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That tool is double sided as well: 1. Don't report stolen property as income? Tax evasion. 2. Report stolen property as income? Proof of theft, readily share

That tool is double sided as well: 1. Don't report stolen property as income? Tax evasion. 2. Report stolen property as income? Proof of theft, readily shared to other TLA's

otterley 5y ago
You don’t have to admit or declare that the property was stolen. There’s no line for stolen property on a tax return, after all. There’s a catch-all line for “other income” on Schedule 1 that the value must be reported on.
themitigating 5y ago
You don't specify stolen items
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ceejayoz 5y ago
The IRS, in theory, isn't allowed to share the information. https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income-tax/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income... > If you tell the IRS you made $1 million from stealing money or dealing drugs, does the agency tip off the cops? > Legally, it can't, unless a law-enforcement agency gets a court order granting it access to a specific taxpayer's return. The IRS isn't supposed to proactively alert other agencies about misdeeds unless terrorism is involved. In that case, it still needs a court order to disclose anything, but the IRS can initiate the legal process on its own.
- SilasX 5y ago
  Technically, that would mean they aren't allowed to volunteer the information; the source says they do share it once ordered to. Which, IMHO, violates the Fifth Amendment, as any compelled testimony shouldn't be admissible against you, but of course our jurists gave the government a pass on that.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Or they just use it to start parallel construction. No need to enter it into court or record it as evidence.
  - wodenokoto 5y ago
    > the source says they do share it once ordered to. I’m no lawyer, but doesn’t _everybody_ have to share information once met with a court order?
    - nradov 5y ago
      A court order can't legally force someone to share incriminating information. Thus if prosecutors want a piece of information for other purposes (like to prosecute a bigger criminal) they will often grant criminal immunity on that point. Then the person being questioned has no 5th Amendment right to remain silent.
      - akerl_ 5y ago
        I’m not sure where you’re sourcing this, but courts can totally force you to share incriminating information. They cannot compel you to testify against yourself. As a more mundane example, a court can grant a search warrant compelling you to turn over your computer so that police can look for proof of suspected criminal activity. Likewise, they can get a court order compelling the IRS to hand over your tax returns.
        nradov 5y ago
        Within the current interpretation of the 5th Amendment, ordering someone to turn over physical property like a computer or safe key isn't legally considered as compelling someone "to be a witness against himself". If you want the source then there are many Supreme Court opinions on this issue. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.aspx https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.aspx
        5y ago
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  There seems to be enough loose evidence that this info is used for parallel construction without the IRS' knowledge that you could claim it to defend against certain tax fraud related to illegal activity.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    This is technically true in the sense that you can claim any crazy thing you want to (see, e.g., the whole “freemen-on-the-land” movement.) It is somewhat less true in the sense where “can claim X” includes the implication that the claim of X stands a whelk’s chance in a supernova of prevailing in court.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      You can claim that about any otherwise reasonable argument. It works just as well for past (and current) civil rights issues as it does this. You need to instead apply a test of reasonableness. Doing that in this case is asking "Would a reasonable person believe that the government uses reported tax earnings for parallel construction?" to which I believe the answer is "yes." That most judges are so morally bankrupt as to disagree with you is a separate issue.
- Apofis 5y ago
  Thank you! I was wondering how this works in practice.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  In Canada, our IRS (the CRA) can only rat out your crimes to police if they’re “serious”, and that includes anything that could involve a sentence of 14 years. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/revenue-canada-has-new-powers-to-pass-suspect-criminal-info-to-police-1.2949693 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/revenue-canada-has-new-powe... So when we re-wrote all of our marijuana laws, most infractions were made to include a sentence that ranged “up to” 14 years, e.g. sharing a joint with a 17 year old or growing 5 plants instead of your legally permitted 4. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/cannabis/ https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/cannabis/ Who says the war on drugs is dead…
gonzo 5y ago
In United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259, 264 (1927), the U.S. Supreme Court stated that the taxpayer "could not draw a conjurer's circle around the whole matter by his own declaration that to write any word upon the government blank would bring him into danger of the law." The IRS says you can declare “miscellaneous other income”.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  You can put "misc." or "various" in a surprisingly large number of places on tax forms.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

That tool is double sided as well: 1. Don't report stolen property as income? Tax evasion. 2. Report stolen property as income? Proof of theft, readily shared to other TLA's

otterley 5y ago

You don’t have to admit or declare that the property was stolen. There’s no line for stolen property on a tax return, after all. There’s a catch-all line for “other income” on Schedule 1 that the value must be reported on.

themitigating 5y ago

You don't specify stolen items

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

ceejayoz 5y ago

The IRS, in theory, isn't allowed to share the information. https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income-tax/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income... > If you tell the IRS you made $1 million from stealing money or dealing drugs, does the agency tip off the cops? > Legally, it can't, unless a law-enforcement agency gets a court order granting it access to a specific taxpayer's return. The IRS isn't supposed to proactively alert other agencies about misdeeds unless terrorism is involved. In that case, it still needs a court order to disclose anything, but the IRS can initiate the legal process on its own.

SilasX 5y ago
Technically, that would mean they aren't allowed to volunteer the information; the source says they do share it once ordered to. Which, IMHO, violates the Fifth Amendment, as any compelled testimony shouldn't be admissible against you, but of course our jurists gave the government a pass on that.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Or they just use it to start parallel construction. No need to enter it into court or record it as evidence.
- wodenokoto 5y ago
  > the source says they do share it once ordered to. I’m no lawyer, but doesn’t _everybody_ have to share information once met with a court order?
  - nradov 5y ago
    A court order can't legally force someone to share incriminating information. Thus if prosecutors want a piece of information for other purposes (like to prosecute a bigger criminal) they will often grant criminal immunity on that point. Then the person being questioned has no 5th Amendment right to remain silent.
    - akerl_ 5y ago
      I’m not sure where you’re sourcing this, but courts can totally force you to share incriminating information. They cannot compel you to testify against yourself. As a more mundane example, a court can grant a search warrant compelling you to turn over your computer so that police can look for proof of suspected criminal activity. Likewise, they can get a court order compelling the IRS to hand over your tax returns.
      - nradov 5y ago
        Within the current interpretation of the 5th Amendment, ordering someone to turn over physical property like a computer or safe key isn't legally considered as compelling someone "to be a witness against himself". If you want the source then there are many Supreme Court opinions on this issue. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.aspx https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.aspx
        5y ago
R0b0t1 5y ago
There seems to be enough loose evidence that this info is used for parallel construction without the IRS' knowledge that you could claim it to defend against certain tax fraud related to illegal activity.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  This is technically true in the sense that you can claim any crazy thing you want to (see, e.g., the whole “freemen-on-the-land” movement.) It is somewhat less true in the sense where “can claim X” includes the implication that the claim of X stands a whelk’s chance in a supernova of prevailing in court.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    You can claim that about any otherwise reasonable argument. It works just as well for past (and current) civil rights issues as it does this. You need to instead apply a test of reasonableness. Doing that in this case is asking "Would a reasonable person believe that the government uses reported tax earnings for parallel construction?" to which I believe the answer is "yes." That most judges are so morally bankrupt as to disagree with you is a separate issue.
Apofis 5y ago
Thank you! I was wondering how this works in practice.
Scoundreller 5y ago
In Canada, our IRS (the CRA) can only rat out your crimes to police if they’re “serious”, and that includes anything that could involve a sentence of 14 years. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/revenue-canada-has-new-powers-to-pass-suspect-criminal-info-to-police-1.2949693 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/revenue-canada-has-new-powe... So when we re-wrote all of our marijuana laws, most infractions were made to include a sentence that ranged “up to” 14 years, e.g. sharing a joint with a 17 year old or growing 5 plants instead of your legally permitted 4. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/cannabis/ https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/cannabis/ Who says the war on drugs is dead…

gonzo 5y ago

In United States v. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259, 264 (1927), the U.S. Supreme Court stated that the taxpayer "could not draw a conjurer's circle around the whole matter by his own declaration that to write any word upon the government blank would bring him into danger of the law." The IRS says you can declare “miscellaneous other income”.

jeffbee 5y ago
You can put "misc." or "various" in a surprisingly large number of places on tax forms.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]