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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

• naruhodo 5y ago
  I have noticed I tend to procrastinate on a task until the anxiety caused by potentially running late or failing exceeds the anxiety of starting the task.
• beambot 5y ago
  Highly recommend reading about "Structured Procrastination": http://structuredprocrastination.com/ http://structuredprocrastination.com/
• dspillett 5y ago
  This “works” if the someone you promise to that you'll do something, is yourself. I'm a bugger for it. Doing it right now, in fact.
• layer8 5y ago
  For me that happens when there are two or more nontrivial and longer-running tasks at the same time that have a certain level of uncertainty/difficulty associated with them. I can’t really focus on one because the other one is also in the back of my mind worrying me, so I procrastinate to avoid either.
• romwell 5y ago
  >I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2] to social techniques, like body doubling[3]). Here's how ADHD looks for me: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ https://romankogan.net/adhd/ -- if you find yourself scrolling and nodding, maybe get it checked it out, OK? [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction [2] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication [3] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Body%20Double https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Body%20Double
  • hfourm 5y ago
    Good stuff. I have lived with ADHD as long as I remember. Going on and off prescriptions. Adult ADHD has mostly revolved around depression/mood swing cycles of hyper focus and motivation (new interesting project/work, new job) and procrastination, lack of focus, and depression caused by that feeling of know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to. I have some coping techniques and it isn't something I think about all the time. The worst thing about it is that while prescriptions are effective, they are not pleasant and the tolerance you build to them is even worse. I try to balance them (threshold dosages, only using when I really need it) with other techniques.
    • cik2e 5y ago
      There are supplements that eliminate almost all of the negative side-effects of stims. - L-Tyrosine to keep your dopamine levels up. - ALCAR + ALA to reduce neurotoxicity and tolerance formation - Magnesium and Zinc for muscle tension, including jaw clenching if you're prone to that. And for Aderall, you can take Vitamin C at any point to rapidly flush it out of your system. These things are a game-changer for quality of life and sustainability of stimulant medication. For example, with the ALA+ALCAR stack, I don't get any withdrawals when I take breaks. No fatigue, malaise, nothing. I would have given up on adderall a long time ago without these things.
      • fire 5y ago
        Do you have any recs for where to buy ALA and ALCAR from? Reddit seems to recommend nootropicsdepot which I've honestly never heard of before today.
      • omginternets 5y ago
        > And for Aderall, you can take Vitamin C at any point to rapidly flush it out of your system. Is this legit? If so, that’s incredibly useful information! What’s the mechanism? Re neurotoxicity, I believe you are mistaken that amphetamine salts are toxic. I believe this is the case with meth, but not pharmaceutical stims.
    • 5y ago
• beaconstudios 5y ago
  OK, so I used to have this problem, hardcore. Gave me a lot of trouble, I often overcommitted and ran away from tasks - but I've actually solved this problem now. It's not a fun solution, I have to do it every time (for now - the issue itself may fade with time) and it can be stressful, but it works and it isn't uncomfortable for very long. So when I get distressed by a task I've put off, I use mindfulness techniques to stop myself from dissociating (going into my head, criticising myself for not doing it, psychoanalysing myself, other stuff that's not directly related to doing the task) and redirect my focus back to figuring out the first action I can take to progress the task. Thinking about the bigger-picture benefits of completing the task also help (how does completing this task advance goals that I care about?) Once I've figured it out, I continue to use the mindfulness techniques to remain present while I complete said task, only allowing my mind to wander in the direction of thinking more about the practical completion of the task (resolving other unknowns, breaking down big tasks, etc). Once I get this ball rolling the anxiety goes away, but it's hard to start because as TFA says, it comes with a strong repulsive instinct to avoid, procrastinate, do anything but the task that needs doing. You need to overcome that through focusing on the first step and doing it. "One foot in front of the other" as they say. I think it comes from being overwhelmed - either from seeing the task as a complete object rather than breaking it down, not knowing how to advance it, feeling guilty over not having done it in time, or a million other reasons. You can't let being overwhelmed turn into avoidance - you have to confront and resolve the problem that's causing the emotional disturbance.
• thenerdhead 5y ago
  Unlike other comments, I don't think this is always associated to ADHD. Rather, I think this is a natural tendency for the current normal hivemind of always being distracted at work. John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don't have enough time to think about it. Even if we do have a solution in mind, leaving it till the very last minute gives us enough time for other ideas to come up. This seems to be a recurring problem in knowledge work where a large effort that has "deadlines" tends to keep being missed. The cause? Not having enough slack or diffused time to just think. Often it's juggling the task ontop of a thousand others and being constantly distracted.
  • Mezzie 5y ago
    > John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don't have enough time to think about it. Even if we do have a solution in mind, leaving it till the very last minute gives us enough time for other ideas to come up. YES. This is why I don't code as a job; to me, coding is a creative exercise and I just hate doing creative things for a living. (I've supported myself/made money with both development work and fiction writing.) I can't force myself to be creative on a deadline, and if I rush something through without giving my brain enough time to think through it, it bothers me because there might be a better way and I get annoyed if I'm forced to give out work that isn't my best. > Often it's juggling the task ontop of a thousand others and being constantly distracted. Yes. How the hell am I supposed to problem solve if I'm never allowed any time to think or allowed to make mistakes, explore, etc?
    • _notathrowaway 5y ago
      >This is why I don't code as a job What do you do for a living instead?
      • Mezzie 5y ago
• deleted 5y ago
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• aloukissas 5y ago
  I clicked on this waiting to see (interesting) Doom gameplay loops. I was greatly disappointed.
• spawarotti 5y ago
  The funny part is when the person you committed to is yourself.
• hartator 5y ago
  I will read this later.
• shmde 5y ago
  I am more interested in which company the author works for a living. www.synthesis.is Its like a subsidiary for spacex which teaches kids different stuff, it looks quite complicated because its not your average classroom teaching but something more ? Does anyone here have their kids enrolled in it, tell me about their/kids experience ?
• m4tthumphrey 5y ago
  Story of my life. The worst part is once I actually start the task, its usually done in the most enjoyable and timely manner. It's exhausting.
• photochemsyn 5y ago
  Procrastination, definition: "to delay doing something that you should do, usually because you do not want to do it" Should, definition: "used to show what is right, appropriate, etc., especially when criticizing somebody’s actions" Appropriate, definition: "suitable, acceptable or correct for the particular circumstances" I think we're going into circular definitions here. However, it all comes down to motivation, i.e. what's the motive for doing something? Disapproval of one's social group? Disapproval of one's employer? Disapproval of one's customer? Disapproval of one's neighbor? Disapproval of one's self? Uncomfortable question: are the social norms themselves actually healthy or can an entire society be fundamentally sick, such that many of the norms encourage destructive behavior, mental illness, etc.? In which case, certain forms of procrastination (i.e., not conforming to said social norms) can actually be healthy. See: workaholic syndrome.
• treelovinhippie 5y ago
• lostmsu 5y ago
  Because "Doom" in the title was capitalized, I thought the article would be about relaxing loops you could do around Doom maps. What a disappointment.
• qwertox 5y ago
  I have this theory that depression is a result of deadlocked procrastinations.
  • FriedrichN 5y ago
    It may trigger a depression or push you deeper in depression but it certainly isn't the sole cause of depression. edit: and depressed people are also great procrastinators, if getting out of bed seems a chore, then you're not going to be productive.
• copperx 5y ago
  That's me. And still in the same loop after several ADHD medications; this makes me think that it's not something that can be solved by a pill. I hope I can solve this someday. My coping mechanism is to never commit to anything (outside work obligations).
  • romwell 5y ago
    That's me too; and I've also been diagnosed with ADHD last year. Medication[2] does help me quite a bit, but it's not a silver bullet. Have you tried Body Doubling[1]? It works wonders for me. The idea is working alongside others, when everyone is doing their own thing. There are online Zoom and Discord groups that facilitate it (look up Discord Study sessions; and also more at [1]). [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Body%20Double https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Body%20Double [2] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication
  • Mezzie 5y ago
    Have you considered anxiety as a cause? It can cause similar issues but giving it ADHD meds is a BAD TIME.
  • tgaj 5y ago
    That's true. It's important to remember that you need also to "rewire" your brain It's often accustomed to many years of your life without meds. And many of this years were probably hard, full of anxiety and depression. It will take time to change how you think and you subconscious.
  • MiddleMan5 5y ago
    I feel like the medications can make my "doom loops" even harder to avoid. The stimulants make it easier to hyper focus on one task, and feel even less guilt for ignoring the rest of the world. Executive Dysfunction is killing me
  • nelsonic 5y ago
    What system do you use for task tracking/prioritisation?
  • 5y ago
• gatestone 5y ago
  Freedom considered harmful. In olden days, you had less stupid choices in your life. Sure the idle upper class always had this problem.
• Shared404 5y ago
  Oh hey, that's a picture of my life. Anyone have coping mechanisms they can suggest? This is really getting out of hand. So far the best I've been able to do is intake massive portions of caffeine and use the resultant high/numbing of emotion to allow myself to push through. Not the healthiest or most sustainable option.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • bitexploder 5y ago
    There are two broad paths you can explore: (1) learn why your habits are bad and how to fix them through hit and miss self help and therapy until, after a lot of trial and error you find something that works for you. (2) just stop caring at all about the emotions. They aren’t real. It is made up guilt. Not giving a fuck is a super power. Embrace your inner distraction and become a being of pure Internet. I’m sort of kidding, but, sort of not. Maybe check out the new book that’s popular called Atomic Habits, it’s a cool book. I’ve been dealing with ADHD and it’s effects for over two decades, I’ve been there and done that. Ultimately, it requires a lot of difficult fixing of your life loops. There are really specific reasons and habits you probably have that lead to NGTD (Not Getting Things Done). You have to decide if you are going to address them or not. At some high level concept it is choices we are making that fail to steer the ship right. But be kind to yourself, the underlying mechanisms making you do this are deep and not obvious things… you don’t have complete control over them. You must guide your thinking you to a place that makes your not thinking you get it’s shit together.
  • LorentzGauge 5y ago
    I found that understanding the physiology behind the problem helped me best. Refer to this excellent podcast episode from Dr. Huberman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcs2PFz5q6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcs2PFz5q6g
  • ModernMech 5y ago
    I find that the biggest hurdle to getting things done is the context switch. Just getting started is so hard, but after I get started I can keep going until the task is done. So I trick myself and say “I’m not going to do the whole thing tonight, I’m just going to do a single trivial thing.” So I do it. It takes a second. Then I do another. Then something more substantial. And before I know it I’m working in earnest. For instance, if I have to do a sink full of dishes and clean up a whole dinner, I will say “just one dish”. But after one dish the water is hot, the gloves are on, so why not a second dish? Then a third. Before I know it the dishes are done!
• JetAlone 5y ago
  I have to commit to something within the context of an interpersonal relationship of intense, nigh existential importance to me, fight to get it done, and to admit with as much dispassion as possible when I can't do it for some reason or another. That's what seems to work. We tend to be attached but uncommitted, when we need to committed but detached. Otherwise the emotional angst of failure eats away at efforts we know to be weak.
• zquestz 5y ago
  This is a very natural phenomenon. I can definitely relate.
• AussieWog93 5y ago
  I've noticed myself doing things like this, and I think the root cause more than anything is an inability to say no. If you're getting other things done but not some particular task you've agreed to, then that's probably a good indication that the various subconscious processes in your mind have come together and deemed it unviable. These processes evolved for a reason and shouldn't necessarily be ignored (at least, not usually!). Rather than tyrannising yourself into completing every single task asked of you, I think a much healthier way to approach this is to simply stop and ask yourself whether or not it actually makes sense for you to do something before you agree to do it.
  • throwawayboise 5y ago
    This is a good obeservation. The stuff I am slacking on now is stuff that I should have politely declined last year, but didn't.
• intruder 5y ago
  I relate 100%. On work commitments I can usually get it done, or when the stakes are high enough that failing would burn me hard in some way or another. Awful, maybe one way to deal with this is to just admit that's how it is with commitments and just don't do them. I often fear that leads to a life of dullness and regret tho. The alternative is a struggle until the end of our days.
  • throwawayboise 5y ago
    I don't think it's bad to admit that you are "not a burning furnace of ambition" as Norm Macdonald would say, if you really aren't. Most people just go to work and consume entertainment in their spare time. As long as you're not burdening anyone else, who cares?
    • intruder 5y ago
      Yea, it's just hard to come to terms with that. Ambition and success are drilled into us on a daily basis. It's hard to come to terms with maybe not fitting in and how that is okay.
• nso95 5y ago
  The book The Now Habit has helped me
  • copperx 5y ago
    Can you share briefly how it has helped you?
    • eitland 5y ago
      Not GP and hopefully GP might come back too and answer but I think the book is useful to different people in different ways - even if it is a very short book. One idea that stuck with me both for myself and in a team setting: Fear of failure and how it is overcome: at one point the book tells the reader to imagine walking across a 2x4 beam or something laying on the ground, then walking across the same beam between two highrise towers. The first is really simple, the second is something most of us would never do if we could avoid it even if we knew the beam is perfectly safe. Now the author ask the reader to imagine being stuck at the top of the high rise with a fire raging below and coming closer. Most can probably now imagine themselves crossing the beam in some way, if nothing else by sitting on their butts inching themselves across. This is a someone who has a pathological fear of failure when a deadline is looming. Last the author asks the reader to imagine walking the same beam between the same two highrises but now there is no fire and there is a perfect safety net directly below it. Most people could probably do this, many would even enjoy it. This is a challenging job with a "safety net" where failing is safe. I realize Neil Fiore didn't come up with this, this goes further back, see for example https://medium.com/s/radical-spirits/the-man-who-helped-the-beatles-admit-its-getting-better-3ddcf1afbbb3 https://medium.com/s/radical-spirits/the-man-who-helped-the-... ... but the book is were I learned about this example.
    • nso95 5y ago
      Procrastination is usually caused by anxiety and the way we speak to ourselves, and this book is all about addressing that. You can have all sorts of rules and systems, but if you don't treat yourself with positivity and respect none of those will matter. My biggest takeaways are that you should not let work bleed into your leisure time, and you shouldn't base your self worth on your work.
• narrator 5y ago
  The trick I've used to get things done that are extremely hard for me to do because of a mental block of some kind is to somehow involve another person, even if they're just mostly watching. Sounds dumb, but for some reason it works.
  • JetAlone 5y ago
    Because we are relational creatures. To even accomplish a task in a totally isolated state requires it be intrinsically motivated to an outrageous level. Things like a matter of basic survival qualify. I think anything outside of that sphere that we are so motivated to work on beyond a state of half-minded play are rare, obsessive fascinations. EDIT: also after looking at your profile I want to say, I hope your authorship goes well. I hope the reply I've written could even be of help in that endeavor.
• jaw 5y ago
  Reminds me of the tale in this podcast [1] where the guy's desire to avoid a difficult conversation spiraled into totally ghosting his employer for two weeks. It's a really tough tendency to fight. One thing I think is helpful is to acknowledge failure as early as possible. If meeting the deadline would require me to work faster than normal or make some heroic last-minute effort, I've already failed, even if that deadline is still a long way out. Admitting that to myself and others now, so that expectations about the future can be adjusted, is a much smaller blow than admitting it weeks or months down the line. And it means I only have to feel a little flaky and underperformant, rather than super flaky and underperformant and also dishonest. [1] https://80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/depression-anxiety-imposter-syndrome/?fbclid=IwAR3YyIgKum-Rhe4WQi4xf3ESS4u-rraKK6EpjYoOE7CoG2gFrMFbWYckCSg#ugh-fields-014940 https://80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/depression-anxiety-i...
  • mlatu 5y ago
    in my experience, if you tell your boss you're not going to make a deadline, their reaction is not "dont worry" but "yes you will" of course ymmv. had only 5/6 such bosses. the only one that wasnt like that, was not in software but a little shop selling custom built computers and i was a teenager back then, so that might have made it a little easier on me too
    • Insanity 5y ago
      YMMV indeed, I have not encountered that yet, and have definitely missed initial deadlines. But some things help - when giving estimates or timelines, I go through my usual charade of "they are guestimates, usually you should double or triple them, the further out they go the less likely they are accurate etc". Also, I promise I will monitor progress, keep them up to date, and let them know as soon as possible when plans deviate. I also discuss backup plans early (cutting features or pushing back, starting with pilots and tests, etc..) It has worked pretty well for me so far. Not to say it's _just_ about how you handle the situation, you can have a shitty manager, that part is out of your control unfortunately.. :)
• rlt 5y ago
  I suffer from anxiety and procrastinate a lot. I wonder if that’s a common link.
  • dathinab 5y ago
    > I can hardly bear to think about it > to avoid cognitive dissonance > promptly shunt thought of the painful topic back to my deepest mental recesses. > ... This sounds a lot like an anxiety disorder causing more then natural procrastination. I.e. it doesn't sound like "I'm not motivated" but like "I'm too anxious to do it even if I'm motivated".
• wavesquid 5y ago
  In my experience the only way to get these things done is to find a bigger thing to procrastinate about. This hopefully gets you a bit of mileage until there's one thing you really don't want to do; which you can either hand off to someone else to do (possibly at great dollar or favour cost), or fail at.
• jrowen 5y ago
  When I first heard the term "doom scrolling," I thought it was something along these lines. Scrolling some feed or another, past the point when you should have moved on, to avoid confronting these types of tasks for just a bit longer. That to me feels like a much deeper and more terrifying doom than simply reading bad news.
  • _0ffh 5y ago
    It seems to me that doom scrolling is the web equivalent of old TV's zapping phenomenon, where people just keep cycling through the stations in the hope that on some channel something interesting will pop up, sooner or later.
    • piva00 5y ago
      It feels the same, talking with my therapist she summarised it to me with a question: "is that a feeling like wanting to eat something that doesn't exist?" and since then I kept that in my mind. I doom-scroll/TV-zap usually without even knowing what I want, I just want something that will satisfy this "food that doesn't exist" appetite. I hate it.
• cipheredStones 5y ago
  I spent about a third of 2021 more or less consumed by this phenomenon. In my case it was triggered by job searching: I quit my existing position, intending to do a leisurely search over a few months... and then avoided nearly everything related to the job search for over four months. (While still experiencing a ton of stress as a result of constant anxiety and guilt about it.) Once I actually started, I landed an amazing new position within two months. The thing that made the difference for me was directly and consistently involving my girlfriend. All she did most of the time was sit in the same room as me, working on her own stuff, but some combination of being unable to completely avoid working while she was there, having her there to vent anxiety to, and being able to make commitments to her rather than myself made an enormous amount of difference. I'm not thrilled with myself for the procrastination I did in the first place, but I'm taking it as a hard-won lesson: doing difficult things can be vastly easier if you have someone you trust as support and confidant.
  • jacquesm 5y ago
    What really gets me is that if I push stuff off and then finally get around to it how little time it usually takes to deal with the thing I've been putting off. I'm quite capable of spending 3 days to avoid 10 minutes of concentrated hard work. Very frustrating.
    • VBprogrammer 5y ago
      Honestly, having seen some of what you have done in the past, it seems almost absurd to think of you struggling with procrastination.
      • jacquesm 5y ago
        That's an interesting observation: yes, I do get stuff done, in the end. But the path to it is usually long, torturous and leads along many places that weren't the destination along the way and plenty of that could be avoided. And quite a few of my achievements are probably the result of procrastinating on something else! I wonder how the real achievers (Fabrice Bellard?) deal with these sort of things. And also: what I need to do makes all the difference. Work on my bike: Present! Work on the company VAT reporting? Oh, I think I need to go play some piano. Hm, interesting bug in pianojacq, I should fix that. Hm, even more interesting, this allows me to refactor that bit. Then, on the 29th of the month I will work on the VAT filing.
• Tepix 5y ago
  Pair programming can be a solution. Your employer may fear you are slower than on your own but in reality it will vastly increase your productivity and make you feel better at the same time. Also the result will often be better than what you would have eventually achieved by yourself.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • argc 5y ago
    I have found this works insanely well for me.
    • pydry 5y ago
      Me also, which is why it threw me immensely when I joined a team where they're somewhat dismissive of pairing. I realized that I'd been using it as a sort of crutch for a while. It not only motivated me it drew me out of my shell. It made me more willing to reach out to people i needed coz i was already in a "social mindset". It also made it easier to assess and take risks as a pair. Whereas alone I become somewhat risk averse and asocial.
  • jp42 5y ago
    This worked incredibly well in my experience for debug sessions.
    • ojl 5y ago
      Yes definitely. I had quite a long a period of procrastination a while ago, then suddenly a colleague called and asked me to help debug some issue he had problems with. That day the time went very quickly and we solved the problem together. I felt a lot better afterwards, not only because the problem was solved but also felt so productive. Sometimes I need a trigger like that to get out of procrastination mode.
• Apocryphon 5y ago
  I am reminded of the concept of "deep procrastination" by Cal Newport. He's written about it in a handful of articles from a decade ago, rather disappointing that the concept hasn't caught on and isn't talked around more. It sounds a lot like burnout- either a cause or a symptom of it. > Deep procrastination is a distressing affliction. Students who suffer from it lose the ability to start school work. Deadlines pass and they hand nothing in. Professors provide special extensions, but the students still can’t bring themselves to do the work. And so on. > One way to understand deep procrastination, therefore, is as a rejection of an ambiguous, abstract answer to the key question of why you’re going through the mental strain required by the college experience. https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2011/07/15/how-to-cure-deep-procrastination/ https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2011/07/15/how-to-cure-deep-... His solutions involve mindset refocusing (diving into the why's of the goal that is being procrastinated on), which I think I've seen in another anti-procrastination guide posted somewhere on HN before recently, and seem to be a bit cursory. The other two blog entries about it: https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2009/02/16/the-danger-of-deep-procratination/ https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2009/02/16/the-danger-of-dee... https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2010/04/29/the-upside-of-deep-procrastination/ https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2010/04/29/the-upside-of-dee...
• asxd 5y ago
  I had this issue with my first software job right out of college. I was unproductive for weeks, just due to culture shock and (shamefully) malaise. The procrastination snowballed. Luckily a fellow engineer eventually noticed, sat down with me, and recognized exactly what was going on. In the kindest way possible, he sat down behind me and basically made me finally start my next project. He stayed there with me for the rest of the day, answering and asking questions to keep my progress going. It had quite an impact on me. Having another person involved and actively care about my work went a long way.
  • fudged71 5y ago
    FYI this is called "Body Doubling" in the ADHD world, and there are services offering this.
    • projektfu 5y ago
      I didn't know that. I once hired someone to do that but didn't know it had a term, or that it was common, or that you could find a service when you needed it.
  • sshine 5y ago
    That's an amazing experience report. I remember teaming up with a former colleague at a point where their SRI had just kicked in, and my motivation was down the drain. I felt they were doing me a huge favor, and they felt the same way back. Pair programming is, so far, the only certain cure to my procrastination. I'll certainly work when not pair programming, but pair programming will make me give 100% for 12+ hours simply because of the commitment to another person, and the reward of continuous socialising.
    • wffurr 5y ago
      What does "SRI" mean in this context?
      • data_ders 5y ago
• gexla 5y ago
  I'm convinced that procrastination is a rats nest of things which is constantly changing shape and that nobody can give you advice for your unique situation. Getting past procrastination is like hitting a plateau in a gym and everyone just gives general advice on how to get bigger. Maybe the answer is that you have to change things up to shock your body past the plateau. Maybe getting past procrastination is shocking your brain with a frame which puts you in a situation where you're not settling towards some sort of rot. Seems like we get into this rut in most things in life.
• eitland 5y ago
  I have plenty to do but the last few years I've done a smart thing to avoid this for smaller tasks: If someone comes with a small request that I want to help them with I do two things: 1. make sure following up on it is their responsibility. I'll do it, not be PM for it. 2. for really small things, bring it to my house at a time we agree on and wait until it is done. Nothing gets left here for me to look at "whenever I have time" because I never have. If it is important they come to my house and wait until it is done.
  • MandieD 5y ago
    Just wanted you to know that you've made my life a bit better today. "I'll do it, not be the PM for it" -> a great, more positive rephrasing of what I often tell people for this sort of thing: "please bother me until I get back with you about it." And the second is a brilliant filter for how much someone truly needs/wants something "small".
    • eitland 5y ago
      Now you made my lunch better. Thanks!
• periheli0n 5y ago
  So many people suffer from this. I guess most of us had at least stretches in their career where procrastination dominated the work day. For some, this is just the standard mode of operation. It is important to understand that this is a sign of exhaustion. Work is hard and if we don't have the energy to start then it doesn't get done. Personally I found the following to help: 1) Get enough sleep. Every day. Nothing drains your energy more than consistently not getting enough sleep. 2) Cultivate interaction with other people outside work, in person. This is particularly important now. Talking with others and listening to their little problems can help put your perceived misery in context. So does having a life outside work. 3) Say "No" more often. Focus on the tasks that need to be done to meet your life goals. Decline the tasks that look interesting or even fascinating when they don't help you move forward.
  • torh 5y ago
    Not sure if it makes sense, but after the christmas holidays I made a bad habbit of sleeping to much, which also made me tired. So, get enough sleep, but not too much. Don't start another sleep cycle.
    • pure_simplicity 5y ago
      Maybe a wakeup light would be helpful. really helps you feel awake if you dont feel very awake when you get up, so you are not tempted to sleep some more in the morning.
• cttet 5y ago
  I share the same problem for a very long time and the situation gets worse as I grow up. But recently at least I have more understanding of my problem on this. The most important thing I want to share with you is that: Not most of things online are not useful to people like me, because the people are different. A lot of advices can be misleading too.(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU) this one especially. Because for different people, the procrastination experience is very different. If you have the same issue as me, the core problem is not actually about planning and decision making. It is about my ability to do things. It's a long essay but I will put the essence here: To some of the people (about half the population as I estimate), there are two way to obtain knowledge, one is learning, the other is training. People tends to acquired knowledge by learning and lack of training will be highly likely to have my kind of procrastination, especially on something we are not really trained on. The common experience of me doing things is plan things, make time estimates and do it. This sounds familiar but it is extremely different experience among people. As a "learner" although I made the time estimates, I don't really know them well. But with something that I am more comfortable with, I have a special feeling about the time estimates, that will have a strong confidence on that I can finish in a certain time frame. I tend to have no decision hesitations on tasks like this. This is usually the reason that I can finish tasks at the last minute, because usually I will assemble the things I trained more often, and use less the things I learned. The solution that now I am trying on, is to train more and learn less. Also I have done more things that I already familiar with(with I force myself to do because I need to resist myself considering it as waste of time), to at least know that I can get things done. Hope this will help you. comment here if you need more clarifications or advices.
• unnamed76ri 5y ago
  I do this, but the person I promised to accomplish something is usually myself.
• nicbou 5y ago
  Usually, I solve this by making it the only thing on my list that day, and clearing as many hurdles as possible the day before. This can mean anything from preliminary googling to cleaning up my workspace and taking out the required tools. This means that on the fateful morning, it’s the first thing I do after making coffee. No checking emails, no small chores, just a shower, coffee and getting to work. I read somewhere that a lot of procrastination is fear of failure or fear of the unknown. Sometimes tackling the latter is the best way to start. I circle the problem late in the evening when there is no pressure to start working. I just read, take notes and draft plans. Making it easy to get started is sometimes the best first step to take.
  • adventureadmin 5y ago
    >I read somewhere that a lot of procrastination is fear of failure or fear of the unknown The Brain Science podcast from Changelog has an episode about perfectionism and how it can lead to procrastination, by the fear of rejection or failure.
  • yboris 5y ago
    There's a book called "Eat That Frog". The main advice, as the title of the book suggests, whatever the biggest most-important task, regardless of how unpleasant (akin to eating a frog), just do it first and do nothing else until it's done. Works for some things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    • nicbou 5y ago
      This tends to lead to doing nothing for a long time.
  • low_tech_love 5y ago
    This is great advice, even if it sounds cliché and obvious. I like to say that you have to set yourself up for success. That is, make it as easy as possible for your task to actually be easier and more straightforward (i.e. get the other stuff out of the way the day before, clean up, mute your phone, empty your agenda, etc) It’s very common for us to do the exact opposite, and then we feel bad later because we failed. Of course! We made it even harder for ourselves then it already is. I think that many people (especially coders) got used earlier in life to do things naturally, to have natural motivation to work and that was enough. If at some point that’s not the case anymore, because you’re older, has more responsibility, is tired, or a combination of all these, you lose your “method” and don’t know what to do. So: recognize the difficulty of what you are going to do, and set yourself up for success. And also learn to expect less from yourself and be happy when small goals are achieved (you’ll learn this the hard way anyway; after not doing anything, even a small thing will feel like success).
• sanctified384 5y ago
  This is an oldie so many may already know it. But always relevant reading for my fellow procrastinators. Part 1: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti... Part 2: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/11/how-to-beat-procrastination.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/11/how-to-beat-procrastination.h... Bonus: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html Highly recommended! While I still procrastinate this understanding has helped me control my urge tememdously. A true gem! (This is also available as a video in Tim Urban's TED talk on YouTube)
  • romwell 5y ago
    I found myself relating to these particular three articles a lot. Then, last year, I have learned about ADHD - and, to my surprise, realized I'm a textbook example. There are a lot of resources available for us, and ways to do things differently. If you relate to WaitButWhy, check this out: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ https://romankogan.net/adhd/ And if you find yourself scrolling and relating - there's a good change your life will drastically change for the better when you get help for ADHD.
    • hhmc 5y ago
      You don't need to reply to every comment with a link to your site.
      • romwell 5y ago
        FYI, I'm not posting "the" link to my site. I'm linking to the specific posts I've written that directly relate to the comments I am responding to. I believe my writing is useful in such cases - not in the least because people have directly reached out to me to say thanks. Just trying to increase the chances that someone stumbles upon something that helps them. I don't see many people talking about ADHD here. If public awareness of ADHD was anywhere where it needs to be, I wouldn't have spent 34 years living without help.
    • 5y ago
• RichardHeart 5y ago
  Doom loop brought me here.
• can16358p 5y ago
  I somehow managed to break to the other side of things: when I'm tasked with something, I say "okay I'm gonna do it anyway sooner or later" and start getting the job out of the way. Instead of stressing myself out and procrastinating and postponing, I start them as soon as possible. Also did it when I was in college back then: when I had to study for a final, I started a relax study cycle days before, not in last night. I know we tend to procrastinate and what I've explained is easier said than done. But next time you're tasked and is about to procrastinate just remember that you'll be doing it anyway and if you did things ahead of time everyone will be happier and less stressful, and you'll have all your time to do whatever you want when the task is finished, without the stress. Maybe it will help someone.
  • dcminter 5y ago
    I doubt there are many procrastinators around who don't realise that if they "just ... did things ahead of time" it would solve their procrastination, but you must realise that failing to do this is the very definition of procrastination. None of us like being procrastinators. All you're telling us is that you're not a procrastinator. I once read that procrastination is rooted in fear. I think this generally holds true for me. I've often found it helpful to identify the source of fear and that this sometimes breaks the loop. But just starting sooner? Yes, it's that simple but no, it's not that simple.
    • can16358p 5y ago
      Well, yes and no. I also partly procrastinate still, so it's on and off kind of relationship. Just shared how I can make it go away when I can do. I sometimes just can't and know exactly how hard it feels.
    • piva00 5y ago
      > I once read that procrastination is rooted in fear. I think this generally holds true for me. For me as well. It's rooted in fear of failure, fear of the unknown. I notice it quite clearly when I switch jobs or teams, initially when I'm out of my depth with the new domain I'm working in I get almost paralysed with starting something, eventually I started it after guilting myself on not being productive. Then comes a period of back-and-forth procrastination on the task until I get my mental model in place and feel somewhat productive. Slowly I chip away the unknowns by gaining more expertise and feeling confident and comfortable with new tasks but up to that point I will struggle with: fear of failure, fear of not knowing enough, fear of delivering a subpar solution. There is some kind of prestige fear in there that I haven't yet wrapped my head around, therapy has been helping, in the least to be able to actually notice the pattern and start some coping mechanisms. > But just starting sooner? Yes, it's that simple but no, it's not that simple. Exactly my take as well, it follows the same line I share with people trying to lose weight: losing weight is actually pretty simple, it's just not easy at all depending on your habits. Some simple solutions are just not easy when you consider the human.
• randomsilence 5y ago
  >1. I commit to someone that I’ll do something “soon,” or by a deadline. The elephant in the room is that you can commit to, or you are committed to something that you don't want to do ("hi, IRS!"). Why should the mind be able to do that? We can't do things that we don't want to do. Procrastination is a form of self-preservation that prevents us from following any silly thought that randomly pops up in our heads. Procrastination is not a bug but a feature. Step 2 should be: call that 'someone' and chancel your commitment.
• wruza 5y ago
  You can improve your PDL. Procrastination starts with a permissive thought, like "okay later" or "it isn't that bad yet" or "wait, a new episode, that's important". After thinking this, or in advance, make a list of 5-10 things you usually, in practice, do/think/feel to do your routine. E.g. I want to clean up my room, what do I usually do: 1. Get up and look around 2. Decide what goes where 3. Foreach: take it, go, put it there 4. Optimize movement by buffering items that go to the same place 5. Feel bad when you have to go the same route twice, because you forgot something at the first trip Now mark important points and points you don't want to do. The former hides your vulnerability, the latter shows it. E.g. you have a chronic lower back pain and a low muscle tone from sitting all day, which makes you want 4 and stops from 3, because that involves bending over and feeling pain. Now guess what? You've found a problem: fix your back pain and sign up for a gym. Now you don't want to go to gym, rinse, repeat. Eventually you'll find out some deadlock like "I can't afford a gym and a doctor because my room demotivates me to get a job", but at least now you are aware of the issue. Or you may conclude that you don't really like your physician and maybe it's time to go check another one.
• _0ffh 5y ago
  The best advice I think I've heard so far against procrastination is: First, find a small sub-task of the thing you want to do, and lay it out clearly. Then commit a small amount of time to starting on that sub-task. Not on finishing it, just on starting it. Usually once you started the thing, you will have no trouble seeing it through in time. Rinse, repeat.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• tempestn 5y ago
  I'd love to hear suggestions for an employer or manager who expects or knows an employee or report is in or prone to this situation. Not experiencing that now, but definitely have in the past.
• mgdv 5y ago
  I have the same but it feels more like a type of paralysis rather than a loop. I'm finding the more I'm mentally trying to multi task, the worse this gets I can only do one task deeply at a time but while doing that, I will think and worry about other tasks that need to be done. This stops me from what I am working on, leaving it half way and starting something else. When I reach a point when two or more tasks compete for my attention (or someone drops something on my plate) I feel locked up. The best thing I've found is to capture tasks as soon as I get them and try to ignore things until my current task is done. Otherwise, i drift of into mindless scrolling
  • romwell 5y ago
    FYI, you are describing ADHD symptoms: >I have the same but it feels more like a type of paralysis rather than a loop See: "ADHD Paralysis"[1] >I can only do one task deeply at a time but while doing that, I will think and worry about other tasks that need to be done. This stops me from what I am working on, leaving it half way and starting something else. When I reach a point when two or more tasks compete for my attention (or someone drops something on my plate) I feel locked up. See: "Executive Dysfunction" [2] >The best thing I've found is to capture tasks as soon as I get them and try to ignore things until my current task is done. Otherwise, I drift of into mindless scrolling See: ADHD switches[3] I've been beating myself up for 30 years over this stuff, until I learned that I'm very much not alone - and that ADHD doesn't mean what the name says (it's named awfully[4]). [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#ADHD%20Paralysis https://romankogan.net/adhd/#ADHD%20Paralysis [2] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction [3] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#ADHD%20Switches https://romankogan.net/adhd/#ADHD%20Switches [4] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20Disorder https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20D...
  • netizen-936824 5y ago
    I have similar issues, I've found that cannabis edibles help me a lot with getting into a flow and grinding hard on some single task while minimizing noise
• coldtea 5y ago
  Here's the same concept, refrased as "Wall of Awful", in a neat video for ADHD people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg
• kubb 5y ago
  I solved this by lowering the expectations of how much I'm going to do - I usually just say to myself, let's do 1-2 things today, where these things are well defined, small pieces of work. Sometimes I can finish and can take 1 more thing of the list, sometimes I do one thing, sometimes I need to break the task up because it's too large. But I make a bit of progress every day even it it's just a centimeter or two. It adds up and I'm less stressed.
• tobr 5y ago
  Something I’ve noticed is that the worst thing I can do, strangely enough, is to write the task down on my todo list. While it might make me feel good in the moment to take a minute to write it down (at least I’ve made some kind of progress, right?), it now poisons the entire todo list; I can’t bear to look at the list because I know it includes a task that I don’t want to think about.
  • lifeplusplus 5y ago
    100% ... I read somewhere to only think about just the next step.. Nothing more. And I did. No grand plans just what I'll do tomorrow. I was going great.. then I started to get ideas and I made a to-do list I haven't worked touched it in 4 days now... It's like mind is at limit of processing.. like on 2% battery you can get by on light work auto pilot but do something intensive it will shut down, which is try thinking about tasks in to do list why? Not sure but I think probably because I visit reddit, HN, other stuff daily and already have brain bucket full of things to think about... I'm not sure how doers type manage it
• noduerme 5y ago
  What happened to me in 2020 was even weirder. I'd worked from home for 15 years and always managed my time well before the pandemic. I always wanted to get my work done as quickly as possible, because I had built up a work/reward system where I would go out at the end of the day, meet up with friends, socialize, or just sit outside a cafe and read a book. I never had to worry about deadlines because I was always way ahead of schedule. In 2020, the deadlines vanished - my contracts all didn't want anything in a hurry, because they were in no hurry to pay. And so did my entire structure of social life. So suddenly I had way too much time. I always thought if I had that much time, I'd pick up painting again, or record some new music, or just read all the books I'd been waiting to get to. But 2020 showed me a new problem: If you pick up that book, said my mind, you'll just get trapped in it all night. If you start painting you'll blow the whole day. So I'd panic-read news for an hour, work an hour, panic read some more, get drunk, worry, walk circles, forget I was doing laundry, mop the floor, forget I was mopping the floor, and literally never sit down and just lose myself to anything. This actually went on for almost 2 full years, and it's been the least creative time of my life; I'm only just starting to get over it. I bought myself a new laptop, a drawing tablet, art supplies, a new guitar, and got my piano tuned. And I still jump from one to another thing like a crazed monkey. When I fall into one thing, it goes all night and I feel like a wreck the next morning, with no useful result. A couple songs, a couple paintings, and they bring me memories of this oppressive, crazed, all-night insanity and bottles of wine I shouldn't have drunk. Then I go sober for a few days and bury myself into work, burn myself to the ground. Try to make $2k a day, burn burn burn. Look up and it's dark; I haven't gone out. I went out, a bunch, between Delta and Omicron. I'm triple vaxed but I'm at the point where I'd kick myself forever if I got long covid because I lapsed and went out to shoot pool or hang out with friends. I've read so many articles lately about this ...procrastination... I don't think it's the right word. What we are is afraid of the future, and every day has to be divided up into smaller and smaller pieces just to make sure you're sort of trying to take care of your mind. So you listen to your podcasts or you do something that you know won't take up all day because all day is too much commitment. Sobering up adds 4 hours, I know that. But then I just play video games and try to forget I want a drink. It might actually be better in prison, since your options for what to do are so limited. I'd have to finish the book, or keep writing, or finish the code I was writing on the wall. I was always sure I was better than almost any freelancer I ever met at managing my time, balancing work and life. But it turns out my balance did require having a life; now I do my work in this endless slog, with jack shit to look forward to. What good is money if you can't spend it. But I'm not okay with rejoining the human viral zoo right now and I'm not sure if or when I will be.
• W4ldi 5y ago
  Try cold showers. It makes it easier to overcome uncomfortable things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvZNpFLtGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvZNpFLtGs
• IAmYourDensity 5y ago
  I've read lots of books (Eat That Frog, Getting Things Done, The Pomodoro Technique, The Now Habit) and tons of blog posts on procrastination and rarely do I find them very actionable (heh). Here's three techniques that work for me: 1. Baby Steps 2. Warp Speed 3. Multitask __ Baby Steps Do the simplest possible step to start the task, and repeat. For example, just open your word processor or IDE. Just write one sentence or prototype one function. Make a list of five topics for an essay or five requirements for a new block of code. If you get going, great. If not, look for the next baby step to move forward. Warp Speed Sometimes Baby Steps is not enough motivation if I really find a task distasteful or my perfectionism has set in, so I challenge myself to complete the task in some ridiculously small amount of time. For example, can I complete this 10 page essay in ... 15 minutes? Of course, spending days thinking of ideas that will win a Pulitzer is now out of the question. I have 30 seconds to outline the paper. 1.5 minutes to write each page. It's a mad dash of stream-of-consciousness to try to finish. At the end of 15 minutes, I'm usually left with either: a) a pretty terrible paper but a mental outline of ideas that I can make good by multiple re-writes, b) an actually submittable paper because I forgot about the 15min deadline an hour ago and I've been in flow the entire time. The key to Warp Speed is that I'm allowed throw away the first, second, or third drafts and start again with the ideas that were gained. Another technique that works with Warp Speed is to imagine yourself hitting SEND on the email to your professor, with essay attached, or hitting submit on the PR to your team with the new code you've written. Imagining the reaction of others helps me focus on what is absolutely essential to the project. What is the minimum level of quality that I need to avoid embarrassing myself? Once I have that, I can continue to iterate and improve if the project is worth it, or submit and move on if it's not worth my time. Multitask I know. I know. Multitasking is bad. But sometimes I get blocked on a Very Important Project because what I really want to be working on are some pie-in-the-sky almost-certainly-waste-of-time projects like designing a new programming language from scratch, or creating a new video game, or researching Machine Learning. But it would be totally irresponsible to work on those projects before the Very Important Project, and I really don't want to work on that, so I'll just spin here in procrastination land playing video games and watching Youtube for 10 hours. Instead, I multitask. I open a window and start prototyping the new programming language, I open another window and start brainstorming game ideas, and I open a third window and start working on Very Important Project. After I've made some progress or hit a lull on the fun projects I switch to the VIP and work on that. And now that I'm started on the VIP, and it is very important, I'll just finish it off quickly so I can focus on the fun projects.
• lupin_sansei 5y ago
  I can highly recommend Task Ratchet https://taskratchet.com/ https://taskratchet.com/ by the makers of Beeminder. You add a task and a due date and how much they will fine if you if you don’t do it in time. Loss aversion kicks in and I actually do the task to avoid being fined.
  • dreeves 5y ago
    Oh! Beeminder's not actually affiliated with TaskRatchet. We're just friends with the creator of it and have promoted it a lot and have an autodata integration with it, etc. See https://blog.beeminder.com/taskratchet https://blog.beeminder.com/taskratchet -- which is a guest post by the TaskRatchet creator on the Beeminder blog (so, um, I can see where the confusion came from!).
• tiku 5y ago
  I started to play Doom as procrastination as i've read the title.
• bluejellybean 5y ago
  Another trick that I haven't seen anyone talk about in this thread is visualization. I'll use this whenever I notice the loop, but still don't have the courage to actually stop. I'll pause for a moment, tell myself that I am NOT going to do the thing exactly at this moment, but instead I will just visualize the exact steps needed for when I eventually sit down to do it. This helps for those situations in which I'm procrastinating due to a realized or unrealized ambiguity of a given task. If I'm slacking because I don't know how to do something, it gives me the questions that I need to go find answers to. Googling around for answers or pinging a coworker is way easier than actually doing the work, and thus I can 'get the ball rolling' so to speak. Even if I still procrastinate a bit afterwards, the tasks seem much more manageable as I already 'know' what needs to be done, letting ideas stew at this point. Usually after a snack or bathroom break, I'll come back and just crank out the work (or at least start!) because I'm so sick of thinking about how simple that first step actually is, again, because the details are already worked out in my head. In a literal sense, this is 'work/working', but it never feels like it, and that's part of the key for me to overcome it. It's just thinking, right?
  • beaconstudios 5y ago
    100% this. I've commented similar elsewhere in the thread with a similar position - essentially, there's something you need to do that you're avoiding, some problem you need to resolve, and it's emotionally uncomfortable. Many of us have learned to avoid discomfort, but often times you need to go through it to make progress. It's best if you can minimise that discomfort in order to make headway, and simply breaking down what needs doing in your head can help make it less stressful.
    • PebblesRox 5y ago
      I definitely agree. Procrastination is a feelings problem and it took me a long time to realize that. Often when I actually do the thing, I realize it is harder or feels worse than I was consciously feeling. It makes me think, "Oh yeah, no wonder I was putting this off. This is hard." An example of this is decluttering, which sounds easy but in reality involves making a lot of difficult, often emotional decisions (i.e. coming to terms with the fact that I'm not actually going to use something any time soon so it would be better to get rid of it than keep it hanging around taking up space).
• evancoop 5y ago
  It's not simply a matter of willpower to avoid procrastination. The "doom loops" emerge in the absence of a structure that returns awareness to a task (but does not require anxiety about the task BEFORE that return). We've all made to-do lists...then avoided looking at the list for some unhealthy period of time. That's the cognitive dissonance hell (don't look! don't acknowledge the problem!). The answer presumably lies in habits, external structure, and patterns that allow items to be acted upon, quickly captured with minimal thought (e.g. "Getting Things Done" or some such system), and then, crucially, returning to that external structure early and often!