5 ms·

> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after thing

> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The answer to that question is very simple: you are operation under the premise that you can accurately predict your target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably foolish to think otherwise. This is why, in the US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment - mind reading isn't even attempted. So with that in mind, do you still think you know enough about Assange's state of mind (and the minds of an unknown number of unknown confederates) to accurately predict what he would do? Because he might have no intention of making a predictably foolish b-line for an exit point, he might be happy to momentarily break surveillance and lay low in a warehouse while his lawnchair weather balloon is readied. That said, Assange has been horribly mistreated and his tormentors will never have to answer to it.

PradeetPatel 5y ago
>...his tormentors will never have to answer to it. Why the defeatist attitude? It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. When the truth is out, justice will follow. The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
- Cpoll 5y ago
  > The world does not operate on a "might is right" model. I'd hate to be the cynic in the room, but the actions of various powerful countries has show the opposite. In general, it seems like if the truth does surface, it's met with general ambivalence and nothing much happens to anyone involved. I'll cop out on concrete examples and just say that I find them too numerous and depressing.
- sennight 5y ago
  Addressing this feels like how I imagine it would feel to drop a cinderblock on a box of kittens... > It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. Not really, but even in the case where it might be partially true - it would definitely be a non-linear function of time. By that I mean the immediate dispersion of true information would be zero, the mid-point would be the max, and then there would be a long tail of disinformation. The winners write the history, and the historians present the stories based on some criteria - and you can be sure that it isn't objective. Have you ever noticed the way that philosophical teachings, the ones going back thousands of years, all promote some kind of social stratification that favors a ruling class? Plato's Republic being an easy example. Ever wonder why? Hint: it isn't because it reflects some emergent quality of the human condition. > The world does not operate on a "might is right" model. Unfortunately it absolutely does, or at least has - forever. I'm pretty confident this is the reason why the common theme for religion is the concept of balancing force that is dependent on faith alone. A universal karma, an afterlife. If justice were the rule of the day then these things wouldn't be needed. The only thing I see potentially changing any of this is solidly rooted in the cryptoanarchy sphere - because misrepresented math simply doesn't function, halting the propagation of corrupting influence in a way no other system can.
- pydry 5y ago
  >The world does not operate on a "might is right" model. If it didnt then Prince Andrew would probably be behind bars and Assange would be free.
traceroute66 5y ago
> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis has served the UK well for the last few hundred years. Even Tasers are classed as a weapon requiring specific training prior to issue. So, for example in London there are about 40,000 officers, only about 7,000 of them are issued with tasers, even fewer of them get to walk around with pistols, and even fewer of them get to drive around in cars with semi-automatics in the boot. Use of a weapon is taken seriously, if an officer discharges in public, it results in instant referral to the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) for independent investigation. This is not with a view of punishing the officer (unless they did wrong, obviously), but with the view of reviewing processes and procedures and whether use of the weapon could have been avoided (or indeed done better). I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week.
- sennight 5y ago
  > Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. The larger point that you seem to have missed being that the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or historical justification (barring cases involving immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the non-dominant hand flat on top of the grenade spoon before pulling the pin? I dunno, but I'm sure a bunch of people died not doing it. > I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week. I'm sure you would, at this moment. But we'll see if that holds given the direction of the trendlines. It is always funny to me when people compare culturally homogenous countries to the US. There is a reason why Japan has such a low crime rate - and it isn't due to gun control. In any case, it is silly to pretend that the UK isn't dancing to the tune of the US in this case - so pointing to anything the UK may do better is doubly silly.
  - huhtamor 5y ago
    The UK is pretty culturally diverse. But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? In any case, it seems you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia

PradeetPatel 5y ago

>...his tormentors will never have to answer to it. Why the defeatist attitude? It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. When the truth is out, justice will follow. The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.

Cpoll 5y ago
> The world does not operate on a "might is right" model. I'd hate to be the cynic in the room, but the actions of various powerful countries has show the opposite. In general, it seems like if the truth does surface, it's met with general ambivalence and nothing much happens to anyone involved. I'll cop out on concrete examples and just say that I find them too numerous and depressing.
sennight 5y ago
Addressing this feels like how I imagine it would feel to drop a cinderblock on a box of kittens... > It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. Not really, but even in the case where it might be partially true - it would definitely be a non-linear function of time. By that I mean the immediate dispersion of true information would be zero, the mid-point would be the max, and then there would be a long tail of disinformation. The winners write the history, and the historians present the stories based on some criteria - and you can be sure that it isn't objective. Have you ever noticed the way that philosophical teachings, the ones going back thousands of years, all promote some kind of social stratification that favors a ruling class? Plato's Republic being an easy example. Ever wonder why? Hint: it isn't because it reflects some emergent quality of the human condition. > The world does not operate on a "might is right" model. Unfortunately it absolutely does, or at least has - forever. I'm pretty confident this is the reason why the common theme for religion is the concept of balancing force that is dependent on faith alone. A universal karma, an afterlife. If justice were the rule of the day then these things wouldn't be needed. The only thing I see potentially changing any of this is solidly rooted in the cryptoanarchy sphere - because misrepresented math simply doesn't function, halting the propagation of corrupting influence in a way no other system can.
pydry 5y ago
>The world does not operate on a "might is right" model. If it didnt then Prince Andrew would probably be behind bars and Assange would be free.

traceroute66 5y ago

> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis has served the UK well for the last few hundred years. Even Tasers are classed as a weapon requiring specific training prior to issue. So, for example in London there are about 40,000 officers, only about 7,000 of them are issued with tasers, even fewer of them get to walk around with pistols, and even fewer of them get to drive around in cars with semi-automatics in the boot. Use of a weapon is taken seriously, if an officer discharges in public, it results in instant referral to the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) for independent investigation. This is not with a view of punishing the officer (unless they did wrong, obviously), but with the view of reviewing processes and procedures and whether use of the weapon could have been avoided (or indeed done better). I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week.

sennight 5y ago
> Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. The larger point that you seem to have missed being that the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or historical justification (barring cases involving immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the non-dominant hand flat on top of the grenade spoon before pulling the pin? I dunno, but I'm sure a bunch of people died not doing it. > I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week. I'm sure you would, at this moment. But we'll see if that holds given the direction of the trendlines. It is always funny to me when people compare culturally homogenous countries to the US. There is a reason why Japan has such a low crime rate - and it isn't due to gun control. In any case, it is silly to pretend that the UK isn't dancing to the tune of the US in this case - so pointing to anything the UK may do better is doubly silly.
- huhtamor 5y ago
  The UK is pretty culturally diverse. But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? In any case, it seems you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia