15 ms·

Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

402 points by znpy 5y ago

Dig1t 5y ago
Damn this is so cool, I wish we could have something like this in the US. We barely even have sidewalks in Texas (a great many streets only have them on one side), let alone bike pathways.
laputan_machine 5y ago
I wish my country would invest more into cycling infrastructure, £200m for 750km of track seems like a pretty good deal (if it's useful). Road infrastructure costs vary, but the last figure I read was around £10m/mile for the UK.
- the_monocle 5y ago
  Also don’t forget that road infrastructure actually is a HUGE maintenance burden and thats where most of its cost problems arise.
bandzest 5y ago
Now if they could just pick up all the trash and dog shit, we'll be great.
- PopeUrbanX 5y ago
- kavaruka 5y ago
  Milan has no problem with trash I also don’t think that this “benaltrismo” is useful :)
  - bandzest 5y ago
    Looking out of the window in Cinisello where I am right now, I'd be inclined to disagree with you. Far far different to Sweden, where I normally live.
    - pmontra 5y ago
      It's not as bad as in other places but there should be less trash and dog shit around. About dogs, owners started to pick up their poo and dispose of it years ago so it's not as bad as it used to be. However everything is relative. I was in Japan, maybe Tokyo, with a friend of mine from Switzerland (regarded by Italians as a very clean place) and he looked around and told me with a sad face "It looks cleaner than home."
  - martopix 5y ago
    benaltrismo = whataboutism, for those who don't speak Italian
Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxford-2021 https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf...: the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is really frustrating how highway engineers, as a profession, are unwilling to consistently learn lessons from the Netherlands in designing cycle infrastructure. Many cities seem to delight in half-assing their own solutions. So congratulations to Milan, who look like they may have got it right.
- the_biot 5y ago
  It's equally frustrating how a certain class of people, i.e. rabid anti-car cyclists, only read publications within their bubble that are equally anti-car, while constantly throwing shade at any country that is not the paradise Netherlands. I encourage you to take that next step: only commenting on these type of stories within your bubble.
  - jimmytidey 5y ago
    I'm a cyclist but I try to get as many perspectives as possible. Can you recommend some alternative material for cyclists who want to see the other side?
  - laputan_machine 5y ago
    When I commuted to work I cycled 16+ miles a day rain, snow or shine. I also own 2 cars, I love working on them. I've built a few bicycles and regularly maintain them for my friends and family. I think I have a pretty decent perspective on both sides. Cycling in the UK is 1% of road traffic, and are drowned out of the conversation on how roads are built up until very recently. They are the most vulnerable things on wheels. They are treated as second class citizens on the road, and are subject to abuse car drivers do not get. I'm not 'anti-car', I'm 'anti-getting-killed-while-cycling'. If a cyclist crashes into a car, the cyclist comes off worse. If a car crashes into a cyclist, the cyclist comes off worse. It's not even close. The relentless amount of hate cyclists receive in the UK is genuinely shocking to me, and any time any sort of positive action is attempted to be brought up (e.g. building new cycling infrastructure) the haters come out of the wood-work to act as if they're being oppressed. Do you cycle? My money is on 'no'.
jhoelzel 5y ago
Here in Berlin you can easily get with the bike through the entire city. If you survive that is a different topic, but you could if you wanted! IMHO the future lies somewhere between bikes, elon musk and the city tram. What we actually need is a vehicle that fullfills all criteria in some form. For instance: getting out of your apartment and onto one of those scooters to the next subway station where you either connect directly to the railroad or will be able to reach you destination unil the "last mile" where another scooter waits for you.... But we know how that goes and nobody actually will care about the scooter enough to return or take care of it. So what do we do? Uber-Tesla-Subway pods. I call it by phone, it shows up to my house, either transfers me or lets me dock with the subway and then brings me the last mile just to leave me there for the next thing it has to do. Self driving will mean the end of individual driving at that might not be as bad as we think it will be.
- the_french 5y ago
  > But we know how that goes and nobody actually will care about the scooter enough to return or take care of it. Looking at countries like the Netherlands this is not true. Train stations have rentable bikes which are always available in sufficient quantities. > So what do we do? Uber-Tesla-Subway pods. I call it by phone, it shows up to my house, either transfers me or lets me dock with the subway and then brings me the last mile just to leave me there for the next thing it has to do. Individual 'pods' will just never be a sufficiently scalable & ecologically friendly solution for any real city. There's just no way that having several hundred kilos of metal & plastic per individual, along with the space requirements (esp for safety) works. On the other hand, autonomous & shared 'cars' could replace individual vehicles for hauling / transporting as peak usage would be much lower than for transit.
  - jhoelzel 5y ago
    well its not neccesairly a pod per person but more a pod the city owns that is shared when i need it. Here in Berlin we do have bikes and scooters the like but its the same with car sharing. Sometimes you still will have to walk 15 minutes to your car (and thats the problem i mostly see with the scooters)
blamazon 5y ago
If you live in a region where bike infrastructure is underfunded, and car infrastructure is overfunded, it’s probable that’s because cycling is viewed as a recreational activity in your area and thus undeserving of tax dollars compared to ‘essential’ car travel. If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! Find out who controls the infrastructure spending in your area and call/email them.
- netcan 5y ago
  >>If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! You know, I'm not sure that in the current moment in time there's much correlation between living in a democracy and the efficacy of petitioning the municipality/ government/ etc.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Diesel555 5y ago
    I just think people's perception in how easily their opinion should change public policy is wrong. And I'm glad it is. They usually don't know all the nuances behind a given policy. I see people both irritated with the lack of change in American government while also not politically active (Facebook doesn't count). Creating policy change is challenging in a government defined by federalism and representative democracy like the United States. I agree letting someone know is likely not enough to make a big change (and it shouldn't be). But if enough people think one way and let the right people know, then they can influence change. People need to organize. A large group that agrees on a topic has influence. Elected officials will listen to them because they can move a large number of votes. The group needs a way to communicate their desires and power (ie. numbers) to elected officials. This is usually accomplished via interest groups which can lobby for their interest. I know lobbying is a dirty word, but it exists on one end of the spectrum. The spectrum exists from attending a local town hall and voicing your solo opinion (which I recommend doing!) to smaller organizations on local issues all the way to the major interest groups (Sierra Club, NAACP, NRA, AARP, etc) voicing millions of opinions. There is a correlation, but not on the magnitude per person, work required, or time frame that most people hope for. You likely won't make a meaningful change with a single letter (I say likely because you can find counterexamples).
mrtksn 5y ago
Europe has some serious success in this. UK is also not that bad, London has "Cycle Superhighways"[0], which are essentially 2 way designated lines with 1 bike per line capacity. The problem comes down to coverage patchiness. In some places these lines are simply a marking on the road that will not always be respected by the cars and there are places where you need to cycle among large buses and other vehicles which can get scary if there are many of those. But other than that, even in relatively large cities like London, bike only transportation is very feasible. Even better, if you are not feeling like break sweat, there are hybrid electric bikes where the electric motor will propel you down the road and you can push the pedals only when you want to do it. Bike lines are also good for other personal transportation solutions that are getting popular. Carless transportation in the cities is mostly solved problem actually. [0] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/routes-and-maps/cycleways https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/routes-and-maps/cycleways
pmontra 5y ago
If any of you have been to Milan, the inner circle of the image [1] is more or less the city boundary. That path could be anything between 70 to 100 km according to how they'll design it. I had no problems cycling 100+ km around the city during the second quasi-lockdown of one winter ago. The grey area is what's called "città metropolitana" now, basically the old province of Milan including more than 100 of other cities. Milan accounts for almost half of the population. [1] Deep link to the bike paths network https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/milan-cambio-proposed-cycling-routes.png https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/pu...
- eCa 5y ago
  I would have thought that the inner circle would be the Via Santa Sofia-Via Senato circle road. I’ve never been to the city-proper, only the train station, but it seems strange that any of the missing 20% would be in the city center.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    I found this PDF from the City council [1] There is an example about "Line 6" at page 14. It starts almost at the eastern city border. [1] https://www.cittametropolitana.mi.it/export/sites/default/portale/news/doc/Presentazione_CAMBIO_Consiglio_29nov2021.pdf https://www.cittametropolitana.mi.it/export/sites/default/po...
  - bonzini 5y ago
    If you zoom it enough you can read the text albeit only barely. The second circle goes as far as Assago and Sesto San Giovanni; the third goes as far Rozzano and Rho; the fourth goes as far as Cornaredo and Pioltello. Based on this the first circle should be the circonvallazione esterna (viale Liguria etc.).
Dumblydorr 5y ago
A local university was surprised apparently. The city had put in a protected bike lane next to their campus, thinking to help students. Welp, it was gorgeous, until they immediately had it all removed, thousands upon thousands of dollars wasted. They needed the few dozen parking spaces back apparently, and the bike path wasn't 100 percent safe as it used the sidewalk in a couple sections. Sigh. It will take us hundreds of years to figure out the proper infrastructure.
eecc 5y ago
Aaaah completion-date 2035. I see where that’s going (although I’ll be happy to be surprised)
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Apparently the first new paths are opening this summer. If they have a regular cadence of opening new paths and prioritize connecting a network together, it won’t matter if they only end up building half because the half they did manage to build could still be a huge improvement.
- oriettaxx 5y ago
  ah, me too public work in Italy very seldom respect deadlines; "scheduled to be ready" .... you can imagine
qwerty456127 5y ago
BTW the next problem we have to solve after bike paths lacking in a city are showers lacking in office buildings.
- blamazon 5y ago
  E-bikes help with this. No need to be sweaty if an electric motor is doing most of the work.
- kasey_junk 5y ago
  Say what you want about leed certifications one very nice aspect of them is they require bike storage & showers in addition to all the green energy requirements.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- kawsper 5y ago
  I bike to work in -2 to ~30 degrees celcius, as long as you don't go really fast you don't really sweat that much in the climate of Denmark, it's mostly about pacing and not wearing too many layers. I leave the fastpaced action for the trip home, just bring spare clothes in case of rain :-)
  - agos 5y ago
    with the weather in Milan, from late June to early September even one layer is too much
dan_pixelflow 5y ago
Re: London's cycle network... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg
trosi 5y ago
Giving how well public transportation works in Milan and how expensive it is to own and park a car in the city center, I am surprised at how many people still insist on driving. Personally I can't wait for reserved bike lanes everywhere. Milan is small in size if compared to other European main cities, you could probably bike across the city in half an hour
lbriner 5y ago
There is an issue that needs consideration, if you compare to Japan which has enormous cycle usage. Although it is good for air pollution, you end up seeing whole seas of cycles everywhere which is not nice in terms of the aesthetic nvironment. Go to a normal suburban train station and there might be 500+ bikes all in a massive area. Better than a large car park but we don't get many large station car parks in the UK. At least with mass transit like buses and trains, the vehicle isn't parked anywhere for any length of time whereas most cycles have very low utilisation in terms of hours per day. It is impossible without registration to know how many bikes are abandoned. Not sure if the authorities in Japan already have a system for dealing with that.
- pmontra 5y ago
  Bicycles locked wherever is possible are not nice to look at but to be fair the seas of parked cars along the streets are also not aesthetically nice and cars move maybe 2 or 3 hours per day, then most of them loot the streets. Abandoned cycle shares bicycles are definitely sad to look at and should be removed as soon as possible especially when they belong to a failed company. Disclaimer: I drive much more than I cycle.
- kubb 5y ago
  In an area where you store 1 car, you could instead store 20 bicycles (more with better storage infrastructure). If 20% of people switch from driving to biking, you can save 19% of the storage space, which will be reclaimed by the city. The decluttering of the public spaces has a positive aesthetic effect on the urban environment, which is clearly visible in Dutch cities.
- bjackman 5y ago
  In my city there is a team that goes around the bike racks marking tyres with chalk. If they find chalk still on the tyre next time they tie a note to the bike saying you need to move it. If they find the note still there next time they remove the bike. Simple solution for a simple problem.
- roars 5y ago
  Abandoned bikes are a problem here in Denmark as well, but not an insurmountable one. City workers regularly put tags on the wheels of bikes parked at , fx. the train station. If the tags are not disturbed in a month or so, the bikes are removed.
curtson 5y ago
They did a great way of encouraging biking and reducing total carbon emissions. I hope that other countries will start doing this like this and will create an overall effort to impact our environment positively.
thoweri3434 5y ago
+1 I wish we could have something like this here in the overcrowded cities of India, with increasing number of single-driver cars/taxis hogging evermore traffic. Motor vehicles run at an average speed of ~20km/h despite all the pollution and general danger, and will take about the same amount of time as commuting by bicycle - a cycling network will make it a lot faster. Alas, amidst the political dramas, crooked bureaucrats and the real-estate mafia, I doubt we'll get serious town-planning in the next 20 y.
taude 5y ago
Bikes are a pretty big part of Italian transport, or at least more so than any other place I've been other than Amsterdam. My girlfriend lived in a small town about 1.5 hours outside of Milan for a year, and was surprised by the bike path system that linked all the towns together around Lake Garda, and how old some of the people were who were riding to visit friends and family. Literally, age wasn't a reason to not ride a bike on these safe bikeways.
- mdrzn 5y ago
  Italian here: good weather, bikes are kinda cheap, why wouldn't you bike often? The more you bike, the better the infrastructure gets around you.
  - Tade0 5y ago
    Bike theft. When I lived in Bologna it was so rampant that there was a place where you could assemble a bike for free out of the parts left by thieves, picked up by the cleaning services. Then again Bologna isn't particularly large. I never had a need to cycle there. I would either walk or drive and occasionally use public transport.
- martopix 5y ago
  I don't quite agree. I mean yes, we use bikes, but Milan is one of the most car-heavy cities I've seen in Europe. There are cars everywhere, parked on tram stops, parked in the middle of the road, etc. It sucks, and I definitely don't feel safe cycling. What you say holds for smaller towns. In my hometown 40 km from Milan I never needed a car nor a bus. (However as soon as you need to go to the next town you need a car.)
martopix 5y ago
Milan and other large Italian cities have a terrible car-centric culture. In Rome this is more justified because public transport sucks. In Milan, I don't get it. I will believe this kind of change only when I see it.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > In Milan, I don't get it Italian from Rome living in Milan for 8 years now. The explanation is simple: transport of goods _and_ a lot of people coming from Monza/Brianza area to work in Milan and back home in the evening. Crazy at it seems, they prefer to use their cars over the (frankly terrible) regional trains, that in theory can do Monza-Milan in 10 minutes, but in practice most of the times are late, overcrowded or canceled, with no warnings. There's also a lot of traffic between Milan and San Donato Milanese where a lot of large companies have their own old school giant offices with thousands of employees (Eni, for example) .
peoplefromibiza 5y ago
TBF the new biking lane in Viale Monza sucks big time. Also: you can make how many bike lanes you want, they will never make biking in the cold comfortable, especially for people that are not used to it. A lot of people living in Milan come from warmer weathers. So the main users of bike paths are riders delivering food with their e-bikes and/or tier scooters. EDIT: I've been living in Milan for 8 years, i live where the new bike lane is, it's 100% a design by committee [1], that it's so bad that sometimes it runs on the right of public transports, so when the bus has to stop, the bikes run into the people getting off, some other times it runs on the left of the bus stop, so when the bus has to stop it needs to cross over the bike lane, which is as dangerous as you might think. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee
- agos 5y ago
  the new biking lane in Viale Monza is the greatest thing to happen to Viale Monza since the metro. with "warmer weathers" are you referring to southern Italy? because the same riders you said are using the bike lanes are coming from actually warmer weathers (like western Africa) and if they manage to bike around all evening in January maybe a person from Puglia can commute without big issues. and the main safety issue with that bike lane (or any other bike lane in this city) is people who treat it as a parking spot or a car lane, not the occasional bus
jsinai 5y ago
This is great news to see. I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in Milan. It is one of my favourite cities, although the pollution is noticeable. Something else I’m hoping this plan will improve is noise pollution. Thanks to the ubiquitous Milan is one of the noisiest cities I’ve been in. One thing I’m curious to know is how the cobble stones will be handled. Some of those circular routes have cobbled sections. They remain for historical reasons, however the vibrations to a cyclist would be jarring.
mdavis6890 5y ago
Glad to see they're making an attempt, and I hope it works out well, but there is a big difference between talking about something that will (might, we hope) get done in the future, VS something that has already been accomplished that one can feel proud of. I look forward to seeing if this can make the transition from the former to the latter. Also, major yellow flag: "The paths will also feature state-of-the-art infrastructure, including low-impact motion-sensor lighting, digital displays, and a network of fibre optic cables, ..." Sounds like exactly the kind of over-engineering and over-specing that plagues these kinds of projects.
ryzvonusef 5y ago
the real competition for bike paths will be for normal unpowered bikes and slow pedal-assist ebikes competing with fast throttle "ebikes" and electric scooters/mopeds. The fast bikes are still not fast enough and safe enough to ride with cars, but too fast for regular bike paths, so what will give?
- giraffe_lady 5y ago
  The role those fill isn't that different from scooters, which are common in a lot of places. The traditional solution is to let them crowd the road, slowing car traffic and incentivizing using more scooters and other vehicles better able to navigate the congestion. I am genuinely sincerely in favor of this. It's inelegant but effective. Driving a car should be more frustrating and uncomfortable than it currently is in the US. Giving slight advantages to slower, non-car road traffic can improve safety and increase the costs of driving over other options, which is long term good.

402 points by znpy 5y ago

Damn this is so cool, I wish we could have something like this in the US. We barely even have sidewalks in Texas (a great many streets only have them on one side), let alone bike pathways.

laputan_machine 5y ago

I wish my country would invest more into cycling infrastructure, £200m for 750km of track seems like a pretty good deal (if it's useful). Road infrastructure costs vary, but the last figure I read was around £10m/mile for the UK.

the_monocle 5y ago
Also don’t forget that road infrastructure actually is a HUGE maintenance burden and thats where most of its cost problems arise.

bandzest 5y ago

Now if they could just pick up all the trash and dog shit, we'll be great.

PopeUrbanX 5y ago
kavaruka 5y ago
Milan has no problem with trash I also don’t think that this “benaltrismo” is useful :)
- bandzest 5y ago
  Looking out of the window in Cinisello where I am right now, I'd be inclined to disagree with you. Far far different to Sweden, where I normally live.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    It's not as bad as in other places but there should be less trash and dog shit around. About dogs, owners started to pick up their poo and dispose of it years ago so it's not as bad as it used to be. However everything is relative. I was in Japan, maybe Tokyo, with a friend of mine from Switzerland (regarded by Italians as a very clean place) and he looked around and told me with a sad face "It looks cleaner than home."
- martopix 5y ago
  benaltrismo = whataboutism, for those who don't speak Italian

Doctor_Fegg 5y ago

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxford-2021 https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf...: the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is really frustrating how highway engineers, as a profession, are unwilling to consistently learn lessons from the Netherlands in designing cycle infrastructure. Many cities seem to delight in half-assing their own solutions. So congratulations to Milan, who look like they may have got it right.

the_biot 5y ago
It's equally frustrating how a certain class of people, i.e. rabid anti-car cyclists, only read publications within their bubble that are equally anti-car, while constantly throwing shade at any country that is not the paradise Netherlands. I encourage you to take that next step: only commenting on these type of stories within your bubble.
- jimmytidey 5y ago
  I'm a cyclist but I try to get as many perspectives as possible. Can you recommend some alternative material for cyclists who want to see the other side?
- laputan_machine 5y ago
  When I commuted to work I cycled 16+ miles a day rain, snow or shine. I also own 2 cars, I love working on them. I've built a few bicycles and regularly maintain them for my friends and family. I think I have a pretty decent perspective on both sides. Cycling in the UK is 1% of road traffic, and are drowned out of the conversation on how roads are built up until very recently. They are the most vulnerable things on wheels. They are treated as second class citizens on the road, and are subject to abuse car drivers do not get. I'm not 'anti-car', I'm 'anti-getting-killed-while-cycling'. If a cyclist crashes into a car, the cyclist comes off worse. If a car crashes into a cyclist, the cyclist comes off worse. It's not even close. The relentless amount of hate cyclists receive in the UK is genuinely shocking to me, and any time any sort of positive action is attempted to be brought up (e.g. building new cycling infrastructure) the haters come out of the wood-work to act as if they're being oppressed. Do you cycle? My money is on 'no'.

jhoelzel 5y ago

Here in Berlin you can easily get with the bike through the entire city. If you survive that is a different topic, but you could if you wanted! IMHO the future lies somewhere between bikes, elon musk and the city tram. What we actually need is a vehicle that fullfills all criteria in some form. For instance: getting out of your apartment and onto one of those scooters to the next subway station where you either connect directly to the railroad or will be able to reach you destination unil the "last mile" where another scooter waits for you.... But we know how that goes and nobody actually will care about the scooter enough to return or take care of it. So what do we do? Uber-Tesla-Subway pods. I call it by phone, it shows up to my house, either transfers me or lets me dock with the subway and then brings me the last mile just to leave me there for the next thing it has to do. Self driving will mean the end of individual driving at that might not be as bad as we think it will be.

the_french 5y ago
> But we know how that goes and nobody actually will care about the scooter enough to return or take care of it. Looking at countries like the Netherlands this is not true. Train stations have rentable bikes which are always available in sufficient quantities. > So what do we do? Uber-Tesla-Subway pods. I call it by phone, it shows up to my house, either transfers me or lets me dock with the subway and then brings me the last mile just to leave me there for the next thing it has to do. Individual 'pods' will just never be a sufficiently scalable & ecologically friendly solution for any real city. There's just no way that having several hundred kilos of metal & plastic per individual, along with the space requirements (esp for safety) works. On the other hand, autonomous & shared 'cars' could replace individual vehicles for hauling / transporting as peak usage would be much lower than for transit.
- jhoelzel 5y ago
  well its not neccesairly a pod per person but more a pod the city owns that is shared when i need it. Here in Berlin we do have bikes and scooters the like but its the same with car sharing. Sometimes you still will have to walk 15 minutes to your car (and thats the problem i mostly see with the scooters)

blamazon 5y ago

If you live in a region where bike infrastructure is underfunded, and car infrastructure is overfunded, it’s probable that’s because cycling is viewed as a recreational activity in your area and thus undeserving of tax dollars compared to ‘essential’ car travel. If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! Find out who controls the infrastructure spending in your area and call/email them.

netcan 5y ago
>>If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! You know, I'm not sure that in the current moment in time there's much correlation between living in a democracy and the efficacy of petitioning the municipality/ government/ etc.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Diesel555 5y ago
  I just think people's perception in how easily their opinion should change public policy is wrong. And I'm glad it is. They usually don't know all the nuances behind a given policy. I see people both irritated with the lack of change in American government while also not politically active (Facebook doesn't count). Creating policy change is challenging in a government defined by federalism and representative democracy like the United States. I agree letting someone know is likely not enough to make a big change (and it shouldn't be). But if enough people think one way and let the right people know, then they can influence change. People need to organize. A large group that agrees on a topic has influence. Elected officials will listen to them because they can move a large number of votes. The group needs a way to communicate their desires and power (ie. numbers) to elected officials. This is usually accomplished via interest groups which can lobby for their interest. I know lobbying is a dirty word, but it exists on one end of the spectrum. The spectrum exists from attending a local town hall and voicing your solo opinion (which I recommend doing!) to smaller organizations on local issues all the way to the major interest groups (Sierra Club, NAACP, NRA, AARP, etc) voicing millions of opinions. There is a correlation, but not on the magnitude per person, work required, or time frame that most people hope for. You likely won't make a meaningful change with a single letter (I say likely because you can find counterexamples).

mrtksn 5y ago

Europe has some serious success in this. UK is also not that bad, London has "Cycle Superhighways"[0], which are essentially 2 way designated lines with 1 bike per line capacity. The problem comes down to coverage patchiness. In some places these lines are simply a marking on the road that will not always be respected by the cars and there are places where you need to cycle among large buses and other vehicles which can get scary if there are many of those. But other than that, even in relatively large cities like London, bike only transportation is very feasible. Even better, if you are not feeling like break sweat, there are hybrid electric bikes where the electric motor will propel you down the road and you can push the pedals only when you want to do it. Bike lines are also good for other personal transportation solutions that are getting popular. Carless transportation in the cities is mostly solved problem actually. [0] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/routes-and-maps/cycleways https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/cycling/routes-and-maps/cycleways

pmontra 5y ago

If any of you have been to Milan, the inner circle of the image [1] is more or less the city boundary. That path could be anything between 70 to 100 km according to how they'll design it. I had no problems cycling 100+ km around the city during the second quasi-lockdown of one winter ago. The grey area is what's called "città metropolitana" now, basically the old province of Milan including more than 100 of other cities. Milan accounts for almost half of the population. [1] Deep link to the bike paths network https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/milan-cambio-proposed-cycling-routes.png https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/pu...

eCa 5y ago
I would have thought that the inner circle would be the Via Santa Sofia-Via Senato circle road. I’ve never been to the city-proper, only the train station, but it seems strange that any of the missing 20% would be in the city center.
- pmontra 5y ago
  I found this PDF from the City council [1] There is an example about "Line 6" at page 14. It starts almost at the eastern city border. [1] https://www.cittametropolitana.mi.it/export/sites/default/portale/news/doc/Presentazione_CAMBIO_Consiglio_29nov2021.pdf https://www.cittametropolitana.mi.it/export/sites/default/po...
- bonzini 5y ago
  If you zoom it enough you can read the text albeit only barely. The second circle goes as far as Assago and Sesto San Giovanni; the third goes as far Rozzano and Rho; the fourth goes as far as Cornaredo and Pioltello. Based on this the first circle should be the circonvallazione esterna (viale Liguria etc.).

Dumblydorr 5y ago

A local university was surprised apparently. The city had put in a protected bike lane next to their campus, thinking to help students. Welp, it was gorgeous, until they immediately had it all removed, thousands upon thousands of dollars wasted. They needed the few dozen parking spaces back apparently, and the bike path wasn't 100 percent safe as it used the sidewalk in a couple sections. Sigh. It will take us hundreds of years to figure out the proper infrastructure.

eecc 5y ago

Aaaah completion-date 2035. I see where that’s going (although I’ll be happy to be surprised)

dougmwne 5y ago
Apparently the first new paths are opening this summer. If they have a regular cadence of opening new paths and prioritize connecting a network together, it won’t matter if they only end up building half because the half they did manage to build could still be a huge improvement.
oriettaxx 5y ago
ah, me too public work in Italy very seldom respect deadlines; "scheduled to be ready" .... you can imagine

qwerty456127 5y ago

BTW the next problem we have to solve after bike paths lacking in a city are showers lacking in office buildings.

blamazon 5y ago
E-bikes help with this. No need to be sweaty if an electric motor is doing most of the work.
kasey_junk 5y ago
Say what you want about leed certifications one very nice aspect of them is they require bike storage & showers in addition to all the green energy requirements.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kawsper 5y ago
I bike to work in -2 to ~30 degrees celcius, as long as you don't go really fast you don't really sweat that much in the climate of Denmark, it's mostly about pacing and not wearing too many layers. I leave the fastpaced action for the trip home, just bring spare clothes in case of rain :-)
- agos 5y ago
  with the weather in Milan, from late June to early September even one layer is too much

dan_pixelflow 5y ago

Re: London's cycle network... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg

trosi 5y ago

Giving how well public transportation works in Milan and how expensive it is to own and park a car in the city center, I am surprised at how many people still insist on driving. Personally I can't wait for reserved bike lanes everywhere. Milan is small in size if compared to other European main cities, you could probably bike across the city in half an hour

lbriner 5y ago

There is an issue that needs consideration, if you compare to Japan which has enormous cycle usage. Although it is good for air pollution, you end up seeing whole seas of cycles everywhere which is not nice in terms of the aesthetic nvironment. Go to a normal suburban train station and there might be 500+ bikes all in a massive area. Better than a large car park but we don't get many large station car parks in the UK. At least with mass transit like buses and trains, the vehicle isn't parked anywhere for any length of time whereas most cycles have very low utilisation in terms of hours per day. It is impossible without registration to know how many bikes are abandoned. Not sure if the authorities in Japan already have a system for dealing with that.

pmontra 5y ago
Bicycles locked wherever is possible are not nice to look at but to be fair the seas of parked cars along the streets are also not aesthetically nice and cars move maybe 2 or 3 hours per day, then most of them loot the streets. Abandoned cycle shares bicycles are definitely sad to look at and should be removed as soon as possible especially when they belong to a failed company. Disclaimer: I drive much more than I cycle.
kubb 5y ago
In an area where you store 1 car, you could instead store 20 bicycles (more with better storage infrastructure). If 20% of people switch from driving to biking, you can save 19% of the storage space, which will be reclaimed by the city. The decluttering of the public spaces has a positive aesthetic effect on the urban environment, which is clearly visible in Dutch cities.
bjackman 5y ago
In my city there is a team that goes around the bike racks marking tyres with chalk. If they find chalk still on the tyre next time they tie a note to the bike saying you need to move it. If they find the note still there next time they remove the bike. Simple solution for a simple problem.
roars 5y ago
Abandoned bikes are a problem here in Denmark as well, but not an insurmountable one. City workers regularly put tags on the wheels of bikes parked at , fx. the train station. If the tags are not disturbed in a month or so, the bikes are removed.

curtson 5y ago

They did a great way of encouraging biking and reducing total carbon emissions. I hope that other countries will start doing this like this and will create an overall effort to impact our environment positively.

thoweri3434 5y ago

+1 I wish we could have something like this here in the overcrowded cities of India, with increasing number of single-driver cars/taxis hogging evermore traffic. Motor vehicles run at an average speed of ~20km/h despite all the pollution and general danger, and will take about the same amount of time as commuting by bicycle - a cycling network will make it a lot faster. Alas, amidst the political dramas, crooked bureaucrats and the real-estate mafia, I doubt we'll get serious town-planning in the next 20 y.

taude 5y ago

Bikes are a pretty big part of Italian transport, or at least more so than any other place I've been other than Amsterdam. My girlfriend lived in a small town about 1.5 hours outside of Milan for a year, and was surprised by the bike path system that linked all the towns together around Lake Garda, and how old some of the people were who were riding to visit friends and family. Literally, age wasn't a reason to not ride a bike on these safe bikeways.

mdrzn 5y ago
Italian here: good weather, bikes are kinda cheap, why wouldn't you bike often? The more you bike, the better the infrastructure gets around you.
- Tade0 5y ago
  Bike theft. When I lived in Bologna it was so rampant that there was a place where you could assemble a bike for free out of the parts left by thieves, picked up by the cleaning services. Then again Bologna isn't particularly large. I never had a need to cycle there. I would either walk or drive and occasionally use public transport.
martopix 5y ago
I don't quite agree. I mean yes, we use bikes, but Milan is one of the most car-heavy cities I've seen in Europe. There are cars everywhere, parked on tram stops, parked in the middle of the road, etc. It sucks, and I definitely don't feel safe cycling. What you say holds for smaller towns. In my hometown 40 km from Milan I never needed a car nor a bus. (However as soon as you need to go to the next town you need a car.)

martopix 5y ago

Milan and other large Italian cities have a terrible car-centric culture. In Rome this is more justified because public transport sucks. In Milan, I don't get it. I will believe this kind of change only when I see it.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> In Milan, I don't get it Italian from Rome living in Milan for 8 years now. The explanation is simple: transport of goods _and_ a lot of people coming from Monza/Brianza area to work in Milan and back home in the evening. Crazy at it seems, they prefer to use their cars over the (frankly terrible) regional trains, that in theory can do Monza-Milan in 10 minutes, but in practice most of the times are late, overcrowded or canceled, with no warnings. There's also a lot of traffic between Milan and San Donato Milanese where a lot of large companies have their own old school giant offices with thousands of employees (Eni, for example) .

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

TBF the new biking lane in Viale Monza sucks big time. Also: you can make how many bike lanes you want, they will never make biking in the cold comfortable, especially for people that are not used to it. A lot of people living in Milan come from warmer weathers. So the main users of bike paths are riders delivering food with their e-bikes and/or tier scooters. EDIT: I've been living in Milan for 8 years, i live where the new bike lane is, it's 100% a design by committee [1], that it's so bad that sometimes it runs on the right of public transports, so when the bus has to stop, the bikes run into the people getting off, some other times it runs on the left of the bus stop, so when the bus has to stop it needs to cross over the bike lane, which is as dangerous as you might think. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee

agos 5y ago
the new biking lane in Viale Monza is the greatest thing to happen to Viale Monza since the metro. with "warmer weathers" are you referring to southern Italy? because the same riders you said are using the bike lanes are coming from actually warmer weathers (like western Africa) and if they manage to bike around all evening in January maybe a person from Puglia can commute without big issues. and the main safety issue with that bike lane (or any other bike lane in this city) is people who treat it as a parking spot or a car lane, not the occasional bus

jsinai 5y ago

This is great news to see. I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in Milan. It is one of my favourite cities, although the pollution is noticeable. Something else I’m hoping this plan will improve is noise pollution. Thanks to the ubiquitous Milan is one of the noisiest cities I’ve been in. One thing I’m curious to know is how the cobble stones will be handled. Some of those circular routes have cobbled sections. They remain for historical reasons, however the vibrations to a cyclist would be jarring.

mdavis6890 5y ago

Glad to see they're making an attempt, and I hope it works out well, but there is a big difference between talking about something that will (might, we hope) get done in the future, VS something that has already been accomplished that one can feel proud of. I look forward to seeing if this can make the transition from the former to the latter. Also, major yellow flag: "The paths will also feature state-of-the-art infrastructure, including low-impact motion-sensor lighting, digital displays, and a network of fibre optic cables, ..." Sounds like exactly the kind of over-engineering and over-specing that plagues these kinds of projects.

ryzvonusef 5y ago

the real competition for bike paths will be for normal unpowered bikes and slow pedal-assist ebikes competing with fast throttle "ebikes" and electric scooters/mopeds. The fast bikes are still not fast enough and safe enough to ride with cars, but too fast for regular bike paths, so what will give?

giraffe_lady 5y ago
The role those fill isn't that different from scooters, which are common in a lot of places. The traditional solution is to let them crowd the road, slowing car traffic and incentivizing using more scooters and other vehicles better able to navigate the congestion. I am genuinely sincerely in favor of this. It's inelegant but effective. Driving a car should be more frustrating and uncomfortable than it currently is in the US. Giving slight advantages to slower, non-car road traffic can improve safety and increase the costs of driving over other options, which is long term good.