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TikTok trend that makes teens believe they have serious mental disorders

147 points by type0 5y ago

paperwasp42 5y ago
Relevant paper on a Tourettes-like sociogenic illness: https://academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/brain/awab316/6356504 https://academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/b... And, for what it's worth, a personal anecdote: A friend of mine recently had her teenage daughter "come out" as autistic. Her daughter is... SO NOT autistic. She's a social butterfly who's extraordinarily empathetic, never struggled for a moment to make friends, never struggled with focusing, coordination, language comprehension, eye contact, reading facial expressions, or any of the myriad symptoms of autism. But her daughter is quirky and artistic and sometimes gets a little anxious in large social gatherings. Due to TikTok, she became CONVINCED this means she is autistic. She was also furious at her mother for refusing to accept this diagnosis. At first her mom kind of shrugged off the self-diagnosis as a goofy teenage episode. ...But then her daughter's school psychologist started recommending occupational therapy and medication for her "autism." My friend demanded to know what symptoms the psychologist was seeing, and was met with the following: "She doesn't have any obvious autism symptoms, but girls can be very, very good at masking their autism. And she's saying she thinks anxiety medication and autism therapy sessions would be helpful, and people don't ask for those sorts of things if they don't need it." Friend immediately took her daughter to see another psychologist (this one who specializes in autism.) This specialist said she didn't see even a hint of autism, and felt the anxiety was mild, normal for a teenager, and would be harmful to medicate. Now here's the weirdest part: according to this specialist, she keeps seeing this exact same scenario play out. Mildly awkward teenager gets addicted to TikTok, becomes convinced they're autistic, and gets furious at their parents for "denying them treatment." Baffled parents ends up taking them to this specialist, who confirms their gut instinct that their kid is 100% neurotypical. The scariest part of this, according to the specialist, isn't teens going down stupid rabbit holes on social media. It's the new generation of psychologists (like the young school psychologist) that emphasize "positive reinforcement" of identity. Teen says they're autistic? Then they're autistic! Simple as that. Now hand them some drugs, because they "wouldn't be asking for it if they didn't need it." The good news: my friend's daughter saw a therapist for a few months, talked through her anxiety, is doing way better, and now admits she doesn't think she has autism after all. The bad news: It's the job of mental health professionals to provide proper guidance when it comes to diagnosis, medication, and therapy. And at the moment, many of our practitioners seem to be failing at this, choosing instead to reinforce teenage fantasies.
- seattle_spring 5y ago
  Stories like this are why I'm absolutely terrified to have kids. Just beyond mortified, seriously.
- supernovae 5y ago
  My daughter is going through this right now. I'm thankful I have good insurance because the hospital and therapy visits last year alone where over $100k...
  - paperwasp42 5y ago
    Just want to say, I'm so sorry you're going through this, and best of luck to you and your daughter. You're a great parent for actually taking the time and effort (and money) to help her to the best of your ability.
jmercouris 5y ago
I believe this trend has existed on different platforms for a long time. I remember in the 90s when it was trendy to have OCD or to be depressed. Part of being young seems to be finding a way to differentiate yourself and be special as is emphasized by our culture.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  The difference between now and then, or even just now and the Livejournal days, is that "the algorithm" is actively pushing this content at people, instead of it merely being something they can come across.
  - comboy 5y ago
    Yeah, good old times of 3 TV channels and 2 newspapers which you could come across. The algorithm of giving you what you prefer when there are too many choices is inevitable. Alternative is a bunch of people deciding what it should and should not give you. It really doesn't matter who those people work for.[1] Positive feedback loop and information bubbles are not great but "the algorithm" is really not worse in this regard than leaving in a small village. 1. The algorithm is still a bunch of people but that's orthogonal to your point. People will prefer algorithms fitting their needs better and they are able to switch (yes monopolies, but that's a different thread already).
    - iratewizard 5y ago
      Older media is far less socially degenerative to consume. Even modern media standards are higher than much of what I have personally seen children consume on YouTube kids. The 3 TV channels and two newspapers never ran programming that features Spiderman and Elsa having diarrhea after sexually suggestive themes.
      - comboy 5y ago
        Really? Spiderman and Elsa having diarrhea is that much worse than presenting family model with woman being a washing machine and kids getting beaten by their dad? Nutella is a healthy breakfast and all cool kids smoke cigarettes. Shut up and do your job. As far as I remember standards were not higher. They were different. Plus really, the cartoons I remember were full of stuff like find a sleeping pills in parents cabinet, give somebody as a joke, put a pin on a chair so somebody sits on it etc. Racism everywhere. Stuff that is even hard to find nowadays because they had to scrub it. Sexually suggestive themes, like have you watched lion king? Or anything really... it seemed to be way more explicit. We luckily tend to remember past as better than it was. There's also nostalgia element and there's cultural difference. Just like there are different cultures around the globe and most think that other ones are gross, the same happens in the time dimension. edit: to be clear, things could be better, we should point out what's wrong and try to fix it, but with some more decent optimization function than "proximity to good the old days"
greatpostman 5y ago
Nothing wrong with making a mockery of an already flawed medical system. These “mental illnesses” fit wide ranging bands, and damage people by treating them with medication when waiting a year would see a cessation of the issue without the long term impact of drugs
- 6510 5y ago
  Then they update some kind of lexicon with new disorders people previously didn't know they could have (because they didn't exist) and invent groups of barely related things. Something like: you might not have asperger syndrome but you certainly have hacker news. You might also be suffering from tik tok, google and facebook. I had a great suggestion for the mental disorder list: You are suffering from something like SCROOGE or GREED when your wealth is greater than X but are unable to do anything with your life other than attempt to expand your wealth. This is an extremely serious issue with billions suffering for generations to come. Any kind of non lethal forced medication would work really. Something to slow them down, something to make them suffer greatly, prayer, etc
schleck8 5y ago
They have single-handedly managed to ridicule serious mental conditions like autism and adhd by turning them into quirky character traits, which has swept over to other platforms as well. ADHD is now the lack of motivation. OCD has been hit just as badly. It is being used synonymously with liking order and cleanliness (which almost every human does). And the most bizarre out of the bunch is the pseudo-personality disorder community on tiktok. They come up with names like 'shade' and 'lucius' for their supposed 'alters', all of which have assigned functions like 'the gatekeeper' and 'the emotional supporter', and can of course be activated on demand in front of a camera. And get this, none of them are diagnosed (only 'self-dxed') because supposedly the medical system is biased and treats them unfairly.
- deleted 5y ago
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- slibhb 5y ago
  I think you are correct to link this stuff to changes in how people think about autism, OCD, etc. I would also link it to the return of astrology and the proliferation of terms like asexual/demisexual/etc. Ultimately all of these trends have to do with how people conceptualize identity. It's not clear how harmful any of this is but boy is it weird.
  - camtarn 5y ago
    I mean, sort of, yes, but that's an extremely broad bucket you've built. Lots of things are to do with identity: nationality, political party, etc. 'HN reader' is a fairly strong identity! The difference comes in the utility of that identity. If somebody is latching onto something which drives them to believe that getting one particular type of medication is the one and only way to fix their life, despite not really fitting the diagnostic criteria for the associated condition, I'd say that's a problem. Getting a new label (like asexual) which lets you make sense of your life and probably doesn't change your existing behaviour at all, let alone make you want treatment, I'd say is beneficial.
- pgcj_poster 5y ago
SeanLuke 5y ago
> According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, borderline personality disorder is extremely rare -- only 1.4% of the U.S. adult population is estimated to have this condition and it is rarely diagnosed in adolescents. Wait, since when is 1.4% of the adult population "extremely rare"?
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Maybe in comparison to other mental ailments? Depression is 7 and PTSD is 4 I think. Schizophrenia Is 1.1. All according to quick Google searches, not deep vetting of the numbers.
- schleck8 5y ago
  Since when is it not? One and a half in a hundred people is very few, that's for sure.
  - civilized 5y ago
    What about five million people? Is that a lot?
    - schleck8 5y ago
      Depends on your total, in relation to 8 billion humans it's extremely rare.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - genewitch 5y ago
        I'm having a really hard time biting my tongue, here.
      - riffic 5y ago
        what's 1.4 percent of 8 billion?
gjs278 5y ago
notRobot 5y ago
A few points, mostly hypothesizing: 1. My understanding is that these videos often talk about very general symptoms, that could be caused by these mental disorders -- but also by a lot of other things. 2. The videos take on an authoritative tone, which does a good job of convincing people (especially kids). I've written about this phenomenon (albeit playing out in written form) on HN before: > Welcome to the internet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > It's not hard to find highly opinionated people making assumptions while confidently believing they're right. If you look closely, you'll notice this all the time on HN and Reddit and basically anywhere that allows people to comment. > The scary thing is that many readers will also often take anything said confidently enough to be fact. This is also basically how a lot of disinformation works. Say it authoritatively, and you'll become an authority on the matter to many people. 3. The 'nocebo' effect is very real! It's the opposite of a placebo effect, where if you believe you have an illness, your body actually starts showing symptoms. 4. I'd believe that in a lot of cases it's less about a kid consciously thinking "Ooh it's trendy to have this, let me say I do", and more like kids thinking "Oh this seems to be a widespread thing, and I experience these symptoms sometime (I space out! And I have trouble sleeping! And I have a jittery leg! and so on), sure seems like I might have this!" 5. Very important quote from article: > "If you spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes viewing people talk about these disorders over and over again, that can make it seem like these conditions are a lot more prevalent than they actually are in the world," Repetition makes it seem like a bigger deal, and makes it stick around in the kids' head. So the next time they space out in the classroom naturally the thought might occur ("Do I have dissociative disorder?"). 6. If lots of kids start showing up to doctors' saying they have (for eg) BPD when they don't, it'll be a lot harder for those with actual symptoms to convince doctors of their situation and receive proper medical care, which is very worrying. ______ All this said: 1. I'm just a user of the internet - not a psychologist, nor someone with relevant formal training, so please take my hypotheses as just that -- hypotheses, not fact. 2. I haven't actually watched many of these videos, so if someone has links, please share them! I think a lot of people on HN might like to watch them and analyse what's going on.
VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
Reminds me of the apocryphal reporter who pretended to have psych problems to get firsthand access to a facility. Then, when he told everyone he was faking, still couldn’t escape because apparently faking a mental illness is itself a sign of mental illness.
- sseagull 5y ago
  Maybe related to the Rosenhan experiment? Also one of my favorite psychology stories. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
- DaveExeter 5y ago
  You might be thinking of Nellie Bly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_in_a_Mad-House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_in_a_Mad-House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Bly#Asylum_expos%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Bly#Asylum_expos%C3%A9
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    Fun fact: they've since turned that madhouse into apartments. https://octagonnyc.com/ https://octagonnyc.com/
ineedasername 5y ago
It is also very problematic in then seeking treatment: The conviction that you have X mental illness will influence how you report symptoms and color your experiences to fit that narrative. Incorrect diagnosis is already a problem in mental health-- attempts at self diagnosis typically only compound the problem. It's one of those areas where you really want patients to go and report unbiased experiences (in so far as that is possible even without preconceived self diagnosis)
willio58 5y ago
This has nothing to do with tiktok. This same phenomenon can and does occur on all social networks, and people mistakenly self-diagnose all the time outside of social network use too
- priansh 5y ago
  I find this a bit disingenuous. TikTok videos have by far the highest reach of all social media due to their format and the way the for you page works. Moreover it rewards influencers from interacting with each other’s posts which often leads to top comments on TikTok (and Reels too although it’s much smaller as a platform) largely being an echo chamber. 1 post on Facebook might reach 100s, 1000s of people. Rarely a page with large enough following may hit 100,000s of people. 1 post on TikTok from a moderate influencer can hit millions. That’s not to say other social media forms haven’t had bad trends in the past, but TikTok has had far more and in a far shorter amount of time. People just don’t interact with other social content the way they buy into TikTok, which is dangerous and leads to far more misinformation — it was maybe not even 3 weeks ago I had a bunch of my friends sending me a bunch of popular TikTok videos and asking about how AI Transformers were here and taking over the world (they are, but transformers in AI have nothing in common with the movies).
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  It also generalizes beyond social networks. Another way of viewing this is simply medical student syndrome[1] transplanted onto the substrate of social media. Learning about a new thing biases people in a way that they over identify that thing. As a parent, I've experienced this in the last year. It was pretty easy to identify and correct for. Teens try out novel behaviors regularly. It's a good strategy for figuring out identity and maturing, but it does have these weird edge-cases that being on the lookout for and gently applying reality maintenance mechanisms corrects for. 1. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-excess/201609/brief-look-medical-student-syndrome https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-excess/201609/bri...
- notacoward 5y ago
  It might not be unique to TikTok, it might happen on other social networks, but TikTok shouldn't continue to get a pass even as they become the worst purveyor of dangerous viral nonsense. There was the "steal stuff from school" thing and the wave of schools closing because of TikTok-inspired threats and the "corpse bride" eating-disorder thing and probably more I've missed. Now this. People don't hesitate to dump all over Facebook and Twitter. Nobody stands up and says "this has nothing to do with Facebook, it happens on all social media" around here unless they want to get their head ripped off. Bringing out that defense only for TikTok seems like something only a dedicated fan/addict (or worse) would do.
deleted 5y ago
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SubiculumCode 5y ago
The latest "OMG Teens are doing stupid stuff with the latest internetty thingy" story. Yay. Just like the last time where no, teens weren't killing themselves as part of a challenge, kids aren't freaking out. If anything, this trend will help make mental illness less stigmatizing.
- foepys 5y ago
  > will help make mental illness less stigmatizing Or will result in doctors not taking people seriously because only a small percentage of their patients claiming to have a mental illness actually have one. I can see it going both ways.
- mdoms 5y ago
  I would encourage you to take a look at this subreddit. It's a bit mean spirited and not a nice place, but watch some of the videos and tell me you don't think we should be concerned about these people. https://www.reddit.com/r/fakedisordercringe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fakedisordercringe/
  - TigeriusKirk 5y ago
    Thanks for that link. Of course it's going to be cherrypicked extremes, but it's interesting to see what's going on out there.
- supernovae 5y ago
  My teen was convinced she had DID and tried committing suicide twice. It's not benign.
coolso 5y ago
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
This isn't just for teens - It extends to the college students I see come through a mentoring program I volunteer with. In some cases it's positive: I've seen a few people be convinced to seek treatment for anxiety and depression disorders after seeing people they trust on social media open up about their own therapy experiences. But the worst offender (in older students, anyway) has to be ADHD right now. The sheer amount of bad ADHD self-diagnosis material on TikTok and other platforms is unbelievable. Influencers inherently want to reach the broadest audience possible, so they have an inherent conflict of interest to convince as many people as possible that they have ADHD. "Follow me for more ADHD tips!" The result is a lot of TikToks and other short-form content that misrepresents ADHD as everyday struggles such as not being able to remember everyone's names at parties or forgetting to get all of the groceries you need at the store. Watch enough of these videos and anyone can become convinced they have ADHD. At one point, it felt like everyone in one cohort was convinced they had undiagnosed ADHD and wanted to discuss it in the Slack as the explanation for everything in their lives. It got bad enough that people were coaching each other about how to convince skeptical doctors to prescribe ADHD meds by exaggerating specific symptoms, at which point we had to shut down such conversation. Watching the ADHD self-diagnosis misinformation spread like wildfire was honestly one of my more terrifying social media experiences in recent history. But it gets even worse: During COVID, the US government suspended a rule that required patients to have established a past in-person relationship with a prescriber before receiving controlled substance prescriptions. Several startups are capitalizing on this rule change with subscription services to send you Adderall prescriptions after a short 5-minute Zoom with a doctor. And of course, these ads are being served up to the people consuming the ADHD self-diagnosis TikToks. It's only a few clicks to talk to a pill mill that will prescribe you Adderall (for a monthly fee, of course). At this point, I'm beginning to fear that so many young people are self-diagnosing ADHD from internet misinformation that we're heading for a reckoning with ADHD medication prescribing. It's starting to feel a bit reminiscent of the prescription opioid pandemic, where opioids were being prescribed to basically everyone who requested them. It wouldn't be good for actual ADHD patients if countries started severely cracking down on prescription practices.
- trophycase 5y ago
  Interesting, my sister in college is convinced she has ADHD now so I wonder if this is related.
kneel 5y ago
I found this trend on tiktok randomly and I have to say it's deeply deeply concerning, the darkest side of social media I've ever seen. While social trends and fads have existed/influenced before but I think people might be underestimating how addictive and pervasive tiktok is, especially to young impressionable minds. There is already an epidemic of anxiety among younger millennials and gen z, I shudder to think what kind of end effects these depersonalization/loss of identity memes can have over the long term.
deleted 5y ago
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nopenopenopeno 5y ago
I hate to break it to everyone, but the American Psychological Association does the exact same thing. Our ruling elite figured out a long time ago that, instead of taking responsibility for societal problems, it’s not only cheaper but in fact more profitable to convince struggling individuals that their problems are all in their own head. Unsurprisingly, playing loose with reality like that tends to get out of control.
- TOMDM 5y ago
  Are you suggesting the American psychological association and some combination of billionaires and or politicians are conspiring to push mental health problems as an alternative for worsening quality of life in order to distract from problems that would impact profits if addressed?
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    It’s systemic. Nobody is scheming in a backroom. They are selecting solutions to problems as they come. Liberalism and capitalism is all it’s ever taken to royally ruin a society.
zahma 5y ago
I volunteer on Crisis Text Line and have spoken to a number of people who are self-diagnosed — some older, some young. I don’t know where people have gotten their info when they explain that their emotions are complicated by DID or because they think have BPD. I can imagine a number of people spend a lot of time on social media since CTL has outreach initiatives through the different platforms or we’ve gone viral on different TikTok platforms. We celebrate the publicity, but what do we know of the effect on someone wondering if they too share in a mental health condition? Where do we draw the line between exposure to mental health issues and over-diagnosing? I can say that a lot of people who come to our service have legitimate concerns while others might just be teens with typical angst, except now they are told theirs is diagnosable as X. DID = dissociative identity disorder BPD = borderline personality disorder (Cool it with the acronym policing. Both acronyms are referenced in the link. Reading comments isn’t the same as reading the source.)
- nightowl_games 5y ago
  What's DID? ALTAOYT: acronyms lower the accessibility of your text.
  - vector_spaces 5y ago
    Dissociative identity disorder (I agree with your point)
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    Dissociative Identity Disorder is my guess.
  - zahma 5y ago
    Yes, dissociative identity disorder. I only used it because it was referenced in the article. My apologies.
- deleted 5y ago
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  - 5y ago
riffic 5y ago
If something occurs in 1.4% of the U.S. adult population I wouldn't call that "extremely rare".
ridiculousthrow 5y ago
spoonjim 5y ago
- brokensegue 5y ago
  what does being straight have to do with being trans? do you think tiktok is convincing people they are gay?
  - spoonjim 5y ago
  - supernovae 5y ago
    there is a big element of this in the same circles of people who are convincing people they have BPD, DID, ADHD, Ticks and Seizures. I only know because my kid is struggling with severe mental issues and is currently in the hospital. I got on their tiktok and discord and saw the "communities" they were in and many of the ones espousing disorders are convincing kids who aren't sexually active that their inactiveness is a specific sexuality and defacto trans or non binary as a means of relating to other kids who have the same experiences when none seem to be actively trans/gay/non binary in their offline lives.
userbinator 5y ago
If you're using TikTok, possibly to the point of addiction, maybe you're already more likely to have a serious mental disorder. (Sorry, it just had to be said.)
jollybean 5y ago
I believe this is across many age groups, it overlaps to conditions such as ADHD, OCD, gluten intolerance and also to sexual and gender identities. People don't want to talk about the later parts i.e. gender/sexual identity because they're ostensibly 'inherent' but I believe this is a huge mistake. If 'Goth' were put in a book as some kind of known identity that people assume, then kids would think they 'have' or 'are' ... 'Goth'. That doesn't delegitimize the nature of real afflictions and identities etc. so much as it highlights how much power our minds have over reality. I think this even overlaps into identities or 'self beliefs' such as being 'healthy and tough' or 'broken and in need'. Some people I know never, ever get sick. I suggest they do, but they just 'tough it out' and don't talk about it. Other people I believe make sure everyone knows they are sick and like the sympathy they endear. The placebo effect demonstrates just a hint of the power of our minds, so I wonder how much this has to do with healthy wellbeing. I suggest the 'toughing it out' is probably a good mental state, until it becomes a problem with getting actual needed medical attention. We really need to understand this a bit better.
yata69420 5y ago
I'm on mental illness TikTok and I've watched this trend develop. Happy to answer any questions as someone that spends hours a day scrolling. My main takeaways are this: * People with mental illness are finding each other, sharing their experiences, and it's enormously validating for them. The algorithm is bringing them together and it creates a lot of engagement because there's a highly charged emotional human connection thing happening. * The short form recording/publishing experience on a phone is so accessible to people that we're getting totally new viewpoints. I follow a schizophrenic that draws the faces he sees. It's fascinating. I'm sure this content will be researched for years. It's a self-reporting gold mine. * People are struggling, finding community, then seeking the help of mental health professionals. That's a good news story. * There's a lot of actual mental health professionals on TikTok spreading good information. It's fairly obvious who's legitimate.
- remarkEon 5y ago
  I'm asking this question in genuine good faith: Do you think that social media apps (not necessarily just Tiktok, but the lot of them) are contributing to an acceleration of this trend?
  - yata69420 5y ago
    The technology is helping similar people find each other in the same way that related YouTube videos help you find similar content. In a way, it's because the person and the content are merging. So yeah, it's accelerating, but it's probably a good trend. GMA spins it weirdly because they're a boomer outlet, but fundamentally it's a generation waking up to mental health issues because an algorithm is putting that content in front of the people that are likely to have those issues. Personally, I never gave much serious consideration to the idea that I have autism. But after watching a lot of recommended content, it's pretty likely that I do and the algorithm was right in identifying similarities. I'm not going to get a formal diagnosis because it doesn't serve any purpose for me, but I have no doubt I could. The algorithm also thinks I'm a communist lesbian, which is very far off the mark, but I can sort of see why it would have binned me that way based on the content that I find interesting. For people that haven't directly interacted with TT, I'd encourage just because it's so impressive. It will find interests you didn't even know you had. In some cases, that might be how you figure out you have ADHD or that you're gay or whatever your special group is that you didn't know you were a part of yet.
anonnyj 5y ago
There's also GD but it's so trendy that you're ostracized for even daring to say it's a mental illness now. Crazy world, but as others have said designer illnesses are hardly a new thing.
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
cphoover 5y ago
tiktok is a mental disorder IMO
LeicaLatte 5y ago
Very common phenomenon on the internet. Wait till you hear about this other disorder where you people in their 30s believe they are changing the world by working for some corporate company which pushes 5 second videos to teens.
aaron695 5y ago
Inufu 5y ago
If you are interested in this topic, I recommend "Crazy Like Us" by Ethan Watters - it describes how mental illnesses get exported by media coverage and cultural attitudes from Western countries, and how cultural expectations shape the manifestation of mental illness. It was also reviewed in depth by Scott Alexander: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like-us https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like... Self diagnosis waves on tiktok seem like the next evolution of this, but even faster and more globalised. I've been wondering if this phenomenon could be harnessed to reduce the impact of mental illness: purposely spread content that encourages self-diagnosis with the mildest possible symptoms.
helge9210 5y ago
"I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was housemaid’s knee" ©

147 points by type0 5y ago

Relevant paper on a Tourettes-like sociogenic illness: https://academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/brain/awab316/6356504 https://academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/b... And, for what it's worth, a personal anecdote: A friend of mine recently had her teenage daughter "come out" as autistic. Her daughter is... SO NOT autistic. She's a social butterfly who's extraordinarily empathetic, never struggled for a moment to make friends, never struggled with focusing, coordination, language comprehension, eye contact, reading facial expressions, or any of the myriad symptoms of autism. But her daughter is quirky and artistic and sometimes gets a little anxious in large social gatherings. Due to TikTok, she became CONVINCED this means she is autistic. She was also furious at her mother for refusing to accept this diagnosis. At first her mom kind of shrugged off the self-diagnosis as a goofy teenage episode. ...But then her daughter's school psychologist started recommending occupational therapy and medication for her "autism." My friend demanded to know what symptoms the psychologist was seeing, and was met with the following: "She doesn't have any obvious autism symptoms, but girls can be very, very good at masking their autism. And she's saying she thinks anxiety medication and autism therapy sessions would be helpful, and people don't ask for those sorts of things if they don't need it." Friend immediately took her daughter to see another psychologist (this one who specializes in autism.) This specialist said she didn't see even a hint of autism, and felt the anxiety was mild, normal for a teenager, and would be harmful to medicate. Now here's the weirdest part: according to this specialist, she keeps seeing this exact same scenario play out. Mildly awkward teenager gets addicted to TikTok, becomes convinced they're autistic, and gets furious at their parents for "denying them treatment." Baffled parents ends up taking them to this specialist, who confirms their gut instinct that their kid is 100% neurotypical. The scariest part of this, according to the specialist, isn't teens going down stupid rabbit holes on social media. It's the new generation of psychologists (like the young school psychologist) that emphasize "positive reinforcement" of identity. Teen says they're autistic? Then they're autistic! Simple as that. Now hand them some drugs, because they "wouldn't be asking for it if they didn't need it." The good news: my friend's daughter saw a therapist for a few months, talked through her anxiety, is doing way better, and now admits she doesn't think she has autism after all. The bad news: It's the job of mental health professionals to provide proper guidance when it comes to diagnosis, medication, and therapy. And at the moment, many of our practitioners seem to be failing at this, choosing instead to reinforce teenage fantasies.

seattle_spring 5y ago
Stories like this are why I'm absolutely terrified to have kids. Just beyond mortified, seriously.
supernovae 5y ago
My daughter is going through this right now. I'm thankful I have good insurance because the hospital and therapy visits last year alone where over $100k...
- paperwasp42 5y ago
  Just want to say, I'm so sorry you're going through this, and best of luck to you and your daughter. You're a great parent for actually taking the time and effort (and money) to help her to the best of your ability.

jmercouris 5y ago

I believe this trend has existed on different platforms for a long time. I remember in the 90s when it was trendy to have OCD or to be depressed. Part of being young seems to be finding a way to differentiate yourself and be special as is emphasized by our culture.

crooked-v 5y ago
The difference between now and then, or even just now and the Livejournal days, is that "the algorithm" is actively pushing this content at people, instead of it merely being something they can come across.
- comboy 5y ago
  Yeah, good old times of 3 TV channels and 2 newspapers which you could come across. The algorithm of giving you what you prefer when there are too many choices is inevitable. Alternative is a bunch of people deciding what it should and should not give you. It really doesn't matter who those people work for.[1] Positive feedback loop and information bubbles are not great but "the algorithm" is really not worse in this regard than leaving in a small village. 1. The algorithm is still a bunch of people but that's orthogonal to your point. People will prefer algorithms fitting their needs better and they are able to switch (yes monopolies, but that's a different thread already).
  - iratewizard 5y ago
    Older media is far less socially degenerative to consume. Even modern media standards are higher than much of what I have personally seen children consume on YouTube kids. The 3 TV channels and two newspapers never ran programming that features Spiderman and Elsa having diarrhea after sexually suggestive themes.
    - comboy 5y ago
      Really? Spiderman and Elsa having diarrhea is that much worse than presenting family model with woman being a washing machine and kids getting beaten by their dad? Nutella is a healthy breakfast and all cool kids smoke cigarettes. Shut up and do your job. As far as I remember standards were not higher. They were different. Plus really, the cartoons I remember were full of stuff like find a sleeping pills in parents cabinet, give somebody as a joke, put a pin on a chair so somebody sits on it etc. Racism everywhere. Stuff that is even hard to find nowadays because they had to scrub it. Sexually suggestive themes, like have you watched lion king? Or anything really... it seemed to be way more explicit. We luckily tend to remember past as better than it was. There's also nostalgia element and there's cultural difference. Just like there are different cultures around the globe and most think that other ones are gross, the same happens in the time dimension. edit: to be clear, things could be better, we should point out what's wrong and try to fix it, but with some more decent optimization function than "proximity to good the old days"

greatpostman 5y ago

Nothing wrong with making a mockery of an already flawed medical system. These “mental illnesses” fit wide ranging bands, and damage people by treating them with medication when waiting a year would see a cessation of the issue without the long term impact of drugs

6510 5y ago
Then they update some kind of lexicon with new disorders people previously didn't know they could have (because they didn't exist) and invent groups of barely related things. Something like: you might not have asperger syndrome but you certainly have hacker news. You might also be suffering from tik tok, google and facebook. I had a great suggestion for the mental disorder list: You are suffering from something like SCROOGE or GREED when your wealth is greater than X but are unable to do anything with your life other than attempt to expand your wealth. This is an extremely serious issue with billions suffering for generations to come. Any kind of non lethal forced medication would work really. Something to slow them down, something to make them suffer greatly, prayer, etc

schleck8 5y ago

They have single-handedly managed to ridicule serious mental conditions like autism and adhd by turning them into quirky character traits, which has swept over to other platforms as well. ADHD is now the lack of motivation. OCD has been hit just as badly. It is being used synonymously with liking order and cleanliness (which almost every human does). And the most bizarre out of the bunch is the pseudo-personality disorder community on tiktok. They come up with names like 'shade' and 'lucius' for their supposed 'alters', all of which have assigned functions like 'the gatekeeper' and 'the emotional supporter', and can of course be activated on demand in front of a camera. And get this, none of them are diagnosed (only 'self-dxed') because supposedly the medical system is biased and treats them unfairly.

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slibhb 5y ago
I think you are correct to link this stuff to changes in how people think about autism, OCD, etc. I would also link it to the return of astrology and the proliferation of terms like asexual/demisexual/etc. Ultimately all of these trends have to do with how people conceptualize identity. It's not clear how harmful any of this is but boy is it weird.
- camtarn 5y ago
  I mean, sort of, yes, but that's an extremely broad bucket you've built. Lots of things are to do with identity: nationality, political party, etc. 'HN reader' is a fairly strong identity! The difference comes in the utility of that identity. If somebody is latching onto something which drives them to believe that getting one particular type of medication is the one and only way to fix their life, despite not really fitting the diagnostic criteria for the associated condition, I'd say that's a problem. Getting a new label (like asexual) which lets you make sense of your life and probably doesn't change your existing behaviour at all, let alone make you want treatment, I'd say is beneficial.
pgcj_poster 5y ago

SeanLuke 5y ago

> According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, borderline personality disorder is extremely rare -- only 1.4% of the U.S. adult population is estimated to have this condition and it is rarely diagnosed in adolescents. Wait, since when is 1.4% of the adult population "extremely rare"?

MattGaiser 5y ago
Maybe in comparison to other mental ailments? Depression is 7 and PTSD is 4 I think. Schizophrenia Is 1.1. All according to quick Google searches, not deep vetting of the numbers.
schleck8 5y ago
Since when is it not? One and a half in a hundred people is very few, that's for sure.
- civilized 5y ago
  What about five million people? Is that a lot?
  - schleck8 5y ago
    Depends on your total, in relation to 8 billion humans it's extremely rare.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - genewitch 5y ago
      I'm having a really hard time biting my tongue, here.
    - riffic 5y ago
      what's 1.4 percent of 8 billion?

gjs278 5y ago

notRobot 5y ago

A few points, mostly hypothesizing: 1. My understanding is that these videos often talk about very general symptoms, that could be caused by these mental disorders -- but also by a lot of other things. 2. The videos take on an authoritative tone, which does a good job of convincing people (especially kids). I've written about this phenomenon (albeit playing out in written form) on HN before: > Welcome to the internet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > It's not hard to find highly opinionated people making assumptions while confidently believing they're right. If you look closely, you'll notice this all the time on HN and Reddit and basically anywhere that allows people to comment. > The scary thing is that many readers will also often take anything said confidently enough to be fact. This is also basically how a lot of disinformation works. Say it authoritatively, and you'll become an authority on the matter to many people. 3. The 'nocebo' effect is very real! It's the opposite of a placebo effect, where if you believe you have an illness, your body actually starts showing symptoms. 4. I'd believe that in a lot of cases it's less about a kid consciously thinking "Ooh it's trendy to have this, let me say I do", and more like kids thinking "Oh this seems to be a widespread thing, and I experience these symptoms sometime (I space out! And I have trouble sleeping! And I have a jittery leg! and so on), sure seems like I might have this!" 5. Very important quote from article: > "If you spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes viewing people talk about these disorders over and over again, that can make it seem like these conditions are a lot more prevalent than they actually are in the world," Repetition makes it seem like a bigger deal, and makes it stick around in the kids' head. So the next time they space out in the classroom naturally the thought might occur ("Do I have dissociative disorder?"). 6. If lots of kids start showing up to doctors' saying they have (for eg) BPD when they don't, it'll be a lot harder for those with actual symptoms to convince doctors of their situation and receive proper medical care, which is very worrying. ______ All this said: 1. I'm just a user of the internet - not a psychologist, nor someone with relevant formal training, so please take my hypotheses as just that -- hypotheses, not fact. 2. I haven't actually watched many of these videos, so if someone has links, please share them! I think a lot of people on HN might like to watch them and analyse what's going on.

VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago

Reminds me of the apocryphal reporter who pretended to have psych problems to get firsthand access to a facility. Then, when he told everyone he was faking, still couldn’t escape because apparently faking a mental illness is itself a sign of mental illness.

sseagull 5y ago
Maybe related to the Rosenhan experiment? Also one of my favorite psychology stories. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
DaveExeter 5y ago
You might be thinking of Nellie Bly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_in_a_Mad-House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_in_a_Mad-House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Bly#Asylum_expos%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Bly#Asylum_expos%C3%A9
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  Fun fact: they've since turned that madhouse into apartments. https://octagonnyc.com/ https://octagonnyc.com/

ineedasername 5y ago

It is also very problematic in then seeking treatment: The conviction that you have X mental illness will influence how you report symptoms and color your experiences to fit that narrative. Incorrect diagnosis is already a problem in mental health-- attempts at self diagnosis typically only compound the problem. It's one of those areas where you really want patients to go and report unbiased experiences (in so far as that is possible even without preconceived self diagnosis)

willio58 5y ago

This has nothing to do with tiktok. This same phenomenon can and does occur on all social networks, and people mistakenly self-diagnose all the time outside of social network use too

priansh 5y ago
I find this a bit disingenuous. TikTok videos have by far the highest reach of all social media due to their format and the way the for you page works. Moreover it rewards influencers from interacting with each other’s posts which often leads to top comments on TikTok (and Reels too although it’s much smaller as a platform) largely being an echo chamber. 1 post on Facebook might reach 100s, 1000s of people. Rarely a page with large enough following may hit 100,000s of people. 1 post on TikTok from a moderate influencer can hit millions. That’s not to say other social media forms haven’t had bad trends in the past, but TikTok has had far more and in a far shorter amount of time. People just don’t interact with other social content the way they buy into TikTok, which is dangerous and leads to far more misinformation — it was maybe not even 3 weeks ago I had a bunch of my friends sending me a bunch of popular TikTok videos and asking about how AI Transformers were here and taking over the world (they are, but transformers in AI have nothing in common with the movies).
kelseyfrog 5y ago
It also generalizes beyond social networks. Another way of viewing this is simply medical student syndrome[1] transplanted onto the substrate of social media. Learning about a new thing biases people in a way that they over identify that thing. As a parent, I've experienced this in the last year. It was pretty easy to identify and correct for. Teens try out novel behaviors regularly. It's a good strategy for figuring out identity and maturing, but it does have these weird edge-cases that being on the lookout for and gently applying reality maintenance mechanisms corrects for. 1. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-excess/201609/brief-look-medical-student-syndrome https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-excess/201609/bri...
notacoward 5y ago
It might not be unique to TikTok, it might happen on other social networks, but TikTok shouldn't continue to get a pass even as they become the worst purveyor of dangerous viral nonsense. There was the "steal stuff from school" thing and the wave of schools closing because of TikTok-inspired threats and the "corpse bride" eating-disorder thing and probably more I've missed. Now this. People don't hesitate to dump all over Facebook and Twitter. Nobody stands up and says "this has nothing to do with Facebook, it happens on all social media" around here unless they want to get their head ripped off. Bringing out that defense only for TikTok seems like something only a dedicated fan/addict (or worse) would do.

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SubiculumCode 5y ago

The latest "OMG Teens are doing stupid stuff with the latest internetty thingy" story. Yay. Just like the last time where no, teens weren't killing themselves as part of a challenge, kids aren't freaking out. If anything, this trend will help make mental illness less stigmatizing.

foepys 5y ago
> will help make mental illness less stigmatizing Or will result in doctors not taking people seriously because only a small percentage of their patients claiming to have a mental illness actually have one. I can see it going both ways.
mdoms 5y ago
I would encourage you to take a look at this subreddit. It's a bit mean spirited and not a nice place, but watch some of the videos and tell me you don't think we should be concerned about these people. https://www.reddit.com/r/fakedisordercringe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fakedisordercringe/
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  Thanks for that link. Of course it's going to be cherrypicked extremes, but it's interesting to see what's going on out there.
supernovae 5y ago
My teen was convinced she had DID and tried committing suicide twice. It's not benign.

coolso 5y ago

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

This isn't just for teens - It extends to the college students I see come through a mentoring program I volunteer with. In some cases it's positive: I've seen a few people be convinced to seek treatment for anxiety and depression disorders after seeing people they trust on social media open up about their own therapy experiences. But the worst offender (in older students, anyway) has to be ADHD right now. The sheer amount of bad ADHD self-diagnosis material on TikTok and other platforms is unbelievable. Influencers inherently want to reach the broadest audience possible, so they have an inherent conflict of interest to convince as many people as possible that they have ADHD. "Follow me for more ADHD tips!" The result is a lot of TikToks and other short-form content that misrepresents ADHD as everyday struggles such as not being able to remember everyone's names at parties or forgetting to get all of the groceries you need at the store. Watch enough of these videos and anyone can become convinced they have ADHD. At one point, it felt like everyone in one cohort was convinced they had undiagnosed ADHD and wanted to discuss it in the Slack as the explanation for everything in their lives. It got bad enough that people were coaching each other about how to convince skeptical doctors to prescribe ADHD meds by exaggerating specific symptoms, at which point we had to shut down such conversation. Watching the ADHD self-diagnosis misinformation spread like wildfire was honestly one of my more terrifying social media experiences in recent history. But it gets even worse: During COVID, the US government suspended a rule that required patients to have established a past in-person relationship with a prescriber before receiving controlled substance prescriptions. Several startups are capitalizing on this rule change with subscription services to send you Adderall prescriptions after a short 5-minute Zoom with a doctor. And of course, these ads are being served up to the people consuming the ADHD self-diagnosis TikToks. It's only a few clicks to talk to a pill mill that will prescribe you Adderall (for a monthly fee, of course). At this point, I'm beginning to fear that so many young people are self-diagnosing ADHD from internet misinformation that we're heading for a reckoning with ADHD medication prescribing. It's starting to feel a bit reminiscent of the prescription opioid pandemic, where opioids were being prescribed to basically everyone who requested them. It wouldn't be good for actual ADHD patients if countries started severely cracking down on prescription practices.

trophycase 5y ago
Interesting, my sister in college is convinced she has ADHD now so I wonder if this is related.

kneel 5y ago

I found this trend on tiktok randomly and I have to say it's deeply deeply concerning, the darkest side of social media I've ever seen. While social trends and fads have existed/influenced before but I think people might be underestimating how addictive and pervasive tiktok is, especially to young impressionable minds. There is already an epidemic of anxiety among younger millennials and gen z, I shudder to think what kind of end effects these depersonalization/loss of identity memes can have over the long term.

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nopenopenopeno 5y ago

I hate to break it to everyone, but the American Psychological Association does the exact same thing. Our ruling elite figured out a long time ago that, instead of taking responsibility for societal problems, it’s not only cheaper but in fact more profitable to convince struggling individuals that their problems are all in their own head. Unsurprisingly, playing loose with reality like that tends to get out of control.

TOMDM 5y ago
Are you suggesting the American psychological association and some combination of billionaires and or politicians are conspiring to push mental health problems as an alternative for worsening quality of life in order to distract from problems that would impact profits if addressed?
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  It’s systemic. Nobody is scheming in a backroom. They are selecting solutions to problems as they come. Liberalism and capitalism is all it’s ever taken to royally ruin a society.

zahma 5y ago

I volunteer on Crisis Text Line and have spoken to a number of people who are self-diagnosed — some older, some young. I don’t know where people have gotten their info when they explain that their emotions are complicated by DID or because they think have BPD. I can imagine a number of people spend a lot of time on social media since CTL has outreach initiatives through the different platforms or we’ve gone viral on different TikTok platforms. We celebrate the publicity, but what do we know of the effect on someone wondering if they too share in a mental health condition? Where do we draw the line between exposure to mental health issues and over-diagnosing? I can say that a lot of people who come to our service have legitimate concerns while others might just be teens with typical angst, except now they are told theirs is diagnosable as X. DID = dissociative identity disorder BPD = borderline personality disorder (Cool it with the acronym policing. Both acronyms are referenced in the link. Reading comments isn’t the same as reading the source.)

nightowl_games 5y ago
What's DID? ALTAOYT: acronyms lower the accessibility of your text.
- vector_spaces 5y ago
  Dissociative identity disorder (I agree with your point)
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  Dissociative Identity Disorder is my guess.
- zahma 5y ago
  Yes, dissociative identity disorder. I only used it because it was referenced in the article. My apologies.
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- 5y ago

riffic 5y ago

If something occurs in 1.4% of the U.S. adult population I wouldn't call that "extremely rare".

ridiculousthrow 5y ago

spoonjim 5y ago

brokensegue 5y ago
what does being straight have to do with being trans? do you think tiktok is convincing people they are gay?
- spoonjim 5y ago
- supernovae 5y ago
  there is a big element of this in the same circles of people who are convincing people they have BPD, DID, ADHD, Ticks and Seizures. I only know because my kid is struggling with severe mental issues and is currently in the hospital. I got on their tiktok and discord and saw the "communities" they were in and many of the ones espousing disorders are convincing kids who aren't sexually active that their inactiveness is a specific sexuality and defacto trans or non binary as a means of relating to other kids who have the same experiences when none seem to be actively trans/gay/non binary in their offline lives.

userbinator 5y ago

If you're using TikTok, possibly to the point of addiction, maybe you're already more likely to have a serious mental disorder. (Sorry, it just had to be said.)

jollybean 5y ago

I believe this is across many age groups, it overlaps to conditions such as ADHD, OCD, gluten intolerance and also to sexual and gender identities. People don't want to talk about the later parts i.e. gender/sexual identity because they're ostensibly 'inherent' but I believe this is a huge mistake. If 'Goth' were put in a book as some kind of known identity that people assume, then kids would think they 'have' or 'are' ... 'Goth'. That doesn't delegitimize the nature of real afflictions and identities etc. so much as it highlights how much power our minds have over reality. I think this even overlaps into identities or 'self beliefs' such as being 'healthy and tough' or 'broken and in need'. Some people I know never, ever get sick. I suggest they do, but they just 'tough it out' and don't talk about it. Other people I believe make sure everyone knows they are sick and like the sympathy they endear. The placebo effect demonstrates just a hint of the power of our minds, so I wonder how much this has to do with healthy wellbeing. I suggest the 'toughing it out' is probably a good mental state, until it becomes a problem with getting actual needed medical attention. We really need to understand this a bit better.

yata69420 5y ago

I'm on mental illness TikTok and I've watched this trend develop. Happy to answer any questions as someone that spends hours a day scrolling. My main takeaways are this: * People with mental illness are finding each other, sharing their experiences, and it's enormously validating for them. The algorithm is bringing them together and it creates a lot of engagement because there's a highly charged emotional human connection thing happening. * The short form recording/publishing experience on a phone is so accessible to people that we're getting totally new viewpoints. I follow a schizophrenic that draws the faces he sees. It's fascinating. I'm sure this content will be researched for years. It's a self-reporting gold mine. * People are struggling, finding community, then seeking the help of mental health professionals. That's a good news story. * There's a lot of actual mental health professionals on TikTok spreading good information. It's fairly obvious who's legitimate.

remarkEon 5y ago
I'm asking this question in genuine good faith: Do you think that social media apps (not necessarily just Tiktok, but the lot of them) are contributing to an acceleration of this trend?
- yata69420 5y ago
  The technology is helping similar people find each other in the same way that related YouTube videos help you find similar content. In a way, it's because the person and the content are merging. So yeah, it's accelerating, but it's probably a good trend. GMA spins it weirdly because they're a boomer outlet, but fundamentally it's a generation waking up to mental health issues because an algorithm is putting that content in front of the people that are likely to have those issues. Personally, I never gave much serious consideration to the idea that I have autism. But after watching a lot of recommended content, it's pretty likely that I do and the algorithm was right in identifying similarities. I'm not going to get a formal diagnosis because it doesn't serve any purpose for me, but I have no doubt I could. The algorithm also thinks I'm a communist lesbian, which is very far off the mark, but I can sort of see why it would have binned me that way based on the content that I find interesting. For people that haven't directly interacted with TT, I'd encourage just because it's so impressive. It will find interests you didn't even know you had. In some cases, that might be how you figure out you have ADHD or that you're gay or whatever your special group is that you didn't know you were a part of yet.

anonnyj 5y ago

There's also GD but it's so trendy that you're ostracized for even daring to say it's a mental illness now. Crazy world, but as others have said designer illnesses are hardly a new thing.

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

cphoover 5y ago

tiktok is a mental disorder IMO

LeicaLatte 5y ago

Very common phenomenon on the internet. Wait till you hear about this other disorder where you people in their 30s believe they are changing the world by working for some corporate company which pushes 5 second videos to teens.

aaron695 5y ago

Inufu 5y ago

If you are interested in this topic, I recommend "Crazy Like Us" by Ethan Watters - it describes how mental illnesses get exported by media coverage and cultural attitudes from Western countries, and how cultural expectations shape the manifestation of mental illness. It was also reviewed in depth by Scott Alexander: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like-us https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like... Self diagnosis waves on tiktok seem like the next evolution of this, but even faster and more globalised. I've been wondering if this phenomenon could be harnessed to reduce the impact of mental illness: purposely spread content that encourages self-diagnosis with the mildest possible symptoms.

helge9210 5y ago

"I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was housemaid’s knee" ©