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> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment Well, the world is awar

> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis has served the UK well for the last few hundred years. Even Tasers are classed as a weapon requiring specific training prior to issue. So, for example in London there are about 40,000 officers, only about 7,000 of them are issued with tasers, even fewer of them get to walk around with pistols, and even fewer of them get to drive around in cars with semi-automatics in the boot. Use of a weapon is taken seriously, if an officer discharges in public, it results in instant referral to the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) for independent investigation. This is not with a view of punishing the officer (unless they did wrong, obviously), but with the view of reviewing processes and procedures and whether use of the weapon could have been avoided (or indeed done better). I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week.

sennight 5y ago
> Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. The larger point that you seem to have missed being that the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or historical justification (barring cases involving immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the non-dominant hand flat on top of the grenade spoon before pulling the pin? I dunno, but I'm sure a bunch of people died not doing it. > I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week. I'm sure you would, at this moment. But we'll see if that holds given the direction of the trendlines. It is always funny to me when people compare culturally homogenous countries to the US. There is a reason why Japan has such a low crime rate - and it isn't due to gun control. In any case, it is silly to pretend that the UK isn't dancing to the tune of the US in this case - so pointing to anything the UK may do better is doubly silly.
- huhtamor 5y ago
  The UK is pretty culturally diverse. But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? In any case, it seems you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    Not to support or rebuff the parent comment, but cultural homogeneity has everything to do with policing standards. On the positive side, when people feel more connected to each other, more predictable, the odds for miscommunication or misinterpretation are greatly reduced. Further, people within such environments typically have stronger support systems. On the negative side, there tends to be more pressure, from more sources, to do as those around you are doing. This is a double edged sword, as it can propagate both good and bad behaviors. This all would play a role in defining police procedures, as it would contribute to a set of expectations, of the police and the people they are dealing with.
  - sennight 5y ago
    > The UK is pretty culturally diverse. Relative to the US? lol, no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_et... > But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? Notice anything about the ordering of that list? It almost looks as if cultural homogeneity shares some connection to high trust societies... > ...you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia... Take your own advice, the statistics are so lopsided that even the self deluded find it impossible to spin them - and instead fallback to a weak "thats racist!" defense.
- mulmen 5y ago
  By invoking the US military you have lost the plot. There is no justification for a US military type response to a journalist. Neither the London police nor the CIA are military.
  - 5y ago
nyolfen 5y ago
that's great, the US has more guns than humans
kingcharles 5y ago
And that's in London which has the highest security in the nation. Outside of London you will almost never see a cop with a gun, and rarely a Taser. I remember once when I was much younger I was illegally posting signs for an event around the city. There was a complaint and some cops pulled up. They came up and asked "Do you have any dangerous weapons on you, boys?" and I said "Like this?" and whipped a pair of big scissors out of my pocket right to the cop's face. I didn't mean to pull them out so quickly and menacingly, it just happened. The cop jumped back, surprised, and said "Watch it mate! You could have had my eye out!" and then laughed. We all laughed and he told us to stop being naughty. And that was that. In the USA I would have been superdead.

sennight 5y ago

> Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. The larger point that you seem to have missed being that the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or historical justification (barring cases involving immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the non-dominant hand flat on top of the grenade spoon before pulling the pin? I dunno, but I'm sure a bunch of people died not doing it. > I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week. I'm sure you would, at this moment. But we'll see if that holds given the direction of the trendlines. It is always funny to me when people compare culturally homogenous countries to the US. There is a reason why Japan has such a low crime rate - and it isn't due to gun control. In any case, it is silly to pretend that the UK isn't dancing to the tune of the US in this case - so pointing to anything the UK may do better is doubly silly.

huhtamor 5y ago
The UK is pretty culturally diverse. But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? In any case, it seems you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  Not to support or rebuff the parent comment, but cultural homogeneity has everything to do with policing standards. On the positive side, when people feel more connected to each other, more predictable, the odds for miscommunication or misinterpretation are greatly reduced. Further, people within such environments typically have stronger support systems. On the negative side, there tends to be more pressure, from more sources, to do as those around you are doing. This is a double edged sword, as it can propagate both good and bad behaviors. This all would play a role in defining police procedures, as it would contribute to a set of expectations, of the police and the people they are dealing with.
- sennight 5y ago
  > The UK is pretty culturally diverse. Relative to the US? lol, no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_et... > But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? Notice anything about the ordering of that list? It almost looks as if cultural homogeneity shares some connection to high trust societies... > ...you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia... Take your own advice, the statistics are so lopsided that even the self deluded find it impossible to spin them - and instead fallback to a weak "thats racist!" defense.
mulmen 5y ago
By invoking the US military you have lost the plot. There is no justification for a US military type response to a journalist. Neither the London police nor the CIA are military.
- 5y ago

nyolfen 5y ago

that's great, the US has more guns than humans

kingcharles 5y ago

And that's in London which has the highest security in the nation. Outside of London you will almost never see a cop with a gun, and rarely a Taser. I remember once when I was much younger I was illegally posting signs for an event around the city. There was a complaint and some cops pulled up. They came up and asked "Do you have any dangerous weapons on you, boys?" and I said "Like this?" and whipped a pair of big scissors out of my pocket right to the cop's face. I didn't mean to pull them out so quickly and menacingly, it just happened. The cop jumped back, surprised, and said "Watch it mate! You could have had my eye out!" and then laughed. We all laughed and he told us to stop being naughty. And that was that. In the USA I would have been superdead.