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I am absolutely flummoxed by this review. Mine is configured with nearly identical specs (except that I have 64GB RAM) and is one of the worst purchases I've ev

by smeej 5y ago

I am absolutely flummoxed by this review. Mine is configured with nearly identical specs (except that I have 64GB RAM) and is one of the worst purchases I've ever made. Enabling deep sleep works fine; waking from it is impossible. WiFi stops working. The touch pad becomes hypersensitive. I've resorted to turning the whole thing completely off after every use. But the battery still loses power even when the machine is completely powered down. The machine also freezes if I try to open a jpg or a PDF from the file explorer. Just completely freezes. Fan spins up like crazy, but as I mentioned, I have 64GB of RAM in this thing. It should be able to open a single one-page scanned document from my own scanner. If there's anything wrong with the file, this is the computer that's making the file poorly. The internet connection also just turns off after about half an hour of use. I have a Belkin dock with Ethernet plugged into it, which is then plugged into my Framework's USB-C port. This dock supports my work Mac all work day every day with no issues at all, so it's not the dock's problem. But the Framework? Internet just stops working after half an hour. And it manages to kill both wired and WiFi when it dies. I can turn them back on, but this is a ridiculous problem to have. This last point is pretty minor, but the hinges are floppy. The whole screen shakes around when I type on it. I have no idea how this author's experience is so much better than mine unless they just haven't used it much yet, but I regret absolutely everything about the purchase of this machine and feel like I was sold a bill of goods by all the glowing positive reviews all over the internet.

choeger 5y ago
Stupid question: Could it be that your hardware is faulty? Power supply, memory, or a defective Mainboard?
- smeej 5y ago
  Maybe? All the hardware came from Framework (i.e., I haven't subbed in any parts), though, so it would point to a quality control issue at least.
jonaustin 5y ago
I'll give my own n=1 response: I use Arch Linux for comparison. The framework is not the best short-term laptop I've ever had, but it's Solid and if the company sticks around should be the best _long-term_ laptop I've ever owned. - Deep sleep works fine; wake works fine (with a ~10s delay; that's just linux i think) - Battery is far better than my Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen. (have not really tested, but at a guess, solid 6-8 hours; which for linux is solidly average-to-good i think) - Never freezes - Fans are fine (way, way better than my 2018 macbook pro...) - Network is fine (I had issues at first, but was my fault due to faulty systemd configuration) - Hinges could be tighter, but no issue with practical use (I'm typing on this on my lap right now and it's fine) - I use it practically every day for hours at a time. - I've dropped it at least 2 times -- once from ~3-4 feet high (onto carpet). Totally fine functionally; though the monitor back now has a slight protrusion. - but hey, it's modular so I can just replace the screen at some point if I really want to (nit: hopefully they'll come out with a matte screen) Basically the original post here is n=1 so, i mean... the framework is the most exciting laptop "ideology" frankly ever. And even this first 'beta' version is super solid.
netsec_burn 5y ago
What OS did you install? It could be related to their choice to install a cutting edge version of Ubuntu versus Ubuntu LTS (for patches that may resolve some of what you're experiencing).
- smeej 5y ago
  First Ubuntu 21.10 like the author. Then reverted to 21.04 because the Framework forums recommended that to get the WiFi card working at all (it didn't on 21.10). With the RAM exception, my Framework and the author's appear to be apples to apples. That's why this review confuses me so much; we appear to be using almost the exact same machine.
  - mfer 5y ago
    I have the same configuration as the author and get similar results (except I don’t have hibernation setup yet) I had touchpad issues but there was a fix for it in the forums With windows (I setup dual boot) everything works done. I had to tinker with Linux for everything to work how I wanted it. Which is what I’ve had to do with other Linux desktops too
proactivesvcs 5y ago
Have you contacted their tech support to see how they stand by their claims? (Not asking to be passive-aggressive; genuinely curious to hear about their after-sales.)
- smeej 5y ago
  I see their team working alongside the community in the forums trying to troubleshoot my issues and issues like them, but I haven't found solutions there and haven't contacted them directly.
  - cyberpunk 5y ago
    For that kind of money, getting that kind of battery life would be a return from me.. I'd love to get off the apple train, but I can't go back after the battery life on my M1.. I can do two full 8 hour workdays without a charger on this thing... With VMs..
enricozb 5y ago
I have also had wireless issues, but since I've only installed NixOS I can't tell if it's because of the OS or some hardware issues. I also thing (again very minor) that the hinge is too loose. If I have it on my lap and type on it the hinge slowly opens up. I wish there was a stiffer hinge.
- tortasaur 5y ago
  What sort of issues? I'm also running NixOS on mine.
  - enricozb 5y ago
    are you using NetworkManager? I'm using i3 so I use nmtui and I absolutely hate it. I much prefer iwctl, but that's not one of the supported options unfortunately... The main issues are just difficulty connecting to networks. When connected it usually works fine, sometimes DNS will randomly fail though.
gbuk2013 5y ago
It’s probably the USB-C dock - I have the same issues with a Lenovo laptop and Ubuntu 20 LTS but works fine without dock connected. On my phone now but there was a bug report I found to match this - apparently 5.14 kernel might work better but I haven’t been able to install it yet from the 3rd party repo. Update: this is the bug I think: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200977 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200977
- smeej 5y ago
  The Ethernet support might be the dock. The rest of the problems persist whether or not it's connected to the dock. But the dock also doesn't have Ethernet problems with any of my other devices.
losvedir 5y ago
I feel like this happens with any item. For example, I've been supremely happy with all the Apple laptops I've ever owned, but have seen others with a litany of problems. Could it be that you got a dud with some sort of hardware problem? Try contacting their support and maybe they'll let you exchange it or something.
aquaticsunset 5y ago
I have no issues with mine, except for the deep sleep one. The current prevailing theory on the forums suggests it's got something to do with PCIe Gen4 SSD firmware. The issue is widespread enough that I'm hopeful we'll see a fix soon enough. Otherwise I'm extremely happy with mine!
nafizh 5y ago
You have to go to bios and disable secure boot, then the battery doesn’t get drained anymore when the lid is closed. You also have to disable ps2 mouse emulation in bios, the mouse hypersensitivity goes away after that. I also enabled large text in accessibility so the text size is perfect and super high res with the 3:2 aspect screen, it’s fantastic. I just bought the framework and running ubuntu 21.10. I had some of the problems you mentioned but the forum has solutions to many. It’s a new product, and specially with Linux, I knew there would be some problems. You have to be willing to solve these problems o/w you should stay away from buying new hardware from a startup.
- smeej 5y ago
  Thank you for these directions! I'll give them a shot as soon as I get a chance and hopefully they'll make a difference!
  - beckman466 5y ago
    awesome. i would be keen to get a little status report in a week if you could? others will then possibly be convinced to support the development and growth of Framework if they are searching HN through Algolia
    - oneepic 5y ago
      Or they'll be convinced to stay away, depending on the outcome...
- amarshall 5y ago
  > disable secure boot, then the battery doesn’t get drained anymore when the lid is closed Do you have a link to further elaboration and testing on this? Seems strange, and searching the forums is a bit difficult since the two terms get mentioned together a lot.
  - pja 5y ago
    Secure boot currently results in the Linux kernel disabling hibernation for security reasons IIRC.
kkielhofner 5y ago
I'm with you. My configuration is more-or-less maxed out and at over $2500 it's one of the more regretful large purchases I've ever made. Current issues: - As has been noted time and time again, battery life is atrocious. As in unusable for even the travel time required for a three hour flight: factoring in the poor sleep, an hour at the airport, and time on the aircraft the battery is dead. Crazy for 2021/2022 - my eight year old Macbook does better. - Wifi. The Intel Wifi modules provided with the Framework are very poorly supported in Linux. I spent six hours the other night running additional ethernet drops because I just couldn't stand my workday routinely being interrupted by repeatedly disassociating from my AP (fixed with reboot). Even unloading and reloading the associated kernel modules wouldn't bring it back. - USB-C acts... Strange. I have two 4K displays using Displayport over USB-C and the Framework repeatedly fails to initialize them from boot. I have to do a strange dance (the steps of which I'm still figuring out) involving powering off the Framework, unplugging/re-plugging everything, and then rebooting until it magically works again. - Fan. The fan is crazy. I've settled on disabling turbo mode in Linux. - Build quality. I'm convinced if I drop this thing it's all over. All in all I'm mad at myself for spending over $3k on a productivity configuration centered around what is pretty much beta hardware. I should have known better. Anyway, there's hope for some of these issues as they seem to be releasing BIOS updates pretty regularly (currently running 3.07) but even then I need to USB boot to use their EFI update tool. Intel wifi should get better over time and worst case I can swap it out for Atheros or something. That said I think the battery, build, and fan issues are fundamental hardware design choices.
- amarshall 5y ago
  - Re WiFi: it's not specific to Framework, and are just bugs in Intel's Linux driver. See bug (and workaround and patches) in my report https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 as well as forum discussion https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on-the-framework-laptop/1844 https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on... - Re battery: Yup, battery life during sleep sucks, it seems like this is mostly an Intel 11th gen issue as S3 sleep went away and folks on Dell, Lenovo, etc., 11th gen hardware have similar issues. - Re Fan: it does seem to like to ramp up a bit too much even when components are not really that hot yet. - Re USB-C: have not used that, so cannot comment - Re build quality: yes, it is a bit flimsier than I would like (though have definitely used laptops that are way worse), but it is also lighter than competitors that are less so. I am mostly okay with that trade-off, others may not be. As you say, the company has been responsive and helpful on the community forums in a way the big players never have been, and the BIOS updates are fixing genuine issues and complaints with real release notes. It's not all great for sure, but there's lots of things that are a lot better than competitors.
thereddaikon 5y ago
They work fine under Windows. Ergo the problem isn't the laptop, its the driver support under Linux. In my experience current gen laptops except for certain ThinkPads and Clevos will have support issues in Linux. You get a much better experience using a model a year or two old because the community has had time to address any issues. The design goal of the Framework wasn't out of the box 100% Linux support, it was reparability. While they encourage Linux development on the platform, what hardware works best to meet their design goal may or may not already have Linux support.
- smeej 5y ago
  An awful lot of the reviews and hype have been touting Linux support, and this review in particular says it "just works." It doesn't, and I very much wish the company and reviewers had made that clearer.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    I suspect that many of the reviewers were running 21.04 as opposed to 21.10 which has been acknowledged still has support issues.
    - smeej 5y ago
      I've also been running 21.04, though, and had all the issues I mentioned above in that environment.
  - aksss 5y ago
    I love linux distros but let me just say that anytime I hear "linux" and "just works" in the same sentence, I knowingly snicker to myself at the road that lies in front of that poor sucker. I "just works" with plenty of learning opportunities included for free.
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      There was a time before current sleep issues where this was true. You could buy some laptops, install a decent distro and be on your way. Nowadays sleep issues are affecting most recent CPUs, I had a pretty poor experience on any laptop. I picked a Surface 2 because there was a community effort (linux-surface) and I still have the same sleep / freezing issues I had on day one, despite my model being covered in green checkmarks on the support page of the project. Unfortunately OSS is people working for free in their spare time and you can't expect much. Honestly I wish a company would come up and make a paid linux distro with proper support for one model. I'd be happy to pay for an operative system that works and it's not Mac OS or Windows, as they both suck pretty bad in their latest iterations. My ideal UX is the configuration of KDE I've used for years or my Sway setup, not window managers without tiling support and limited proprietary file managers which are designed for noobs.
satysin 5y ago
I am surprised by the review also. While not mine a friend owns a Framework laptop and I have spent many hours trying to help them get it working as well as the Dell Latitude it replaced. WiFi and power draw issues are the biggest two problems they continue to experience. Also while the screen is very nice it is let down by the resolution. It isn’t high enough to used at 2x scaling but non-integer scaling really hits battery and performance. I feel that was a terrible oversight. It is a shame as the laptops overall build quality is very good. Hopefully these common issues can be sorted properly as I would be interested in picking one up once it has rocked solid Linux support. Also a higher (or lower) resolution panel option would be nice. After all it is the Framework laptop, surely they should have different panel options :)
- jandrese 5y ago
  If I have to turn on scaling I always think I screwed up. I spent too much on pixel density that I can't even use, so now I have to make everything aliased just to read the text.
amarshall 5y ago
Re WiFi: this is a Linux driver bug, see my report for workaround and patches https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 as well as forums discussion https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on-the-framework-laptop/1844 https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on...
- G3rn0ti 5y ago
  BTW: You can buy the DIY version w/o the Intel WiFi board and bring your own that's more compatible.
  - amarshall 5y ago
    Absolutely! I’d just already bought that one (not knowing the Linux driver issues) and, while considered buying another board, was fortunately able to find a workaround for the issue that fully resolves for me (just disables 802.11ax, which I don’t need presently anyway).
notpublic 5y ago
I have been using mine (64GB with Ubuntu 21.04, Gnome Flashback) for the past several months as my primary work laptop. I have not experienced any of the issues you mention. I like it so far. In fact, hardly notice it. Except maybe when I do sudo/login. I can use my fingerprint instead of password :). My earlier laptop was a 2012 MacBook Pro which gave up last year. I do have an M1 which is used exclusively for iOS dev. I did have to tweak few things mentioned in their community page/forum to get everything working. Two issues (which hasn't bothered me yet) - battery drain during suspend - gnome not supporting different scaling with multiple monitors (fixed in later version of gnome as I understand) edit: formatting
gaganyaan 5y ago
That's surprising to hear. I've had one for a few months now. I pulled the nvme drive from my old laptop, put it in the framework laptop, and it booted up and has been running great. I haven't had any issues opening a jpg/pdf, waking up from sleep, or wifi dying. Which isn't to disregard what you're experiencing, but maybe try updating the firmware? I've seen at least one email they sent out about new firmware that people should probably install if they haven't yet. And maybe try out a liveusb just to see if there's something weird in your installation?
kllrnohj 5y ago
> The machine also freezes if I try to open a jpg or a PDF from the file explorer. Just completely freezes. Fan spins up like crazy, but as I mentioned, I have 64GB of RAM in this thing. It should be able to open a single one-page scanned document from my own scanner. If there's anything wrong with the file, this is the computer that's making the file poorly. This almost certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with the framework itself. That sounds like a software bug all day long. Something about your OS install is broken or similar. The only other possibility seems like it'd be if the storage drive is broken. Which could then possibly be why you're experiencing so many other issues, if things like code pages are just failing to load or getting corrupted in the same way your JPG isn't able to load. But it seems like starting with a fsck or even a re-install seems like a good idea.
- kodah 5y ago
  > This almost certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with the framework itself. I mean... Kind of? It's pretty clear that they're driver issues. Hardware manufacturers have to make in-roads with OS teams to get these things delivered flawlessly, otherwise they have to wait for the community to build fixes. System76 and Lenovo do their best to get ahead of driver issues from what I've seen. I'm assuming a lot of this has to do with the fact that OP is running 21.10 rather than an LTS release.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    But opening a jpeg or PDF doesn't really involve any drivers, so driver issues wouldn't explain why those specifically are failing to open. If opening anything caused random freezes, that'd suggest something like the GPU driver might be failing. But otherwise opening JPEGs & PDFs are just generic CPU work, there's no drivers for those.
    - smeej 5y ago
      To be clear, they open fine if I open a compatible program and then open them from within the program. They just freeze the system if I try to open them from the file explorer. I've not seen anything like this before.
philjohn 5y ago
Do those things work well on other laptops with Linux and the same CPU?
nrp 5y ago
We definitely want to help you resolve these issues. Most of them sound like specific compatibility challenges on Ubuntu 21.10. To be clear, I agree that we need to get better with new Ubuntu releases. We've been providing hardware to the team at Fedora and have full support out of the box with Fedora 35, but don't have a setup like that with Ubuntu yet. In the meantime, we've been recommending Ubuntu 21.04 because it does have full support and good stability with all updates applied: https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework-laptop/2722 https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework...
- smeej 5y ago
  I am running 21.04. All these problems are occurring on 21.04.
  - nrp 5y ago
    In that case, we definitely want to understand what is occurring, because that is pretty unusual. I would recommend either commenting in the 21.04 thread or creating a new thread in our Linux sub-forum on this, so that both us and members of the community can help debug this: https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework-laptop/2722/131 https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework...
    - torstenvl 5y ago
      Hey. I don't have a Framework and I'm not in the market soon, so I'm not particularly invested in the underlying specifics here, but... As a general matter, I have seen this kind of sentiment a lot, and I don't think it's particularly helpful. This subthread OP clearly feels let down and potentially betrayed. Why would you respond by suggesting that the conversation goes private onto a forum Framework controls? Shifting the forum of the discussion to a place where one party has more power seems inherently questionable. I say that even though I have no reason to believe you all would do anything inappropriate, and my general view of your project is highly positive.
      - 5y ago
prophesi 5y ago
As a counterpoint, I've been running Fedora on my DIY Framework since mid-October without any issues (besides needing to install a Respin to get the required WiFi driver). Even upgraded from Fedora 34 to 35 just fine. Enabled deep sleep and it's working as intended, issues with WiFi have always been due to Spectrum's terrible non-fiber service, etc.
allochthon 5y ago
> The touch pad becomes hypersensitive. I haven't seen a lot of the problems you're seeing, but I definitely have seen this one. Not only is the touch pad hard to use because it's very sensitive, just using the builtin keyboard can accidentally cause the touch pad to be activated. I've read up on ways of fixing this in Linux, but I haven't quite found the trick to make the touch pad behave as well as the Mac touch pad, which is what I'm used to. I haven't even really found a fix yet, so I type very carefully, avoiding resting my hands on the laptop, when I'm not using an external keyboard.
- jandrese 5y ago
  Palm detection in Linux is a definite weak area. I have tried everything and still get spurious clicks when typing on pretty much every laptop.

by smeej 5y ago

choeger 5y ago

Stupid question: Could it be that your hardware is faulty? Power supply, memory, or a defective Mainboard?

smeej 5y ago
Maybe? All the hardware came from Framework (i.e., I haven't subbed in any parts), though, so it would point to a quality control issue at least.

jonaustin 5y ago

I'll give my own n=1 response: I use Arch Linux for comparison. The framework is not the best short-term laptop I've ever had, but it's Solid and if the company sticks around should be the best _long-term_ laptop I've ever owned. - Deep sleep works fine; wake works fine (with a ~10s delay; that's just linux i think) - Battery is far better than my Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen. (have not really tested, but at a guess, solid 6-8 hours; which for linux is solidly average-to-good i think) - Never freezes - Fans are fine (way, way better than my 2018 macbook pro...) - Network is fine (I had issues at first, but was my fault due to faulty systemd configuration) - Hinges could be tighter, but no issue with practical use (I'm typing on this on my lap right now and it's fine) - I use it practically every day for hours at a time. - I've dropped it at least 2 times -- once from ~3-4 feet high (onto carpet). Totally fine functionally; though the monitor back now has a slight protrusion. - but hey, it's modular so I can just replace the screen at some point if I really want to (nit: hopefully they'll come out with a matte screen) Basically the original post here is n=1 so, i mean... the framework is the most exciting laptop "ideology" frankly ever. And even this first 'beta' version is super solid.

netsec_burn 5y ago

What OS did you install? It could be related to their choice to install a cutting edge version of Ubuntu versus Ubuntu LTS (for patches that may resolve some of what you're experiencing).

smeej 5y ago
First Ubuntu 21.10 like the author. Then reverted to 21.04 because the Framework forums recommended that to get the WiFi card working at all (it didn't on 21.10). With the RAM exception, my Framework and the author's appear to be apples to apples. That's why this review confuses me so much; we appear to be using almost the exact same machine.
- mfer 5y ago
  I have the same configuration as the author and get similar results (except I don’t have hibernation setup yet) I had touchpad issues but there was a fix for it in the forums With windows (I setup dual boot) everything works done. I had to tinker with Linux for everything to work how I wanted it. Which is what I’ve had to do with other Linux desktops too

proactivesvcs 5y ago

Have you contacted their tech support to see how they stand by their claims? (Not asking to be passive-aggressive; genuinely curious to hear about their after-sales.)

smeej 5y ago
I see their team working alongside the community in the forums trying to troubleshoot my issues and issues like them, but I haven't found solutions there and haven't contacted them directly.
- cyberpunk 5y ago
  For that kind of money, getting that kind of battery life would be a return from me.. I'd love to get off the apple train, but I can't go back after the battery life on my M1.. I can do two full 8 hour workdays without a charger on this thing... With VMs..

enricozb 5y ago

I have also had wireless issues, but since I've only installed NixOS I can't tell if it's because of the OS or some hardware issues. I also thing (again very minor) that the hinge is too loose. If I have it on my lap and type on it the hinge slowly opens up. I wish there was a stiffer hinge.

tortasaur 5y ago
What sort of issues? I'm also running NixOS on mine.
- enricozb 5y ago
  are you using NetworkManager? I'm using i3 so I use nmtui and I absolutely hate it. I much prefer iwctl, but that's not one of the supported options unfortunately... The main issues are just difficulty connecting to networks. When connected it usually works fine, sometimes DNS will randomly fail though.

gbuk2013 5y ago

It’s probably the USB-C dock - I have the same issues with a Lenovo laptop and Ubuntu 20 LTS but works fine without dock connected. On my phone now but there was a bug report I found to match this - apparently 5.14 kernel might work better but I haven’t been able to install it yet from the 3rd party repo. Update: this is the bug I think: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200977 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200977

smeej 5y ago
The Ethernet support might be the dock. The rest of the problems persist whether or not it's connected to the dock. But the dock also doesn't have Ethernet problems with any of my other devices.

losvedir 5y ago

I feel like this happens with any item. For example, I've been supremely happy with all the Apple laptops I've ever owned, but have seen others with a litany of problems. Could it be that you got a dud with some sort of hardware problem? Try contacting their support and maybe they'll let you exchange it or something.

aquaticsunset 5y ago

I have no issues with mine, except for the deep sleep one. The current prevailing theory on the forums suggests it's got something to do with PCIe Gen4 SSD firmware. The issue is widespread enough that I'm hopeful we'll see a fix soon enough. Otherwise I'm extremely happy with mine!

nafizh 5y ago

You have to go to bios and disable secure boot, then the battery doesn’t get drained anymore when the lid is closed. You also have to disable ps2 mouse emulation in bios, the mouse hypersensitivity goes away after that. I also enabled large text in accessibility so the text size is perfect and super high res with the 3:2 aspect screen, it’s fantastic. I just bought the framework and running ubuntu 21.10. I had some of the problems you mentioned but the forum has solutions to many. It’s a new product, and specially with Linux, I knew there would be some problems. You have to be willing to solve these problems o/w you should stay away from buying new hardware from a startup.

smeej 5y ago
Thank you for these directions! I'll give them a shot as soon as I get a chance and hopefully they'll make a difference!
- beckman466 5y ago
  awesome. i would be keen to get a little status report in a week if you could? others will then possibly be convinced to support the development and growth of Framework if they are searching HN through Algolia
  - oneepic 5y ago
    Or they'll be convinced to stay away, depending on the outcome...
amarshall 5y ago
> disable secure boot, then the battery doesn’t get drained anymore when the lid is closed Do you have a link to further elaboration and testing on this? Seems strange, and searching the forums is a bit difficult since the two terms get mentioned together a lot.
- pja 5y ago
  Secure boot currently results in the Linux kernel disabling hibernation for security reasons IIRC.

kkielhofner 5y ago

I'm with you. My configuration is more-or-less maxed out and at over $2500 it's one of the more regretful large purchases I've ever made. Current issues: - As has been noted time and time again, battery life is atrocious. As in unusable for even the travel time required for a three hour flight: factoring in the poor sleep, an hour at the airport, and time on the aircraft the battery is dead. Crazy for 2021/2022 - my eight year old Macbook does better. - Wifi. The Intel Wifi modules provided with the Framework are very poorly supported in Linux. I spent six hours the other night running additional ethernet drops because I just couldn't stand my workday routinely being interrupted by repeatedly disassociating from my AP (fixed with reboot). Even unloading and reloading the associated kernel modules wouldn't bring it back. - USB-C acts... Strange. I have two 4K displays using Displayport over USB-C and the Framework repeatedly fails to initialize them from boot. I have to do a strange dance (the steps of which I'm still figuring out) involving powering off the Framework, unplugging/re-plugging everything, and then rebooting until it magically works again. - Fan. The fan is crazy. I've settled on disabling turbo mode in Linux. - Build quality. I'm convinced if I drop this thing it's all over. All in all I'm mad at myself for spending over $3k on a productivity configuration centered around what is pretty much beta hardware. I should have known better. Anyway, there's hope for some of these issues as they seem to be releasing BIOS updates pretty regularly (currently running 3.07) but even then I need to USB boot to use their EFI update tool. Intel wifi should get better over time and worst case I can swap it out for Atheros or something. That said I think the battery, build, and fan issues are fundamental hardware design choices.

amarshall 5y ago
- Re WiFi: it's not specific to Framework, and are just bugs in Intel's Linux driver. See bug (and workaround and patches) in my report https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 as well as forum discussion https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on-the-framework-laptop/1844 https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on... - Re battery: Yup, battery life during sleep sucks, it seems like this is mostly an Intel 11th gen issue as S3 sleep went away and folks on Dell, Lenovo, etc., 11th gen hardware have similar issues. - Re Fan: it does seem to like to ramp up a bit too much even when components are not really that hot yet. - Re USB-C: have not used that, so cannot comment - Re build quality: yes, it is a bit flimsier than I would like (though have definitely used laptops that are way worse), but it is also lighter than competitors that are less so. I am mostly okay with that trade-off, others may not be. As you say, the company has been responsive and helpful on the community forums in a way the big players never have been, and the BIOS updates are fixing genuine issues and complaints with real release notes. It's not all great for sure, but there's lots of things that are a lot better than competitors.

thereddaikon 5y ago

They work fine under Windows. Ergo the problem isn't the laptop, its the driver support under Linux. In my experience current gen laptops except for certain ThinkPads and Clevos will have support issues in Linux. You get a much better experience using a model a year or two old because the community has had time to address any issues. The design goal of the Framework wasn't out of the box 100% Linux support, it was reparability. While they encourage Linux development on the platform, what hardware works best to meet their design goal may or may not already have Linux support.

smeej 5y ago
An awful lot of the reviews and hype have been touting Linux support, and this review in particular says it "just works." It doesn't, and I very much wish the company and reviewers had made that clearer.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  I suspect that many of the reviewers were running 21.04 as opposed to 21.10 which has been acknowledged still has support issues.
  - smeej 5y ago
    I've also been running 21.04, though, and had all the issues I mentioned above in that environment.
- aksss 5y ago
  I love linux distros but let me just say that anytime I hear "linux" and "just works" in the same sentence, I knowingly snicker to myself at the road that lies in front of that poor sucker. I "just works" with plenty of learning opportunities included for free.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    There was a time before current sleep issues where this was true. You could buy some laptops, install a decent distro and be on your way. Nowadays sleep issues are affecting most recent CPUs, I had a pretty poor experience on any laptop. I picked a Surface 2 because there was a community effort (linux-surface) and I still have the same sleep / freezing issues I had on day one, despite my model being covered in green checkmarks on the support page of the project. Unfortunately OSS is people working for free in their spare time and you can't expect much. Honestly I wish a company would come up and make a paid linux distro with proper support for one model. I'd be happy to pay for an operative system that works and it's not Mac OS or Windows, as they both suck pretty bad in their latest iterations. My ideal UX is the configuration of KDE I've used for years or my Sway setup, not window managers without tiling support and limited proprietary file managers which are designed for noobs.

satysin 5y ago

I am surprised by the review also. While not mine a friend owns a Framework laptop and I have spent many hours trying to help them get it working as well as the Dell Latitude it replaced. WiFi and power draw issues are the biggest two problems they continue to experience. Also while the screen is very nice it is let down by the resolution. It isn’t high enough to used at 2x scaling but non-integer scaling really hits battery and performance. I feel that was a terrible oversight. It is a shame as the laptops overall build quality is very good. Hopefully these common issues can be sorted properly as I would be interested in picking one up once it has rocked solid Linux support. Also a higher (or lower) resolution panel option would be nice. After all it is the Framework laptop, surely they should have different panel options :)

jandrese 5y ago
If I have to turn on scaling I always think I screwed up. I spent too much on pixel density that I can't even use, so now I have to make everything aliased just to read the text.

amarshall 5y ago

Re WiFi: this is a Linux driver bug, see my report for workaround and patches https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214693 as well as forums discussion https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on-the-framework-laptop/1844 https://community.frame.work/t/using-the-ax210-with-linux-on...

G3rn0ti 5y ago
BTW: You can buy the DIY version w/o the Intel WiFi board and bring your own that's more compatible.
- amarshall 5y ago
  Absolutely! I’d just already bought that one (not knowing the Linux driver issues) and, while considered buying another board, was fortunately able to find a workaround for the issue that fully resolves for me (just disables 802.11ax, which I don’t need presently anyway).

notpublic 5y ago

I have been using mine (64GB with Ubuntu 21.04, Gnome Flashback) for the past several months as my primary work laptop. I have not experienced any of the issues you mention. I like it so far. In fact, hardly notice it. Except maybe when I do sudo/login. I can use my fingerprint instead of password :). My earlier laptop was a 2012 MacBook Pro which gave up last year. I do have an M1 which is used exclusively for iOS dev. I did have to tweak few things mentioned in their community page/forum to get everything working. Two issues (which hasn't bothered me yet) - battery drain during suspend - gnome not supporting different scaling with multiple monitors (fixed in later version of gnome as I understand) edit: formatting

gaganyaan 5y ago

That's surprising to hear. I've had one for a few months now. I pulled the nvme drive from my old laptop, put it in the framework laptop, and it booted up and has been running great. I haven't had any issues opening a jpg/pdf, waking up from sleep, or wifi dying. Which isn't to disregard what you're experiencing, but maybe try updating the firmware? I've seen at least one email they sent out about new firmware that people should probably install if they haven't yet. And maybe try out a liveusb just to see if there's something weird in your installation?

kllrnohj 5y ago

> The machine also freezes if I try to open a jpg or a PDF from the file explorer. Just completely freezes. Fan spins up like crazy, but as I mentioned, I have 64GB of RAM in this thing. It should be able to open a single one-page scanned document from my own scanner. If there's anything wrong with the file, this is the computer that's making the file poorly. This almost certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with the framework itself. That sounds like a software bug all day long. Something about your OS install is broken or similar. The only other possibility seems like it'd be if the storage drive is broken. Which could then possibly be why you're experiencing so many other issues, if things like code pages are just failing to load or getting corrupted in the same way your JPG isn't able to load. But it seems like starting with a fsck or even a re-install seems like a good idea.

kodah 5y ago
> This almost certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with the framework itself. I mean... Kind of? It's pretty clear that they're driver issues. Hardware manufacturers have to make in-roads with OS teams to get these things delivered flawlessly, otherwise they have to wait for the community to build fixes. System76 and Lenovo do their best to get ahead of driver issues from what I've seen. I'm assuming a lot of this has to do with the fact that OP is running 21.10 rather than an LTS release.
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  But opening a jpeg or PDF doesn't really involve any drivers, so driver issues wouldn't explain why those specifically are failing to open. If opening anything caused random freezes, that'd suggest something like the GPU driver might be failing. But otherwise opening JPEGs & PDFs are just generic CPU work, there's no drivers for those.
  - smeej 5y ago
    To be clear, they open fine if I open a compatible program and then open them from within the program. They just freeze the system if I try to open them from the file explorer. I've not seen anything like this before.

philjohn 5y ago

Do those things work well on other laptops with Linux and the same CPU?

nrp 5y ago

We definitely want to help you resolve these issues. Most of them sound like specific compatibility challenges on Ubuntu 21.10. To be clear, I agree that we need to get better with new Ubuntu releases. We've been providing hardware to the team at Fedora and have full support out of the box with Fedora 35, but don't have a setup like that with Ubuntu yet. In the meantime, we've been recommending Ubuntu 21.04 because it does have full support and good stability with all updates applied: https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework-laptop/2722 https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework...

smeej 5y ago
I am running 21.04. All these problems are occurring on 21.04.
- nrp 5y ago
  In that case, we definitely want to understand what is occurring, because that is pretty unusual. I would recommend either commenting in the 21.04 thread or creating a new thread in our Linux sub-forum on this, so that both us and members of the community can help debug this: https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework-laptop/2722/131 https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework...
  - torstenvl 5y ago
    Hey. I don't have a Framework and I'm not in the market soon, so I'm not particularly invested in the underlying specifics here, but... As a general matter, I have seen this kind of sentiment a lot, and I don't think it's particularly helpful. This subthread OP clearly feels let down and potentially betrayed. Why would you respond by suggesting that the conversation goes private onto a forum Framework controls? Shifting the forum of the discussion to a place where one party has more power seems inherently questionable. I say that even though I have no reason to believe you all would do anything inappropriate, and my general view of your project is highly positive.
    - 5y ago

prophesi 5y ago

As a counterpoint, I've been running Fedora on my DIY Framework since mid-October without any issues (besides needing to install a Respin to get the required WiFi driver). Even upgraded from Fedora 34 to 35 just fine. Enabled deep sleep and it's working as intended, issues with WiFi have always been due to Spectrum's terrible non-fiber service, etc.

allochthon 5y ago

> The touch pad becomes hypersensitive. I haven't seen a lot of the problems you're seeing, but I definitely have seen this one. Not only is the touch pad hard to use because it's very sensitive, just using the builtin keyboard can accidentally cause the touch pad to be activated. I've read up on ways of fixing this in Linux, but I haven't quite found the trick to make the touch pad behave as well as the Mac touch pad, which is what I'm used to. I haven't even really found a fix yet, so I type very carefully, avoiding resting my hands on the laptop, when I'm not using an external keyboard.

jandrese 5y ago
Palm detection in Linux is a definite weak area. I have tried everything and still get spurious clicks when typing on pretty much every laptop.