30 ms·

The weight of the clipboard

172 points by kinduff 5y ago

amelius 5y ago
Under X, the clipboard is especially heavy: you have two ways to copy and paste (Ctrl+c/v versus selection and middle mouse button), and Ctrl+v doesn't work in terminals. It's confusing.
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  Any good terminal emulator offers a way to Ctrl+v, e.g. in Konsole I paste by Ctrl+Shift+v. You could remap it to Ctrl+v if you so prefer.
  - amelius 5y ago
    I'm aware of that. But it makes it inconsistent across applications. I already use Ctrl+v in terminals to enter control codes.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  > It's confusing. It is also very useful, but if you don't want it many clipboard managers have a simple checkbox to just have one clipboard. For instance "synchronize clipboard" in this screenshot: https://www.putorius.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/gpaste-general-options-min.jpg.webp https://www.putorius.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/gpaste-g...
  - amelius 5y ago
    Interesting, I never looked into clipboard managers. I often have to copy X and Y coordinates from two fields to the same fields in another instance of the application. Is there an easy way to copy both values and only then switch to the other instance and paste them?
    - diffeomorphism 5y ago
      In Excel? Click on field X, press and hold ctrl and click on field Y to mark both fields, then just copy&paste should work. Otherwise this is up to the app. A generic clipboard has no concept of the content of X and Y being in different fields (because it has no clue what a "field" is). It just stores the content.
      - diffeomorphism 5y ago
        ... otherwise clipboard managers work like a stack. So you can copy X, then copy Y, paste Y, pop the stack, paste X. Or with primary selection: select X and press ctrl+c, select Y; ctrl+v to insert X, middle-click to insert Y.
aaron695 5y ago
Insightful. I would say it's the Zeigarnik effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeigarnik_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeigarnik_effect I find Clipboard managers remove this. Since putting it into the queue is a whole task.
- Veen 5y ago
  The Ovsiankina Effect mentioned in the article you linked seems more like it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovsiankina_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovsiankina_effect
- avnigo 5y ago
  Indeed, it is the weight of having something interrupted or unfinished. Putting it in a clipboard manager feels like the task is no longer weighing on your working memory, and it completes the first part by reaching a checkpoint.
  - kaetemi 5y ago
    It's like an interrupted task, but one that will be lost irrecoverably if it remains interrupted. Very similar to when you remember something that you want to write down before you forget it again.
jachee 5y ago
I mostly freed myself from that weight with a clipboard manager. LaunchBar[0] on macOS and CopyQ[1] everywhere else. It’s nice to know I can Cut1/Cut2/Cut3, then Paste2/Paste1/Paste3 to my heart’s content with no worries of overwriting the contents of the clipboard forever. It’s one capability I sometimes miss on my i(Pad)OS devices. [0] https://obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html https://obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html [1] https://hluk.github.io/CopyQ/ https://hluk.github.io/CopyQ/
- dag11 5y ago
  And just a FYI for Windows 10 users, during some update they recently added Win+V to show the system's built-in clipboard manager.
smasher164 5y ago
I've overwritten my clipboard multiple times by accident, so I think that weight is the fear of losing what I copied. To be honest, the clipboard bears the weight of so much productivity, even though by default, its functionality is pretty limited. It's the poor man's IPC, after all.
- sverhagen 5y ago
  "Responsibility" comes to (my) mind.
- jraph 5y ago
  You could use a clipboard manager to get rid of that weight. KDE comes with Klipper, which remembers the last N things you copied, and makes this N configurable (I do increase the default). It also provide a lot of nice features too, like search in the history, make the copied text into a QR Code or invoke an action on the copied text, make a preview entry the current one. I feel limited without a clipboard manager now.
gorgoiler 5y ago
Unify your vim clipboard with the system clipboard, they said. The integration is wonderful, they said. Well: 1/ copy URL from browser 2/ alt tab to vim notes 3/ delete old URL from notes 4/ paste new URL but get the old URL instead?! How do I do the FORTH equivalent of swapping the two items on the top of the stack (and have a stack in the first place)? :)
- avnigo 5y ago
  > 4/ paste new URL but get the old URL instead?! To paste the copied URL instead of the deleted one, you can paste from the 0 register by using "0p. Otherwise, depending on your system, pasting from the * or + registers (using "*p or "+p) will paste what you copied from the browser.
- jarenmf 5y ago
  If usually delete to another register to avoid that, "dd for example :)
  - normie3000 5y ago
    Doesn’t dd delete the line under the cursor?
    - Veen 5y ago
      dd deletes the line under the cursor. "dd deletes something into the d register (the " is part of the command that selects the register). "d selects the register. The second d is the delete command. So you could do something like "dd2w to delete the next two words and save them into the d register. The same thing works with any named register, so a less confusing example might have been "cd2w to delete into the c register.
      - Tyr42 5y ago
        There's also a dedicated null register "_, so "_d really just deletes it without storing it anywhere. But I agree _ is harder to reach than d. I also really like junegunn/vim-peekaboo, which really helps if I know I copied something, but I'm not sure how far down the stack it is.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
The ux on this small clipboard is terrible.
chewxy 5y ago
With a kill ring you can ignore this weight. Problem?
james-bcn 5y ago
I think it's because when you copy something to clipboard you are also putting a note in your short term memory about it. Our short term memory isn't very good, with only a few slots for storage. A way around this could be for a mini-image of the contents of the clipboard to be displayed in a corner of the screen somewhere.
- cmason 5y ago
  Newton OS used to do exactly this and it worked really well. You could enable multiple clip boards via and extension.
awinter-py 5y ago
like all external brains, the clipboard forces you to confront 'thinking without knowing', which can be dissonant and slow, and requires browse and search strategies rather than leaping to conclusions. john crowley's little big is sort of about this
ggm 5y ago
There are days I wish the clipboard was skeuomorphic with semi infinite undo, and a meta state of from where pasted into what.
geocrasher 5y ago
I stopped worrying about it when I installed the Ditto clipboard Manager[0]. It keeps everything, so don't have to keep track of what I copied in my short term memory. I offloaded that task to the computer. Turns out they're good at that kind of thing. I wrote about it back in 2016 on my very ugly website: https://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2016/02/clipboard-manager/ https://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2016/02/clipboard-manager/ [0]https://ditto-cp.sourceforge.io/ https://ditto-cp.sourceforge.io/
- leokennis 5y ago
  It’s such an unassuming piece of software but it might be the most important executable on my laptop. It’s basically an instant notebook. Find anything remotely interesting? Just CTRL-C it and it’s there whenever I need it.
- dmortin 5y ago
  I use ditto too and set it so it has everyting I copied in the last 2 weeks. It's really nice to be able to instantly retrieve some text which I copied 4 days ago, for example.
- whoibrar 5y ago
  I was using ditto then later found clipdiary[0] It was super easy to customise and once I'd setup shortcuts for everything, never needed to open the app window in 2+yrs [0](http://clipdiary.com/ http://clipdiary.com/)
- manjana 5y ago
  Windows also comes with a native clipboard manager. Win+v to use it.
  - geocrasher 5y ago
    Last I checked, it wasn't as good as Ditto. Plus, Ditto is burned into my workflow now, just as much as AutoHotKey is :)
    - 5y ago
grimgrin 5y ago
This is a lovely nugget of thought If anything, replies here should suggest the missing word
Rygian 5y ago
To all of you who stopped worrying thanks to a clipboard manager, how do you handle sensitive contents in your clipboard? For example, I routinely copy-paste my passwords from KeePass, and I have disabled all clipboard management to avoid copies of my passwords lingering around.
- dmortin 5y ago
  If you copy your password then use it and then delete the item from the clipboard manager manually.
  - Rygian 5y ago
    I seem to have drifted to the exact opposite: no clipboard manager, and when I want to cut/copy something and have it persist for longer, I just paste it in a notepad application. I copy/paste passwords much more often than I require multiple clipboard entries alive together.
- WayToDoor 5y ago
  At least on MacOS "sensitive" contents copied to clipboard by apps can be marked as such, and won't be persisted by my clipboard manager.
  - BoardsOfCanada 5y ago
    Which clipboard manager do you use?
  - tuxone 5y ago
    I see this happening also with the default clipboard manager in windows and 1password - copied passwords do not show up in the clipboard menu (downside they are not pastable in VMs either)
    - egeozcan 5y ago
      I wonder what API they use, in the .NET API I don't see any option to set content as sensitive: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.clipboard?view=windowsdesktop-6.0 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.c... edit: ah, nevermind, it's just not exposed to .NET, search for "CanIncludeInClipboardHistory" here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/dataxchg/clipboard-formats https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/dataxchg/clip... edit2: also some ideas to use the API from autohotkey for concerned people like me: https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=97251 https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=97251
shinycode 5y ago
I had the same weight feeling for years until I discovered clipboard management software. It changed everything
function_seven 5y ago
I have a tangentially related issue. It's completely irrational, but I can't shake it. Sometimes when writing code, I need to add a block that looks a lot like an existing one, so I'll copy it and paste just below. (Yes, I know, DRY. Sue me :) The irrational part comes in when it's time for me to make the tweaks. Maybe I'm working on a yaml config file, and I need to specify two objects that are mostly the same, with minor changes to one of them. I'll make sure I'm working on "the copy", and not "the original". So, let's say I start with this: - author: E. Hemingway title: The Old Man and the Sea medium: hardcover edition: 1 published: 1952 And the project manager says I need to add the second edition paperback to the list. I'll find that block, copy the whole thing, and *then make sure I don't disturb the "original": - author: E. Hemingway title: The Old Man and the Sea medium: hardcover edition: 1 published: 1952 - author: E. Hemingway title: The Old Man and the Sea medium: trade edition: 2 published: 1953 Basically, I've internalized that my bits have a color[1]. [1] https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23
- ccalloway 5y ago
  It makes some sense. You don't want to accidentally make some of your edits on one version and some of them on the other version. That would mean that you end up with wrong data, and also have to slowly unwind your changes correctly, if you want to get back the original. So you have to arbitrarily choose one and keep in your mind that that's the one to be edited. You could choose the 'bottom' one. But because object persistence is pervasive, you choose the 'new' one.
- samatman 5y ago
  This is very closely related to a merge problem git can't solve which pijul can. Bits have a colour, sure, but they have a(t least one) history as well, and that at least can be reasoned about mathematically.
  - function_seven 5y ago
    The irrationality comes from the fact that I end up with exactly the same text file no matter what. My edit path (directed graph of atomic edits that arrive at the new file) can go many ways to the same result, but I find myself hating one path, and liking another. Even in the "good" path results in more keystrokes during editing. When I save my changes to git or svn or whatever, the new file will be the same regardless of edit path taken to create it. But during the editing operations, I had a nagging pull to make sure the characters I changed were from the copy.
matthewhartmans 5y ago
Nice little piece of writing - thanks for sharing. One of the key things I can't go without now in my workflow is a clipboard manager. I use Rofi (https://github.com/davatorium/rofi https://github.com/davatorium/rofi) in combination with Greenclip (https://github.com/erebe/greenclip https://github.com/erebe/greenclip) and it's a Godsend. I have a custom keybinding (super key + c) that will bring up the Rofi menu to fuzzy search through previously copied items or pinned items. Super handy when writing code, finding old snippets, etc. Can't recommend it enough.
howaboutnope 5y ago
> It happens when I cut something with ctrl + X. Not to me, because in the software I use the thing gets actually deleted once I paste it somewhere else, not before. It's more like tagging the thing(s) for moving to a location to be disclosed later.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  It could get deleted in other ways (for instance YouTube has this horrible habit of deleting your comment in progress when you finish watching a video). I always use cut (+ immediately paste back if needed) rather than copy because it gives me the visual confirmation that the object has indeed been put in the buffer.
mavci 5y ago
I am using Maccy[0] for a while and I believe this app should be default feature in the all operating systems. [0] https://maccy.app/ https://maccy.app/
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  Can you say a bit more about how it compares to other clipboard apps? From a quick look over the website I see no feature to prefer it over included standard clipboard managers like klipper, glipper, parcellite,... (or any from https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Clipboard#Managers https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Clipboard#Managers) and whatever win+V on windows is called.
nvalis 5y ago
Wow, this is an amazing description of the feeling I always felt but never explicitly verbalized.
thanatos519 5y ago
My heaviest clipboard is when I exit GIMP and it copies the gigabyte image I had in its clipboard to the system clipboard as a PNG. :)
asimjalis 5y ago
Is there a clipboard manager with a simple command line interface or perhaps a Python integration?
enricozb 5y ago
Does anyone have a solution to sync clipboards across: 1. The system (XServer) 2. A terminal text editor (Kakoune) 3. The same text editor on another system over ssh I currently have 1 & 2 sync'd ok, but 3 is only one-way. I use the OSC 52 escape sequence (supported by my terminal) to sync a copy on 3 to 1. But I have not figured out how to sync from 1 to 3.
- glandium 5y ago
  Are you implying you have a solution to sync the X selection buffer and the X clipboard?
  - enricozb 5y ago
    I might be misunderstanding you. I have a setup such that: When I yank to the "kakoune clipboard buffer" in kakoune (a terminal text editor), the X clipboard is updated (again through OSC 52). When I copy something to the X clipboard (either on chrome or some other program), the "kakoune clipboard buffer" is updated [0]. [0]: technically, the kakoune clipboard buffer updates itself from the X clipboard when it is read from.
perceptronas 5y ago
I cannot relate to the article. If I cut files and do nothing - they are not deleted from the origin. If I cut text - texts are versioned and backed up with git or similar alternative. Even if I would lose something, it wouldn't take too much time to restore it. If its a password - 99% of them can be recovered
SjorsVG 5y ago
I feel this because I know I could lose what I copied. It's the knowledge that I haven't completed some action and it's in an unsafe state.
CyberShadow 5y ago
I'm working on a clipboard manager, because I'm not happy with any of the ones currently available. Here are my design goals: - The system should be able to efficiently store, manipulate, and search an unlimited number of clipboard entries with reasonable performance. - The software should be cross-platform, and should have implementations for major desktop platforms (Windows, X11, Wayland, macOS). - Non-text data (images) and rich text (e.g. HTML) should be supported. - Clipboard history can be shared across instances using a network connection. - Instances may temporarily go offline, and sync up with other instances once a connection is re-established. - - All functionality should continue to be available when offline (other than sync). - Deletions must be propagated across instances. - Deleted clips must not be trivially recoverable. - Deleted clips must be deleted everywhere, including any copies in OS clipboards. - Sync should be incremental (and otherwise generally efficient). - When connected, actions should propagate across instances in real time (instantly, as opposed to polling, and with no unnecessary roundtrips). - Relaying should be supported (in a `A <-> B <-> C` scheme, A should be able to see C's actions). - Network topology cycles should not result in a feedback loop. - It should be safe and easy to simply copy the database file to another host, "pre-seeding" the clipboard history. - Support "portable installs" (carrying the software, configuration, and database on portable storage). - It should be easy to write interoperable implementations of bridges/clients in most programming languages. - Non-GUI functionality should be separated (or separatable) from GUI functionality, so that a GUI toolkit doesn't need to be loaded at all times. Any suggestions?
- sholladay 5y ago
  The Paste app satisfies most of these requirements, though it’s Mac only for now. It is easily one of my favorite apps on any device. https://pasteapp.io/ https://pasteapp.io/
- jtsiskin 5y ago
  Your desired syncing behavior sounds like couchDB
- BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
  As someone who used to work with spreadsheets extensively at a bank, I can tell you that some kind of stack/queue functionality would be a godsend. For instance, in this mode you hit Ctrl+C five times, then the subsequent five Ctrl+V actions paste the data in FIFO order. It may not seem like much, but going in between app windows in order to grab data is a big time sink. Being able to copy items sequentially and then paste them sequentially would be a killer app in most Excel heavy office workflows. You could also add a toggle for LIFO, or maybe some keyboard shortcut / chording for toggling modes while the user is pasting. I had actually tried to implement this as a hobby project but truthfully, my MVP was rudimentary at best because I’m inexperienced at COM+ and developing for the Windows Shell. Edit: I’m using ‘Stack/Queue’ loosely, not in the rigid data structure term of art way.
Jerrrry 5y ago
people worrying about their clipboard contents vs. malware capturing keystrokes is baffling. you may as well keep your passwords in a plaintext file.
DecoPerson 5y ago
While writing & editing code, and only while doing that, I have a tic that looks insane to onlookers. The last comment I received was “Why the hell are you tapping the caps-lock key non-stop?” I don’t know why I do it. It helps me think, though. Maybe any of the keys on the keyboard would satisfy my cravings to tap a key repeatedly, but I unconsciously chose capslock because it’s mostly benign to press. Perhaps it’s the toggling of the capslock state that tickles my neurons? I don’t know! Similarly, I felt very strongly about the contents of my clipboard while doing any input on a real keyboard , until I discovered IntelliJ’s clipboard history feature (Ctrl+Shift+V) and more broadly Window’s terrible but sufficiently functional version (Win+V). The emotions I felt about clipboard contents were intense. I had to have something small, succinct, and simple in my clipboard like a single word, so that I could spam Ctrl+V and Ctrl+Z constantly without consequence, just like my capslock tic. I do wonder if my fidgeting helped me learn editor shortcuts, because while I’m never quick enough to meet my own editing-speed goals, my editor fu earned me the title of “Text Wizard” at one company. It’s fun blowing peoples’ minds by smoothly executing a column-based edit on thousands of lines of data, saving them potentially hours of manual editing. Aside: A coworker once called a one-line regex a “dark incantation,” and a forty-line regex I wrote on someone else’s’ PC earned the title of “Cthulhu’s Lullaby.” Good text editing skills is a superpower in our age (for many but obviously not all occupations).
- yepthatsreality 5y ago
  The tapping is from anxiety. You’re defaulting to a common action. Some people chew their finger nails, some use a fidget spinner. If you want to stop, identify when you’re doing the habit and catch and control yourself, relax, and identify the anxiety.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    I read once some intelligent people still have some process cycles left when working out code and it's uneasing to them so their brains automatically adds another soothing activities to fill the void. For one of my coworker it was either whistling, feet tapping or pen clicking. To the point that another coworker regularly stand up from his chair, walked to him and put a spongy stress ball in his hands. Without saying a word, was funny the first time :D.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
I'm happy someone has vocalized this same nagging feeling I have had for all these years. I just wish it had been addressed instead in the form of haiku. Maybe someone can try. The other thing that has bothered me all these years: Head down and typing, Whoops, no text field selected. Where did the text go?
- cecilpl2 5y ago
  I have cut some text, Now a new feeling haunts me. I must paste it, MUST.
  - myself248 5y ago
    I'm sure the clipboard holds the text I want. Into the app I confidently paste. It's bold italic and a funky font! Why does this always blow up in my face?
- TuringTest 5y ago
  Jef Raskin in The Humane Interface complained about that very problem. He designed a whole user interaction paradigm to solve it, so that the system would always be in a state where your typed text would be registered, right there. It goes well with the aphorism and commandment that "user input is sacred", which all current user interfaces disregard big time.
- sundarurfriend 5y ago
  Control-X some text Burden of summer's first ant Paste it, light once more.
yboris 5y ago
I developed a bad habit of not wanting anything in my clipboard after I've used it, so I usually copy the letter `e` (or something similarly unimportant). It's almost like an OCD at this point (in the browser, CTRL + L, 'e', backspace, CTRL + A, CTRL + C, esc). One of my new-year's resolutions is literally to stop doing this silliness.
syspec 5y ago
On MacOS I find Paste works really well. It tracks your last N items, shows previews of images, has search, clean UI, does not store items from 1Password (ignored app list is editable) Ticks all the boxes https://pasteapp.io https://pasteapp.io
jFriedensreich 5y ago
I have exactly this feeling and still paste somewhere or copy garbage to get rid of it though for macOS i use yippy as clipboard manager and it improved the feeling of being in control a lot. similar ticks exist for undo history and saving as well as browser navigation. I wonder if this is something normal people experience or if it is connected to my strong adhd.
FigmentEngine 5y ago
sounds like "cognitive load" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load
carapace 5y ago
It's rare to find people reifying these subtle subjective aspects of UI design so clearly. Transience is a deep problem in UI design. Everything from accidentally kicking out the cord and losing your (unsaved) work, to accidentally copying a selection and clobbering the previous contents of the clipboard (that you still also want to paste again too.) Modal dialogs, modes in general, un-undoable changes of all kinds. It's kind of like our UIs are video games in the sense that they are harder to use than they should be. Video games have to have some sort of challenge or they get boring, eh?
whoomp12342 5y ago
doesnt windows have a clipboard manager built in?

172 points by kinduff 5y ago

Under X, the clipboard is especially heavy: you have two ways to copy and paste (Ctrl+c/v versus selection and middle mouse button), and Ctrl+v doesn't work in terminals. It's confusing.

Denvercoder9 5y ago
Any good terminal emulator offers a way to Ctrl+v, e.g. in Konsole I paste by Ctrl+Shift+v. You could remap it to Ctrl+v if you so prefer.
- amelius 5y ago
  I'm aware of that. But it makes it inconsistent across applications. I already use Ctrl+v in terminals to enter control codes.
diffeomorphism 5y ago
> It's confusing. It is also very useful, but if you don't want it many clipboard managers have a simple checkbox to just have one clipboard. For instance "synchronize clipboard" in this screenshot: https://www.putorius.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/gpaste-general-options-min.jpg.webp https://www.putorius.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/gpaste-g...
- amelius 5y ago
  Interesting, I never looked into clipboard managers. I often have to copy X and Y coordinates from two fields to the same fields in another instance of the application. Is there an easy way to copy both values and only then switch to the other instance and paste them?
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    In Excel? Click on field X, press and hold ctrl and click on field Y to mark both fields, then just copy&paste should work. Otherwise this is up to the app. A generic clipboard has no concept of the content of X and Y being in different fields (because it has no clue what a "field" is). It just stores the content.
    - diffeomorphism 5y ago
      ... otherwise clipboard managers work like a stack. So you can copy X, then copy Y, paste Y, pop the stack, paste X. Or with primary selection: select X and press ctrl+c, select Y; ctrl+v to insert X, middle-click to insert Y.

aaron695 5y ago

Insightful. I would say it's the Zeigarnik effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeigarnik_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeigarnik_effect I find Clipboard managers remove this. Since putting it into the queue is a whole task.

Veen 5y ago
The Ovsiankina Effect mentioned in the article you linked seems more like it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovsiankina_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovsiankina_effect
avnigo 5y ago
Indeed, it is the weight of having something interrupted or unfinished. Putting it in a clipboard manager feels like the task is no longer weighing on your working memory, and it completes the first part by reaching a checkpoint.
- kaetemi 5y ago
  It's like an interrupted task, but one that will be lost irrecoverably if it remains interrupted. Very similar to when you remember something that you want to write down before you forget it again.

jachee 5y ago

I mostly freed myself from that weight with a clipboard manager. LaunchBar[0] on macOS and CopyQ[1] everywhere else. It’s nice to know I can Cut1/Cut2/Cut3, then Paste2/Paste1/Paste3 to my heart’s content with no worries of overwriting the contents of the clipboard forever. It’s one capability I sometimes miss on my i(Pad)OS devices. [0] https://obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html https://obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html [1] https://hluk.github.io/CopyQ/ https://hluk.github.io/CopyQ/

dag11 5y ago
And just a FYI for Windows 10 users, during some update they recently added Win+V to show the system's built-in clipboard manager.

smasher164 5y ago

I've overwritten my clipboard multiple times by accident, so I think that weight is the fear of losing what I copied. To be honest, the clipboard bears the weight of so much productivity, even though by default, its functionality is pretty limited. It's the poor man's IPC, after all.

sverhagen 5y ago
"Responsibility" comes to (my) mind.
jraph 5y ago
You could use a clipboard manager to get rid of that weight. KDE comes with Klipper, which remembers the last N things you copied, and makes this N configurable (I do increase the default). It also provide a lot of nice features too, like search in the history, make the copied text into a QR Code or invoke an action on the copied text, make a preview entry the current one. I feel limited without a clipboard manager now.

gorgoiler 5y ago

Unify your vim clipboard with the system clipboard, they said. The integration is wonderful, they said. Well: 1/ copy URL from browser 2/ alt tab to vim notes 3/ delete old URL from notes 4/ paste new URL but get the old URL instead?! How do I do the FORTH equivalent of swapping the two items on the top of the stack (and have a stack in the first place)? :)

avnigo 5y ago
> 4/ paste new URL but get the old URL instead?! To paste the copied URL instead of the deleted one, you can paste from the 0 register by using "0p. Otherwise, depending on your system, pasting from the * or + registers (using "*p or "+p) will paste what you copied from the browser.
jarenmf 5y ago
If usually delete to another register to avoid that, "dd for example :)
- normie3000 5y ago
  Doesn’t dd delete the line under the cursor?
  - Veen 5y ago
    dd deletes the line under the cursor. "dd deletes something into the d register (the " is part of the command that selects the register). "d selects the register. The second d is the delete command. So you could do something like "dd2w to delete the next two words and save them into the d register. The same thing works with any named register, so a less confusing example might have been "cd2w to delete into the c register.
    - Tyr42 5y ago
      There's also a dedicated null register "_, so "_d really just deletes it without storing it anywhere. But I agree _ is harder to reach than d. I also really like junegunn/vim-peekaboo, which really helps if I know I copied something, but I'm not sure how far down the stack it is.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

The ux on this small clipboard is terrible.

chewxy 5y ago

With a kill ring you can ignore this weight. Problem?

james-bcn 5y ago

I think it's because when you copy something to clipboard you are also putting a note in your short term memory about it. Our short term memory isn't very good, with only a few slots for storage. A way around this could be for a mini-image of the contents of the clipboard to be displayed in a corner of the screen somewhere.

cmason 5y ago
Newton OS used to do exactly this and it worked really well. You could enable multiple clip boards via and extension.

awinter-py 5y ago

like all external brains, the clipboard forces you to confront 'thinking without knowing', which can be dissonant and slow, and requires browse and search strategies rather than leaping to conclusions. john crowley's little big is sort of about this

ggm 5y ago

There are days I wish the clipboard was skeuomorphic with semi infinite undo, and a meta state of from where pasted into what.

geocrasher 5y ago

I stopped worrying about it when I installed the Ditto clipboard Manager[0]. It keeps everything, so don't have to keep track of what I copied in my short term memory. I offloaded that task to the computer. Turns out they're good at that kind of thing. I wrote about it back in 2016 on my very ugly website: https://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2016/02/clipboard-manager/ https://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2016/02/clipboard-manager/ [0]https://ditto-cp.sourceforge.io/ https://ditto-cp.sourceforge.io/

leokennis 5y ago
It’s such an unassuming piece of software but it might be the most important executable on my laptop. It’s basically an instant notebook. Find anything remotely interesting? Just CTRL-C it and it’s there whenever I need it.
dmortin 5y ago
I use ditto too and set it so it has everyting I copied in the last 2 weeks. It's really nice to be able to instantly retrieve some text which I copied 4 days ago, for example.
whoibrar 5y ago
I was using ditto then later found clipdiary[0] It was super easy to customise and once I'd setup shortcuts for everything, never needed to open the app window in 2+yrs [0](http://clipdiary.com/ http://clipdiary.com/)
manjana 5y ago
Windows also comes with a native clipboard manager. Win+v to use it.
- geocrasher 5y ago
  Last I checked, it wasn't as good as Ditto. Plus, Ditto is burned into my workflow now, just as much as AutoHotKey is :)
  - 5y ago

grimgrin 5y ago

This is a lovely nugget of thought If anything, replies here should suggest the missing word

Rygian 5y ago

To all of you who stopped worrying thanks to a clipboard manager, how do you handle sensitive contents in your clipboard? For example, I routinely copy-paste my passwords from KeePass, and I have disabled all clipboard management to avoid copies of my passwords lingering around.

dmortin 5y ago
If you copy your password then use it and then delete the item from the clipboard manager manually.
- Rygian 5y ago
  I seem to have drifted to the exact opposite: no clipboard manager, and when I want to cut/copy something and have it persist for longer, I just paste it in a notepad application. I copy/paste passwords much more often than I require multiple clipboard entries alive together.
WayToDoor 5y ago
At least on MacOS "sensitive" contents copied to clipboard by apps can be marked as such, and won't be persisted by my clipboard manager.
- BoardsOfCanada 5y ago
  Which clipboard manager do you use?
- tuxone 5y ago
  I see this happening also with the default clipboard manager in windows and 1password - copied passwords do not show up in the clipboard menu (downside they are not pastable in VMs either)
  - egeozcan 5y ago
    I wonder what API they use, in the .NET API I don't see any option to set content as sensitive: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.clipboard?view=windowsdesktop-6.0 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.c... edit: ah, nevermind, it's just not exposed to .NET, search for "CanIncludeInClipboardHistory" here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/dataxchg/clipboard-formats https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/dataxchg/clip... edit2: also some ideas to use the API from autohotkey for concerned people like me: https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=97251 https://www.autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=97251

shinycode 5y ago

I had the same weight feeling for years until I discovered clipboard management software. It changed everything

function_seven 5y ago

I have a tangentially related issue. It's completely irrational, but I can't shake it. Sometimes when writing code, I need to add a block that looks a lot like an existing one, so I'll copy it and paste just below. (Yes, I know, DRY. Sue me :) The irrational part comes in when it's time for me to make the tweaks. Maybe I'm working on a yaml config file, and I need to specify two objects that are mostly the same, with minor changes to one of them. I'll make sure I'm working on "the copy", and not "the original". So, let's say I start with this: - author: E. Hemingway title: The Old Man and the Sea medium: hardcover edition: 1 published: 1952 And the project manager says I need to add the second edition paperback to the list. I'll find that block, copy the whole thing, and *then make sure I don't disturb the "original": - author: E. Hemingway title: The Old Man and the Sea medium: hardcover edition: 1 published: 1952 - author: E. Hemingway title: The Old Man and the Sea medium: trade edition: 2 published: 1953 Basically, I've internalized that my bits have a color[1]. [1] https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

ccalloway 5y ago
It makes some sense. You don't want to accidentally make some of your edits on one version and some of them on the other version. That would mean that you end up with wrong data, and also have to slowly unwind your changes correctly, if you want to get back the original. So you have to arbitrarily choose one and keep in your mind that that's the one to be edited. You could choose the 'bottom' one. But because object persistence is pervasive, you choose the 'new' one.
samatman 5y ago
This is very closely related to a merge problem git can't solve which pijul can. Bits have a colour, sure, but they have a(t least one) history as well, and that at least can be reasoned about mathematically.
- function_seven 5y ago
  The irrationality comes from the fact that I end up with exactly the same text file no matter what. My edit path (directed graph of atomic edits that arrive at the new file) can go many ways to the same result, but I find myself hating one path, and liking another. Even in the "good" path results in more keystrokes during editing. When I save my changes to git or svn or whatever, the new file will be the same regardless of edit path taken to create it. But during the editing operations, I had a nagging pull to make sure the characters I changed were from the copy.

matthewhartmans 5y ago

Nice little piece of writing - thanks for sharing. One of the key things I can't go without now in my workflow is a clipboard manager. I use Rofi (https://github.com/davatorium/rofi https://github.com/davatorium/rofi) in combination with Greenclip (https://github.com/erebe/greenclip https://github.com/erebe/greenclip) and it's a Godsend. I have a custom keybinding (super key + c) that will bring up the Rofi menu to fuzzy search through previously copied items or pinned items. Super handy when writing code, finding old snippets, etc. Can't recommend it enough.

howaboutnope 5y ago

> It happens when I cut something with ctrl + X. Not to me, because in the software I use the thing gets actually deleted once I paste it somewhere else, not before. It's more like tagging the thing(s) for moving to a location to be disclosed later.

BlueTemplar 5y ago
It could get deleted in other ways (for instance YouTube has this horrible habit of deleting your comment in progress when you finish watching a video). I always use cut (+ immediately paste back if needed) rather than copy because it gives me the visual confirmation that the object has indeed been put in the buffer.

mavci 5y ago

I am using Maccy[0] for a while and I believe this app should be default feature in the all operating systems. [0] https://maccy.app/ https://maccy.app/

diffeomorphism 5y ago
Can you say a bit more about how it compares to other clipboard apps? From a quick look over the website I see no feature to prefer it over included standard clipboard managers like klipper, glipper, parcellite,... (or any from https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Clipboard#Managers https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Clipboard#Managers) and whatever win+V on windows is called.

nvalis 5y ago

Wow, this is an amazing description of the feeling I always felt but never explicitly verbalized.

thanatos519 5y ago

My heaviest clipboard is when I exit GIMP and it copies the gigabyte image I had in its clipboard to the system clipboard as a PNG. :)

asimjalis 5y ago

Is there a clipboard manager with a simple command line interface or perhaps a Python integration?

enricozb 5y ago

Does anyone have a solution to sync clipboards across: 1. The system (XServer) 2. A terminal text editor (Kakoune) 3. The same text editor on another system over ssh I currently have 1 & 2 sync'd ok, but 3 is only one-way. I use the OSC 52 escape sequence (supported by my terminal) to sync a copy on 3 to 1. But I have not figured out how to sync from 1 to 3.

glandium 5y ago
Are you implying you have a solution to sync the X selection buffer and the X clipboard?
- enricozb 5y ago
  I might be misunderstanding you. I have a setup such that: When I yank to the "kakoune clipboard buffer" in kakoune (a terminal text editor), the X clipboard is updated (again through OSC 52). When I copy something to the X clipboard (either on chrome or some other program), the "kakoune clipboard buffer" is updated [0]. [0]: technically, the kakoune clipboard buffer updates itself from the X clipboard when it is read from.

perceptronas 5y ago

I cannot relate to the article. If I cut files and do nothing - they are not deleted from the origin. If I cut text - texts are versioned and backed up with git or similar alternative. Even if I would lose something, it wouldn't take too much time to restore it. If its a password - 99% of them can be recovered

SjorsVG 5y ago

I feel this because I know I could lose what I copied. It's the knowledge that I haven't completed some action and it's in an unsafe state.

CyberShadow 5y ago

I'm working on a clipboard manager, because I'm not happy with any of the ones currently available. Here are my design goals: - The system should be able to efficiently store, manipulate, and search an unlimited number of clipboard entries with reasonable performance. - The software should be cross-platform, and should have implementations for major desktop platforms (Windows, X11, Wayland, macOS). - Non-text data (images) and rich text (e.g. HTML) should be supported. - Clipboard history can be shared across instances using a network connection. - Instances may temporarily go offline, and sync up with other instances once a connection is re-established. - - All functionality should continue to be available when offline (other than sync). - Deletions must be propagated across instances. - Deleted clips must not be trivially recoverable. - Deleted clips must be deleted everywhere, including any copies in OS clipboards. - Sync should be incremental (and otherwise generally efficient). - When connected, actions should propagate across instances in real time (instantly, as opposed to polling, and with no unnecessary roundtrips). - Relaying should be supported (in a `A <-> B <-> C` scheme, A should be able to see C's actions). - Network topology cycles should not result in a feedback loop. - It should be safe and easy to simply copy the database file to another host, "pre-seeding" the clipboard history. - Support "portable installs" (carrying the software, configuration, and database on portable storage). - It should be easy to write interoperable implementations of bridges/clients in most programming languages. - Non-GUI functionality should be separated (or separatable) from GUI functionality, so that a GUI toolkit doesn't need to be loaded at all times. Any suggestions?

sholladay 5y ago
The Paste app satisfies most of these requirements, though it’s Mac only for now. It is easily one of my favorite apps on any device. https://pasteapp.io/ https://pasteapp.io/
jtsiskin 5y ago
Your desired syncing behavior sounds like couchDB
BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
As someone who used to work with spreadsheets extensively at a bank, I can tell you that some kind of stack/queue functionality would be a godsend. For instance, in this mode you hit Ctrl+C five times, then the subsequent five Ctrl+V actions paste the data in FIFO order. It may not seem like much, but going in between app windows in order to grab data is a big time sink. Being able to copy items sequentially and then paste them sequentially would be a killer app in most Excel heavy office workflows. You could also add a toggle for LIFO, or maybe some keyboard shortcut / chording for toggling modes while the user is pasting. I had actually tried to implement this as a hobby project but truthfully, my MVP was rudimentary at best because I’m inexperienced at COM+ and developing for the Windows Shell. Edit: I’m using ‘Stack/Queue’ loosely, not in the rigid data structure term of art way.

Jerrrry 5y ago

people worrying about their clipboard contents vs. malware capturing keystrokes is baffling. you may as well keep your passwords in a plaintext file.

DecoPerson 5y ago

While writing & editing code, and only while doing that, I have a tic that looks insane to onlookers. The last comment I received was “Why the hell are you tapping the caps-lock key non-stop?” I don’t know why I do it. It helps me think, though. Maybe any of the keys on the keyboard would satisfy my cravings to tap a key repeatedly, but I unconsciously chose capslock because it’s mostly benign to press. Perhaps it’s the toggling of the capslock state that tickles my neurons? I don’t know! Similarly, I felt very strongly about the contents of my clipboard while doing any input on a real keyboard , until I discovered IntelliJ’s clipboard history feature (Ctrl+Shift+V) and more broadly Window’s terrible but sufficiently functional version (Win+V). The emotions I felt about clipboard contents were intense. I had to have something small, succinct, and simple in my clipboard like a single word, so that I could spam Ctrl+V and Ctrl+Z constantly without consequence, just like my capslock tic. I do wonder if my fidgeting helped me learn editor shortcuts, because while I’m never quick enough to meet my own editing-speed goals, my editor fu earned me the title of “Text Wizard” at one company. It’s fun blowing peoples’ minds by smoothly executing a column-based edit on thousands of lines of data, saving them potentially hours of manual editing. Aside: A coworker once called a one-line regex a “dark incantation,” and a forty-line regex I wrote on someone else’s’ PC earned the title of “Cthulhu’s Lullaby.” Good text editing skills is a superpower in our age (for many but obviously not all occupations).

yepthatsreality 5y ago
The tapping is from anxiety. You’re defaulting to a common action. Some people chew their finger nails, some use a fidget spinner. If you want to stop, identify when you’re doing the habit and catch and control yourself, relax, and identify the anxiety.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  I read once some intelligent people still have some process cycles left when working out code and it's uneasing to them so their brains automatically adds another soothing activities to fill the void. For one of my coworker it was either whistling, feet tapping or pen clicking. To the point that another coworker regularly stand up from his chair, walked to him and put a spongy stress ball in his hands. Without saying a word, was funny the first time :D.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

I'm happy someone has vocalized this same nagging feeling I have had for all these years. I just wish it had been addressed instead in the form of haiku. Maybe someone can try. The other thing that has bothered me all these years: Head down and typing, Whoops, no text field selected. Where did the text go?

cecilpl2 5y ago
I have cut some text, Now a new feeling haunts me. I must paste it, MUST.
- myself248 5y ago
  I'm sure the clipboard holds the text I want. Into the app I confidently paste. It's bold italic and a funky font! Why does this always blow up in my face?
TuringTest 5y ago
Jef Raskin in The Humane Interface complained about that very problem. He designed a whole user interaction paradigm to solve it, so that the system would always be in a state where your typed text would be registered, right there. It goes well with the aphorism and commandment that "user input is sacred", which all current user interfaces disregard big time.
sundarurfriend 5y ago
Control-X some text Burden of summer's first ant Paste it, light once more.

yboris 5y ago

I developed a bad habit of not wanting anything in my clipboard after I've used it, so I usually copy the letter `e` (or something similarly unimportant). It's almost like an OCD at this point (in the browser, CTRL + L, 'e', backspace, CTRL + A, CTRL + C, esc). One of my new-year's resolutions is literally to stop doing this silliness.

syspec 5y ago

On MacOS I find Paste works really well. It tracks your last N items, shows previews of images, has search, clean UI, does not store items from 1Password (ignored app list is editable) Ticks all the boxes https://pasteapp.io https://pasteapp.io

jFriedensreich 5y ago

I have exactly this feeling and still paste somewhere or copy garbage to get rid of it though for macOS i use yippy as clipboard manager and it improved the feeling of being in control a lot. similar ticks exist for undo history and saving as well as browser navigation. I wonder if this is something normal people experience or if it is connected to my strong adhd.

FigmentEngine 5y ago

sounds like "cognitive load" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load

carapace 5y ago

It's rare to find people reifying these subtle subjective aspects of UI design so clearly. Transience is a deep problem in UI design. Everything from accidentally kicking out the cord and losing your (unsaved) work, to accidentally copying a selection and clobbering the previous contents of the clipboard (that you still also want to paste again too.) Modal dialogs, modes in general, un-undoable changes of all kinds. It's kind of like our UIs are video games in the sense that they are harder to use than they should be. Video games have to have some sort of challenge or they get boring, eh?

whoomp12342 5y ago

doesnt windows have a clipboard manager built in?