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PSA do not opt to login with your apple ID, it's an option when setting up the computer, you should never ever accept it. There's no reason to ever accept loggi

by sersi 5y ago

PSA do not opt to login with your apple ID, it's an option when setting up the computer, you should never ever accept it. There's no reason to ever accept logging in with a non-local account (same for Windows but Microsoft is much more persistent in forcing this whereas at least it's relatively easy to not enable it on macs)

parentheses 5y ago
i don’t agree. the conveniences afforded by using my apple id for text messages and phone calls while i’m on my work computer is invaluable. on the other hand the windows id doesn’t ever get me anything of value. caveat: my thumbs hate the tiny keyboard so maybe i am particularly sensitive to this annoyance
- cachvico 5y ago
  I think the implication is that it's Ok to sign in to iCloud after the installation (and enable all the iCloud sync services). But the login account should be local only.
  - microtherion 5y ago
    To the best of my knowledge, it does not make a difference whether you sign in on initial setup or afterward. The difficulties OP was describing, I think, are tied to activating the "Find my Mac" option in iCloud. Once you activate that, you cannot simply log out from iCloud without providing your password. Being able to do so would rather defeat the purpose of "Find my Mac" as a theft prevention mechanism. So if you don't want the issues described, don't opt into "Find my Mac" (Personally, I'm quite fond of the option, but YMMV).
- tw04 5y ago
  >i don’t agree. the conveniences afforded by using my apple id for text messages and phone calls while i’m on my work computer is invaluable. You don't need to login to the laptop with your Apple ID to do that, you just need to put your account into messenger.
- hobs 5y ago
  Unless that is a work number that's a big mistake, don't ever expose your personal text messages and phone calls to your employer - its a huge legal problem.
  - rectang 5y ago
    Fully agree. I always create employer-specific IDs — Apple, GSuite, Github, and so on. It typically starts from a company email address and fans out. It confounds me how many of my colleagues don't do this. But when I explain my reasoning, nobody has complained. I understand that Apple requires its own employees to use personal IDs, which is really messed up. That organizational design flaw probably contributes to situations like the one we're discussing, since it might seem abnormal to an Apple person that someone would be associated with multiple IDs.
    - sgerenser 5y ago
      Apple does not require you to use your personal ID on your company laptop, but they do require you to use a non-@apple.com email for an iCloud account (only really needed for Find My Mac, but you’re allowed to use other iCloud features if desired). Many people for expediency just use their personal account, but after various high profile issues in the news many have realized it’s worth the hassle of creating a second account (e.g. myname.work@icloud.com).
      - _rs 5y ago
        I wonder what Apple’s explanation/justification for this is?
        hobs 5y ago
        Operating by fiat? Because they can.
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        One of the account recovery methods is to request that Apple email you an "unlock my iCloud account" web link. If they were to send that email to your locked iCloud account, you wouldn't be able to receive it.
- cjcampbell 5y ago
  Apple doesn’t make it clear, but you can still get this without using the AppleID to log into your device. When setting up, create a local account first. You’ll have an opportunity to later log into your AppleID for use with messages, FaceTime, App Store, etc. You can also switch to a local sign in account after the fact. This may have changed in recent versions, but try going to system preferences and selecting to reset your password. You should see an option to switch to a local account for sign in, which will only impact the log in process. You’ll still be able to keep your id associated for all of the other benefits.
  - stouset 5y ago
    What on Earth are you talking about? I have set up several MBPs from factory over the past ten years and it hasn’t ever been apparent to me that you could use your AppleID to log in locally. I’ve attached every single one of these devices to my AppleID for iCloud but none of them have used anything but local credentials to sign in. And it’s been far from hard to do. It was—as best as I can tell—the normal setup path.
    - agrunyan 5y ago
      Regardless of what the author of the post you’re replying to said, there’s no need to strike such a needlessly condescending tone.
      - copperx 5y ago
        People ought to be allowed to have a personality.
        mynameisvlad 5y ago
        People ought to realize they're talking to other people, as well, not cardboard cutouts with names like "mynameisvlad". It's not hard to have a personality without being condescending.
        5y ago
dreamcompiler 5y ago
100% this. I've set up several new Macs lately. It's essential to skip any step that asks you to provide an AppleID unless you want a world of hurt. If you want iCloud or Apple Music you can set those up with your AppleID later (I cannot imagine wanting iCloud but that's just me).
- zibzab 5y ago
  What kind of stupidly is this? Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?
  - emerongi 5y ago
    It could be the other way around: Microsoft hired the Apple guy and let them run wild.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      To my knowledge, Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. You just skip any step referencing a cloud account during setup. This is not true of Microsoft. >Windows 10 users are annoyed that Microsoft has hidden the local account option when setting up a new PC or reinstalling Windows 10. A user on a popular Reddit thread notes that the local account option is now invisible if the device is connected to the internet. https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsoft-wheres-our-local-account-option-gone/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsof...
      - inetknght 5y ago
        > Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. I would argue that making the use of cloud services be the default forces users who aren't aware that it's optional and especially when they don't know that there *are* real downsides to using it.
        GeekyBear 5y ago
linsomniac 5y ago
I believe they changed this in the last 6 months or year, but if you have an older ISO if Windows 10, and you don't have it connected to the Internet when you install, you can create a local account during installation.
- jagger27 5y ago
  There has always been a tiny skip button as well.
  - ugjka 5y ago
    I read somewhere on Win 11 you have to Alt+F4 out to get local account
    - veleek 5y ago
      I’m totally in agreement that they shouldn’t hide the option to create a local account, but I’m relatively sure this isn’t true. It’s entirely possible that something like this did exist in some earlier installer version but I don’t know that from a vague statement like this. Feels kinda like throwing Windows under the bus unnecessarily.
      - ugjka 5y ago
        > When setting up Windows 11, disconnect your Ethernet cable, and then cross your fingers that you see a "I don't have internet" option when prompted to connect to a network. If you do, that's great, go ahead and click it, and use a local account. However, there is a good chance you won't see the option, as shown in the screen grab above. If that is the case, the folks at Neowin discovered that you can bypass linking to a Microsoft ID by pressing Alt + F4. https://hothardware.com/news/bypass-windows-11-internet-setup-requirement-local-account https://hothardware.com/news/bypass-windows-11-internet-setu...
  - komadori 5y ago
    AFAICR, they've removed the skip button in newer versions of the installer. You have to avoid being connected to the internet to create a local account now.
fy20 5y ago
On Windows you just don't connect to a network when installing, and it'll let you create a local account.
- Zambyte 5y ago
  There shouldn't have to be a workaround. This should simply be the default.
  - TheRealPomax 5y ago
    There is, and it doesn't have to be the default, just easy enough to go "no thanks". Which thankfully it still is. For win11 you just click "sign in options" when prompted how to log in during install, and pick "offline account". Done. For win10, you click "continue with limited setup" during the account step. Of course, this does assume you're installing pro, because no one in their right mind should ever install the home version of windows by choice.
    - coolspot 5y ago
      Having to reinstall W10 on two machines last week, I can assure you that once you connect to wi-fi, option for a local account disappears and can’t be brought back.
      - TheRealPomax 5y ago
        Having done the same three weeks ago: worked fine for me, but then, I did use my windows 10 dvd to install it, not whatever the latest .iso from microsoft is. Then I just ran through the standard "and now we wait for windows update to do its thing for the next few hours". Apparently only install images based on 21H2 won't give you the offline account option anymore.
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        It depends on the release, that's why. On home you need to disconnect the network. On Pro and business the option is always there but it does require a number of clicks.
shawnz 5y ago
As I understand they got rid of the option to log in with your Apple ID in the newest versions of mac OS.
TheRealPomax 5y ago
And that goes for Windows, too. Only ever log into your physical, self contained, machine using a normal user account stored on that machine.
- seabriez 5y ago
  I have computers w/ local accounts and with Microsoft accounts and no issues whatsoever... why ya'll dragging Microsoft into a stupid Apple thing FFS.
walrus01 5y ago
> PSA do not opt to login with your apple ID, it's an option when setting up the computer, you should never ever accept it. It makes me sad that we now have to treat a MacOS initial setup as a hostile experience, the same way as setting up Windows 10 for an offline user account and intentionally not creating a microsoft account. The number of steps and dark pattern UI things a Windows 10 Home or Pro user has to jump through in the initial install to create a local-only account is really quite amazing. I just did a fresh install of a win10 home VM recently and ran into this. Two of the reasons I switched from a FreeBSD desktop environment to MacOS back in the 10.4 days (Tiger?) was because of the switch to the Intel CPUs with the first gen Macbook Pro, and that MacOS had become a fairly refined, polished desktop environment with a CLI, macports, and a decent selection of applications. Not only is apple now hostile but it's actively dangerous and harmful to its users' data, as shown in the example linked in this post, because if you go with the "online" apple account you risk getting locked out of everything you were using on a regular day-to-day basis. Now if we have to think of Apple as a hostile entity that is doing the same shit as microsoft, it makes me very disappointed.
- simonh 5y ago
  You can relax, the option to log in with your iCloud account was removed from Sierra onwards.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- laurent123456 5y ago
  Any company at that size should be thought as a hostile entity - if anything bad happens you're just a drop in the ocean and the company couldn't care less about your issues. Everything should be done in such a way that there's an exit door if things go wrong (Of course that's unfortunately not always possible - eg if you're banned from any app store, that's it for you).
  - schappim 5y ago
    Apple is literally the only tech company I can walk into a store and most of the time get a problem fixed. I can’t say that for any other piece of tech I own.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
One thing that you should also be aware of: on the later Macs (T2 Intel and M1) there is activation lock protection too. This ties the Mac to your Apple ID and it can't be reinstalled without it. Just like an iPhone. It's meant for theft protection but it causes us headaches at work when employees have left and used their personal Apple ID. Apple will disable it but only if you can prove ownership.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
It's amazing that when companies grow beyond a scale, They can even forego basic support channels for even paid customers. At least OP was able to contact Apple support, 1. I couldn't delete my Facebook account because my startup FB page backup isn't getting generated and there's no way to reach the support[1]. 2. LinkedIn has fingerprinted my account login from a particular browser/OS that I'm unable to login via any other browser/OS(In the same network). [1] https://abishekmuthian.com/meta-is-holding-my-facebook-page-hostage/ https://abishekmuthian.com/meta-is-holding-my-facebook-page-...

by sersi 5y ago

parentheses 5y ago

i don’t agree. the conveniences afforded by using my apple id for text messages and phone calls while i’m on my work computer is invaluable. on the other hand the windows id doesn’t ever get me anything of value. caveat: my thumbs hate the tiny keyboard so maybe i am particularly sensitive to this annoyance

cachvico 5y ago
I think the implication is that it's Ok to sign in to iCloud after the installation (and enable all the iCloud sync services). But the login account should be local only.
- microtherion 5y ago
  To the best of my knowledge, it does not make a difference whether you sign in on initial setup or afterward. The difficulties OP was describing, I think, are tied to activating the "Find my Mac" option in iCloud. Once you activate that, you cannot simply log out from iCloud without providing your password. Being able to do so would rather defeat the purpose of "Find my Mac" as a theft prevention mechanism. So if you don't want the issues described, don't opt into "Find my Mac" (Personally, I'm quite fond of the option, but YMMV).
tw04 5y ago
>i don’t agree. the conveniences afforded by using my apple id for text messages and phone calls while i’m on my work computer is invaluable. You don't need to login to the laptop with your Apple ID to do that, you just need to put your account into messenger.
hobs 5y ago
Unless that is a work number that's a big mistake, don't ever expose your personal text messages and phone calls to your employer - its a huge legal problem.
- rectang 5y ago
  Fully agree. I always create employer-specific IDs — Apple, GSuite, Github, and so on. It typically starts from a company email address and fans out. It confounds me how many of my colleagues don't do this. But when I explain my reasoning, nobody has complained. I understand that Apple requires its own employees to use personal IDs, which is really messed up. That organizational design flaw probably contributes to situations like the one we're discussing, since it might seem abnormal to an Apple person that someone would be associated with multiple IDs.
  - sgerenser 5y ago
    Apple does not require you to use your personal ID on your company laptop, but they do require you to use a non-@apple.com email for an iCloud account (only really needed for Find My Mac, but you’re allowed to use other iCloud features if desired). Many people for expediency just use their personal account, but after various high profile issues in the news many have realized it’s worth the hassle of creating a second account (e.g. myname.work@icloud.com).
    - _rs 5y ago
      I wonder what Apple’s explanation/justification for this is?
      - hobs 5y ago
        Operating by fiat? Because they can.
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        One of the account recovery methods is to request that Apple email you an "unlock my iCloud account" web link. If they were to send that email to your locked iCloud account, you wouldn't be able to receive it.
cjcampbell 5y ago
Apple doesn’t make it clear, but you can still get this without using the AppleID to log into your device. When setting up, create a local account first. You’ll have an opportunity to later log into your AppleID for use with messages, FaceTime, App Store, etc. You can also switch to a local sign in account after the fact. This may have changed in recent versions, but try going to system preferences and selecting to reset your password. You should see an option to switch to a local account for sign in, which will only impact the log in process. You’ll still be able to keep your id associated for all of the other benefits.
- stouset 5y ago
  What on Earth are you talking about? I have set up several MBPs from factory over the past ten years and it hasn’t ever been apparent to me that you could use your AppleID to log in locally. I’ve attached every single one of these devices to my AppleID for iCloud but none of them have used anything but local credentials to sign in. And it’s been far from hard to do. It was—as best as I can tell—the normal setup path.
  - agrunyan 5y ago
    Regardless of what the author of the post you’re replying to said, there’s no need to strike such a needlessly condescending tone.
    - copperx 5y ago
      People ought to be allowed to have a personality.
      - mynameisvlad 5y ago
        People ought to realize they're talking to other people, as well, not cardboard cutouts with names like "mynameisvlad". It's not hard to have a personality without being condescending.
        5y ago

dreamcompiler 5y ago

100% this. I've set up several new Macs lately. It's essential to skip any step that asks you to provide an AppleID unless you want a world of hurt. If you want iCloud or Apple Music you can set those up with your AppleID later (I cannot imagine wanting iCloud but that's just me).

zibzab 5y ago
What kind of stupidly is this? Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?
- emerongi 5y ago
  It could be the other way around: Microsoft hired the Apple guy and let them run wild.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    To my knowledge, Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. You just skip any step referencing a cloud account during setup. This is not true of Microsoft. >Windows 10 users are annoyed that Microsoft has hidden the local account option when setting up a new PC or reinstalling Windows 10. A user on a popular Reddit thread notes that the local account option is now invisible if the device is connected to the internet. https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsoft-wheres-our-local-account-option-gone/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsof...
    - inetknght 5y ago
      > Apple has never tried to force a user to use it's cloud services. I would argue that making the use of cloud services be the default forces users who aren't aware that it's optional and especially when they don't know that there *are* real downsides to using it.
      - GeekyBear 5y ago

linsomniac 5y ago

I believe they changed this in the last 6 months or year, but if you have an older ISO if Windows 10, and you don't have it connected to the Internet when you install, you can create a local account during installation.

jagger27 5y ago
There has always been a tiny skip button as well.
- ugjka 5y ago
  I read somewhere on Win 11 you have to Alt+F4 out to get local account
  - veleek 5y ago
    I’m totally in agreement that they shouldn’t hide the option to create a local account, but I’m relatively sure this isn’t true. It’s entirely possible that something like this did exist in some earlier installer version but I don’t know that from a vague statement like this. Feels kinda like throwing Windows under the bus unnecessarily.
    - ugjka 5y ago
      > When setting up Windows 11, disconnect your Ethernet cable, and then cross your fingers that you see a "I don't have internet" option when prompted to connect to a network. If you do, that's great, go ahead and click it, and use a local account. However, there is a good chance you won't see the option, as shown in the screen grab above. If that is the case, the folks at Neowin discovered that you can bypass linking to a Microsoft ID by pressing Alt + F4. https://hothardware.com/news/bypass-windows-11-internet-setup-requirement-local-account https://hothardware.com/news/bypass-windows-11-internet-setu...
- komadori 5y ago
  AFAICR, they've removed the skip button in newer versions of the installer. You have to avoid being connected to the internet to create a local account now.

fy20 5y ago

On Windows you just don't connect to a network when installing, and it'll let you create a local account.

Zambyte 5y ago
There shouldn't have to be a workaround. This should simply be the default.
- TheRealPomax 5y ago
  There is, and it doesn't have to be the default, just easy enough to go "no thanks". Which thankfully it still is. For win11 you just click "sign in options" when prompted how to log in during install, and pick "offline account". Done. For win10, you click "continue with limited setup" during the account step. Of course, this does assume you're installing pro, because no one in their right mind should ever install the home version of windows by choice.
  - coolspot 5y ago
    Having to reinstall W10 on two machines last week, I can assure you that once you connect to wi-fi, option for a local account disappears and can’t be brought back.
    - TheRealPomax 5y ago
      Having done the same three weeks ago: worked fine for me, but then, I did use my windows 10 dvd to install it, not whatever the latest .iso from microsoft is. Then I just ran through the standard "and now we wait for windows update to do its thing for the next few hours". Apparently only install images based on 21H2 won't give you the offline account option anymore.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        It depends on the release, that's why. On home you need to disconnect the network. On Pro and business the option is always there but it does require a number of clicks.

shawnz 5y ago

As I understand they got rid of the option to log in with your Apple ID in the newest versions of mac OS.

TheRealPomax 5y ago

And that goes for Windows, too. Only ever log into your physical, self contained, machine using a normal user account stored on that machine.

seabriez 5y ago
I have computers w/ local accounts and with Microsoft accounts and no issues whatsoever... why ya'll dragging Microsoft into a stupid Apple thing FFS.

walrus01 5y ago

> PSA do not opt to login with your apple ID, it's an option when setting up the computer, you should never ever accept it. It makes me sad that we now have to treat a MacOS initial setup as a hostile experience, the same way as setting up Windows 10 for an offline user account and intentionally not creating a microsoft account. The number of steps and dark pattern UI things a Windows 10 Home or Pro user has to jump through in the initial install to create a local-only account is really quite amazing. I just did a fresh install of a win10 home VM recently and ran into this. Two of the reasons I switched from a FreeBSD desktop environment to MacOS back in the 10.4 days (Tiger?) was because of the switch to the Intel CPUs with the first gen Macbook Pro, and that MacOS had become a fairly refined, polished desktop environment with a CLI, macports, and a decent selection of applications. Not only is apple now hostile but it's actively dangerous and harmful to its users' data, as shown in the example linked in this post, because if you go with the "online" apple account you risk getting locked out of everything you were using on a regular day-to-day basis. Now if we have to think of Apple as a hostile entity that is doing the same shit as microsoft, it makes me very disappointed.

simonh 5y ago
You can relax, the option to log in with your iCloud account was removed from Sierra onwards.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
laurent123456 5y ago
Any company at that size should be thought as a hostile entity - if anything bad happens you're just a drop in the ocean and the company couldn't care less about your issues. Everything should be done in such a way that there's an exit door if things go wrong (Of course that's unfortunately not always possible - eg if you're banned from any app store, that's it for you).
- schappim 5y ago
  Apple is literally the only tech company I can walk into a store and most of the time get a problem fixed. I can’t say that for any other piece of tech I own.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

One thing that you should also be aware of: on the later Macs (T2 Intel and M1) there is activation lock protection too. This ties the Mac to your Apple ID and it can't be reinstalled without it. Just like an iPhone. It's meant for theft protection but it causes us headaches at work when employees have left and used their personal Apple ID. Apple will disable it but only if you can prove ownership.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

It's amazing that when companies grow beyond a scale, They can even forego basic support channels for even paid customers. At least OP was able to contact Apple support, 1. I couldn't delete my Facebook account because my startup FB page backup isn't getting generated and there's no way to reach the support[1]. 2. LinkedIn has fingerprinted my account login from a particular browser/OS that I'm unable to login via any other browser/OS(In the same network). [1] https://abishekmuthian.com/meta-is-holding-my-facebook-page-hostage/ https://abishekmuthian.com/meta-is-holding-my-facebook-page-...