5 ms·

Also parents are the caretakers of children. If they're sick or incapacitated or die, that's going to have a negative impact on children. As will having a great

by tdeck 5y ago

Also parents are the caretakers of children. If they're sick or incapacitated or die, that's going to have a negative impact on children. As will having a greater number of essential workers becoming sick or dying.

nradov 5y ago
How is that relevant? The parents will all inevitably be exposed eventually. It doesn't matter whether the exposure happens through one of their children or someone else.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  It doesn't matter how. It matters when.
  - toolz 5y ago
    No, it doesn't matter when, a parent dying when a kid is 10 is no different than when the kid is 11. Let's not pretend people are avoiding covid for multiple years here, because statistically they aren't.
    - hhmc 5y ago
      It does matter when. Outcomes are dramatically better if your local healthcare system isn't overloaded.
      - toolz 5y ago
        US staffed beds are down 7% for the year, what makes you think it's not getting worse?
        hhmc 5y ago
        For one, I don’t live in the US
        toolz 5y ago
        Well that really doesn't have anything to do with this conversation.
        hhmc 5y ago
        It feels like it's directly relevant to your claims about US hositpal beds
        toolz 5y ago
        I don't think I communicated my point well. A first world country is struggling to not decrease its capacity in hospitals, what makes you think the rest of the world won't have similar struggles?
    - jayd16 5y ago
      Mortality rates are creeping down and new therapeutics are coming in, though.
      - toolz 5y ago
        Mortality rates are going down because of the vaccine and natural immunity. I wouldn't hold my breath on any ground breaking therapeutics, we have plenty as it stands today.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      A parent catching covid after they are vaccinated and/or after there are better treatments is a parent far less likely to die. A parent catching covid with and without the hospitals currently being overrun is also a huge difference.
      - toolz 5y ago
        It'll be years before anything truly game changing hits the market. As for hospital capacity, we're down 7% from last year, there's no reason to believe we haven't screwed our economy/healthcare to the point it won't just get worse.
        kadoban 5y ago
        There's already far better treatments now than existed at the start. Look for all the small things that add up, not one silver bullet. Then there's vaccines which _are_ game changing. There's also new drug(s) coming in already, Pfizer's pill for instance.
        toolz 5y ago
        yeah we've heard miracle therapeutics for a year now, look at remdesivir, made more headlines than anything else and ended up doing nothing. Sacrificing months of life for the unlikely possibility of a therapeutic from a disease that's unlikely to do lasting harm isn't something I would do and I certainly would never sacrifice anyone else's months of life or demand that they do in order to give me that "off-chance". We have vaccines, that's what we planned on having, they are here now. Time to stop pretending we've not spent the past year and change screwing over poor people and move on with life. oh yeah, not to mention monoclonal antibodies are being denied by the federal government now, looks like even therapeutics might be dwindling in numbers. sounds crazy right? Yeah, yeah it does.
- basch 5y ago
  ECMO shortage
  - nradov 5y ago
    ECMO is a salvage therapy. Even if there were an infinite number of ECMO machines and trained operators that wouldn't significantly increase survival rates.
  - toolz 5y ago
    The US is down 7% on staffed beds since last year, exactly what makes you think shortages are getting better with time?
candiodari 5y ago
If it was not possible to establish a clear link between school class surges and infection rates in 2 years, then there is no link. The CDC does have a list on which places transmit the virus and restaurants/cafe/bar/dancing/... were 3 of the top 5 entries if memory serves. The remaining 2 were hospitals and doctors’ offices. Many places that people think would spread the virus don’t. For example anything outside is very safe, as are swimming pools. Outside it takes rock concert like crowd densities before clusters form. Viruses cannot deal, even for milliseconds, with uv light or rapid temperature changes and many places are already hardened against infection, and therefore quite safe, even with many people without face masks. Again, there’s a density limit, but it’s pretty high. One study did point out that risks in school and hospital settings are closely related to the quality of the ventilation system. And yet, I haven’t read even once about attempts to identify substandard facilities for kids/patients or money for improving them being allocated. And obviously, all data suggests smaller classes drastically reduce risk. Can’t find the list but here’s a study. Schools are not mentioned. Restaurants and any setting with on-site eating or drinking are the big vectors of infection it seems. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by tdeck 5y ago

nradov 5y ago

How is that relevant? The parents will all inevitably be exposed eventually. It doesn't matter whether the exposure happens through one of their children or someone else.

kelseyfrog 5y ago
It doesn't matter how. It matters when.
- toolz 5y ago
  No, it doesn't matter when, a parent dying when a kid is 10 is no different than when the kid is 11. Let's not pretend people are avoiding covid for multiple years here, because statistically they aren't.
  - hhmc 5y ago
    It does matter when. Outcomes are dramatically better if your local healthcare system isn't overloaded.
    - toolz 5y ago
      US staffed beds are down 7% for the year, what makes you think it's not getting worse?
      - hhmc 5y ago
        For one, I don’t live in the US
        toolz 5y ago
        Well that really doesn't have anything to do with this conversation.
        hhmc 5y ago
        It feels like it's directly relevant to your claims about US hositpal beds
        toolz 5y ago
        I don't think I communicated my point well. A first world country is struggling to not decrease its capacity in hospitals, what makes you think the rest of the world won't have similar struggles?
  - jayd16 5y ago
    Mortality rates are creeping down and new therapeutics are coming in, though.
    - toolz 5y ago
      Mortality rates are going down because of the vaccine and natural immunity. I wouldn't hold my breath on any ground breaking therapeutics, we have plenty as it stands today.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    A parent catching covid after they are vaccinated and/or after there are better treatments is a parent far less likely to die. A parent catching covid with and without the hospitals currently being overrun is also a huge difference.
    - toolz 5y ago
      It'll be years before anything truly game changing hits the market. As for hospital capacity, we're down 7% from last year, there's no reason to believe we haven't screwed our economy/healthcare to the point it won't just get worse.
      - kadoban 5y ago
        There's already far better treatments now than existed at the start. Look for all the small things that add up, not one silver bullet. Then there's vaccines which _are_ game changing. There's also new drug(s) coming in already, Pfizer's pill for instance.
        toolz 5y ago
        yeah we've heard miracle therapeutics for a year now, look at remdesivir, made more headlines than anything else and ended up doing nothing. Sacrificing months of life for the unlikely possibility of a therapeutic from a disease that's unlikely to do lasting harm isn't something I would do and I certainly would never sacrifice anyone else's months of life or demand that they do in order to give me that "off-chance". We have vaccines, that's what we planned on having, they are here now. Time to stop pretending we've not spent the past year and change screwing over poor people and move on with life. oh yeah, not to mention monoclonal antibodies are being denied by the federal government now, looks like even therapeutics might be dwindling in numbers. sounds crazy right? Yeah, yeah it does.
basch 5y ago
ECMO shortage
- nradov 5y ago
  ECMO is a salvage therapy. Even if there were an infinite number of ECMO machines and trained operators that wouldn't significantly increase survival rates.
- toolz 5y ago
  The US is down 7% on staffed beds since last year, exactly what makes you think shortages are getting better with time?

candiodari 5y ago

If it was not possible to establish a clear link between school class surges and infection rates in 2 years, then there is no link. The CDC does have a list on which places transmit the virus and restaurants/cafe/bar/dancing/... were 3 of the top 5 entries if memory serves. The remaining 2 were hospitals and doctors’ offices. Many places that people think would spread the virus don’t. For example anything outside is very safe, as are swimming pools. Outside it takes rock concert like crowd densities before clusters form. Viruses cannot deal, even for milliseconds, with uv light or rapid temperature changes and many places are already hardened against infection, and therefore quite safe, even with many people without face masks. Again, there’s a density limit, but it’s pretty high. One study did point out that risks in school and hospital settings are closely related to the quality of the ventilation system. And yet, I haven’t read even once about attempts to identify substandard facilities for kids/patients or money for improving them being allocated. And obviously, all data suggests smaller classes drastically reduce risk. Can’t find the list but here’s a study. Schools are not mentioned. Restaurants and any setting with on-site eating or drinking are the big vectors of infection it seems. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]