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How do I get new features added to the roadmap? I’ve been asking for an “eat vegetables” interface without the “offer dessert in exchange” workaround for over a
by plaidfuji 5y ago
How do I get new features added to the roadmap? I’ve been asking for an “eat vegetables” interface without the “offer dessert in exchange” workaround for over a year, no response, yet in the same time frame I’ve seen things like “climb top-heavy bookshelf” and “unfurl entire toilet paper roll” deployed… who is asking for these features??
- titusblair 5y agoLOL!!
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago> unfurl entire toilet paper roll That reminds me of one ours pulling the film out of three 35mm film canisters.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y agoI can't remember the last time I needed a postage stamp, but I have a strong memory of my then 3 year-old proudly showing the book he had decorated with the roll of "stickers" he found!
- jiggunjer 5y agoAnd mine pulling dental floss out of the container.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cpursley 5y agoCan somebody explain the "won't eat vegetables" thing? The only place I've heard about this being in issue is in America.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoSugar/bread is easier. We solve this by having a tiered eating system that starts with some salad or veggies, if they don’t eat, they clearly aren’t deathly hungry; dessert is available at the end of the meal if they finish. Note this may require a family eating culture that includes salad et al. With every dinner, which is not the norm in America.
- cpursley 5y agoI wonder if it's also the preparation method. Steamed veggies are of course not appealing vs ones flash fried in a little oil/butter plus salt.
- amock 5y agoMy experience with little kids is that steamed vegetables are the most appealing, they just need to be offered before sweets. Things fried in grease or with salt added seem to be something that becomes much more appealing later.
- vlunkr 5y agoI think preparation is a big part. If you offer a kid pizza and some cold broccoli together then yeah, they'll skip the broccoli.
- mattlondon 5y agoGenerally speaking, added salt is something you need to avoid with young kids. Likewise for saturated fats. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/weaning-and-feeding/foods-to-avoid-giving-babies-and-young-children/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/weaning-and-feeding/foods...
- mdavis6890 5y agoRegarding salt, From the link, “babies” is different than kids. I doubt salt is going to hurt anyone older except in specific cases like heart disease or something. I don’t buy the saturated fats thing either, except to the extent that they are a source of calories. If you have links to some studies that indicate negative outcomes vs the same caloric intake from other sources I am willing to read them.
- mattlondon 5y agoMy kid (~2 years) prefers to eat food they like the taste of most. Turns out that they prefer the sweet tastes of biscuits and even bananas etc to broccoli and carrots. They'll whinge and whine about being hungry, so you offer them some peas or avocado or something and they will literally push it out of the way, look you straight in the eye, and tell you about how hungry they are (...but not hungry enough to eat the veggies in front of them!). Offer them crisps or biscuits or even just fruity-yoghurt and they'll scoff it down super-fast because presumably it tastes nicer. Can't blame them really.
- selimthegrim 5y agoSo do they not class carrots as sweet at all? Is this related to kids hating olives at all?
- NobodyNada 5y agoI hated carrots growing up. I definitely would not describe them as "sweet": they taste dry and sour, take a long time to chew, and the juice makes my throat hurt. Maybe my family just bought bad carrots, but they all seemed to like them. I don't know.
- hackerfromthefu 5y agoMost modern carrots are quite sweet, however the ratio of fibre to sugar prevents the rapid glycemic spike that triggers the sugar addiction.
- drcongo 5y agoI've never met a kid who hates olives!
- nicoburns 5y agoMy parents avoided this issue by just not offering me crisps biscuits etc almost ever (perhaps one on the weekend if I were lucky - certainly not every day). Within healthy food groups they would make an effort to provide foods I liked though.
- 5y ago
- cameldrv 5y agoI've heard some speculation that this can be related to breast vs. formula feeding. If the mom eats a lot of vegetables, some of the tastes will come out in the milk and get the baby accustomed to those tastes.
- mithr 5y agoThis is highly unlikely, similarly to claims that eating cruciferous vegetables will lead to gassy breast-fed babies. Breast milk isn't the distilled contents of the parent's stomach. In contrast, alcohol (for example) is a problem because it affects the parent's bloodstream, not because it fills their stomach.
- plasticchris 5y agoIt’s not entirely far fetched. Grandpa used to say that if the cows got into garlic it ruined the milk, some flavors carry over.
- BenjiWiebe 5y agoI live on a dairy. Yes, when our cows grazed on our cover crop which included radishes, it affected the flavor of the milk. And the color, too. We actually had some customers tell us later that they wouldn't have kept buying our milk due to the unpleasant flavor, except that they knew it was temporary.
- bgoated 5y agoI'll second this; my parents had milk goats while I was young, and their diet definitely affected the milk flavor. Garlic, onions, even some weeds would do it.
- InitialLastName 5y agoA) The tastes/smells of many fluids humans produce are noticeably affected by the foods they eat B) Many with experience with milk-generating livestock will cite that the feed has a meaningful effect on the flavor of the milk. Why would human breast milk be the exception to both of those premises?
- coldtea 5y agoIf everything is saturated with salt/sugar/artificial ehnahced flavors/refined everything/fried/etc with "instant hook"-overcranked-at-11 taste, and it's all targeting the lowest common denominator palette, good luck then trying to teach a person to appreciate tomoatoes, brocolli, asparagus, mushrooms, cheeses, and so on...
- stavros 5y agoThis is a very good summary of my culinary experience visiting the US. This is not to say that good restaurants don't exist, it's just that cheap/everyday restaurants had everything cranked up to 11. The Cheesecake Factory menu was basically butter and sugar in different ratios.
- coldtea 5y agoWith that kind of cuisine how would they ever appreciate the finer taste of splinanetero and arnisia ameletita?
- stavros 5y agoOh man, don't give me an appetite.
- jeegsy 5y agoI had to look those up. Wasnt disappointed. You can definitely keep the ameletita though
- coldtea 5y agoThe latter is a delicacy though too!
- Noumenon72 5y agoSplinantero so rare Google didn't even guess it from how you spelled it. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=AOaemvJ4hHeqy-5CfhCoFmDJ5eLYJzKHxQ:1641344532974&q=splinantero&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCzt3utJn1AhW9kIkEHSD1Bc8QBSgAegQIARAx&biw=1695&bih=829&dpr=1.13 https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=AOa... Arnisia ameletita doesn't even have any non-Greek results at all. https://www.womenonly.gr/kreas/arthro/ameletita_aganaktismena_ala_pandespani-128947344/ https://www.womenonly.gr/kreas/arthro/ameletita_aganaktismen...
- reaperducer 5y agoCan somebody explain the "won't eat vegetables" thing? The only place I've heard about this being a problem is in America. And yet I've seen it on TV shows in both the U.K., and Australia.
- enaaem 5y agoI find that many western households don’t know how to cook vegetables. Often mushy and overcooked. I as an adult don’t enjoy eating that either.
- acdha 5y agoHistorically, there was a big food safety / “scientific nutrition” movement which was heavily influenced by the various food-safety issues around the turn of the previous century and also things like Great Depression / WWII-era concerns about malnourishment (my grandfather remembered all of the concerns that American teenagers hadn't been fed enough to be able to go toe to toe with the Germans). This lead to a lot of truly regrettable food — when my grandmother did home economics classes the focus was always on things like having enough calories for manual laborers on a budget, cooking thoroughly to avoid the chance of disease, etc. which really emphasized meat and carbs, and techniques like pressure cooking (which allowed you to eat cheaper cuts of meat). Enjoying your food was not a priority. Her children were quite happy when she got into California cuisine back when that was new.
- Symbiote 5y agoAre you including the cultures with a reputation for the best food in your "western" generalization? France, Spain, Italy, Greece and so on.
- enaaem 5y agoOh yeah, they have great food. The more northern parts not so.
- martopix 5y agoYou can't really talk about "western" when it comes to food.
- na85 5y agoHonestly I think it's just cultural. Parents inadvertently pass it on, or the kids get it from their peers. My daughter ate olives, Brussels sprouts, lettuce, cabbage, whatever really, from age 2 to 3. Now she's older and there's a bit of "asserting my independence" thing but she still loves Brussels sprouts.
- jessaustin 5y agoYes, pickiness is definitely passed on. The only children I know who insist on ridiculous "meals" of mac-n-cheese and chicken nuggets have at least one parent who also has no taste.
- habeebtc 5y agoI am not a naturally picky eater. It has really helped in my world travels. The one thing I cannot deal with is Beets. Which is the only food my father hated.
- acdha 5y agoIt's a combination of several factors: American kids foods tend to be heavily processed and run to sweet, which will set the baseline if you let it, and there's this widespread belief that children won't eat grownup food so you should offer something else. We only offer what we're eating and, unsurprisingly, he has learned that as normal. That doesn't mean he eats everything — bitter flavors really are a learned taste — but he'll eat enough of it to get proper nutrition and understands that rejecting dinner means getting a second pass later rather than something else. We're also not monsters so there's always some high-probability staple in the meal so it might be that e.g. he eats the fish and sweet potatoes/kale chips but not the squash, which is acceptable. There are also some amusing outcomes: I haven't had asparagus tips in a year or two because he eats those happily but not the base.
- quartesixte 5y ago> children won't eat grownup food so you should offer something else. Having grown up in an immigrant household where the children’s plate is just a smaller version of the adult plate, is this a thing in American households? The kids eat an entirely separate meal-course from the adults? I know baby food is processed but once a kid gets teeth, they’re just given what the adults eat. My grandmother would have banish from the table if I had ever even dared to ask to eat something separate.
- acdha 5y agoVery much yes: like you'll have a meal with normal food and someone will make a batch of Kraft mac-and-cheese without even offering them what everyone else is eating. I can understand the appeal of not fighting about it but that problem only gets worse the longer it runs.
- BenjiWiebe 5y agoSpeaking for myself (American/Midwest), I've never seen nor experienced children getting a separate menu than the adults. Well, except for eating out, I guess. And even then an adult sharing with a child is not that rare.
- skrtskrt 5y agoI think if Korean kids can love kimchi, Italian kids can love eggplant, and Mexican kids can love nopales you must be able to condition kids to like anything.
- teh_klev 5y agoThis is also known as the "Salad Dodger" bug. Many users in Scotland have been less than successful at getting a patch for this issue. Something to do with territorial licensing and the Pies and Bridies patent.
- moron4hire 5y agoMost people are shitty cooks.
- dvaun 5y agoWe put everything on a plate and offer it to the child(ren). Then, if they become hungry later on, they can return to said plate and continue eating. Dessert is considered "equal", so we place it on their plate. However, that also means that they can't raid the pantry for snacks afterward. It seems to be working. Our oldest ate celery and peanut butter the other day, which is pretty unexpected to us.
- gumby 5y agoIn the US most peanut butters include added sugar so your kid may have hacked your system.
- munificent 5y agoShout-out to Adams peanut butter which is delicious and has zero sugar.
- hathawsh 5y agoSome Adams trivia: - It's owned by Smucker's. I normally dislike anything from Smucker's, but Adams is a nice exception. - If you get the giant jar from Costco, the oil separation is a significant issue. There's a simple solution: dump it all into a big mixing bowl (with the help of a silicone spatula), mix it, and pour it back into the jar. I did it last time I bought it and it was worth the 10 minutes I spent. - Once it's mixed well, if you give it a quick stir every time you use it, the oil doesn't separate again.
- drunner 5y agoThe other hack for jars of any size is to store them upside down until you open them for the first time. Then when you open the jar, you get to stir the PB and the oil naturally comes up from the bottom instead of delicately trying to force the oil down without spilling it over the sides.
- aidenn0 5y agoJust because this has been bugging me for years: Why are all zero-sugar-added PBs not homogenized? It seems unlikely to me that sugar is the primary homogenizing agent in e.g. Skippy. I dread opening a new jar of peanut butter to the point where I will look for other things...
- dylan604 5y ago>who is asking for these features?? The project managers have had a look at some of the competing products, and felt that matching features would be more competitive vs fixing existing bugs.
- sophacles 5y agoYeah, but look at puppy for example - it just eats what you give it. (If anything, the makers of that product should introduce a bit of pickiness tbh). The small child makers should really take an example from puppy - AI is a nice way to get some behaviors trained up, but over-doing it (e.g. in the "what to eat" module) can be just as bad as not enough (compare brine shrimp for the problems of a no AI approach).
- dylan604 5y agoSorry, you're blaming someone else for the decision on chosing Small Child vs Cute Loveable Puppy? Buyer's remorse is strong. You should have researched the return options before purchase. However, adding Cute Loveable Puppy can sometimes improve Small Child, or just add to headache.
- hluska 5y agoBe careful. Testing has shown that if you run the Small Child and Cute Loveable Puppy containers on the same host, drink(alcohol) may start running at about 9:30 pm.
- sophacles 5y agoOh sorry, I didn't mean to mislead! I don't own either model, I just am disucssing my experiences as a user. See my sister has both a puppy and a small child... Her and my brother-in-law have set up a combined SCaaS and PaaS called 'extended family'. As an early adopter (they call it "uncle" but whatever, silly naming has been a thing since "tweet"), I get more access than I can use to both small child and puppy. It's actually a great service if you're on the fence about getting your own, you can just send an SMS to 'extended family' and reserve some time. Most of the benefits of ownership, and when one of the defects littering this thread pops up, 'extended family' takes care of all the maintenance. My best friend runs a similar service called "chosen family" and my early adopter title is "godfather" (i like that one, very mobster), but otherwise the service is basically the same. If you're at all unsure about investing in small child or puppy, take a look around for a similar service to help with the decision!
- coldtea 5y ago>I’ve been asking for an “eat vegetables” interface without the “offer dessert in exchange” workaround Perhaps "not eating vegetables" shouldn't have been presented as an option, but instead "we eat what is on offer today, there is no special menu". More often than not, it's spoiling the kid with sweets, pizza, or perhaps just cooking their favorite dishes on demand every time (as opposed to as a love gesture once in a while), that prevents them from enjoying and appreciating a wider range of food. Once somebody has been hooked on the quick-fix of a burger, for example, it's difficult to learn to appreciate the deeper textures, tastes, etc. of vegetables and other more refined recipes.
- xwdv 5y agoFood should never be a reward to a child. Offer something else.
- allannienhuis 5y agoAlong the same lines, pushing kids to eat everything on their plate can result in serious food/eating disorders, training them to ignore their 'full' feeling.
- account-5 5y agoSomeone deployed the "public punch in the balls and run off laughing" feature on mine. I can even get rid of it, I was told I needed to keep it longer than 4 years. The "throw trantum when not allowed to eat broken glass" feature is really annoying.
- Karupan 5y agoGenuinely curious as a vegetarian: aren't vegetables considered a part of daily meals in your household? I've been asked this question by a couple of friends and in my experience, it depends on how the veggies are cooked (there are a million ways to make them tasty), and if the kids actually see adults eat veggies regularly.
- Jenk 5y agoTypically "vegetables" are synonymous with "the boring vegetables" when it comes to convincing kids to eat them. They'll jam in the mash potato like it's going out of fashion, but the kale/cabbage gets funny looks and derision. I try to get creative with my vegetables so that not only my kids eat them more, but so do I. and by creative I mean "add lots of different flavours, herbs, and spices to mask their otherwise dullness to make them exciting"
- hluska 5y agoI'm almost entirely plant based and despite this, my child will not go near a vegetable. It's reached a point where I use extra vegetables when I make stocks because she will eat soup, but only if it has meat and no visible vegetables. Putting extra vegetables in the stock likely accomplishes nothing but it makes me feel a little bit better. I've gone so far as to watch exotic cooking shows on YouTube with her to see if any vegetable dishes or different ways to prepare them are interesting. I deserve a fucking Michelin star with all I've learned about cooking vegetables for her. Despite this, vegetables are bad and "Mmmm actually, kids don't have to eat vegetables."
- schwartzworld 5y agoA lot of times if your unit won't accept vegetables, there may be less space in it than you think. Data moves into the trash slowly, and if there isn't enough storage, it will reject the veggies. Give it an hour and try again.
- bentcorner 5y agoClassic Innovator's Dilemma. The existing older model has mastery of several different features but adding unrelated features to the model is time consuming and expensive. Adding these features to the newer smaller models is much easier. Often times the older units are completely unaware of the capabilities of the newer ones.
- jasonhansel 5y agoThe refusal to eat vegetables is, in fact, a known regression introduced during a recent bugfix intended to prevent the intake of toxic plant matter. Not all models received the bugfix that causes this problem; unfortunately, for those affected, workarounds will continue to be necessary for the foreseeable future.
- collin128 5y agoWorkaround - I tried installing the gem "bribery" but it only works intermittently and often fails silently.
- mpmpmpmp 5y agoI realize the satire, but honestly the best thing we ever did was have a vegetable garden. She started eating random vegetables from the garden when she went outside to play and it's been a breeze to get her to love vegetables in meals since. Really feel lucky about that one!
- cseleborg 5y agoThat's dependency injection for you, it's just impossible to know what you're actually dealing with. The other day, I hit a system error at > ((IEatVeggies)child).justDoIt() > Cast error: Not a IEatVeggies So in the REPL (very confusing and error-prone UI there too, by the way) > print typeof(child) > IAmHangry Unbelievable! There isn't even a direct conversion from IAmHangry to IEatVeggies. This type system is just completely insane.
- clarkbw 5y agoProduct Manager here. This is about customer obsession, relentlessly following the needs of our audience. I know the engineers are always complaining that without vegetables we'll create significant tech debt but there's no time for that right now. Maybe next quarter. The customer wants desert and the customer should get it. While I admit this current strategy does not directly lead to a health business, we're aiming for scale right now and scale up is what we're gonna do. Did I mention that "stick things in the outlets" is coming next quarter?
- albrewer 5y agoAh, the main "eat vegetables" interface is actually emergent behavior driven by three different interfaces: the "parental mimicry" interface, the "repeated exposure" interface, and the fuel sampling system's feedback to the main processor. If the first two systems are repeatedly engaged with one particular desired food item, the third system will eventually acclimate to the new fuel source and learn to accept it. A word of caution, though - not all fuel samplers are the same, and some models will always reject particular inputs.
- whoomp12342 5y agoThere is a good workaround for the "eat vegetables" feature that so many desire. Introduce the french style "3 course meals". Always start with the vegetable course, if the child is hungry, they will eat the vegetibles. Keep other courses out of sight, otherwise it leads to distraction. Then the next course is something filling. This tends to improve performance metrics and overall ability to function. Finally the third course is something they really enjoy eating(desert)