3 ms·

This is basically the Canada problem: we have tough rules for 95% of people, but we exempt 5% from it, so every variant quickly ends up here uncontrollably anyw

This is basically the Canada problem: we have tough rules for 95% of people, but we exempt 5% from it, so every variant quickly ends up here uncontrollably anyway. Windsor Ontario has something like 1000+ health care workers commuting to the Detroit area that have been exempt from most entry test/vaccination/quarantine requirements. Same for truckers and flight crews and ~30 other groups. I think this is only changing next week with an actual vaccination requirement. If you want to go for covid-zero, go for it, but if you half-ass it, you get all the disadvantages without any of the advantages.

frandroid 5y ago
I agree with you that Detroit/Windsor has been a sieve when it comes to sealing cases outside of the country, but considering that we've never come anywhere close to COVID zero, it's a minor concern at this time.
rhino369 5y ago
Your entry tests aren’t strong enough to prevent 100% of cases anyway. You need a strict, no exceptions quarantine that lasts long enough to cover any incubation period. And even then, workers at the quarantine site might get infected. Probably not even worth attempting given our border has so many illegal crossings.
- atkailash 5y ago
nradov 5y ago
A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant. The primary benefit of vaccination is preventing severe symptoms; it doesn't prevent infection or transmission. Covid-zero is impossible in any open society. China is still pursuing a covid-zero policy, but even with locking down entire cities and imposing travel bans they're far from zero.
- aix1 5y ago
  > The primary benefit of vaccination is preventing severe symptoms; it doesn't prevent infection [...] I think this dichotomy (prevents vs doesn't prevent) is false. Vaccination reduces the likelihood of getting infected and it reduces the likelihood of severe illness. Perhaps not to the same degree, but my point here is that it's not black & white as the quoted wording implies.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  > A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant It may increase it by selecting the un-protected strains. > it doesn't prevent infection or transmission Source? We’ve (largely) vaccinated our way out of other diseases. I haven’t heard of any outbreaks of mild measles or mild rubella and I suspect it’s because vaccination gets the R lower.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The COVID-19 vaccines are far less effective than measles and rubella vaccines. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
    - Scoundreller 5y ago
      The mRNA and viral vector vaccines are great at their targets. The targets have changed, but our vaccines haven’t. If we end up with measles2 and rubella2, I wouldn’t be surprised if my measles1 and rubella1 vaccines weren’t effective.

frandroid 5y ago

I agree with you that Detroit/Windsor has been a sieve when it comes to sealing cases outside of the country, but considering that we've never come anywhere close to COVID zero, it's a minor concern at this time.

rhino369 5y ago

Your entry tests aren’t strong enough to prevent 100% of cases anyway. You need a strict, no exceptions quarantine that lasts long enough to cover any incubation period. And even then, workers at the quarantine site might get infected. Probably not even worth attempting given our border has so many illegal crossings.

atkailash 5y ago

nradov 5y ago

A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant. The primary benefit of vaccination is preventing severe symptoms; it doesn't prevent infection or transmission. Covid-zero is impossible in any open society. China is still pursuing a covid-zero policy, but even with locking down entire cities and imposing travel bans they're far from zero.

aix1 5y ago
> The primary benefit of vaccination is preventing severe symptoms; it doesn't prevent infection [...] I think this dichotomy (prevents vs doesn't prevent) is false. Vaccination reduces the likelihood of getting infected and it reduces the likelihood of severe illness. Perhaps not to the same degree, but my point here is that it's not black & white as the quoted wording implies.
Scoundreller 5y ago
> A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant It may increase it by selecting the un-protected strains. > it doesn't prevent infection or transmission Source? We’ve (largely) vaccinated our way out of other diseases. I haven’t heard of any outbreaks of mild measles or mild rubella and I suspect it’s because vaccination gets the R lower.
- nradov 5y ago
  The COVID-19 vaccines are far less effective than measles and rubella vaccines. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    The mRNA and viral vector vaccines are great at their targets. The targets have changed, but our vaccines haven’t. If we end up with measles2 and rubella2, I wouldn’t be surprised if my measles1 and rubella1 vaccines weren’t effective.