26 ms·
The Charles Mingus CAT-alog (1972)
- sesellis 5y agoThere are commercially available kits to do this that are concentric rings that work very well. The kit coupled with flushable litter makes it very easy to toilet train a cat. However, I can confirm you will get into a bathroom stare down with your cat every once in a while.
- ratww 5y agoYou have to teach the cat to close the door.
- k__ 5y agoI'm so happy my cat goes outside to do her business. My last cat used a litter box and when she got old and demented, she would sometimes sleep in the box, so I had to clean her regularly.
- JohnBooty 5y agoPoor baby! Thank you for taking such good care of her into her old age.
- k__ 5y agoYes, her last year was heartb breaking. But at least she had a few good days every week until the end. Seeing that she was able to steal some food from a table when I was out of a room when she was already blind and deaf warmed my heart. 20 years I had her, good times.
- wwwwewwww 5y agoI considered training our cat to do this, but there's a bunch of advice out there saying that it may be harmful to your cat, and may be difficult as the cat gets older. So please consult with your vet before going this route.
- throwawayjd 5y agoI wonder if this is a joke or an actual technique. I'd be very interested to see someone reproducing this.
- xtlyths 5y agoI successfully got 2 middle aged cats to do this. They have both since passed and I have two new cats. I haven't bothered to train them, but I think it's because my wife cleans their box and I haven't thought about it. The first two cats did this almost effortlessly. They didn't give us any trouble because we changed steps slowly.
- chairmanmow 5y agoI believe you, sounds like a bit of a bother to train the new cats as well. Makes me wonder though if once one cat was trained, if you got a new kitten whether it could pick up the behavior from the trained older cat. That'd be pretty great - the gift that keeps on giving.
- shimonabi 5y agoIt's not a joke. I've never tried it, but I've seen plastic products selling on the internet that replace the cardboard.
- ludamad 5y agoCats exist that do this, and I haven't seen anything implausible from a cat psychology standpoint. Seems legit. Dogs can too
- shigawire 5y agoI've always been intrigued but the risk/reward seems too high. I don't want to mess with the bathroom habits of my cat who has never previously relieved himself outside his box. I scared to try to fix what isn't broken at this time.
- LNSY 5y agoI love Mingus. The Watts Towers complex has a museum to Mingus attached, as well as another museum of local artists attached. I'd highly recommend a visit. It's a beautiful neighborhood full of very nice people.
- xbar 5y agoAs if I didn’t have enough reasons to love Mingus. Thanks for the museum suggestion. I haven’t been to the towers since 1979 when I made my parents take me after they played in a tennis tournament at USC while I hung out at the Boys and Girls Club in the nearby park.
- viach 5y agoSimilar to how one gets a backend developer working on "full-stack" - by slowly moving tasks context.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y agoI think I just realized that my wife has been doing this to me for years. Eh, I respect her game.
- kaashif 5y agoAppreciating the full stack rather than just focusing on the backend is very important to a marriage.
- drakonka 5y agoThere are even special litter boxes sold that are intended to go on the toilet seat for this type of training. But as cool as this is, I believe it can be dangerous, especially for owners of male cats. Cats' urinary habits are important to keep an eye on. A change in urination volume or frequency can be the sign of a critical issue that requires veterinary attention. You just can't easily track urine volume if the cat is going to the toilet, even if they don't flush. With a litterbox, you can get an idea of what their normal clump size is and notice if that changes. Regarding frequency, maybe you can hear your cat jump on the toilet, but I'm not sure it's as reliable as hearing them repeatedly scratching the litterbox. If you are out during the day and come home, with a litterbox you still notice the pee clumps to get an idea of how much they've peed - unlike with a toilet. One aspect where the toilet may actually be better is that you _might_ be able to spot blood easier in the water. I also wanted to train my first cat to use the toilet, until he suffered from a urinary blockage as a kitten. If he'd been using the toilet, I likely wouldn't have noticed that anything was wrong until it was far too late. Blockage is more likely in male cats, and it is _not_ an uncommon problem. It is already far too easy to not notice if a cat is blocked if you're not careful, and it doesn't take long at all to become life threatening. I believe a toilet would only exacerbate this risk. If I see blood in the litter, no clumps, or clumps that are smaller than usual (or heck, even much bigger than usual), I know to pay extra attention to my cat and either book a vet appointment or go to the emergency room. It's allowed me to catch bouts of infection, crystals, and idiopathic cystitis early (all of which he is now more prone to after his initial urinary problems). A cat's kidneys and urinary system can also be impacted by stress levels, with unexplained straining and bladder inflammation thought to be in some cases caused by stress. Having them pee in a toilet in my opinion decreases visibility of a very important and sensitive health factor.
- ModernMech 5y ago> One aspect where the toilet may actually be better is that you _might_ be able to spot blood easier in the water. One thing that's cool is there are special cat litters now that change color when blood is present.
- oneplane 5y agoThis is one of those things I thought of as well. A pet generally won't know how healthy it is or if it feels unwell why it does so. What you can do as a pet owner is monitor behaviour and check what goes in (food, water) and comes out (poop, urine, vomit) as a basic indication of health.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y agoLol! Wholesome tutorial! Reminded me of how we tend to forget that even the most outstanding people are just as ordinary as we are. When at home, legendary jazz musician Charles Mingus is just an ordinary guy, training his cat to use the toilet.
- xattt 5y agoWho does the flushing?
- donkarma 5y agoapparently the cat can learn to flush if the cat hits it by accident
- swader999 5y agoMy cat learned how to turn on the tap nearly wrecking the well. Now he's an outdoor cat. Seems happier too.
- ratww 5y agoSome cats learn to flush, which is absolutely nuts, but it happens.
- analog31 5y agoI've heard that if the cat learns to flush, it will flush your toilet all day because it's fun.
- swader999 5y agoKids do this and cats are smarter.
- Nextgrid 5y agoYou could technically automate it. Training the cat is the hard part. Detecting that a cat (or frankly, anything else) is on the toilet is easy with some electronics.
- ubermonkey 5y agoGiven that the strip is now (ouch) almost 19 years old, it occurs to me that some folks may not have seen Nightlife Mingus' appearance in the web comic Achewood: http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=06202003 http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=06202003
- boondaburrah 5y agoMan look at that early 2000s simple text-based web header & web design.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 5y agoIt often strikes me that nothing has aged as well as solid colour backgrounds/widgets when it comes to user interfaces. If you'd told me this site was made in 2021 I'd believe you. Another example that comes to mind is the intro screen at the start of The Running Man, crisp white text on a red background. Looks as modern as the day it was made: https://i.imgur.com/wCRSDK0.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/wCRSDK0.jpeg I wish I could extrapolate from this to figure out what else will age well when designing UIs.
- kevinmchugh 5y agoThis is the strangest intersection of my interests I've ever experienced.
- intricatedetail 5y agoThen a cat does "business" in whatever that triggers similar response as toilet e.g. your shoes, pots etc. It's also not fun cleaning the cat that fallen into toilet bowl (and all the splashings around).
- jelling 5y agoThat's cat's balance is the key here. I tried this with a hairless cat - whom also have very little in the way of whiskers - and the poor thing just didn't have the balance to handle the final steps.
- saluki 5y agoOur neighbor when I was growing up had a cat that would use the toilet and flush. I was amazed as a kid. Not sure I want to share the bathroom with our cats. We just got a litter robot last week it's pretty amazing. We set it up in a hall closet to get the two litter boxes out of the laundry room. It should pay for itself in 3-4 months by using less litter than our two traditional litter boxes (yesterdays news litter).
- jakebasile 5y agoI've been looking at getting an automatic cleaning litter box for a while now. Would you mind recommending the type that you bought if you are so happy with it?
- drakonka 5y agoI've had a Litter Robot for nearly a year and also really like it (wrote a more detailed review here[0]), although it's definitely not perfect. Mine is the Litter Robot 3 with the WiFi functionality (lets me keep an eye on how often they go even when I'm not home). I do believe the price isn't worth it for _most_ people, but do not regret the purchase. [0] https://liza.io/litter-robot-3-review/ https://liza.io/litter-robot-3-review/
- jakebasile 5y agoThanks for the review. Would you say it cuts down on smell? That is my biggest issue with cat ownership and I've been looking for ways to further reduce it (beyond better litter, baking soda, etc.). Edit: Thanks for all the replies. I am still on the fence about it, and may try further options to reduce the smell (at least enough so that a cat-person like myself can live with it ;))
- drakonka 5y agoI wouldn't say it cuts down on smell, unfortunately. In fact, it has the potential to make it worse, since the waste is gathered in a bin for longer periods of time (as opposed to flushable litter in a normal box). There is a carbon filter that sits on one end of the tray to help minimize scent, but it's not very effective in my experience. I'm currently experimenting with putting various nicely-scented objects in that tray, in front of the filter (like those little scent blocks you can hang on the side of your toilet bowl, for example). The scent will also largely depend on the cat's digestive system. My cats tend to not have very smelly or soft feces so it's not bad at all, but if one of them gets diarrhea you bet I'm emptying that litter bin right away. Likewise, if a guest is coming over I'd probably suggest emptying the litter bin beforehand just in case. I know you already know of better litter and baking soda tricks, but there is a powder you can purchase and sprinkle into litter, which gives off a fresh scent. I found using it also helps, as does sprinkling some of it into the bottom of the litter tray itself (into the litter waste bin). I don't have the name of it on hand, but I think there are a few brands out there that are pretty common. Edit: the _majority_ of the time there is no smell I can easily detect until I open the tray to remove the garbage. But as someone else mentioned, no smell to a cat person may not be a reliable gauge.
- jokoon 5y agoI wonder if animal trainers have tested this method again and again. I suspect that not all cat will be able to be trained like this.
- darksaints 5y agoI've seen this tutorial almost word for word before, and I even know a few people who have trained their cats using this method. It wasn't until today that I realized that this was method was created by one of the most famous jazz musicians in the world (and IMO the best bass player that ever lived).
- password1 5y agoLinus from LinusTechTips did a series of videos on how he trained his cats to do this: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiNYRHLggAj39fRHaUYE42D2vtxuhBkiM https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiNYRHLggAj39fRHaUYE42D2v...
- ratww 5y agoI have a friend who never trained their cats for that, yet the two cats seem to prefer the toilet. The cats even have two spacious litter boxes away from food and noise. Every time I go to his house my friend reminds me to put the lid down after using so the cats don't use it.
- Nextgrid 5y agoOut of curiosity, why would he not want them to do that? Seems very convenient and saves on cleaning the litter box manually.
- ratww 5y agoI know, right? I have asked him, telling how convenient it was, but he just felt puzzled, my guess is that he hasn't thought this trough! Or he's afraid the cats could fall down or something...
- foreigner 5y agoHas anybody managed to teach this to a dog?
- iainctduncan 5y agoFor folks who are like "who is that guy again?".... Mingus was one of the most important jazz bass players in 20th century and a key figure in both bebop and free jazz. And quite a character. This is but one of his legendary achievements!
- AlbertCory 5y agoIndeed, and how could I resist reading an article with that title?
- noman-land 5y agoNot just a bass player but a legendary composer. Here's one of my absolute faves, Pithecanthropus Erectus. https://youtu.be/p0H2G_W-O0I https://youtu.be/p0H2G_W-O0I
- jbigelow76 5y agoI got into Charles Mingus through "Mingus Plays Piano", I particularly like piano jazz when working, but any bop oriented jazz is good. Newcomers should give "Myself When I Am Real" a listen, it's a lovely composition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk71dhCz7wM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk71dhCz7wM
- noman-land 5y agoAbsolutely beautiful album, and Myself When I Am Real is one of the best tracks. The whole record has little bits of studio talk before and after some of the recordings and you can hear Mingus feeling really shy and vulnerable playing alone. You can even hear it in his playing, I think. Pretty remarkable. Love that guy.
- amongwhales 5y agoLove Myself When I Am Real and Black Saint. But I had trouble finding other songs as enjoyable. Is there anything else similar in his catalog?
- hmahncke 5y agoExcellent use of adaptive learning, zone of proximal development, etc.
- pcj-github 5y agoOur cat spontaneously unlocked this achievement at about 5 years of age... We heard a little noise in the bathroom for a couple weeks and could not figure it out until we actually caught her in the act. Hilarious, and quite convenient!
- Pixelbrick 5y agohttp://achewood.com/index.php?date=06232003 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=06232003
- koalaman 5y agoI left my cat alone in the house for a few days with my housekeeper popping in to feed and entertain him. He had a little over 2 day spell on his own at the end when my housekeeper couldn't come in. When I arrived home I discovered that our housekeeper had accidentally closed off the door accessing his litter box. I searched the house looking for the mess but couldn't find anything.. until I went to the bathroom and found that he had taken upon himself to use the toilet. He's definitely gone up in my esteem since. All to say that some cats don't need any kind of training to use the toilet.
- jaxn 5y agoDid they continue using the toilet after that?
- koalaman 5y agoNope. As long as the litter is around he uses it and I've been reluctant to remove it in case using the toilet stresses him out.
- JohnBooty 5y agoThis is true. My cat definitely pees in the sinks and bathtubs sometimes even when his litter is fresh. He poops in the litter with no issues, so I don't think it's a location problem. My best educated guess is that he simply finds the sinks more convenient than hiking down to the basement. I have no doubts that he would pee in the toilet as well, but I can't leave the toilets open because we have dogs around. (Although, now that I'm typing this, I suppose we could install cat-doors on the bathroom doors to let the cat in, and keep the dogs out...) The sink/bathtub peeing is definitely gross and not ideal. But, not as gross as it sounds. He very very precisely pees directly down the drain. The smell is almost unnoticeable. So unnoticeable that it took us a lot of time to figure out he was even doing it, since he sometimes pees in the box as well. The main danger to him peeing in the sinks is that it will make it difficult for us to know if he has a blockage as we can not monitor his urine output. (I am not "noseblind" to cat pee smell, as far as I can tell. The litterbox is in the basement and if I neglect to clean it on a given day and there is pee in there, I can smell it from upstairs. I've also asked trusted people like my brother to verify there's no cat pee smell in the house! He's not afraid to give me harsh opinions...)
- nani_o 5y ago
- rectang 5y agoCool cat. I love how Mingus is so in tune with how his cat (Nightlife) thinks, sensing how to encourage him, how to avoid freaking him out, how to lead him along. Some of Mingus's best known works (Mingus Ah Um, Black Saint and The Sinner Lady, etc.) are organized group improvisations, with multiple wind instruments playing improvised lines at once. It's different from big bands like Ellington's where you have featured soloists and everybody else playing charts (even if the rhythm section does some improvising), and it's difficult to achieve balance of the various elements under such circumstances. I get a sense from this article how Mingus manages to get inside the heads of his collaborators, to keep their trust, and lead them towards a shared vision.
- dang 5y agoAnybody want to take a shot at figuring out the year?
- pvg 5y ago1972 it looks like, from googling the better original title The Charles Mingus Cat-alog https://www.topospress.com/collections/prints-and-ephemera/products/charles-mingus-cat-alog https://www.topospress.com/collections/prints-and-ephemera/p... https://www.schoolforthedogs.com/podcasts/episode-96-the-charles-mingus-cat-alog-for-toilet-training-your-cat-1972/ https://www.schoolforthedogs.com/podcasts/episode-96-the-cha...
- dang 5y agoThanks! I've changed the title (from "Charles Mingus Cat Toilet Training Program").
- ramy_d 5y agoDoes toilet training your cat introduce a significant health hazard through toxoplasma gondii into the surrounding environment? It's so hard to tell if your local wastewater plant takes care of this...
- nickkell 5y agoI could have sworn I read something to this effect, that this is ill advised because waste treatment plants aren’t really equipped to handle animal parasites
- WickyNilliams 5y agoYeah this is my understanding. Sewage treatment cannot destroy toxoplasmosis
- subpar 5y agoWhile we're talking about Mingus, don't sleep on his mind-blowing eggnog recipe. I try to make it every year... a beautifully alcoholic act of improvisation: https://www.charlesmingus.com/blog/news/minguss-5-star-rapturous-deadly-holiday-eggnog-3-jl95e https://www.charlesmingus.com/blog/news/minguss-5-star-raptu...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mthom 5y agoThe cat that pamphlet is about, Nightlife Mingus: http://achewood.com/?date=06202003 http://achewood.com/?date=06202003
- WickyNilliams 5y agoFunny story: I knew someone who trained their cat to do this. It was all going well, the cat had been using the toilet successfully for a number of weeks. That is, until the cat fell in the toilet one time. From then on it refused to use the toilet, but had become accustomed to going in the bathroom... So the cat started popping in the bath. And no matter what he tried he couldn't stop the cat from doing this. At least the story is funny from the outside perspective. Perhaps less so if it was your bath and your cat haha. On a more serious note, I believe it is not advised to put cat poop down the toilet, since our sewage treatment systems are not capable of dealing with toxoplasmosis from cat faeces
- dane-pgp 5y agoDo you think Mingus might actually be infected by a brain-altering parasite that is causing him to betray us? He does sound kinda sus.
- dbreunig 5y agoThe tone and approach here is exactly what I'd expect from a man whose chief complaint as a band leader is that jazz musicians interpret his music too much and classical musicians follow it too literally.
- metabagel 5y agoIf you have a cat which uses the litter box without any problems, count your blessings and call it a day. Having a cat use the toilet is counter to their instincts to bury their business from other animals. If they fall in, they’ll be traumatized and start doing their business in other unpleasant places. I’ve used the litter robot, and honestly I think a plain old litter box is easier to keep clean, and in general better for all parties.
- jsz0 5y agoI'd highly recommend The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady if you want to check out his non-cat related jazz recordings.
- tastysandwich 5y agoI know this article is about his cat-training program, but I can't resist the opportunity... Even if you are not a jazz fan, listen to his record Mingus Ah Um. It is mind-blowingly brilliant. There is just nothing quite like it!
- mycodepedia 5y agoThanks for sharing this post