it isn't possible for the same group composition to be re-established over MMS.
  - 5y ago

agentdrtran 5y ago

Apple has absolutely hijacked SMS. I missed a text from a family member for months becuase Apple decided it should go to my iPad that I never knowingly activated iMessage on.

1123581321 5y ago
An SMS would have to relay through your phone, due to it having the phone service, so would show on both devices. It sounds like you had multiple iMessage identities (email1/email2/phone/etc.) and one of those was only enabled on the iPad.
- agentdrtran 5y ago
  I do not, and have never owned, an iPhone. I only have an iPad and a work mac and without trying it managed to make me lose a text. I managed to disable it and deregister my number but the deregistration process was extremely buggy and a pain to begin with.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Interesting. I don't understand the source of the SMS you lost, then. As far as I know, it's not possible to forward SMS from an Android or feature phone to an iPad or a Mac without some clever workarounds.