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Will Citroen manage to re-invent the wheel?
- davidhyde 5y agoWhat is the point of exposing the wheels like that? Seems to serve no purpose other than aesthetics and looks to be very dangerous (a finger and foot trap).
- blacksmith_tb 5y agoWe don't cover or shroud car tires much at present, and that doesn't cause injuries particularly? I do agree this design seems to be more aesthetic than practical (I'd like to see it in the rain...)
- sp332 5y agoSure but tires these days have a bumper somewhere in the direction of travel. If the spherical tires are going straight sideways, it's more likely to catch something by accident. Also, you're not generally going to pinch your finger in a wheel well like you would with this arrangement.
- Svip 5y agoSeems slightly ironic for the company that invented the unibody to re-invent a separate chassis and body.
- klyrs 5y agoI'd love to watch this drive over a speedbump
- whatever1 5y agoWhat about grip? Spheres have so much less contact area compared to our cylindrical wheels
- dpark 5y agoDo they? Tires only have significant contact area because they deform. I would expect that with the right air pressure, these would match the contact area. I’m more concerned about the fact that the tires have no actual tread, which means they’re going to be unusable in the rain. Of course this whole thing makes no sense so none of this matters.
- melenaboija 5y agoIt may still be useful for warehousing and indoor spaces
- shawnz 5y agoThere's already a way superior solution for that use case, already in common use today: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecanum_wheel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecanum_wheel
- dpark 5y agoI had that same immediate thought and then realized that it doesn’t make sense there either. The interchangeable tops seems uninteresting and the spherical “wheels” don’t seem to deliver any real value over wheels, just more complexity.
- carlmr 5y ago>The interchangeable tops seems uninteresting The interchangeable tops would be whats loaded in the warehouse. >and the spherical “wheels” don’t seem to deliver any real value over wheels, just more complexity. They take away a lot of navigational complexity in a warehouse setting where you don't have much space. And they could do exactly the maneuvers necessary in that setting, like bringing a package directly into its designated space, unloading it and then driving out underneath.
- db65edfc7996 5y ago>They take away a lot of navigational complexity in a warehouse setting where you don't have much space These already exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJtpPyVM_y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJtpPyVM_y4 I swear this was a background element in one of the new Star Trek's. Failing to find a clip. At the time, I thought it was a waste of special effects, only to later discover it was a real product.
- dpark 5y agoThat is certainly cool, but the video seems like evidence that it’s not actually very useful. The forklift pointlessly drives sideways to show it can, but a standard forklift could just turn and go straight so what’s the value from all the extra complexity? Those sidewinder wheels seem like a much better solution than the captive spheres in the concept car, though.
- agumonkey 5y agohttps://archive.md/xlM3c https://archive.md/xlM3c
- devadvance 5y agoPutting aside gripping strength versus traditional wheels for a moment, it would be interesting to see if this would enable more efficient street geometries. For example, due to the reduced turning radius, could this open up additional safety buffer space for pedestrians at city crosswalks?
- dpark 5y agoThese don’t provide a better turning radius than traditional wheels. The reduced turning radius only happens because the left and right wheels can spin independently, but you can do that with traditional wheels (but not traditional drive trains). I’m not sure that this does anything for pedestrian safety, though.
- ralusek 5y agoWheels like this could literally turn the car 360 degrees in place...
- dathinab 5y agoYes but only if you stand on a point, not in moving traffic. E.g. if you are on a bike you can have a hyper small turning radius, but only if you mover very very slow (but not too slow ;) ). The problem is requiring such a radius would be a safety hazard, as people would all the time not get the turn due to driving to fast, even if they literally started driving a moment ago due to a red traffic light.
- dpark 5y agoRegular wheels can literally do that as well. Left wheels forward, right wheels reverse will spin a vehicle like a top. Spherical wheels can do it more efficiently because they can do it with less slippage. But regular wheels can absolutely do that maneuver. Even tracks can. Heavy equipment does this all the time.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
- hk__2 5y agoThe article really reads like “here is what some marketing people did and based on zero other information here is what we could expect or maybe not because as I said we don’t have any information but here is some text just so you think there is more information when in fact there is nothing”.
- dntrkv 5y agoExactly my thoughts. I kept thinking the interesting part is coming, but no, it’s just someone’s thoughts on a pre-alpha concept that nobody even pretends will ever become a reality.
- dpark 5y agoThey’re mocking the concept. That’s why there’s nothing interesting here. They think the idea is stupid. “ Well, perhaps when this solution comes out, the government will have made sure that every square foot of tarmac is perfectly level everywhere in the world. Yes, I think that’s right. And anyway, in these clips previewing the car in a futuristic environment, you don’t ever see any bumps in the road, now do you?”
- jdonaldson 5y agoThere’s off road and on road vehicles. There may be level and unlevel road vehicles.
- wongarsu 5y agoMost super cars are what you would call level road vehicles. The distinction wouldn't be entirely new
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoI wouldn't call this a "road vehicle", because there are basically no real world roads this flat. I drive a Chevy Volt in urban areas only and I'm constantly complaining how low the clearance is. I could see this in use in factories, but this technology basically already exists so not sure what advantage these spherical wheels would give.
- Schroedingersat 5y agoAn electric car with a stationary bike in it. Yes. This is definitely the solution we need. There's no other way to get exercise whilst transporting yourself.
- lodovic 5y agoThis makes sense as it has a 25 km/h top speed
- Schroedingersat 5y agoSo same as an ebike or upright bicycle then?
- ehnto 5y agoDon't worry, you can take an electric scooter in the cabin with you to solve the last mile problem! Phew, that was a close one. You almost became a cyclist!
- Schroedingersat 5y agoOr worse: A pedestrian. But luckily with this you'll still be able to wait for 10 minutes, then drive a circuitous 5km route rather than walking to the shop your house shares a fence with.
- trhway 5y agothere is no need for such radical approach. With electric motor in the wheel instead of having a drive shaft, we can have regular wheels turning 90 degree and thus having car move even sideways.
- Someone 5y agoA concept car is an exercise aimed at keeping your designers happy (might be cheaper and/or more effective than giving them a bonus at keeping them motivated in their job) and at, maybe, getting one or two good original and useful ideas. The customizability in this concept is the over-the-top version of what Citroen offers for the new Ami, where about €60 will buy you a set of stickers (https://ma-belle-voiture.com/en/72-citroen-ami https://ma-belle-voiture.com/en/72-citroen-ami) (I also think the idea of having different ‘tops’ for a car isn’t new, but can’t find an example online)
- tromp 5y agoDiscussed 3 months ago at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28745304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28745304
- at_a_remove 5y agoI seem to remember this about twenty years ago. Different company, but the same concept -- everything was in a "skateboard," with the main body being the batteries, each wheel had its own motor, and you could swap out compartments.
- greggyb 5y agoI remember reading about a similar concept at least 15 years ago, perhaps more, but for hydrogen fuel cell cars, rather than all electric. They kept traditional wheels, though.
- ryukafalz 5y ago> Going for this feature will replace the (obligatory) stops at the gym before going to work although you might still find yourself appreciating the authenticity of going to an actual fitness place with humans alongside you. Ah yes, because the alternative to biking in place in a pod-car on your way to work is to bike in place in a gym. Not, say, to ride an actual bike to work and get your exercise in that way! (And have other humans alongside you to boot.)
- egypturnash 5y agoSlower, too. the Citroen Autonomous Mobility Vision has a top speed of only 25 km/h. Which is about 15.5 mph, for us backwards Americans. I think I’m faster than that on my cheap, shitty junker of a bicycle.
- Skunkleton 5y agoYeah, but how are you supposed to bike in-place with your bike while still going faster than 15 mph??
- b9a2cab5 5y agoHave you ever tried to bike to work regularly? There are a huge number of problems, at least in American cities that aren't NYC: - drivers don't give a crap about cyclists - every time it rains everything you wear gets mud all over it - no bike lanes in a lot of roads - terrible public transit, either you sit next to people who smell like pee or the train comes every 30 mins or there are no bike racks or your bike is likely to get stolen if you leave it alone for 30 seconds - if you need to pick something up on the way to or from work you basically need to wheel around your bike in the store because otherwise it's 100% getting stolen by some guys with an electric saw - some American cities are very hilly, so any commute longer than 2-3 miles becomes very tiring
- tasogare 5y agoOK for American cities, but otherwise the proposition is very valid. I've been doing it for years.
- yellow_lead 5y ago> How does the car cope with zero ground clearance and what seems like no possible suspension travel. Well, perhaps when this solution comes out, the government will have made sure that every square foot of tarmac is perfectly level everywhere in the world. Can't tell if this is satire.
- dathinab 5y agoOr it's from a POV of a supper car dependent person living in a supper car dependent area where that seems like something which will happen if humanity has a "good" future.
- marcosdumay 5y agoI think not even on the internet you will be able to find somebody that believes any government can make roads perfectly flat.
- TKDynation 5y agoHi yellow_kead, I'm TK Dynation the writer of this article and yes, it is very much satiric and not to be taken seriously.
- amelius 5y agoThose semi-open wheelcases are a safety hazard.
- GordonS 5y agoThey are, but I presume it was a deliberate decision so you could see the wheels - it is just a concept, after all.
- dathinab 5y agoThis looks like a useful thing for special purpose areas, like like the kinds of areas like areas with a set of exhibition halls and similar. But thinking it makes sense "on a normal street" sound to me like a solution from an American world view bubble. Like e.g. the ground clearing of this thing is a catastrophe and speed bumps are a standard solutions for reducing people going gross over speed limits in many parts of the worlds (or the streets are less maintained, or the streets go steep up and down in the mountains). Similar for many parts of the world the _proven_ solution of cars is to have much less of them (and in some cases avoid unnecessary large cars). Which works out quite well in many cases. And has many benefits, like less resource wasted, less noise pollution, less air pollution, better local economics, etc. Many of this factors still apply to electric cars in some way or another. The only areas where such a concept makes sense is if you: - have supper well maintained roads - either have a super high population density (e.g. Tokyo, or Singapore) but then you probably don't have size for that fancy setup you can put onto it - or are supper dependent on cars to a point where it feels impossible to not rely on cars (many parts of the US)
- stubish 5y agoWhat I find weird is they are showing this as a concept car. The idea seems better suited for autonomous trolleys or personal mobility in places like shopping centers or airports.
- dathinab 5y agoI think it might be some kind of "car designer trend". I have seen such concept cars already from all kind of companies years ago. And common factors are: - Ball wheels - Whole car in the "bottom plate", top in some way customizable/replaceable. - Self driving or joystick controller
- rmason 5y agoForget the imagined future. What's needed now is a sled complete with batteries and electric motor(s) utilizing regular tires. You know how many people in places like Detroit have the skill set to build electric cars with that small amount of help? Create a fiberglass body, source an interior and software and you're in business. Admittedly you won't compete against Tesla or the Big 3 but there are plenty of niches where you might. They won't all be sports cars either. Taxis, police cars or special purpose delivery vehicles. There are small profitable niches where no one has even entertained the idea of battery powered cars yet. I love the idea of a one pizza car company operating out of what now is an abandoned warehouse in Detroit.
- gloryjulio 5y agoOn you point of Detroit. I believe that's exactly what China did. They made cars with the modified existing infrastructures. That's how they produced a few domestic ev brands so fast, which IPOed in US in just a few years.
- FullyFunctional 5y agoI'm really struggling to understand why this exist. Yes, clearly this is 100% a marketing effort to make Citroen look "cool" or even still-relevant, but anyone watching this should yell "He has no clothes on" as this "concept" has no feasible path to reality and isn't even an obviously good solution to the problems they are trying to solve. Contemporary automobiles are clearly not perfect, but they have evolved over a century to put considerable thought to safety and efficiency. This "concept" throws everything out the window in exchange for ... cars that go sideways. I'd like to contrast this to Volvo's effort a decade or so ago where they asked the question "Car design is all male focused, but what are the _actual_ issues women care about?" and came out with really useful if mundane ideas (easier/hands-free access, greener material, etc). There are things that can actually be realized and would be helpful.
- Swizec 5y agoIf I remember correctly that design had a fatal masculine flaw: “Women don’t care about mechanics so we’ll make the engine bay unopenable or hide the engine under an extra trunk” They were right that most drivers don’t care about that and think of cars as tools, not hobbies. But framing it as a women’s thing was rough. I think many modern cars are actually quite close to that prototype in spirit. Especially the electric versions.
- FullyFunctional 5y ago:) I didn't say it was perfect, but my point was one of concepts as something feasible as opposed to pure marketing fluff.
- northisup 5y agoFinally, the tank police future is here!
- civilized 5y agoI was trying to find an all-electric 7-seater the other day. The market for this type of vehicle is nearly non-existent in the US, but for a brief moment I thought the Citroen e-Berlingo was the answer to my prayers: far superior in range and price point to any competing US vehicle. I was ready to look past the fugly Euro design and pony up. But of course, they don't sell in America. So, so much for that.
- xwolfi 5y agoNo, it's not that they dont sell there, it s that you dont buy them. Too busy buying pickup truck-sized machines to 16yo children and calling everything not spitting black diesel smoke "fugly Euro" :p
- civilized 5y agoAh right, we "ugly Americans" are always pretending to know things we don't know, like whether a car dealer we wish to buy from sells in our own market. We should defer to our international betters on these sort of basic facts, as well as on the appropriate number of random blue rounded rectangular rings that should appear on the exterior of a car (the answer, apparently, is much more)
- xwolfi 5y agoWell I don't know about blue rounded rectangular rings, but I like the american attention to such details as making sure your trunk has a separator and an inside handle if people kidnap you at gunpoint and put you in your own trunk. This takes time for us in France to build such cars with such sort of regulations that you won't buy anyway because they're just fugly euro and not manly japanese. Start lobbying your congressman for more Citroen imports though, who knows, it may last a while before the next "Liberty Fries" boycott because someone here refused to murder some children in some "shit country" :p
- QuarterReptile 5y agoChrysler Pacifica, though only for the first (estimated) 33 miles. Still, I've been very tempted as I shop around minivans. 33 miles is enough for almost any day of my driving, aside from trips. If I'm regularly exceeding that distance in a day, it's time for me to move somewhere more compact.
- rq1 5y agoA lot of negative comments. Imagine now it Musk twitted this…
- cosmojg 5y agohttps://scribe.rip/@tkdynation/will-citroen-manage-to-reinvent-the-wheel-b74a07c056ce https://scribe.rip/@tkdynation/will-citroen-manage-to-reinve...
- SeanLuke 5y agoThis headline is what Betteridge's law was made for.
- jrm4 5y agoOkay, so I love this. Yes, like all of you, it feels a little ridiculous to me. Maybe a LOT ridiculous. But, I don't know, 99% of the time someone tries to sell you on some "bold thinking," it just isn't. Love it or hate it, I really respect that they're putting something genuinely different out there. Respect to them for actually doing what Elon Musk imagines he's doing.
- sergiomattei 5y agoI really like this concept, and I appreciate dollars being thrown into it - even if it ends up not being viable in the end.
- pvaldes 5y agoTrying to restore some buzz for the maker at the same time that Citroen is progressively diluting their both main brands (Citroen and DS) into the Stellantis group Citroen is not a "french company" anymore. It belongs currently to Stellantis that includes Opel, Maseratti, Lancia, Peugeot, Fiat, Chrystler or Jeep under the same brand.
- GordonS 5y agoHah, that mockup of the "JCDecaux City Provider" driving in a city street is absolutely hilarious! Aside from the ridiculous "cabs" and zero ground-clearance, I wonder if the idea of spherical wheels has any legs. I presume it would be too complex for an average human to control, but I wonder if it might make sense for autonomous vehicles - it would give them much more scope to manoeuvre, and might lead to increased safety.
- kingcharles 5y agoAbsolutely no-one mentioned the Audi concept from 2004 that had the same feature? You saw it in iRobot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_RSQ#:~:text=The%20car%20uses%20spheres%20instead%20of%20conventional%20wheels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_RSQ#:~:text=The%20car%20u....