14 ms·

Satoshi leaked his Los Angeles IP address (2016)

183 points by sahil50 5y ago

5350-uiop-1130 5y ago
Isn't there a guy literally called Satoshi Nakamoto, that lived near and friends with Hal Finney, in California. I think SN was probably more than one person, and I do think it was built with government involvement. The doxxed Satoshi himself worked as a government contractor I believe.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
topak3000 5y ago
[dead]
dot1x 5y ago
Satoshi is very obviously David Schwartz (Ripple). Check out his patents from '88.
pseudalopex 5y ago
2016 article. 2009 leak.
- jcun4128 5y ago
  Can't believe that guy's like "I'm Satoshi" goes to court
DantesKite 5y ago
It’s pretty remarkable he’s been able to keep secret for this long.
- edf13 5y ago
  Possibly passed away… it would be hard for anyone to resist the amount of money his early coin holding is now worth.
  - spir 5y ago
    I think somebody smart enough to invent Bitcoin seems likely to have been smart enough to mine coins on a separate account, knowing he would never be able to touch the genesis wallet. I think Satoshi is alive and well and enjoying his riches. Good for them
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - vmception 5y ago
      Exactly. Anybody that mined those earlier blocks on the weird unknown hardware was also able to mine on known hardware under another identity. so A) Satoshi has other earnings, in bitcoin, that was held long enough to make Satoshi extremely rich, and sold under their normal known identity. While never needing to associate with the other identity. B) The private keys to the bitcoin mined in those original blocks were sold for cash over the counter for very large amounts to funds with longer time horizons. Bitcoin can operate in temporarily trusted environments. Bitcoin price has tanked every time very old Bitcoin is transferred onchain, so there is no need to transfer them onchain. We would never know.
      - jcpham2 5y ago
        You seem like a guy that's read the studies/blogs on the Satoshi/genesis nonces
        vmception 5y ago
        yeah, I have, there are so many ways to elevate or downrank any altrustic version of Satoshi, or a dead/hiding Satoshi, or an incompetent Satoshi that lost private keys, since its also possible for there to already be an extremely rich Satoshi that doesn't have any incentive to look back its all fruitless to speculate
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        The problem with those private keys being sold off-net is that the buyer can never be sure the seller deleted every copy. Who would take that risk? And who would buy it and not use any of it? Even if the value tanks it'll still be a ton of money.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 5y ago
EDIT: Please explain in the comments - because I seriously do not understand that - why on earth you are downvoting this!? You're advocating something cruel. WTF? What is the problem about saying "leave a person alone who apparently WANTS to be left alone?". You're advocating stalking. The people who trying to figure out who Satoshi is and make it public should realize this: What they're effectively doing is trying to completely destroy someone's life just for them having written a piece of software. Because then everyone will assume (EDIT: not *know*, see the comments) that the person is insanely rich. And beyond the glorification of being rich everyone forgets what it actually means: You're a prisoner of your money. Want to go to a pub and have a beer? Not possible, you might get kidnapped or at least harassed by paparazzi. Want to go outside for a walk? Same as above. Want friends? Nope, how are you gonna find them if you cannot go outside? How can you trust anyone? Maybe they just want your money? Of course, the rich can mingle among each other. But this very much limits your possible circle of social contacts, and there's no law of nature which says that someone like Sathoshi might even want to be friends with Justin Bieber etc., or vice versa. Hobbies? Only those you can do alone. Want a girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse? See above. Also as a bonus a large portion of the public will HATE you, no matter what you do. Just see how much HN hates crypto. You might get tortured for money, lynched or whatever cruel imagination you can come up with. Enough people know you = anything is possible. Satoshi apparently wants to be left alone so you should do just that. They gave you a software for free which spawned a whole industry, they don't deserve to be harassed for that. If you don't like it then don't use it, but don't destroy the developer's life. Nobody forces you to use it - and even if someone did then go harass them, not the developer.
- krm01 5y ago
  Nice try Satoshi
- xqoiu 5y ago
  Example: Warren Buffett's personal security budget > Keeping the boss safe has cost [Berkshire] an average of US$339,000 a year since 2008, or US$4.4 million in total. https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style/luxury/article/3126736/does-warren-buffett-deserve-pay-rise-berkshire-hathaway-ceos https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style/luxury/article/3126736/...
tsywke44 5y ago
Is there a term for this, where a person discovers something extremely interesting, but doesn’t know the proper channels to make the knowledge public? In this case, releasing the info on a random spammy looking WP blog.
- ljm 5y ago
  It feels like an ARG, like Daniel Mullins is going to release a game in a few years that uses something in this blog as the key for a cypher.
- alphabet9000 5y ago
  the term is 'liberating'
  - johnnyfived 5y ago
    Thank you
- teekert 5y ago
  So… What are the proper channels?
anm89 5y ago
I feel like Hal Finney and Nick Szabo were the two people who seem plausible and the fact that Hal and Satoshi were on different IP addresses that day seems to me like it's not Hal. So for me it feels pretty much settled that Satoshi is Szabo.
- drawkbox 5y ago
  Nick Szabo has been potentially mentioned as Satoshi for sometime [1] due to him working on decentralized currencies since 1998 with Bit Gold [2]. Elon Musk mentioned Nick Szabo on Lex Fridman's podcast as Szabo was also doing Bit Gold prior and is heavy into crypto and currencies. [3] > "Obviously I don't know who created bitcoin ... it seems as though Nick Szabo is probably more than anyone else responsible for the evolution of those ideas," said Musk, adding, "he claims not to be Nakamoto ... but he seems to be the one more responsible for the ideas behind it than anyone else." > Szabo is best known as the inventor of one of bitcoin’s predecessors, Bit Gold, and digital smart contracts—which eventually evolved to become a key part of the ethereum blockchain. Szabo has previously denied he's Satoshi Nakamoto, telling financial author Dominic Frisby in 2014, "I'm afraid you got it wrong doxing me as Satoshi, but I'm used to it." Szabo's full name is Nicholas Szabo [4]. Just seems quite a bit like Satoshi Nakamoto. It feels like there is something there potentially. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Satoshi_Nakamoto_speculation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Satoshi_Nakamoto_sp... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Bit_gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Bit_gold [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/12/28/elon-musk-reveals-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-theory-admits-he-doesnt-get-ethereum-and-issues-dogecoin-mars-prediction-amid-crypto-price-crash/?sh=629b6a185d0e https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/12/28/elon-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Elon Musk mentioned Nick Szabo on Lex Fridman's podcast as Szabo was also doing Bit Gold prior and is heavy into crypto and currencies. [3] >> "Obviously I don't know who created bitcoin ... it seems as though Nick Szabo is probably more than anyone else responsible for the evolution of those ideas," said Musk, adding, "he claims not to be Nakamoto ... but he seems to be the one more responsible for the ideas behind it than anyone else." Why do Elon Musk's speculations have any credibility here? It's not his field, and even in his field he has a track record of making confident public statements that turn out to be wildly wrong.
drawkbox 5y ago
Van Nuys, Los Angeles, CA was where the IP was located. > IP Address: 68.164.57.219 > IP Block: 68.164.57.128 – 68.164.57.255 > Reverse DNS: h-68-164-57-219.lsan.ca.dynamic.megapath.net > Host: Covad Communications. Van Nuys, CA, USA > Location: Van Nuys, CA, USA Could have even been something like Satoshi wasn't on his normal setup at the time and it slipped through. Maybe on vacation or a wireless connection that connected near there. Or the IP lookup was even slightly off and they were in Sherman Oaks or anything really. Sometimes even wireless connections can appear to come from an entirely different state based on the network. The IP could have also been spoofed or temporary. Covad Communications was the 16th biggest ISP at the time and then "Covad was acquired a by private equity firm, Platinum Equity, in April 2008. In 2010, it was sold to U.S. Venture Partners, which merged Covad, and Speakeasy into MegaPath." [1] It appears when this IP connected (Jan 2009) it was owned by the private equity firm Platinum Equity [2]. The IP was definitely logged in Los Angeles, beyond that it could be anything. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covad [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Equity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Equity
- petertodd 5y ago
  > Maybe on vacation or a wireless connection that connected near there. Bitcoin had been released a few days prior to that log file. So unlikely to be on vacation. As I mentioned in another comment, the IRC seeding mechanism isn't necessary to use Bitcoin, and it was publicly released at the time, so no reason to assume this is Satoshi.
  - drawkbox 5y ago
    Potentially just living there, or there for something, or a false positive. > Bitcoin had been released a few days prior to that log file. So unlikely to be on vacation. Vacations are great for after shipping though, after the long slog of a project. Since it was new it would be a good time to escape before all the support requests and more usage increased. Maybe they couldn't stay away from that draw and then got a bit lazy on vacation in terms of opsec. Or maybe not. Good info nonetheless, it is one potential clue or not in the mystery.
paulsutter 5y ago
Anyone have an 2009 vintage geo-IP table? (the current mapping doesnt mean a lot)
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  Maybe look on Internet Archive to find an old MaxMind database?
pdevr 5y ago
For whatever it is worth, Dorian Nakamoto (whom Leah Goodman claimed to be "The Face Behind Bitcoin"[1]) stays nearby - within the realm of possibility :) [1] https://www.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/face-behind-bitcoin-247957.html https://www.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/face-behind-bitcoin-2479...
servytor 5y ago
edit: krapp below me is right, I AM AN IDIOT. I just ran it through an anagram website and trusted it without even checking. --- I always thought Satoshi Nakamoto was an anagram. Antonomasias ~ Satoshi Nakamoto Antonomasias: the substitution of an epithet or title for a proper name (e.g., the Bard for Shakespeare). So it seems like a play on words, because Satoshi Nakamoto is a real name, and therefore a group might have wanted the creator to have a human name.
- krapp 5y ago
  >I always thought Satoshi Nakamoto was an anagram. >Antonomasias ~ Satoshi Nakamoto Doesn't work. No H or K, too many N's.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- wallacoloo 5y ago
  the closest anagram i can make from “antonomasias” is: Satosi nanamo seems like a stretch, unless there’s more that i’m missing.
petertodd 5y ago
"In the Jan of 2009 when Hal and Satoshi were working on Bitcoin Alpha version, Hal encountered an error with the software and he posted the debug log to the mailing list." The "dox" assumes that only three people were using Bitcoin at the time, and thus one of them must be Satoshi. That's a bad assumption, as Bitcoin was publicly available at that time, and was announced on the public cryptography mailing list, and we know for a fact that a few people tried it out early on. The IRC initial seeding mechanism was _not_ mandatory to use, let alone full time. So it wouldn't be surprising at all if Satoshi wasn't using it. "This is not a TOR exit node which implies that this is the IP address used by Satoshi on 2009-01-10 and he was in Van Nuys on this day" It's not a TOR exit node in 2016, when this article is published. That doesn't tell us anything about 2009.
- victor22 5y ago
  Peter himself! Thank you for your work, I had a great time chatting with you in Colombia back in 2017. Cheers!
- davidgerard 5y ago
  yeah, the leak is 2009-01-10, two days after Bitcoin 0.1 dropped
- finite_jest 5y ago
  As per LinuxBender's comment [1], ExoneraTor [2] tells us it hasn't been a TOR relay in 2009 either. I think Szabo is the most likely Satoshi candidate. He seems to have disappeared from public view since March, despite being a prolific Twitter [2]. I hope he is doing well, chilling on a beach in a Caribbean island. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29729498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29729498 [2]: https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57.219&timestamp=2009-01-10&lang=en https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57.... [3]: https://twitter.com/nickszabo4 https://twitter.com/nickszabo4
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deafsquid69 5y ago
The keys can move without the coins moving. Think of it like the ultimate Casascius coins. There's no way to know whether or not Satoshi cashed out. I can't find the thread, but I'm pretty sure Adam Back even said this on bitcointalk and said that that would be how he'd move the money if he were Satoshi.
- mbreese 5y ago
  That’s true, but if someone bought the keys, then they’d be more likely to start moving/spending the coins.
- anonAndOn 5y ago
  How to dodge transaction fees and internet sleuths in one pass: Put a bitcoin in a wallet and sell the wallet.
- Cantinflas 5y ago
  How could that work? If I sell you a private key, then you get the private key, and I get the money... and the private key. You either move them right away or risk me moving them (or me selling the private key again to another guy)
misiti3780 5y ago
Doesnt this mean that somewhere, buried deep in a a database, someone can run a query to see who had the IP address on that day, and assuming it is a private residence there is at least a chance that is SN?
- desireco42 5y ago
  I am perfectly fine not knowing ever who Satoshi is. I think we need to learn to accept these things.
- mersenne 5y ago
  Satoshi Nakamoto went leap and bounds to hide his identity, this probably also included his online footprint.
- sktrdie 5y ago
  Yeah but leaking such data from an ISP would be considered illegal.
  - KiranRao0 5y ago
    Is there some "legal process" (subpoena, etc) that could reveal this?
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      The spooks know, anyway. They don't even need to ask anybody.
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    Why would that be illegal? Data like this is bought and sold daily. (Not condoning this, but privacy laws in the US are pretty weak)
- yucky 5y ago
  The US Intelligence community knows who Satoshi is. After all, they created it to destabilize competitor currencies. Satoshi is likely a Project Name, not a person. Nobody else could laugh at the idea of wanting to cash in $70 billion.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sktrdie 5y ago
I think of Satoshi as a genius for the invention. Unfortunately the invention is causing a global climate crisis. Similar to how Einstein's laws helped create the atomic bomb.
- xunn0026 5y ago
  - jandrese 5y ago
    It's certainly not helping. Bitcoin is astoundingly energy hungry and produces effectively nothing with the energy consumed. Textbook definition of wasteful behavior.
    - xunn0026 5y ago
      Assuming humans are somewhat rational it must produce something! At its worse interpretation it could be a casino. Humanity does a whole lot of wasteful things. Should we ban music, too? Parks perhaps? Switch to plain clothing? In other words, who are you to decide what's wasteful and what should be banned? I would more consider the ad industry to fit this definition. Yet I saw no computation how much energy and human brains it is wasting.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  > Unfortunately the invention is causing a global climate crisis. This is straight up bonkers. Yes: humanity's energy consumption is likely the cause of climate change. But the energy consumed goes into a lot of outputs: shelter, transportation, entertainment, commerce. You could legitimately regard proof-of-work as an inefficiency whose cost keeps increasing. If proof-of-stake is sufficient, then it's remarkably inefficient. But it produces something useful. Let's have some sense of perspective [1] about energy consumption before you put bitcoin or proof-of-work as the culprit for Earth's climate problems. [1] https://www.otherlab.com/blog-posts/us-energy-flow-super-sankey https://www.otherlab.com/blog-posts/us-energy-flow-super-san...
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
> This is not a TOR exit node which implies that this is the IP address used by Satoshi on 2009-01-10 How do we know it was not a tor exit node in January 2009?
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  One might use the ExoneraTor [1] [1] - https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57.219&timestamp=2009-01-10&lang=en https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57....
joseloyaio 5y ago
It's Nick Szabo. He uses his initials for his Pseudonyms (N.S) Nakamoto Satoshi = Bitcoin Nicolas Saberhagen = Monero
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  I am glad Obama gave Nick SS protection.
  - finite_jest 5y ago
    That's one of most amusing conspiracy theories I've heard in a while :-)
- yucky 5y ago
  The most likely explanation I've read is that Szabo was involved on the Bitcoin project, at the behest of US Intelligence (perhaps team lead, working within a defined set of goals - it's speculation for now). Bitcoin is a very effective means of destabilizing currencies and extracting wealth out of non-friendly areas, so for the US Intelligence community it is a boon. Szabo later went on to improve on the concept with Monero, without the involvement of US Intelligence (obviously, since Monero is very unfriendly for the US Govt). Again, speculation. The only person capable of creating both, is likely Szabo. Monero being a big middle finger to "the team" behind Bitcoin, who still control the keys.
  - mersenne 5y ago
    That doesn’t make sense.
    - yucky 5y ago
      Which part?
- BTCOG 5y ago
  It was in fact, Len Sassaman. From anonymous remailers and his penchant for anonymously released work back in the mailing lists, to MojoNetwork with Bram. His British spelling, his time zone abroad when working in academia and posting online. His circle. Before he committed suicide due to his neurological issues and loss of passion for life, Satoshi last said “I’ve moved on to other things and probably won’t be around in the future.” He kept this secret even from his own wife. Alas, I hate to post this here just like this but it's my belief that it's an open secret. Only those close enough to suspect and know his pathology venture the guess. His wish is to have the work carried on nameless and to speak for itself. He hated notoriety for notoriety sake. I feel disrespectful even posting this, but it was not fucking Nick Szabo.
zaxbeast 5y ago
Does the blockchain log the miner's IP addresses? That's why I don't like to mine on my local network
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
  No, it does not. Transactions also do not contain IP addresses. Some chain explorer will track 'first seen IP', eg: the first IP that relayed the transaction, but this does not mean the sender. Same deal with blocks -- you can see the IP sent your peer the block, but not the IP that created it, which may or may not be the same. With Dandelion routing, you can mask the sender IP behind multiple other relaying nodes. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0156 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0156
  - Jerrrry 5y ago
    Transactions can contain IP addresses. You can send BTC to an IP address. This is not a good thing to do - the documentation even says it "will probably be stolen immediately"
    - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
      Many many years ago. The initial designs for Bitcoin had a 'pay to IP' feature, probably to approximate traditional banking IP to IP transfer. It has not existed for almost 8 years now. "This feature has been removed from Bitcoin Core as-of v0.8.0[1]." (Feb 2013).
      - Jerrrry 5y ago
        damn time flies. I haven't bought a bitcoin since it went from $20 to $400. the change in my tumbling accounts are worth more than everything i had bought since then combined. thanks china!
        rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
        I recommend dollar cost averaging over time to 'stack sats'. You can probably never get back to your original position if you sold, but you can try. I also bought then, I continue to buy now. I will buy in the future. Regret every sale, No regrets on every purchase.
zaxbeast 5y ago
Does the blockchain (or other miners) log the miner's IP addresses? That's why I don't like to mine on my local network
rurban 5y ago
So Paul Le Roux is out now as prime suspect. He was arrested 2012, and in 2009 he was still on the run, and certainly not in the US. More like in Brazil, Philippines or Hong Kong.
- akeck 5y ago
  True. Definitely a prime candidate for authoring True Crypt though. The book The Mastermind is a wild ride.
rshnotsecure 5y ago
The reverse DNS of the IP address mentioned is: h-68-164-57-219.lsan.ca.dynamic.globalcapacity.com according to SecurityTrails. The article also gives the following information: - HOST DETAILS: H-68-164-57-219.LSANCA54.DYNAMIC.COVAD.NET - IP Address: 68.164.57.219 The IP address is within a /16 block owned by Megapath, a Los Angeles hosting provider.
- slenk 5y ago
  But what about in 2009?
yob28 5y ago
AcedJF 5y ago
34.168904,-118.455922
- greyface- 5y ago
  A decade-old dynamic IP is one thing. Current GPS coordinates to someone's personal residence are another. I don't think this is appropriate to post on HN.
mrkramer 5y ago
If you want to find out who Satoshi is follow the money. How he, she or they bought bitcoin.org domain and bitcoin.org hosting? Cash in mail, credit card or bank transfer. All things that are tracked and recorded somewhere in someone's database or archive.
- cyberbanjo 5y ago
  How is cash in mail recorded?
  - mrkramer 5y ago
    You send it via courier company and after 2001 you can bet they are tracking and recording it.
    - slenk 5y ago
      So I paid cash and lied about my name to the semi-shady courier company..
      - mrkramer 5y ago
        Would you lie in the court or to the police? If so then it would be harsh lesson for you because you would get yourself in prison.
        slenk 5y ago
        How would this end up in court in front of police? The point is its not hard to lie to a courier service. Fedex is the #1 drug distributor...
        mrkramer 5y ago
        >How would this end up in court in front of police? The point is its not hard to lie to a courier service. What if cash in mail is used for terrorist attacks? They will get real identity of money sender sooner or later. >Fedex is the #1 drug distributor... Drug shipments get intercepted and sellers and buyers arrested not all but many. Of course you can get away with anything but are you willing to gamble? I do not mean you personally but anyone who is thinking about doing it.
erik998 5y ago
I always thought it was J Orlin Grabbe I figured he learned some lessons from Digital Monetary Trust during late 1990's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money1.htm https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money1.htm https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money2.htm https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money2.htm https://page.math.tu-berlin.de/~kant/teaching/hess/krypto-ws2006/des.htm https://page.math.tu-berlin.de/~kant/teaching/hess/krypto-ws... His textbook "International financial markets" has some C++ code. "What forbids us to tell the truth, laughingly?" — Horace, Satires, I.24.
- mersenne 5y ago
  He died in March 2008, even before the publication of the white paper.
ashwagary 5y ago
How do we know that's not the ip of a proxy or VPN?

183 points by sahil50 5y ago

Isn't there a guy literally called Satoshi Nakamoto, that lived near and friends with Hal Finney, in California. I think SN was probably more than one person, and I do think it was built with government involvement. The doxxed Satoshi himself worked as a government contractor I believe.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

topak3000 5y ago

[dead]

dot1x 5y ago

Satoshi is very obviously David Schwartz (Ripple). Check out his patents from '88.

pseudalopex 5y ago

2016 article. 2009 leak.

jcun4128 5y ago
Can't believe that guy's like "I'm Satoshi" goes to court

DantesKite 5y ago

It’s pretty remarkable he’s been able to keep secret for this long.

edf13 5y ago
Possibly passed away… it would be hard for anyone to resist the amount of money his early coin holding is now worth.
- spir 5y ago
  I think somebody smart enough to invent Bitcoin seems likely to have been smart enough to mine coins on a separate account, knowing he would never be able to touch the genesis wallet. I think Satoshi is alive and well and enjoying his riches. Good for them
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - vmception 5y ago
    Exactly. Anybody that mined those earlier blocks on the weird unknown hardware was also able to mine on known hardware under another identity. so A) Satoshi has other earnings, in bitcoin, that was held long enough to make Satoshi extremely rich, and sold under their normal known identity. While never needing to associate with the other identity. B) The private keys to the bitcoin mined in those original blocks were sold for cash over the counter for very large amounts to funds with longer time horizons. Bitcoin can operate in temporarily trusted environments. Bitcoin price has tanked every time very old Bitcoin is transferred onchain, so there is no need to transfer them onchain. We would never know.
    - jcpham2 5y ago
      You seem like a guy that's read the studies/blogs on the Satoshi/genesis nonces
      - vmception 5y ago
        yeah, I have, there are so many ways to elevate or downrank any altrustic version of Satoshi, or a dead/hiding Satoshi, or an incompetent Satoshi that lost private keys, since its also possible for there to already be an extremely rich Satoshi that doesn't have any incentive to look back its all fruitless to speculate
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      The problem with those private keys being sold off-net is that the buyer can never be sure the seller deleted every copy. Who would take that risk? And who would buy it and not use any of it? Even if the value tanks it'll still be a ton of money.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 5y ago

EDIT: Please explain in the comments - because I seriously do not understand that - why on earth you are downvoting this!? You're advocating something cruel. WTF? What is the problem about saying "leave a person alone who apparently WANTS to be left alone?". You're advocating stalking. The people who trying to figure out who Satoshi is and make it public should realize this: What they're effectively doing is trying to completely destroy someone's life just for them having written a piece of software. Because then everyone will assume (EDIT: not *know*, see the comments) that the person is insanely rich. And beyond the glorification of being rich everyone forgets what it actually means: You're a prisoner of your money. Want to go to a pub and have a beer? Not possible, you might get kidnapped or at least harassed by paparazzi. Want to go outside for a walk? Same as above. Want friends? Nope, how are you gonna find them if you cannot go outside? How can you trust anyone? Maybe they just want your money? Of course, the rich can mingle among each other. But this very much limits your possible circle of social contacts, and there's no law of nature which says that someone like Sathoshi might even want to be friends with Justin Bieber etc., or vice versa. Hobbies? Only those you can do alone. Want a girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse? See above. Also as a bonus a large portion of the public will HATE you, no matter what you do. Just see how much HN hates crypto. You might get tortured for money, lynched or whatever cruel imagination you can come up with. Enough people know you = anything is possible. Satoshi apparently wants to be left alone so you should do just that. They gave you a software for free which spawned a whole industry, they don't deserve to be harassed for that. If you don't like it then don't use it, but don't destroy the developer's life. Nobody forces you to use it - and even if someone did then go harass them, not the developer.

krm01 5y ago
Nice try Satoshi
xqoiu 5y ago
Example: Warren Buffett's personal security budget > Keeping the boss safe has cost [Berkshire] an average of US$339,000 a year since 2008, or US$4.4 million in total. https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style/luxury/article/3126736/does-warren-buffett-deserve-pay-rise-berkshire-hathaway-ceos https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style/luxury/article/3126736/...

tsywke44 5y ago

Is there a term for this, where a person discovers something extremely interesting, but doesn’t know the proper channels to make the knowledge public? In this case, releasing the info on a random spammy looking WP blog.

ljm 5y ago
It feels like an ARG, like Daniel Mullins is going to release a game in a few years that uses something in this blog as the key for a cypher.
alphabet9000 5y ago
the term is 'liberating'
- johnnyfived 5y ago
  Thank you
teekert 5y ago
So… What are the proper channels?

anm89 5y ago

I feel like Hal Finney and Nick Szabo were the two people who seem plausible and the fact that Hal and Satoshi were on different IP addresses that day seems to me like it's not Hal. So for me it feels pretty much settled that Satoshi is Szabo.

drawkbox 5y ago
Nick Szabo has been potentially mentioned as Satoshi for sometime [1] due to him working on decentralized currencies since 1998 with Bit Gold [2]. Elon Musk mentioned Nick Szabo on Lex Fridman's podcast as Szabo was also doing Bit Gold prior and is heavy into crypto and currencies. [3] > "Obviously I don't know who created bitcoin ... it seems as though Nick Szabo is probably more than anyone else responsible for the evolution of those ideas," said Musk, adding, "he claims not to be Nakamoto ... but he seems to be the one more responsible for the ideas behind it than anyone else." > Szabo is best known as the inventor of one of bitcoin’s predecessors, Bit Gold, and digital smart contracts—which eventually evolved to become a key part of the ethereum blockchain. Szabo has previously denied he's Satoshi Nakamoto, telling financial author Dominic Frisby in 2014, "I'm afraid you got it wrong doxing me as Satoshi, but I'm used to it." Szabo's full name is Nicholas Szabo [4]. Just seems quite a bit like Satoshi Nakamoto. It feels like there is something there potentially. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Satoshi_Nakamoto_speculation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Satoshi_Nakamoto_sp... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Bit_gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo#Bit_gold [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/12/28/elon-musk-reveals-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-theory-admits-he-doesnt-get-ethereum-and-issues-dogecoin-mars-prediction-amid-crypto-price-crash/?sh=629b6a185d0e https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/12/28/elon-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Elon Musk mentioned Nick Szabo on Lex Fridman's podcast as Szabo was also doing Bit Gold prior and is heavy into crypto and currencies. [3] >> "Obviously I don't know who created bitcoin ... it seems as though Nick Szabo is probably more than anyone else responsible for the evolution of those ideas," said Musk, adding, "he claims not to be Nakamoto ... but he seems to be the one more responsible for the ideas behind it than anyone else." Why do Elon Musk's speculations have any credibility here? It's not his field, and even in his field he has a track record of making confident public statements that turn out to be wildly wrong.

drawkbox 5y ago

Van Nuys, Los Angeles, CA was where the IP was located. > IP Address: 68.164.57.219 > IP Block: 68.164.57.128 – 68.164.57.255 > Reverse DNS: h-68-164-57-219.lsan.ca.dynamic.megapath.net > Host: Covad Communications. Van Nuys, CA, USA > Location: Van Nuys, CA, USA Could have even been something like Satoshi wasn't on his normal setup at the time and it slipped through. Maybe on vacation or a wireless connection that connected near there. Or the IP lookup was even slightly off and they were in Sherman Oaks or anything really. Sometimes even wireless connections can appear to come from an entirely different state based on the network. The IP could have also been spoofed or temporary. Covad Communications was the 16th biggest ISP at the time and then "Covad was acquired a by private equity firm, Platinum Equity, in April 2008. In 2010, it was sold to U.S. Venture Partners, which merged Covad, and Speakeasy into MegaPath." [1] It appears when this IP connected (Jan 2009) it was owned by the private equity firm Platinum Equity [2]. The IP was definitely logged in Los Angeles, beyond that it could be anything. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covad [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Equity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Equity

petertodd 5y ago
> Maybe on vacation or a wireless connection that connected near there. Bitcoin had been released a few days prior to that log file. So unlikely to be on vacation. As I mentioned in another comment, the IRC seeding mechanism isn't necessary to use Bitcoin, and it was publicly released at the time, so no reason to assume this is Satoshi.
- drawkbox 5y ago
  Potentially just living there, or there for something, or a false positive. > Bitcoin had been released a few days prior to that log file. So unlikely to be on vacation. Vacations are great for after shipping though, after the long slog of a project. Since it was new it would be a good time to escape before all the support requests and more usage increased. Maybe they couldn't stay away from that draw and then got a bit lazy on vacation in terms of opsec. Or maybe not. Good info nonetheless, it is one potential clue or not in the mystery.

paulsutter 5y ago

Anyone have an 2009 vintage geo-IP table? (the current mapping doesnt mean a lot)

aspenmayer 5y ago
Maybe look on Internet Archive to find an old MaxMind database?

pdevr 5y ago

For whatever it is worth, Dorian Nakamoto (whom Leah Goodman claimed to be "The Face Behind Bitcoin"[1]) stays nearby - within the realm of possibility :) [1] https://www.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/face-behind-bitcoin-247957.html https://www.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/face-behind-bitcoin-2479...

servytor 5y ago

edit: krapp below me is right, I AM AN IDIOT. I just ran it through an anagram website and trusted it without even checking. --- I always thought Satoshi Nakamoto was an anagram. Antonomasias ~ Satoshi Nakamoto Antonomasias: the substitution of an epithet or title for a proper name (e.g., the Bard for Shakespeare). So it seems like a play on words, because Satoshi Nakamoto is a real name, and therefore a group might have wanted the creator to have a human name.

krapp 5y ago
>I always thought Satoshi Nakamoto was an anagram. >Antonomasias ~ Satoshi Nakamoto Doesn't work. No H or K, too many N's.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
wallacoloo 5y ago
the closest anagram i can make from “antonomasias” is: Satosi nanamo seems like a stretch, unless there’s more that i’m missing.

petertodd 5y ago

"In the Jan of 2009 when Hal and Satoshi were working on Bitcoin Alpha version, Hal encountered an error with the software and he posted the debug log to the mailing list." The "dox" assumes that only three people were using Bitcoin at the time, and thus one of them must be Satoshi. That's a bad assumption, as Bitcoin was publicly available at that time, and was announced on the public cryptography mailing list, and we know for a fact that a few people tried it out early on. The IRC initial seeding mechanism was _not_ mandatory to use, let alone full time. So it wouldn't be surprising at all if Satoshi wasn't using it. "This is not a TOR exit node which implies that this is the IP address used by Satoshi on 2009-01-10 and he was in Van Nuys on this day" It's not a TOR exit node in 2016, when this article is published. That doesn't tell us anything about 2009.

victor22 5y ago
Peter himself! Thank you for your work, I had a great time chatting with you in Colombia back in 2017. Cheers!
davidgerard 5y ago
yeah, the leak is 2009-01-10, two days after Bitcoin 0.1 dropped
finite_jest 5y ago
As per LinuxBender's comment [1], ExoneraTor [2] tells us it hasn't been a TOR relay in 2009 either. I think Szabo is the most likely Satoshi candidate. He seems to have disappeared from public view since March, despite being a prolific Twitter [2]. I hope he is doing well, chilling on a beach in a Caribbean island. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29729498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29729498 [2]: https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57.219&timestamp=2009-01-10&lang=en https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57.... [3]: https://twitter.com/nickszabo4 https://twitter.com/nickszabo4
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

deafsquid69 5y ago

The keys can move without the coins moving. Think of it like the ultimate Casascius coins. There's no way to know whether or not Satoshi cashed out. I can't find the thread, but I'm pretty sure Adam Back even said this on bitcointalk and said that that would be how he'd move the money if he were Satoshi.

mbreese 5y ago
That’s true, but if someone bought the keys, then they’d be more likely to start moving/spending the coins.
anonAndOn 5y ago
How to dodge transaction fees and internet sleuths in one pass: Put a bitcoin in a wallet and sell the wallet.
Cantinflas 5y ago
How could that work? If I sell you a private key, then you get the private key, and I get the money... and the private key. You either move them right away or risk me moving them (or me selling the private key again to another guy)

misiti3780 5y ago

Doesnt this mean that somewhere, buried deep in a a database, someone can run a query to see who had the IP address on that day, and assuming it is a private residence there is at least a chance that is SN?

desireco42 5y ago
I am perfectly fine not knowing ever who Satoshi is. I think we need to learn to accept these things.
mersenne 5y ago
Satoshi Nakamoto went leap and bounds to hide his identity, this probably also included his online footprint.
sktrdie 5y ago
Yeah but leaking such data from an ISP would be considered illegal.
- KiranRao0 5y ago
  Is there some "legal process" (subpoena, etc) that could reveal this?
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    The spooks know, anyway. They don't even need to ask anybody.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  Why would that be illegal? Data like this is bought and sold daily. (Not condoning this, but privacy laws in the US are pretty weak)
yucky 5y ago
The US Intelligence community knows who Satoshi is. After all, they created it to destabilize competitor currencies. Satoshi is likely a Project Name, not a person. Nobody else could laugh at the idea of wanting to cash in $70 billion.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sktrdie 5y ago

I think of Satoshi as a genius for the invention. Unfortunately the invention is causing a global climate crisis. Similar to how Einstein's laws helped create the atomic bomb.

xunn0026 5y ago
- jandrese 5y ago
  It's certainly not helping. Bitcoin is astoundingly energy hungry and produces effectively nothing with the energy consumed. Textbook definition of wasteful behavior.
  - xunn0026 5y ago
    Assuming humans are somewhat rational it must produce something! At its worse interpretation it could be a casino. Humanity does a whole lot of wasteful things. Should we ban music, too? Parks perhaps? Switch to plain clothing? In other words, who are you to decide what's wasteful and what should be banned? I would more consider the ad industry to fit this definition. Yet I saw no computation how much energy and human brains it is wasting.
wyldfire 5y ago
> Unfortunately the invention is causing a global climate crisis. This is straight up bonkers. Yes: humanity's energy consumption is likely the cause of climate change. But the energy consumed goes into a lot of outputs: shelter, transportation, entertainment, commerce. You could legitimately regard proof-of-work as an inefficiency whose cost keeps increasing. If proof-of-stake is sufficient, then it's remarkably inefficient. But it produces something useful. Let's have some sense of perspective [1] about energy consumption before you put bitcoin or proof-of-work as the culprit for Earth's climate problems. [1] https://www.otherlab.com/blog-posts/us-energy-flow-super-sankey https://www.otherlab.com/blog-posts/us-energy-flow-super-san...

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

> This is not a TOR exit node which implies that this is the IP address used by Satoshi on 2009-01-10 How do we know it was not a tor exit node in January 2009?

LinuxBender 5y ago
One might use the ExoneraTor [1] [1] - https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57.219&timestamp=2009-01-10&lang=en https://metrics.torproject.org/exonerator.html?ip=68.164.57....

joseloyaio 5y ago

It's Nick Szabo. He uses his initials for his Pseudonyms (N.S) Nakamoto Satoshi = Bitcoin Nicolas Saberhagen = Monero

Jerrrry 5y ago
I am glad Obama gave Nick SS protection.
- finite_jest 5y ago
  That's one of most amusing conspiracy theories I've heard in a while :-)
yucky 5y ago
The most likely explanation I've read is that Szabo was involved on the Bitcoin project, at the behest of US Intelligence (perhaps team lead, working within a defined set of goals - it's speculation for now). Bitcoin is a very effective means of destabilizing currencies and extracting wealth out of non-friendly areas, so for the US Intelligence community it is a boon. Szabo later went on to improve on the concept with Monero, without the involvement of US Intelligence (obviously, since Monero is very unfriendly for the US Govt). Again, speculation. The only person capable of creating both, is likely Szabo. Monero being a big middle finger to "the team" behind Bitcoin, who still control the keys.
- mersenne 5y ago
  That doesn’t make sense.
  - yucky 5y ago
    Which part?
BTCOG 5y ago
It was in fact, Len Sassaman. From anonymous remailers and his penchant for anonymously released work back in the mailing lists, to MojoNetwork with Bram. His British spelling, his time zone abroad when working in academia and posting online. His circle. Before he committed suicide due to his neurological issues and loss of passion for life, Satoshi last said “I’ve moved on to other things and probably won’t be around in the future.” He kept this secret even from his own wife. Alas, I hate to post this here just like this but it's my belief that it's an open secret. Only those close enough to suspect and know his pathology venture the guess. His wish is to have the work carried on nameless and to speak for itself. He hated notoriety for notoriety sake. I feel disrespectful even posting this, but it was not fucking Nick Szabo.

zaxbeast 5y ago

Does the blockchain log the miner's IP addresses? That's why I don't like to mine on my local network

rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
No, it does not. Transactions also do not contain IP addresses. Some chain explorer will track 'first seen IP', eg: the first IP that relayed the transaction, but this does not mean the sender. Same deal with blocks -- you can see the IP sent your peer the block, but not the IP that created it, which may or may not be the same. With Dandelion routing, you can mask the sender IP behind multiple other relaying nodes. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0156 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0156
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  Transactions can contain IP addresses. You can send BTC to an IP address. This is not a good thing to do - the documentation even says it "will probably be stolen immediately"
  - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
    Many many years ago. The initial designs for Bitcoin had a 'pay to IP' feature, probably to approximate traditional banking IP to IP transfer. It has not existed for almost 8 years now. "This feature has been removed from Bitcoin Core as-of v0.8.0[1]." (Feb 2013).
    - Jerrrry 5y ago
      damn time flies. I haven't bought a bitcoin since it went from $20 to $400. the change in my tumbling accounts are worth more than everything i had bought since then combined. thanks china!
      - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
        I recommend dollar cost averaging over time to 'stack sats'. You can probably never get back to your original position if you sold, but you can try. I also bought then, I continue to buy now. I will buy in the future. Regret every sale, No regrets on every purchase.

zaxbeast 5y ago

Does the blockchain (or other miners) log the miner's IP addresses? That's why I don't like to mine on my local network

rurban 5y ago

So Paul Le Roux is out now as prime suspect. He was arrested 2012, and in 2009 he was still on the run, and certainly not in the US. More like in Brazil, Philippines or Hong Kong.

akeck 5y ago
True. Definitely a prime candidate for authoring True Crypt though. The book The Mastermind is a wild ride.

rshnotsecure 5y ago

The reverse DNS of the IP address mentioned is: h-68-164-57-219.lsan.ca.dynamic.globalcapacity.com according to SecurityTrails. The article also gives the following information: - HOST DETAILS: H-68-164-57-219.LSANCA54.DYNAMIC.COVAD.NET - IP Address: 68.164.57.219 The IP address is within a /16 block owned by Megapath, a Los Angeles hosting provider.

slenk 5y ago
But what about in 2009?

yob28 5y ago

AcedJF 5y ago

34.168904,-118.455922

greyface- 5y ago
A decade-old dynamic IP is one thing. Current GPS coordinates to someone's personal residence are another. I don't think this is appropriate to post on HN.

mrkramer 5y ago

If you want to find out who Satoshi is follow the money. How he, she or they bought bitcoin.org domain and bitcoin.org hosting? Cash in mail, credit card or bank transfer. All things that are tracked and recorded somewhere in someone's database or archive.

cyberbanjo 5y ago
How is cash in mail recorded?
- mrkramer 5y ago
  You send it via courier company and after 2001 you can bet they are tracking and recording it.
  - slenk 5y ago
    So I paid cash and lied about my name to the semi-shady courier company..
    - mrkramer 5y ago
      Would you lie in the court or to the police? If so then it would be harsh lesson for you because you would get yourself in prison.
      - slenk 5y ago
        How would this end up in court in front of police? The point is its not hard to lie to a courier service. Fedex is the #1 drug distributor...
        mrkramer 5y ago
        >How would this end up in court in front of police? The point is its not hard to lie to a courier service. What if cash in mail is used for terrorist attacks? They will get real identity of money sender sooner or later. >Fedex is the #1 drug distributor... Drug shipments get intercepted and sellers and buyers arrested not all but many. Of course you can get away with anything but are you willing to gamble? I do not mean you personally but anyone who is thinking about doing it.

erik998 5y ago

I always thought it was J Orlin Grabbe I figured he learned some lessons from Digital Monetary Trust during late 1990's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money1.htm https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money1.htm https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money2.htm https://www.hermetic.ch/crypto/kalliste/money2.htm https://page.math.tu-berlin.de/~kant/teaching/hess/krypto-ws2006/des.htm https://page.math.tu-berlin.de/~kant/teaching/hess/krypto-ws... His textbook "International financial markets" has some C++ code. "What forbids us to tell the truth, laughingly?" — Horace, Satires, I.24.

mersenne 5y ago
He died in March 2008, even before the publication of the white paper.

ashwagary 5y ago

How do we know that's not the ip of a proxy or VPN?