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Asian Boss planted deep blue YouTuber and pretended he was a 'man on the street'
- pingsl 5y ago
- andriesm 5y agoIt would help if you can list the good facts, especially when it comes to free access of information by citizens, or their desire to swallow up the independence of Hong Kong and Taiwan.
- coldtea 5y agoWell, things like the normalization of everyday life (nothing like under Maoism where everybody was paranoid and millions died, people live regular lives, even with the authoritative rule of the party), opening up to businesses, lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, big health and education access, huge infrastructure updates and development, great technical and scientific progress, becoming the world's number two economy up from being outside even the top 10 30 years ago, and so on. And Hong Kong is also not exactly a noble history of a population determined to live free, but the result of a 100-year imposed lease of a whole area (as if it was some property) by a colonial power who deemed it a valuable port. Now, in 2022 most/many HKers want to be indepedent of RPC, but if it wasn't for that shady colonial past, Hong Kong would be part of China today, no?
- starfallg 5y ago>Well, things like the normalization of everyday life (nothing like under Maoism where everybody was paranoid and millions died, people live regular lives, even with the authoritative rule of the party), opening up to businesses, lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty, big health and education access, huge infrastructure updates and development, great technical and scientific progress, becoming the world's number two economy up from being outside even the top 10 30 years ago, and so on. This is more-or-less how Germany looked like in the 1930s. Really scary that some people don't realise the parallels.
- platinumrad 5y agoReally scary that some people don't realize the parallels between Germany in the 1930s and, uh, people not starving anymore.
- starfallg 5y agoGermans were starving in the 20s too due to the outcome of WWI. The Nazi 'fixed' that. And since we're talking about people starving, why don't we talk about the Great Leap forward and the massive famines caused by CCP policy?
- platinumrad 5y ago> Germans were starving in the 20s too due to the outcome of WWI. The Nazi 'fixed' that. It sure seems like a reach to say that China in the 2020s is like Germany in the 1930s because Chinese were starving in the 1960s (and, to lesser extents, the 1970s and 1980s) and Germans were starving in the 1920s. Wouldn't it follow that China in the 1970s (or 1980s or 1990s) is analogous to Germany in 1930s? Oh wait, of course not, because it's an absurd analogy in the first place. > And since we're talking about people starving, why don't we talk about the Great Leap forward and the massive famines caused by CCP policy? Sure, but I'm not sure what there is to say about it as I don't think anyone is going to argue that the Great Leap Forward was sensible policy or that famine is a good thing...
- starfallg 5y agoIt's an absurd analogy only if you're in denial about the horrors of extreme nationalism or ideologies coupled with authoritarianism. You even seem to deny that today's CCP is the same CCP as the one that cause the Great Leap Forward. In many ways, the CCP of today is more like the CCP of the 50s than the 90s.
- platinumrad 5y agoI agree that the CCP is, on balance, worse (e.g. more socially repressive) today than in the 90s but I don't think it's about to return to the bad old days of Red Guards and struggle sessions, or the really bad old days of farm collectivization and mass famine. I also don't think comparisons to Weimar or Nazi Germany are remotely appropriate. The state nutures nationalism, but so do most others. (B2 bombers flying over sports games? Subtle!) The major difference is many Chinese have experienced a sharp increase in standard of living within their lifetimes, so they are more likely to be nationalistic true believers. Ordinarily, this would subside in later generations, but my fear is that western jingoism and igorance about China is delaying or even reversing this process. There is a recent research paper which presents data showing Chinese international students were less likely to adopt liberal positions when confronted with anti-China attitudes. This matches my anecdotal experiences where people proselytizing the superiority of western systems of government (and/or the evils of the Chinese one) get basic facts wrong and completely alienate their targets.
- wonnage 5y agoI'll take the bait: - Standard of living has increased incomprehensibly over the last 40 years. - Huge cities with incredible culture and history. - Safe to walk around at night. Imagine walking around downtown NYC or LA at 3am without feeling like you're gonna get mugged. - Despite all the saber rattling with neighbors Taiwan, Japan, and India, and quarterly tank parades, not involved in hot wars since a misguided invasion of Vietnam in the 80s. Belt & Road might have some predatory loans but they're better than Predator drones. - COVID has been well-controlled. Wuhan escape was inevitable, just look at how fast variants have spread even with (initially) 70-90% effective vaccines. - Hong Kong Colony was leased to Britain under duress and returned by mutual and legal agreement; there is no independence argument here - The last invasion of Taiwan was by the KMT when they fled there in 1949. Today's military provocation consists of flying some jets into an ADIZ (50% of which actually covers Fujian province in China) or shooting some ordnance into the sea.
- starfallg 5y agoI'll take the bait-bait - >- Standard of living has increased incomprehensibly over the last 40 years. So did in Taiwan, SK, Japan, Hong Kong, Sinagpore, etc. in the 50s-90s. China is actually behind, and was slow to develop because of the mess that the revolution caused. >- Safe to walk around at night. Imagine walking around downtown NYC or LA at 3am without feeling like you're gonna get mugged. As above, the authoritarianism didn't cause this. Walk around 3am at night in any city in Japan, SK or Taiwan, it is the same. Unfortunately, that's not the case in HK anymore, especially if you look young, as you'll probably be treated as an insurgent by the police. >Belt & Road might have some predatory loans but they're better than Predator drones. Since we're playing et tu now, how about all the bases in the South China Seas and the border skirmishes with India? By all indications, if the US was not the world police, then China's (or Russia's) response, judging by their recent actions, would have been even worse. You also failed to mention China's role in the Korean war, in addition to Vietnam. >- COVID has been well-controlled. Wuhan escape was inevitable, just look at how fast variants have spread even with (initially) 70-90% effective vaccines. Hard to see COVID as a defence for China given that most of the world is still ticked off that China covered everything up, twice, leading to pandemic both times. It's surprising that they didn't learn the mistakes of SARS, and here we are with SARS-2. >- Hong Kong Colony was leased to Britain under duress and returned by mutual and legal agreement; there is no independence argument here This really betrays your sympathies. You don't even consider that what the people of Hong Kong desires and their right to self-determination. Hong Kong is more than just a few islands and a bit of land hanging off of the mainland. >- The last invasion of Taiwan was by the KMT when they fled there in 1949. Today's military provocation consists of flying some jets into an ADIZ (50% of which actually covers Fujian province in China) or shooting some ordnance into the sea. What is even your point here? Are you trying to say that it's actually Taiwan provoking China?
- divbzero 5y agoJust for context, GP’s original comment suggested that people who say they want to be rational or neutral about China are only interested in the bad facts about China, an attitude that leads to more misunderstanding. Sibling comments here have taken a generous attempt at assuming good faith and listing some good facts.
- zuminator 5y ago0) This surprisingly has nothing to do with chess engines or the US Democratic Party. 1) Documentary programs are almost always faked, in the sense that they present false continuity and false spontaneity. People often don't notice the manufactured aspect unless a subject they're intimately involved with is featured, and then it's immediately apparent.
- denton-scratch 5y agoI had some training on video news production, from a guy that does editing for major channels. You simply can't make engaging video without lots of cutting and splicing. You have to re-order segments to make a coherent storyline. All "live" video news is processed this way, otherwise nobody would watch it. The scales fell from my eyes; that was the beginning of my awakening to the true nature of video news.
- gerikson 5y agoFascinating to learn about the "Blue/Green" divide in Taiwanese attitudes to China. Does anyone know where the colors comes from?
- routerl 5y agoGreen is the color of the Democratic Progressive Party (currently in power, and the historical anti-KMT (read: anti-authoritarian) party)[0]. Green has thus become the color of the Taiwanese independence movement (i.e. not "Republic of China", but "Republic of Taiwan") Blue is the color of the KMT (former dictator party)[1], whose logo is still the top-left quadrant of the flag of Taiwan[2]. Historically, this party has claimed to be the politically legitimate government of all of China (as the "Republic of China" rather than the "People's Republic of China"), but lately is effectively an arm of the Communist Party of China. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Green_Coalition#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Green_Coalition#History [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Blue_Coalition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Blue_Coalition [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China
- GauntletWizard 5y agoHow did that takeover happen?
- routerl 5y agoIt's a long and fascinating story that involves China firing missiles to affect the outcome of Taiwan's first democratic election, as well as the largest American military action in Asia since the Vietnam War. In summary, the KMT upholds a "One-China Policy", which makes them a natural ally of the CCP against any Taiwan independence movements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis
- jabbany 5y agoBack in the day, the KMT (Nationalist party) was the conservative counterpart to the progressive CCP (Communist party). After the civil war stalemate, this left the mainland with only a progressive party and Taiwan with only a conservative party. Then Taiwan developed its own progressive party. And nowadays the CCP is becoming much more conservative under Xi... so... yeah...
- Stevvo 5y agoNot sure why they felt the need to go with a plant. The views this guy expressed are enshrined in the constitution and were the dominant ideaology until ~2000. Plenty of the older generation still think this way.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gfykvfyxgc 5y agoBoom - all credibility lost - it’s just a scam, another CCP shill. I actually watched this video the other day, and I remember this interviewee and I remember being surprised at how pro China the people of Taipei are. Clearly Asian Boss has served its CCP masters well because I was convinced this was real and not fake CCP propaganda.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- AussieWog93 5y agoI remember watching it and thinking the opposite. The article states that the guy was incredibly pro-KMT, which is about as anti-CCP as you can get. His perspective was interesting, but it is disappointing to find out he's a plant.
- gfykvfyxgc 5y agoSo why I wonder is this video coming up in our feeds? Could it be because the CCP want westerners to hear the message of how people in Taiwan actually want to unify with China? Yes I think so. The CCP know how to get things promoted on social media.
- toxik 5y agoThe KMT is not as anti-CCP as you can get, why do you say that?
- routerl 5y ago> pro-KMT, which is about as anti-CCP as you can get This isn't a binary issue. Historically, the KMT was the main opposition to the CCP, but both of these factions claim control over the mainland of China. The DPP (the greens) are both anti-CCP and anti-KMT, since the DPP is pro-independence; China is China, while Taiwan is Taiwan, and neither is a part of the other.
- gfykvfyxgc 5y agoI didn’t interpret what that guy said in the same way you did.
- iso1210 5y agoVox Pops, they're awful when the media use it, but at least the vox pop is supposed to highlight the story rather than set the story. Why anyone listens to it when some random youtube channel does is incomprehendable. Ask 1000 people a simple question and you'll get 10 crazy answers. Show 9 crazy answers and 1 normal question and claim 90% of people are crazy.
- swarnie 5y agoI dont know, asking people to point out a country they support bombing on a map never gets old. Bonus points if its a presidential candidate.
- iso1210 5y agoPresidential candidate isn't a vox pop, that's news You're talking entertainment, the cheapest form - laughing at other people. It's not journalism, but it pretends to be.
- einpoklum 5y agoSerious contender for top accidentally-misleading title for a HN story... * Asian Boss - Not a boss; actually a YouTube channel. * deep blue - not the chess engine, not the emotional state, not related to the US democratic party; nor to any of the films of this name; nor the songs of that name.
- bibinou 5y agoYes, please get some context in the title.
- kinghtown 5y agoI live in Taiwan. Very, very few people here are pro-PRC. Tons of Taiwanese people love China and culturally consider themselves Chinese (to be clear, not Chinese citizens.) The vast majority of people disagree on if they should either give up and surrender to the PRC because they may launch missiles or invade once they have a non-laughing stock navy, avoid a bloody war, or if China wouldn’t dare to do that because it would trigger WW3 so they are safe to declare and protect their country (Taiwan.) Everyone out here agrees that the PRC is basically evil. Edit: Just want to add that a lot of you probably have no idea that Chinese people and Taiwanese people also get along with each other just fine. They are unfortunately a geopolitical chess piece on the table between the PRC and Deep State US. I find it deliciously ironic that when Taiwanese people travel or work in China that they use their ROC (Taiwanese) passport and there is no issue with that. A lot of the conflict is also theatre for your American news cycle.
- throw8932894 5y ago
- krageon 5y agoTaiwan is the leftover of the fascist faction, is it not? Not exactly a paragon of Chinese cultural history. We're just looking at a very, very slow civil war.
- dncornholio 5y agoFor me it was apparent this channel is pure propoganda and i'm astonished this is up so high on HN. Couldn't even take the channel serious.
- kzrdude 5y agoWhich videos/topics are affected by that, in your opinion? Just curious what you have seen, since they have videos from multiple countries by multiple authors.
- dncornholio 5y agoMy memory recalls an interview from a guy who escaped from Korea. There were other warning signs as well but much more subtle and I don't recall them exactly. Like some people are being a bit too positive or some people seem to be oddly specific in their answers. I'm sure they have legit videos as well, but I can't be bothered by such channels.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- solidsnack9000 5y agoIn the USA we, too, have a "deep blue fringe" and a "deep green fringe".
- nicky0 5y agoAnd what are these?
- nicky0 5y agoI guess it was a joke that went over my head.
- DnDGrognard 5y agoIn the USA Deep Blue is a one nation Tory like that Nice Mr Obama :-)
- laurieg 5y agoI once interpreted for a crew recording "man on the street" interviews. I had no experience working in TV, I was a last minute replacement. At the beginning of the day, the producer listed the opinions he wanted to get. "Ok, we'll get a middle aged guy who says this, a younger couple saying something along these lines". He knew exactly what he wanted at the start of the day. There were three camera crews working most of the day getting interviews. I get the feeling that with a bit of editing you could have make "the public" have pretty much any view on a topic that you want.
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago> I get the feeling that with a bit of editing you could have make "the public" have pretty much any view on a topic that you want. Watching Meerkat Manor when I was younger taught me that any narrative can be archived with a bit of editing
- ekianjo 5y agoIt's journalism by selective editing. Fairly widespread practice.
- pessimizer 5y agoThe extremely budget modern version is the "Public Reacts" article that's a few paragraphs of bare editorial followed by 6-12 tweets with about 6-12 likes each.
- LAC-Tech 5y agoFairly widespread is undercutting it. It's universal practice. People hold journalists to crazy high standards of integrity and soothsaying, and the older I get the more it boggles the mind that grown adults still cling on to this. Journalists work for private corporations who write things for a target audience to make money. That's all there is to it.
- jlawson 5y agoIt's not just about money for the journalists themselves. Visit a journalism school and you'll find very few students there looking to maximize their earnings. It's a lot like other fields such as science or arts. People entering these careers knowlingly accept low pay and/or difficult working conditions in exchange for other kinds of satisfaction. For some it's intellectual curiosity; for others its artistic ambition or applause. For journalists, it's the psychological satisfication of using political influence to spread their beliefs to others. The actions of journalists cannot be understood according to a simple profit model. (The actions of their bosses can - they hire journos who will accept low pay, with the implicit exchange that those journos can use the position to satisfy their activist impulses. Fanatics work for cheap.)
- vlkr 5y agoI wonder how many accounts the chinese state maintains on hackernews to upvote/downvote post and comments. It's an easy way to influence the public opinion and hard to expose.
- logotype 5y agoIt is absolutely without any doubt happening on HN and I have previously been banned trying to point it out.
- platinumrad 5y agoDo you have any evidence, or just paranoid delusions?
- gostsamo 5y agoNot many, I think. I usually look at the new section of HN and check what has been flagged unreasonably. Anti-chinese post are rarely flagged multiple times. My opinion is that there are honest pro-chinese people on HN, most likely chinese working in the US who don't plan to stay for life and feel patriotic enough to protect the fatherland on internet forums.
- vlkr 5y agoMaybe, but i think every platform that has a lot of influence or a big audience is a valueable target for propaganda.
- gostsamo 5y agoAgree, just I'm lacking the evidence. Plus, we might overrate the importance of HN for the CCP. Most of their thought control is for internal use. The external influence is usually based on money and access to the chinese market, not by thrall farms. Exceptions apply to social media, but I think that they concentrate on the large platforms like FB, Twitter and Youtube.
- aneutron 5y agoThat's so sad ... I used to follow the channel from its beginnings, especially when they used to cover exclusively Korea and Japan (with Kei), but since then I dropped off. I'm very saddened to see it has reached this state.
- seoulmetro 5y agoYep. Me too. Followed after their first few videos which were interesting, but then stopped after they started making it an entertainment channel and could see through their lies. At least now I can tie a name to these shitty channel style: "vox pop". There are so many and they're so bad.
- netcan 5y agoThis is an instance of something true-by-default about media, journalism & such. What you see, read or hear is a story. A story told by a journalist or producer. It might be plants. It might be selective editing, with certain interviews making the cut... possibly a minority from a wide selection. The choice of question. The choice of location. Etc. It's just generally true that these are stories contrived by someone. We know this intellectually, but seeing and hearing still tends to beat our skepticism. Reality TV is, to me, the perfect example of this. Even though everyone knows reality TV is fake, we usually "forget" that a conversation between 2 people is taking place in front of a cameraman. That is, we don't really forget, but we also don't interpret the conversation as we would if we actually saw the cameraman.
- shmde 5y agoThe title sounds very cryptic. It should actually be somewhere along the lines of "Asian Boss a YouTube channel interviewed a popular Pro-CCP Youtuber and pretended he was just an ordinary man on the street"
- yorwba 5y agoHe's not a pro-CCP Youtuber, but a pro-KMT one, the KMT being the CCP's opponents in the Chinese civil war. Their party flag is blue with a white sun (found in the upper-left corner of the Taiwanese flag), hence "deep blue".
- Etheryte 5y agoI think this only exemplifies that the title can be hard to decipher if you're not deeply familiar with the context. If I understood this exchange correctly, the commenter above received the exact opposite of what the title was supposed to convey. The fact that I'm not sure either furthers the point.
- dmix 5y agoThe KMT party has shifted over the years to being far more pro-CCP than the other parties. Saying being deep blue and being pro-CCP is not disingenuous at all.
- maeln 5y agoPeople love micro-trottoire, you can find thousand of youtube channel doing them for country X, a lot with millions of views. They are one of the form of journalism that are the most easy to manipulate (show mostly one opinion, show "crazy" people for one opinion and only "classy" people for the other, ...) and their value is therefore very questionable (plus, who care what the guy down the street thinks about complex subject he has no education to have a opinion about). Sadly, a lot of people take them at face value.
- anyfactor 5y agoI used to see these Vox Pop YouTube videos occasionally. Like the line up videos, street interviews and what not. The issue I realized people are never going to give their open and unbiased opinion about something. Because they are moderated, edited and these people are always subjected to some form peer pressure from the group or the producers surrounding them. Moreover the questions are drafted in a "so you are saying" kind of way. Now that is assuming the production is random and fair and they are not hiring actors or screening people based on their political belief systems, which is obviously not the case. Being outside of US, I thought there are geopolitical and socially ambiguous questions which were drafted in a pattern that subtly were politically biased. Now, subtle political biasness would make people think I am a little bit out there. But what I realized I don't inherently have any strong political feelings at all. There are some objectively true facts that are often being manipulated to fit narratives. So it is best just to ignore these shows all together. These Vox Pop crap is nothing better than day time reality shows like 90 Days Fiancé, but atleast these reality shows are transparently stupid and does not want toy with an agenda.
- ridaj 5y agoI don't take this vox pop crap for more than what it is either, but this is about as honest as some China-based channel arranging an interview with Alex Jones in a random park and passing it off as the voice of a random American man of the street
- richardfey 5y agoTwo notes: - what is at the extremes, and in the middle, can be changing all the time, the view of the author is not "canon" in this sense - why does a YouTube video have more impact than the research? Perhaps more work on scientific publication is necessary
- joostshao 5y agoi am chinese, i followed asian boss. just for click and ads and money , politicized emotion is also for money. they need money like every company else.
- joostshao 5y agobut i am unsubscribed asian boss servral days ago.
- denton-scratch 5y ago> state plainly that you’ve gathered representatives from all segments of the Taiwanese political spectrum Hang on. Why do you have to do that? When did Youtube become a place to escape from bias, propaganda and misinformation? There's jargon in this article that suggests it's not meant for the likes of me. I clicked the "deep blue" link at the top, hoping to find out what the term meant (nope!) before I realised it was explained below. But KMT? Isn't that Kuomintang? Is ROC Republic of China, or Russian Olympic Committee?
- Quixotica1 5y agoI was so naive :cry: Damn you Asian boss! Damn youuuuuuuuuu!
- SergeAx 5y agoFor those who like me didn't understand the title. From paragraph 9: > For those who don't know, "deep blue" means very pro-KMT, generally favoring Chinese identity, closer ties with China and eventual unification with China. Search for KMT leads to Wikipedia article that says it is the same as Guomindang, the party was exciled from mainland China to Taiwan in 1949. I don't know how it evolved to "eventual unification" from "Taiwan is the only China", so I prefer to skip the article entirely as non-comprehensible. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang
- uranusjr 5y agoTo somewhat relief your confusion (but not nearly entirely; the KMT switching to pro-unification is in itself extremely incomprehensible that even Taiwanese don’t understand), the KMT never held the view “Taiwan is the only China”. Their original view was more like “we rule the only China from Taiwan” (and that China is even bigger than the PROC’s current territories).
- sh4un 5y agoPeople are surprised to find out media is usually deceptive and used for propaganda.
- jimmyvalmer 5y agoI'm far more sympathetic to the greens... but my personal views don't matter much. I don't mind the first part of the sentence; that's just editorial. The second part is weak-sauce backpedalling. The repetitive moral outrage made this piece five times longer than it needed to be.
- chilioil 5y agoConsidering that the writer resides in Taiwan but cannot vote there (not a citizen), perhaps that’s a literal statement of fact, not a backpedal.
- ChrisArchitect 5y agoI know this blog post is niche but title could be edited to simplify what "deep blue YouTuber" means here. For HN readers I mean. "...planted pro-China advocate for 'man on the street' opinions on Taiwan" > For those who don't know, "deep blue" means very pro-KMT, generally favoring Chinese identity, closer ties with China and eventual unification with China.
- chilioil 5y agoFor those who are wondering why the title is unclear or misleading: this blog is extremely niche, written for people living in or interested in Taiwan. Bet you the writer behind it, who is well-known in her niche and a permanent resident of Taiwan, never thought this post would make it to this site.
- chilioil 5y agoFor those who are wondering why the title is unclear or misleading: this blog is extremely niche, written for people living in or interested in Taiwan. Bet you the writer behind it, who is well-known in her niche and a permanent resident of Taiwan, never thought this post would make it to this site. There have been some updates since clarifying blue/green in the Taiwan context, so presumably she’s noticed.