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Introducing the ... Nementor. Part nemesis, all mentor. After they destroy you, they tell you how they did it. Or sometimes they go easy on you when they see yo

Introducing the ... Nementor. Part nemesis, all mentor. After they destroy you, they tell you how they did it. Or sometimes they go easy on you when they see you might get it.

lvncelot 5y ago
Not to be confused with the Mentesis, who will teach you malevolently to get the better of you.
- endymi0n 5y ago
  Spot on actually. I‘ve found that adversarial techniques are underrated in constructive relationships. The times where I was thrown a friendly challenge from peers were gold. I once worked for a mentor of mine using elements of Provicative Therapy and thought zhat was weird… not doubting the effectivity anymore. http://www.provocativetherapy.com/what-is-provocative-therapy/ http://www.provocativetherapy.com/what-is-provocative-therap...
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Internet trolls are the real therapists.
- cpfohl 5y ago
  Isn't this basically Wells 1.0 from the Flash?
laurent92 5y ago
I’m a beginner in management. In 3 years, the only interns who excelled are those whom I told had barely passed the interview and were paid the least. The ones I respected for their initial talent didn’t fully understand their subject matter and, notably, couldn’t do post-deployment customer interviews to check, loop back and reflect on their work. It deeply saddens me because it means saddistic managers obtain better results, and people perform better by being talked down. And that’s not a path I want to take and it’s hard to find the way to both congratulate people and get them to excel at their work (FYI we’re at 35h/week and we don’t do overtime here).
- Scarblac 5y ago
  Or maybe you were just bad at judging their talent or capacity for working hard?
- liminvorous 5y ago
  Some academic once told me that the best phd students tended to get Bs in their honours year, because they didn’t think memorising a textbook was a good use of their time. Is your interview process perhaps over-indexing academic performance or some similarly time wasting achievement?
- fargo 5y ago
  why would you tell anyone that they barely passed an interview and why pay an intern according to interview performance? I think the issue here is not the interns
- rendall 5y ago
  After almost 2 decades in the industry, working at tens of companies in two continents, I can say without any hesitation that the best managers are never sadistic. Within the context of a dysfunctional, fear-driven company, these sadistic techniques might squeeze better performance out of certain workers, but a force of creative, thoughtful, talented, self-motivated workers will work elsewhere. While I have worked in a few dysfunctional, fear-driven companies over the years, I did not see any of them grow or hold onto talent over time. The best companies I've worked at terminate abusive managers if they accidentally hire one. They take kindness and empathy very seriously.
- rvba 5y ago
  Maybe your interview wrong and hire wrong people? Seems that you hire people who are good at bullshitting during the interview, not the ones who are actually good at their job (what is not easy btw, many people are bad at bullshitting and bad at their jobs). Obviously most interns are green, but it seems you get the ones who are good at the interview phase and expect them to read your mind somehow and acquire the skills that.. you dont teach them. Do they know that they are supposed to do the things you want? Are they told how? Also it is pretty funny that after 3 years of management you didnt notice that what all those failed interns have in common is... you.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I believe that would just attract people that satisfy their narcissism with isolated gestures of patronage. The only exception I would see is to set high standards. People always get there if you let them. Many cannot even help themselves, it is like having to climb a mountain. A mentor that can leverage such ambitions and can provide assistance is probably priceless.
dspillett 5y ago
Also a bit like a good personal trainer? You hate them for suggesting burpies/suicide-planks/what-ever-you-hate-most, but you'll go to hell before you admit defeat and refuse to do them as you know you'll be better off in the long run.
- texasbigdata 5y ago
  I've worked with two trainers that work with professional athletes (NFL, etc) and neither took that approach.
  - scubbo 5y ago
    Can you elaborate on their approach?
    - texasbigdata 5y ago
      Not really. Because it's not clear I could see the entire of the athletes programming. Or even the tiny sliver of the coaches programming for the one athletes. We would work out adjacent to each other in an empty gym twice a week and I could observe their workouts. Sorry if that's shirking your question but wouldn't want to overstate and offer something incorrect.
  - Nathanael_M 5y ago
    I think a lot of these are discipline strategies and I'd wager that personal trainers to professional athletes perform as less of an external source of discipline and more of an external brain/workout strategist/source of encouragement, as professional athletes usually already have the discipline/motivation a little under control. Whereas personal trainers (as opposed to professional trainers and more in line with the previous comment's thought of a single nemesis/mentor) would need to be that external source of discipline, as well. Totally guessing here, no experience in the training world whatsoever, feel free to tell me I'm way off base.
SuoDuanDao 5y ago
sounds like the Sith model. Always two there are.
KineticLensman 5y ago
On that note, 'mentor' is almost an anagram of 'torment'

Introducing the ... Nementor. Part nemesis, all mentor. After they destroy you, they tell you how they did it. Or sometimes they go easy on you when they see you might get it.

lvncelot 5y ago

Not to be confused with the Mentesis, who will teach you malevolently to get the better of you.

endymi0n 5y ago
Spot on actually. I‘ve found that adversarial techniques are underrated in constructive relationships. The times where I was thrown a friendly challenge from peers were gold. I once worked for a mentor of mine using elements of Provicative Therapy and thought zhat was weird… not doubting the effectivity anymore. http://www.provocativetherapy.com/what-is-provocative-therapy/ http://www.provocativetherapy.com/what-is-provocative-therap...
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Internet trolls are the real therapists.
cpfohl 5y ago
Isn't this basically Wells 1.0 from the Flash?

laurent92 5y ago

I’m a beginner in management. In 3 years, the only interns who excelled are those whom I told had barely passed the interview and were paid the least. The ones I respected for their initial talent didn’t fully understand their subject matter and, notably, couldn’t do post-deployment customer interviews to check, loop back and reflect on their work. It deeply saddens me because it means saddistic managers obtain better results, and people perform better by being talked down. And that’s not a path I want to take and it’s hard to find the way to both congratulate people and get them to excel at their work (FYI we’re at 35h/week and we don’t do overtime here).

Scarblac 5y ago
Or maybe you were just bad at judging their talent or capacity for working hard?
liminvorous 5y ago
Some academic once told me that the best phd students tended to get Bs in their honours year, because they didn’t think memorising a textbook was a good use of their time. Is your interview process perhaps over-indexing academic performance or some similarly time wasting achievement?
fargo 5y ago
why would you tell anyone that they barely passed an interview and why pay an intern according to interview performance? I think the issue here is not the interns
rendall 5y ago
After almost 2 decades in the industry, working at tens of companies in two continents, I can say without any hesitation that the best managers are never sadistic. Within the context of a dysfunctional, fear-driven company, these sadistic techniques might squeeze better performance out of certain workers, but a force of creative, thoughtful, talented, self-motivated workers will work elsewhere. While I have worked in a few dysfunctional, fear-driven companies over the years, I did not see any of them grow or hold onto talent over time. The best companies I've worked at terminate abusive managers if they accidentally hire one. They take kindness and empathy very seriously.
rvba 5y ago
Maybe your interview wrong and hire wrong people? Seems that you hire people who are good at bullshitting during the interview, not the ones who are actually good at their job (what is not easy btw, many people are bad at bullshitting and bad at their jobs). Obviously most interns are green, but it seems you get the ones who are good at the interview phase and expect them to read your mind somehow and acquire the skills that.. you dont teach them. Do they know that they are supposed to do the things you want? Are they told how? Also it is pretty funny that after 3 years of management you didnt notice that what all those failed interns have in common is... you.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I believe that would just attract people that satisfy their narcissism with isolated gestures of patronage. The only exception I would see is to set high standards. People always get there if you let them. Many cannot even help themselves, it is like having to climb a mountain. A mentor that can leverage such ambitions and can provide assistance is probably priceless.

dspillett 5y ago

Also a bit like a good personal trainer? You hate them for suggesting burpies/suicide-planks/what-ever-you-hate-most, but you'll go to hell before you admit defeat and refuse to do them as you know you'll be better off in the long run.

texasbigdata 5y ago
I've worked with two trainers that work with professional athletes (NFL, etc) and neither took that approach.
- scubbo 5y ago
  Can you elaborate on their approach?
  - texasbigdata 5y ago
    Not really. Because it's not clear I could see the entire of the athletes programming. Or even the tiny sliver of the coaches programming for the one athletes. We would work out adjacent to each other in an empty gym twice a week and I could observe their workouts. Sorry if that's shirking your question but wouldn't want to overstate and offer something incorrect.
- Nathanael_M 5y ago
  I think a lot of these are discipline strategies and I'd wager that personal trainers to professional athletes perform as less of an external source of discipline and more of an external brain/workout strategist/source of encouragement, as professional athletes usually already have the discipline/motivation a little under control. Whereas personal trainers (as opposed to professional trainers and more in line with the previous comment's thought of a single nemesis/mentor) would need to be that external source of discipline, as well. Totally guessing here, no experience in the training world whatsoever, feel free to tell me I'm way off base.

SuoDuanDao 5y ago

sounds like the Sith model. Always two there are.

KineticLensman 5y ago

On that note, 'mentor' is almost an anagram of 'torment'