4 ms·

I agree. To take it one step further: I have a pretty good relationship with my employer (coincidentally, Google). I don't need or want a third party to get i

by timmg 5y ago

I agree. To take it one step further: I have a pretty good relationship with my employer (coincidentally, Google). I don't need or want a third party to get in the middle of it.

Crash0v3rid3 5y ago
Also, Googles largest union, AWU, does not focus on anything I care about, so why should I pay them dues?
- guyzero 5y ago
  You can be interested in fixing bad behaviour on the part of companies with a lot of power and leverage even if you're not the victim of it. Sure, you can also do nothing.
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  I think that is intentional
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  That's fine. Unions are democratically controlled organizations and they won't always align with your personal interests. "This specific union does not align with my priorities, so I'll avoid joining" is not something that will aggravate too many activists. "Unions suck and everybody should resist them in general" is what bothers people.
guyzero 5y ago
Everyone has a good relationship with their employer _until they don't._ And when the relationship goes bad it also becomes very, very one-sided.
- julienb_sea 5y ago
  From what I can tell, a "bad relationship" with employer particularly in competitive tech fields is a direct result of poor performance by the employee, which actually seems reasonable. I don't think it makes sense to introduce bureaucracy with the explicit purpose of covering for poor performance, as that pummels incentives to actually perform well at work. It seems actively unfair to people that are doing their job well if a union is covering for people that aren't. Of course, a union can offer other benefits, but the downside of devaluing good performance seems strikingly not worthwhile.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - guyzero 5y ago
    Apparently if you go on maternity leave or extended sick/disability leave the relationship can also go bad. I think there are a significant number of cases where the relationship goes bad because of reasons other than just straight poor performance. But certainly, sure, straight poor performance is a frequent reason. I don't think that unions like AWU are particularly concerned with the general performance review process.
  - benhurmarcel 5y ago
    Early in my career, HR refused to apply me a significant raise that they had written I would get, because I wasn’t old enough. I had support from my managers, great results and feedbacks. And yet it didn’t matter that it was illegal, illogical, and against their own written words, they still refused. I almost quit over it. In the end one of the unions helped me, and collaborated with my manager to push HR to give me an even slightly bigger promotion based on my more recent results. I drastically changed opinion on the unions after that, and have subscribed ever since. They’re not perfect, but HR can be worse, even if you make them money. I was an engineer in Europe in a Fortune 500 company, for the record.
  - remram 5y ago
    What could you possibly be basing this on, and how are you so sure that this gut feeling is not at all caused by the various campaigns that corporations are provably spending millions of dollars on every year? Did you really never have a bad manager? Can you truly not believe that bad managers exist? I am really surprised by this comment.

by timmg 5y ago

I agree. To take it one step further: I have a pretty good relationship with my employer (coincidentally, Google). I don't need or want a third party to get in the middle of it.

Crash0v3rid3 5y ago

Also, Googles largest union, AWU, does not focus on anything I care about, so why should I pay them dues?

guyzero 5y ago
You can be interested in fixing bad behaviour on the part of companies with a lot of power and leverage even if you're not the victim of it. Sure, you can also do nothing.
cjbgkagh 5y ago
I think that is intentional
UncleMeat 5y ago
That's fine. Unions are democratically controlled organizations and they won't always align with your personal interests. "This specific union does not align with my priorities, so I'll avoid joining" is not something that will aggravate too many activists. "Unions suck and everybody should resist them in general" is what bothers people.

guyzero 5y ago

Everyone has a good relationship with their employer _until they don't._ And when the relationship goes bad it also becomes very, very one-sided.

julienb_sea 5y ago
From what I can tell, a "bad relationship" with employer particularly in competitive tech fields is a direct result of poor performance by the employee, which actually seems reasonable. I don't think it makes sense to introduce bureaucracy with the explicit purpose of covering for poor performance, as that pummels incentives to actually perform well at work. It seems actively unfair to people that are doing their job well if a union is covering for people that aren't. Of course, a union can offer other benefits, but the downside of devaluing good performance seems strikingly not worthwhile.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- guyzero 5y ago
  Apparently if you go on maternity leave or extended sick/disability leave the relationship can also go bad. I think there are a significant number of cases where the relationship goes bad because of reasons other than just straight poor performance. But certainly, sure, straight poor performance is a frequent reason. I don't think that unions like AWU are particularly concerned with the general performance review process.
- benhurmarcel 5y ago
  Early in my career, HR refused to apply me a significant raise that they had written I would get, because I wasn’t old enough. I had support from my managers, great results and feedbacks. And yet it didn’t matter that it was illegal, illogical, and against their own written words, they still refused. I almost quit over it. In the end one of the unions helped me, and collaborated with my manager to push HR to give me an even slightly bigger promotion based on my more recent results. I drastically changed opinion on the unions after that, and have subscribed ever since. They’re not perfect, but HR can be worse, even if you make them money. I was an engineer in Europe in a Fortune 500 company, for the record.
- remram 5y ago
  What could you possibly be basing this on, and how are you so sure that this gut feeling is not at all caused by the various campaigns that corporations are provably spending millions of dollars on every year? Did you really never have a bad manager? Can you truly not believe that bad managers exist? I am really surprised by this comment.