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My problem with Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol and put a layer on top of it. Then they actively push against anything that

My problem with Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol and put a layer on top of it. Then they actively push against anything that would endanger that, including moving on to better standard protocols because it would eliminate some of the "prestige" or "status" that now comes with the bubble colors, reactions, etc. In the end that hurts not just Android users, but also Apple users. I'm honestly surprised more people don't complain about it...and given Google is really the only other big phone software maker now, it is their role to try to say something imo. "You reap what you sow" (as this article says) honestly sounds ignorant (or just pro-Apple) and really ignores the major problem here. Google has been bad at messaging apps, that doesn't mean this concern isn't real or a fairly big problem. Especially when the stats show that this is creating a hardware monopoly for Apple (look at the stats for young people,) in 10-15 years this creates a much bigger hardware market share for Apple. That is not a desirable outcome.

iamtheworstdev 5y ago
what's the better standard? RCS is trash. Google is literally pulling a "think of the children" campaign when the children don't even care what anyone is using because they're all on snapchat, whatsapp, and everything else.
- partiallypro 5y ago
  > Google is literally pulling a "think of the children" campaign when the children don't even care what anyone is using because they're all on snapchat, whatsapp, and everything else. Except stats don't back up what you are saying, at least not in the US. RCS is no less trash than SMS, it's actually an improvement over SMS. They could come together, along with carriers, to create an even better standard but one party is holding out...and blocking any innovation (hint, it's Apple.) I don't get how people are ok with them hijacking an open standard.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    Actually the issue is with carriers. They don't want features like end to end encryption because it relegates them to being a dumb pipe and limits their ability to innovate e.g. parsing SMS messages for advertising purposes. Also many carriers are closely tied to governments who want to be able to monitor communication. I've worked for a number of telcos over the years and can assure you that they don't have the interest of users at heart.
    - kitsunesoba 5y ago
      This isn’t emphasized enough. The carriers should have no more say in what comes to replace SMS than ISPs do. As such, RCS isn’t the answer simply because the carriers were involved. SMS’ successor should basically be a vendor agnostic WhatsApp or Signal complete with E2E built into the base spec instead of duct taped on as an extension that can conveniently be ignored.
      - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        > SMS’ successor should basically be a vendor agnostic WhatsApp or Signal complete with E2E built into the base spec instead of duct taped on as an extension that can conveniently be ignored. Great. Build something, then call me when you have the default messaging app on board on every platform save one. From my perspective, RCS has the best shot at this and the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.
  - iamtheworstdev 5y ago
    better than SMS is an extremely low bar. RCS is not better than iMessage. Simplest point - RCS isn't going to be received by all of my devices. It's only going to be received by my phone. That feature is one of the biggest selling points of iMessage.
    - kcb 5y ago
      Apple can support iMessage and RCS and SMS at the same time. They have the ability.
      - iamtheworstdev 5y ago
        but they have no need. literally no one is running around saying "we want RCS"
        kcb 5y ago
        we want RCS
        iamtheworstdev 5y ago
        are you a google developer? ;-)
- cwkoss 5y ago
  An open standard would be better. Google should be able to follow apple's specification to add the additional features, and when apple updates the standard, Android texts turn green until the update is pushed.
ubermonkey 5y ago
I don't know what you'd have them do that doesn't result in them giving up a competitive advantage. They're a minority phone player. They have their own messaging platform as a feature of their mobile OS, so making it available to other platforms is anathema to their own business goals and success of their own platform. I don't feel hurt or victimized by their choices here. It's not in my way at all.
- partiallypro 5y ago
  Minority phone maker? Apple is the biggest corporation on earth...and make up the majority of smart phone sales in the US. Yes they would have to give up a competitive advantage. That's the point.
  - mindfulmore 5y ago
    Pretty sure OP meant that they're a minority in terms of market share. The number of Android phones being used is probably 5x that of iPhones.
  - ubermonkey 5y ago
    Yes. They are, by the plain meaning of the words, a minority player in mobile phone sales globally by a HUGE margin. The most recent data for 2021 suggest that sales for last were split pretty evenly in the US, but overall usage still heavily favors Android. They DO have a much bigger footprint in some desirable segments of that market, but overall they're a minority player. By definition, minority players do not enjoy any monopolistic power. They are under no obligation to give up any competitive advantage until and unless they exhibit true, market-manipulating monopolistic behavior.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      Just because they don’t have a majority share of global sales doesn’t make them a “minority player”. That’s not really what that term means. The term “minority player” means they have less influence/importance than the “major players”. Though, to be fair I can see how that could be confusing (because English).
threeseed 5y ago
> Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol This is supposed to be a technical community so can we stop with this lazy abuse of terminology. Apple has not hijacked the SMS protocol in any way, shape or form. They've simply created an app that supports two protocols: SMS and iMessage with a UI that abstracts the difference.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  If I want to use the iOS messaging app to send an SMS message (not an iMessage) to another iOS user, how do I do that?
  - frosted-flakes 5y ago
    I think you can disable the IMessage service. It's buried somewhere in the global Settings tool.
    - rahimnathwani 5y ago
      That choice is global (affecting all messages, and all contacts). At the time I send a message to an iOS user (who has iMessage enabled), there's no way (AFAICT) for me to choose whether that message is sent via SMS or via iMessage. (Perhaps if I turn off my data connections, iOS will eventually send the message via SMS?)
      - amrangaye 5y ago
        What is your use case here? Why would you want to send an SMS to another user who also has iMessage? Or do you mean you think that should just be a capability of any messaging service?
        frosted-flakes 5y ago
        Why not? Maybe someone doesn't want to reveal what phone they're using at the moment, or maybe they just prefer plain-ol SMS.
i386 5y ago
> In the end that hurts not just Android users, but also Apple users. Apple iMessage user. The water is fine here.
donmcronald 5y ago
Worse than that, they hijack the whole contact. I have an iPad and an Android phone. Whenever someone with an iPhone would send me a message it would always go to my iPad via iMessage. I think the sender could change it on their end to use SMS for my messages, but you have to explain it to every iPhone using friend and they all tell you it “just works” with iPhones. Lol. Eventually I had to disable iMessage.
mizzao 5y ago
Isn't this just embrace, extend, extinguish all over again?

iamtheworstdev 5y ago

what's the better standard? RCS is trash. Google is literally pulling a "think of the children" campaign when the children don't even care what anyone is using because they're all on snapchat, whatsapp, and everything else.

partiallypro 5y ago
> Google is literally pulling a "think of the children" campaign when the children don't even care what anyone is using because they're all on snapchat, whatsapp, and everything else. Except stats don't back up what you are saying, at least not in the US. RCS is no less trash than SMS, it's actually an improvement over SMS. They could come together, along with carriers, to create an even better standard but one party is holding out...and blocking any innovation (hint, it's Apple.) I don't get how people are ok with them hijacking an open standard.
- threeseed 5y ago
  Actually the issue is with carriers. They don't want features like end to end encryption because it relegates them to being a dumb pipe and limits their ability to innovate e.g. parsing SMS messages for advertising purposes. Also many carriers are closely tied to governments who want to be able to monitor communication. I've worked for a number of telcos over the years and can assure you that they don't have the interest of users at heart.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    This isn’t emphasized enough. The carriers should have no more say in what comes to replace SMS than ISPs do. As such, RCS isn’t the answer simply because the carriers were involved. SMS’ successor should basically be a vendor agnostic WhatsApp or Signal complete with E2E built into the base spec instead of duct taped on as an extension that can conveniently be ignored.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      > SMS’ successor should basically be a vendor agnostic WhatsApp or Signal complete with E2E built into the base spec instead of duct taped on as an extension that can conveniently be ignored. Great. Build something, then call me when you have the default messaging app on board on every platform save one. From my perspective, RCS has the best shot at this and the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.
- iamtheworstdev 5y ago
  better than SMS is an extremely low bar. RCS is not better than iMessage. Simplest point - RCS isn't going to be received by all of my devices. It's only going to be received by my phone. That feature is one of the biggest selling points of iMessage.
  - kcb 5y ago
    Apple can support iMessage and RCS and SMS at the same time. They have the ability.
    - iamtheworstdev 5y ago
      but they have no need. literally no one is running around saying "we want RCS"
      - kcb 5y ago
        we want RCS
        iamtheworstdev 5y ago
        are you a google developer? ;-)
cwkoss 5y ago
An open standard would be better. Google should be able to follow apple's specification to add the additional features, and when apple updates the standard, Android texts turn green until the update is pushed.

ubermonkey 5y ago

I don't know what you'd have them do that doesn't result in them giving up a competitive advantage. They're a minority phone player. They have their own messaging platform as a feature of their mobile OS, so making it available to other platforms is anathema to their own business goals and success of their own platform. I don't feel hurt or victimized by their choices here. It's not in my way at all.

partiallypro 5y ago
Minority phone maker? Apple is the biggest corporation on earth...and make up the majority of smart phone sales in the US. Yes they would have to give up a competitive advantage. That's the point.
- mindfulmore 5y ago
  Pretty sure OP meant that they're a minority in terms of market share. The number of Android phones being used is probably 5x that of iPhones.
- ubermonkey 5y ago
  Yes. They are, by the plain meaning of the words, a minority player in mobile phone sales globally by a HUGE margin. The most recent data for 2021 suggest that sales for last were split pretty evenly in the US, but overall usage still heavily favors Android. They DO have a much bigger footprint in some desirable segments of that market, but overall they're a minority player. By definition, minority players do not enjoy any monopolistic power. They are under no obligation to give up any competitive advantage until and unless they exhibit true, market-manipulating monopolistic behavior.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    Just because they don’t have a majority share of global sales doesn’t make them a “minority player”. That’s not really what that term means. The term “minority player” means they have less influence/importance than the “major players”. Though, to be fair I can see how that could be confusing (because English).

threeseed 5y ago

> Apple's approach is they have essentially hijacked the SMS protocol This is supposed to be a technical community so can we stop with this lazy abuse of terminology. Apple has not hijacked the SMS protocol in any way, shape or form. They've simply created an app that supports two protocols: SMS and iMessage with a UI that abstracts the difference.

rahimnathwani 5y ago
If I want to use the iOS messaging app to send an SMS message (not an iMessage) to another iOS user, how do I do that?
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  I think you can disable the IMessage service. It's buried somewhere in the global Settings tool.
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    That choice is global (affecting all messages, and all contacts). At the time I send a message to an iOS user (who has iMessage enabled), there's no way (AFAICT) for me to choose whether that message is sent via SMS or via iMessage. (Perhaps if I turn off my data connections, iOS will eventually send the message via SMS?)
    - amrangaye 5y ago
      What is your use case here? Why would you want to send an SMS to another user who also has iMessage? Or do you mean you think that should just be a capability of any messaging service?
      - frosted-flakes 5y ago
        Why not? Maybe someone doesn't want to reveal what phone they're using at the moment, or maybe they just prefer plain-ol SMS.

i386 5y ago

> In the end that hurts not just Android users, but also Apple users. Apple iMessage user. The water is fine here.

donmcronald 5y ago

Worse than that, they hijack the whole contact. I have an iPad and an Android phone. Whenever someone with an iPhone would send me a message it would always go to my iPad via iMessage. I think the sender could change it on their end to use SMS for my messages, but you have to explain it to every iPhone using friend and they all tell you it “just works” with iPhones. Lol. Eventually I had to disable iMessage.

mizzao 5y ago

Isn't this just embrace, extend, extinguish all over again?