5 ms·

Proof of waste cryto currencies are a malignancy on society. The people involved (even indirectly) are going to find themselves viewed and treated very similar

Proof of waste cryto currencies are a malignancy on society. The people involved (even indirectly) are going to find themselves viewed and treated very similarly to other malign forces as time goes on regardless of how justified and practical they think they're being right now. In my mind they're right besides smallpox blanket givers. It's just business!

stfp 5y ago
The smallpox blanket givers are maligned now but they and their people (~europeans) did grab and are still holding 97% of the territory they set out to conquer. History is written by the victors, and it's questionable whether this outcome is actually beneficial for mankind / the planet. On the surface it is - look at all the tech! On the other hand the tech actually results in an ever growing rate of destruction (of native nature and culture, aka. whatever was there before), and that trend was visible from day one. In other words, bitcoin & co. aren't the first toxic, destructive get-rich-quick schemes, and we as a society have shown time and again we're unable to really resist most of them.
- obviousreason 5y ago
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  Do they really know how bad they are? Because this common caricature of "smallpox blanket" is not based in verifiable historical fact. There's no clear evidence that Europeans were literally weaponizing smallpox to wipe out most of native American populations. The understanding of how infection spread happened a good 200 years later, than depopulation.
  - jcranmer 5y ago
    There is one documented case of someone suggesting distributing smallpox blankets. Exactly one; it's not entirely clear if it was carried out--furthermore, given that there was already a smallpox epidemic going around in the nearby Native American villages at the time, it likely would have done diddly squat. Incidentally, if you want a good example of horrors meted out, try the residential school system, which does seem to be far less well-known among the lay public. Maybe "we're trying to civilize them!" turning out to involve horrific amounts of abuse (and, yes, death) is too much to countenance?
mraudiobook_com 5y ago
fleddr 5y ago
Fully agree that PC gaming rigs are out of control.
serverholic 5y ago
Bitcoin has a real problem on their hands. Luckily Ethereum is about to switch away from PoW but as far as I know Bitcoin has no such plans. In the end, Bitcoin's relentlessly conservative approach to crypto will likely be its downfall.
- EL_Loco 5y ago
  Why people mention Ethereum as a 'greener Bitcoin' baffles me. There are already some networks that are a thousand times greener than what Ethereum might be when it switches, and that is if the switch goes as planned and on schedule. There are a couple of networks that are already carbon neutral or even negative. If Ethereum takes over Bitcoin, it will still be a wasteful network, and still seen as (rightly so) a villain.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    How carbon negative network work?
    - EL_Loco 5y ago
      Same way as any industry/business that consumes energy can become carbon negative.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Ethereum has been "about to switch away from PoW" for years and years. They get zero points for this up until the day it actually happens. For now, they are massively harmful, and judging by their history, will continue to be so.
nmz 5y ago
It's unfortunate that the crypto evangelicals don't see it that way, they're worse than religious fanatics by now.
- jeffalbertson 5y ago
  crypto evangelicals are either get rich quick folks or sound money advocates. The former sucks but they are in every investment cicle. The latter's religion has been based in seeing governments bailout bad actors with 0 consequences & devalue a currency astronomically over a 100 year period. Salaries are not keeping with the rise in asset prices which means the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Buying a house in CA as a millennial is laughable. Bitcoin or a gold standard is the only system that encourages a thriving middle class economy and keeps the government from poor policy decisions. Bitcoin seems to be better than gold since its mobile, transparent, finite. But i'd welcome a return to a gold standard with open arms. I believe that 1) not all solutions can be 100% perfect for all problems an 2) a medium of exchange created by the people is our only hope to keep the gov/fed from enslaving with us debt forever 3) Judging what should/should not be able to use electricity is a slippery slope.
steelstraw 5y ago
Those who live under corrupt regimes and/or hyperinflation have a different view. Furthermore, one could say the frames you're rendering for Netflix or Call of Duty is proof of waste.
- adventured 5y ago
  While I agree with the sentiment - as obviously crypto can sometimes be useful in that context - you're also talking about a tiny fraction of the human population where it's relevant in that way. It's a small fraction even within nations in those conditions. How has Bitcoin saved Venezuela? Well it helped a small number of people in the country, sure. It obviously didn't fundamentally make any difference, and it's not going to anywhere else either. For the average person Bitcoin is not easier to acquire, use or manage than USD in locations such as Lebanon, Turkey or Venezuela.
  - steelstraw 5y ago
    Sure, but it's increasingly relevant the more we see governments and currencies fail. If the same thing happens in El Salvador, the people will be in a far better position than Venezuelans were. Or if it happens in the West. The USD is at risk of losing global reserve status, and it's inflating, and some (Jack at Square, for instance) are making the case that hyperinflation is coming for us too. With how unstable things are this point, I would at least entertain the possibility.
    - skulk 5y ago
      Are all these problems caused by the lack of a decentralized currency that requires burning crazy amounts of energy to maintain trustlessness? Even if everything burns away and anyone who is still worth a damn holds BTC, what has actually been solved?
- tjr225 5y ago
  Its... almost as if endless growth is a cancer on our society and psychology?
- 5y ago

stfp 5y ago

The smallpox blanket givers are maligned now but they and their people (~europeans) did grab and are still holding 97% of the territory they set out to conquer. History is written by the victors, and it's questionable whether this outcome is actually beneficial for mankind / the planet. On the surface it is - look at all the tech! On the other hand the tech actually results in an ever growing rate of destruction (of native nature and culture, aka. whatever was there before), and that trend was visible from day one. In other words, bitcoin & co. aren't the first toxic, destructive get-rich-quick schemes, and we as a society have shown time and again we're unable to really resist most of them.

obviousreason 5y ago
JAlexoid 5y ago
Do they really know how bad they are? Because this common caricature of "smallpox blanket" is not based in verifiable historical fact. There's no clear evidence that Europeans were literally weaponizing smallpox to wipe out most of native American populations. The understanding of how infection spread happened a good 200 years later, than depopulation.
- jcranmer 5y ago
  There is one documented case of someone suggesting distributing smallpox blankets. Exactly one; it's not entirely clear if it was carried out--furthermore, given that there was already a smallpox epidemic going around in the nearby Native American villages at the time, it likely would have done diddly squat. Incidentally, if you want a good example of horrors meted out, try the residential school system, which does seem to be far less well-known among the lay public. Maybe "we're trying to civilize them!" turning out to involve horrific amounts of abuse (and, yes, death) is too much to countenance?

mraudiobook_com 5y ago

fleddr 5y ago

Fully agree that PC gaming rigs are out of control.

serverholic 5y ago

Bitcoin has a real problem on their hands. Luckily Ethereum is about to switch away from PoW but as far as I know Bitcoin has no such plans. In the end, Bitcoin's relentlessly conservative approach to crypto will likely be its downfall.

EL_Loco 5y ago
Why people mention Ethereum as a 'greener Bitcoin' baffles me. There are already some networks that are a thousand times greener than what Ethereum might be when it switches, and that is if the switch goes as planned and on schedule. There are a couple of networks that are already carbon neutral or even negative. If Ethereum takes over Bitcoin, it will still be a wasteful network, and still seen as (rightly so) a villain.
- fomine3 5y ago
  How carbon negative network work?
  - EL_Loco 5y ago
    Same way as any industry/business that consumes energy can become carbon negative.
user-the-name 5y ago
Ethereum has been "about to switch away from PoW" for years and years. They get zero points for this up until the day it actually happens. For now, they are massively harmful, and judging by their history, will continue to be so.

nmz 5y ago

It's unfortunate that the crypto evangelicals don't see it that way, they're worse than religious fanatics by now.

jeffalbertson 5y ago
crypto evangelicals are either get rich quick folks or sound money advocates. The former sucks but they are in every investment cicle. The latter's religion has been based in seeing governments bailout bad actors with 0 consequences & devalue a currency astronomically over a 100 year period. Salaries are not keeping with the rise in asset prices which means the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Buying a house in CA as a millennial is laughable. Bitcoin or a gold standard is the only system that encourages a thriving middle class economy and keeps the government from poor policy decisions. Bitcoin seems to be better than gold since its mobile, transparent, finite. But i'd welcome a return to a gold standard with open arms. I believe that 1) not all solutions can be 100% perfect for all problems an 2) a medium of exchange created by the people is our only hope to keep the gov/fed from enslaving with us debt forever 3) Judging what should/should not be able to use electricity is a slippery slope.

steelstraw 5y ago

Those who live under corrupt regimes and/or hyperinflation have a different view. Furthermore, one could say the frames you're rendering for Netflix or Call of Duty is proof of waste.

adventured 5y ago
While I agree with the sentiment - as obviously crypto can sometimes be useful in that context - you're also talking about a tiny fraction of the human population where it's relevant in that way. It's a small fraction even within nations in those conditions. How has Bitcoin saved Venezuela? Well it helped a small number of people in the country, sure. It obviously didn't fundamentally make any difference, and it's not going to anywhere else either. For the average person Bitcoin is not easier to acquire, use or manage than USD in locations such as Lebanon, Turkey or Venezuela.
- steelstraw 5y ago
  Sure, but it's increasingly relevant the more we see governments and currencies fail. If the same thing happens in El Salvador, the people will be in a far better position than Venezuelans were. Or if it happens in the West. The USD is at risk of losing global reserve status, and it's inflating, and some (Jack at Square, for instance) are making the case that hyperinflation is coming for us too. With how unstable things are this point, I would at least entertain the possibility.
  - skulk 5y ago
    Are all these problems caused by the lack of a decentralized currency that requires burning crazy amounts of energy to maintain trustlessness? Even if everything burns away and anyone who is still worth a damn holds BTC, what has actually been solved?
tjr225 5y ago
Its... almost as if endless growth is a cancer on our society and psychology?
5y ago