23 ms·

This year, Oculus has sold more headsets than Microsoft did Xboxes

122 points by binarynate 5y ago

anothernewdude 5y ago
How are people going to buy Oculus when they can't get the cards to support it?
- manojlds 5y ago
  It's (Quest 2) a standalone VR headset first and foremost.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  What "cards"?
- sb057 5y ago
  Plenty of people are getting graphics cards, it's just that demand is massively outstripping supply.
- arnaudsm 5y ago
  The GPU shortage was my deciding factor for buying a Quest2. Simple games like Beat Saber are indistinguable from PC, it's a marvel of optimization. My GTX1060 stuttered more than the Quest mobile chip.
- mlajtos 5y ago
  Oculus Quest 1 and 2 are standalone VR headsets, which means that the single device is everything you need to play games. You don't need PC, but if you have it you can also use headset to play PCVR games through Steam – with wire or wireless if you have capable wifi. Even though XR2 chipset in Quest 2 is weak in comparison to beefy PC with NVIDIA RTX 3090, the games are optimized for it and runs smoothly at 90/120Hz. A lot of games are made in low-poly style exactly because of poor hardware, but some games can pull off some pretty decent looking graphics (Eleven, Climb 2, Robo Recall, etc.). I expect that graphics will get much better (HL Alyx better) on standalone VR headsets with Apple's take on this segment.
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nick0garvey 5y ago
The implication here is the demand for Oculus is higher than for Xboxes. But Xbox has been extremely difficult to buy this past year, where an Oculus is readily available. Still an interesting data point, but misleading on its own.
- dado3212 5y ago
  This years sales have beaten the last 5 years of Xbox sales, so not sure how convincing supply chain issues are.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    The Xbox One was also a distant also-ran to the PS4.
  - puchatek 5y ago
    I'm that case the title could also be made more accurate
  - Matthias247 5y ago
    I tried buying a series X for 4 month with no luck. Everything which shows up online is sold out within seconds. So yes - the supply chain issues are very real.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  Maybe the demand for new gaming experiences is being satisfied by Oculus due to lower costs and better availability. Maybe it's not misleading at all if Meta starts to eat the share of dollars/hours. Only time will tell if people will continue to use them beyond their initial novelty.
  - innocentoldguy 5y ago
    I agree with you and it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Personally, I purchased an Oculus Quest 2 and a Valve Index about nine months ago because I couldn't find a Playstation or Xbox system in stock. I wasn't expecting much from either system (especially the Quest 2, since it is basically a cell phone with goggles and a couple of hand controllers) but they've both grown on me. I love the Quest's portability and the Index's screen resolution and adjustability are excellent. Meta's customer support for warranty issues has also been excellent (much, much, MUCH nicer than Sony's). I've also found a lot of games I like, such as: - Death: Unchained - Alyx - The Room VR - Obduction - Myst VR I've enjoyed both VR systems to the point that I haven't bothered to check the availability of Sony's or Microsoft's offerings recently. I'm enjoying what I have. I don't know why Sony and Microsoft never seem to be able to predict the market and create enough products to meet demand, but they always seem to struggle with this (I know there's a global chip shortage at the moment, but Sony especially has had this problem for years). Now that decent enough competitors exist, Sony and Microsoft might find their marketshare eroding due to their inability to satisfy market demands.
cagr 5y ago
Chris Dixon is dishonestly pumping Web3 as if it exists today. He has a huge financial incentive to do so because of A16Z putting $2B into a crypto mandated fund. Mark my words, retail investors and speculators with everything to lose will get sucked into buying the tokens people like him promote and be left with nothing of utility. "Web3" as it is being proposed now is essentially an unregistered securities offering. The SEC is asleep at the wheel and A16Z is taking full advantage of it, as is their capitalistic right. This is the 2017 ICO craze rebranded.
- izend 5y ago
  The Fed / SEC is accepting it because it attracts liquidity and prevents it from pouring into public stock markets.
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brian-armstrong 5y ago
It's amusing to talk to Quest owners in VRChat. They talk about as a mark of shame, and inevitably want to upgrade to a "real" headset. If nothing else I suspect the Quest drives a number of regret purchases into the Index, so it does have some marginal utility!
- puchatek 5y ago
  You mean the original quest model, as opposed to the quest 2 i assume?
  - brian-armstrong 5y ago
    Both. The Quest is practically a second-class citizen in VRChat. It can't run many models or worlds unless it's PC linked and running on desktop hardware.
    - hsod 5y ago
      To be clear, the people who can run these models and worlds are also tethered to a PC. So the quest isn’t any worse than the competition. The complaint here seems to be that it isn’t better enough to justify… well something I’m sure
    - jayd16 5y ago
      So its more about stand alone vs PC? The Quest display and tracking is pretty great.
      - brian-armstrong 5y ago
        Yeah, but the PC is quite a large fraction of the cost of going from nothing to full Index system. If you don't already have a good gaming PC then the Quest alone can't help you, and once you have one you might as well get a system that can also easily do full body tracking.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    Quest as a platform is nonexistent in “gamer” PoV. It’s just the cheapest and most robust _SteamVR_ headset.
georgemcbay 5y ago
This is 100% anecdotal and I'm sure other people have different experiences and ultimately it may not be directly relevant to the fact being pointed out in this linked tweet, but... As a gamer with a lot of gamer friends (split among PC & console, though more console than PC, I play on both) I know quite a few people (close to 10) who bought both VR headsets (some Oculus, some not) and Xbox Series Xs over the past year and a half. Every single person I know including myself used the VR headset a lot for about 2 weeks and then barely touched it except for occasionally pulling it out to show friends/family. Meanwhile we all play games on the Xbox nearly nightly. I love a good VR game but it just feels like though the headset hardware is pretty close to "there" that its still really difficult to deliver good experiences in a flexible way due to input/tactile feedback (or lack thereof) concerns. So most people that try out VR will play a lot of beat saber, tool around with a shooter like Arizona Sunshine, and then go back to playing traditional non-VR games.
- innocentoldguy 5y ago
  This is exactly what I did with my Playstation VR a few years ago. I played it for a couple of weeks and then only turned it on to show friends and family. Today, though, I only play games on my Quest 2 and Valve Index. I don't even own a console anymore. Admittedly, this is partially due to console availability issues, but now that I've been using my VR systems for almost a year, I find I'm not really motivated to buy a console. Maybe this is just a case of "settling" because neither the Playstation or Xbox systems are readily available. I'm not sure. Perhaps I'll feel differently when I can actually go to the store and impulse-buy a console, but for now, I'm content with VR.
- throwanem 5y ago
  Most gamers who try VR will do that, sure. They do like their comfort zone. Most people, though? That's a different question. Who ever said VR was, or even should be, for people who identify as "gamers"? It's a wholly different interaction style, and there's no obvious reason why anyone should expect "gamer" games already highly optimized for their existing platforms to fit it. Aiming a gun precisely in VR is a pain in the ass, but you just can't do anything that feels like Beat Saber anywhere else. Too, the "gamer"-identified market is both deeply saturated and extremely whiny, typically demanding an endless stream of trivial iterations on existing franchises while broadly spurning on this ground alone anything that dares to attempt novelty. EA and Ubisoft are exactly what the "gamer"-identifying market deserves, and also the world leaders in being EA and Ubisoft. Try to disrupt that and you just rehash Windows phones vs. Apple and Android. And, in both cases, why should this be something you want? Look at the Wii, which had no more use for "gamers" than they had for it, and profited handsomely by that disdain. If I were trying to get a VR studio off the ground, that's the kind of lightning I'd be chasing - try to win by doing something new, and happily leave the "gamer"-identifying niche to the more-of-the-same it so loudly insists upon.
endisneigh 5y ago
Measuring Oculus sales through mobile app downloads, lol... I have 2 Oculuses and have the app downloaded on 5 devices at least. Anyway, I feel like the popularity of Oculus is pretty limited. Unlike consoles, you have to be pretty physically active to play most games on it. I do think it's an excellent fitness device, though. I think Google made a huge mistake discontinuing Cardboard/Daydream. They should bring it back. It really doesn't make that much sense to have another device when phones already are more or less as powerful as an Oculus anyway. Not to mention that the Quest runs on Android to begin with.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  If you wanted to know how many oculuses that were sold wouldn't you just ask your retailers how many oculeses they sold? I mean measuring downloads would give you ame order of magnitude measure of sales but not a very accurate number.
- paisawalla 5y ago
  Can you say more about the physical activity aspect of an Oculus? For the benefit of the non-VR people
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    The short summary is that both your head via the headset and your hands via the controllers are tracked. The result is that to dodge items in the game you must make the corresponding movements like ducking, tilting, bending, etc in reality. Many games like super hot and pistol whip take advantage of this. The result is that playing oculus games is much like exercising. Other games like audio trip and synth riders explicitly make it exercise focused. I own most of the oculus games and I’d say audio trip on cardio mode is probably one of the most physically demanding. Unfortunately it’s not super popular so there aren’t a lot of songs.
  - romanhn 5y ago
    You can see some of the fitness ratings for VR games here: https://vrhealth.institute/vr-ratings https://vrhealth.institute/vr-ratings. From personal experience, the boxing game Thrill of the Fight was a brutal workout - after ten minutes, I was sweating and panting. I saw the same from fairly fit individuals as well. Also big fan of Pistol Whip for fun lower body workouts (lots of squats while evading bullets).
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arnaudsm 5y ago
I love VR, but it's far from having as much content as their console counterparts. Indie developers, it's time to shine in this new eldorado.
sriram_sun 5y ago
Is this like comparing downloads for "growth" apps against apps that everyone else has already installed on their phone?
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
croes 5y ago
So if I bought a Quest, tested it and sold it, it get counted as two sold Quests. If I have to try multiple smartphone to pair Quest each device counts as a Quest.
- amelius 5y ago
  I bought a Quest and returned it to make a statement. Are they counting my vote the wrong way?
starklevnertz 5y ago
I flagged this post. Not credible enough for HN front page. Really ridiculous. Surely no one can believe Vr headsets out sold Xbox consoles? Who here honestly actually believes the concept that VR headsets are outselling xboxes? No one. Where’s the actual proof? And even if it’s true it’s just because of the chip shortage which makes it meaningless. Fake news.
didibus 5y ago
That's pretty awesome, VR needs better content, and if it was a chicken and egg scenario, this might be it. I haven't touched my Oculus headset in a few years because the content is so stale, but hopefully we start seeing more interesting games.
mihaic 5y ago
There was a period in the last decade when most high-end TVs had 3D functionality. It required extra glasses, but it just felt so cool. I had a couple guests over a couple fun evenings, but just like other cool feeling pieces of tech - like my Xbox Kinect - the glasses are in a box somewhere. This feels again exact like that: cool at first sight, but the novelty wears off quickly and I realize I don't want more imersion or more escapism. I just want better quality media on simple devices.
- AltF4me 5y ago
  You haven't tried VR yet have you? When you do, you'll see this is very different to 3D of the past.
  - fy20 5y ago
    I tried a wired Oculus (I think?) setup at a friend's house a few years ago for an evening, and it was fun but yes I could see the novelty wearing off quickly. Especially given the setup at the time would have been well over $1000 (once you consider upgrading to a powerful enough PC). I considering getting a Quest 2 this year, as the price is a lot lower that what my friends setup would have cost, but after looking at a few "Top VR games" videos on YouTube I decided it wasn't for me. The videos were full of FPS and fighting games, which I can understand in VR would be a completely different experience and fun if you enjoy that, but that really isn't my thing. If more casual games come out then I could see it becoming more mainstream, but right now it does seem a bit of a fad.
    - Xevi 5y ago
      I can't play fast-paced FPS games either due to RSI, but luckily there are plenty of more casual games as well. I recently bought Demeo (table top game) to play with my brother, and it was pretty fun. :)
    - jdhzzz 5y ago
      I've had the Quest 2 for only about a month, but still don't own an FPS. I was impressed with the amount of non FPS games such as boxing, mini-golf, and table tennis. Aside: The relatively low friction involved in starting game play has me playing this far more than I ever did with my rarely used X-box One. It remains to be seen whether this lasts beyond winter here in the northeast US.
yellowfish22 5y ago
It's pretty amazing, I had non-tech heavy relatives show them off when visiting today. it reminds a little of the gameboy in the 90s, some of the comments here are dismissive to the point of being absurd
fogihujy 5y ago
Why would anyone buy a new Xbox? Most people I know still have regular HD TV's, and six year-old Xbox one or PS4 will do just fine for most of their needs. There are very few games that won't work -- or have performance issues -- with the previous generation. Most are just the regular FIFA/NHL/Madden stuff, with the occasional overhyped mishap like CP2077. It's the same situation as with the Xbox 360 -- as long as the previous generations can play the currently popular games, people won't upgrade. Hell, in the Microsoft Store, it's still remakes of 360-era games like GTA V and Skyrim that are being used to advertise the new consoles. No thanks my 360 still works fine! :D The supply chain issues are only making it worse.
- IkmoIkmo 5y ago
  Agreed, in a lot of cases it makes little sense to upgrade. That's true just about always when you don't have a 4k TV. When you do have a 4k TV and it's large enough, a PS5 can look a lot better. Especially versus the regular PS4 (rather than the PS4 Pro). But historically the Playstations are known for upgrades every 6-7 years (from 1994 to 2000, to 2006, to 2013, to 2020), and then a support of about 3-4 years after, for a 10-year lifecycle. The PS5 has been out for a year, making a PS5 exclusive at this time that's totally specialised for the hardware makes little sense. There's 14 million PS5s out there, and 115 million PS4s. But the big games are in the pipeline that utilise the PS5 hardware specifically, and after a while these new games won't run on 4 anymore, or will, but will look a lot better on the 5 or be very slow on the 4. Paying scalper prices makes no sense at the moment, but the PS5 will eventually take over the 4. If you can get one at retail prices, I'd rather have one sooner than later, if you're switching some day anyway. The loading-time improvements are quite nice.
  - fogihujy 5y ago
    Oh, I'm sure we'll get there at some point, but until we get new games instead of remakes, there's little reason for it. The thing with the supply chain issues is that they keep many gamers on XB1/PS4. Until the target audience grows, we're stuck in circle with FIFA N+1 and the game of the year 2011 ported to yet another platform.
senectus1 5y ago
their "app store" is quite possibly the worst most frustrating experience I've ever had. SOME apps you can buy as gifts, others you can't and there seems to be little rhyme or reason to it. the search engine is completely useless not showing anything anywhere near what you are looking for. The interface requires a shit ton of scrolling before anything useful shows up on the screen... It made me want to send the two i bought for my kids back.
2-718-281-828 5y ago
And I would also like to buy one. But as far as I understood a Facebook account which I refuse to create is required for that. I found conflicting information on that - would someone maybe care to competently clarify on that? Do you need a Facebook account or not to use an OQ2? As a matter of fact I still have an Oculus account from Go days and I just checked - it's still active apparently. Got the following disclaimer after logging in: ################################################################ Enhance Your VR Experience With a Facebook Account To access social features, you need to log in with a Facebook account by going to Facebook Settings in the Oculus app. What Happens if You Don’t Log In With a Facebook Account You can use your Oculus account until January 1, 2023, but you will not have access to social features with your Oculus account. Starting January 1, 2023, we will end formal support for Oculus accounts, and you will need to log in with a Facebook account to access full functionality on the Oculus platform. ################################################################ Still have very very fond memories of the Go. Virtual virtual reality and Wander f.x. were amazing experiences. But I sold the device in anticipation of a newer model and having been can't waiting now for it since several years ago. So that's due.
- IkmoIkmo 5y ago
  On the whole FB account, does it require you to actually do anything with it? Can it literally just be an e-mail and random password, which only logs into the Oculus. If so, what's the problem?
  - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
    You tell me if that is even true ... I haven't had an FB account in many years. From what I read (mostly here on HN) is that you may be able to create an FB account with an e-mail address. But after a while you'll be pushed / forced into providing a mobile phone number, a profile picture and some people (here) even write about having to provide an ID. Also you have stay actually active on it or you risk it being closed suddenly. That's what I learned. I don't know if that is true. And if the games you bought are attached to that account they will be gone.
- chaostheory 5y ago
atdrummond 5y ago
I doubt this. My understanding is Oculus sold about 10m in 2021; Microsoft will have sold north of 10m XBox Series X this year alone. With previous gen models still on sale and many stores only moving Series S at present due to supply chain constraints, I expect this number is a few million more total XBoxen sold beyond the 10m+ Series X this year. Add to that over 20m Nintendo Switch and 20m various PlayStation models (plus all the popular (S)NES, PSone, Genesis, etc mini consoles) and consoles are selling well over 50m consoles a year. The home console market hasn’t been this diverse and healthy in a while.
laumars 5y ago
The Xbox has been hard to buy for plus Microsoft have been pushing PC gaming again lately. Thus I know of a few Xbox fans that have decided to shift back to PC gaming as a result. Compare that to the Switch which is selling significantly more than the Oculus, has the worst support for “VR” out of any of the listed, and is the lowest end hardware (bar the Oculus) too and the real conclusion one can make is that graph is that casual gaming is still a massively lucrative industry.
drumhead 5y ago
Really? It would be nice if VR was gaining that much traction, but you dont get that general impression. I wonder how close we are to a major price reduction in the hardware that would help demand no end, but also VR versions of some big or iconic titles like GTA V or Skyrim.
footlose_3815 5y ago
[dead]
mike503 5y ago
I think enough people have Xboxes (one/X/whatever) at this point, an entire secondhand untracked market, and Oculus is still fresh enough, that this feels like a silly headline to even discuss. Team it up with supply chain and availability issues. I got an Oculus this year. I have multiple Xboxes already and zero need to upgrade to another iteration of them right now.
RandomPlayer717 5y ago
cyanydeez 5y ago
the metaverse is not a thing

122 points by binarynate 5y ago

anothernewdude 5y ago

How are people going to buy Oculus when they can't get the cards to support it?

manojlds 5y ago
It's (Quest 2) a standalone VR headset first and foremost.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
What "cards"?
sb057 5y ago
Plenty of people are getting graphics cards, it's just that demand is massively outstripping supply.
arnaudsm 5y ago
The GPU shortage was my deciding factor for buying a Quest2. Simple games like Beat Saber are indistinguable from PC, it's a marvel of optimization. My GTX1060 stuttered more than the Quest mobile chip.
mlajtos 5y ago
Oculus Quest 1 and 2 are standalone VR headsets, which means that the single device is everything you need to play games. You don't need PC, but if you have it you can also use headset to play PCVR games through Steam – with wire or wireless if you have capable wifi. Even though XR2 chipset in Quest 2 is weak in comparison to beefy PC with NVIDIA RTX 3090, the games are optimized for it and runs smoothly at 90/120Hz. A lot of games are made in low-poly style exactly because of poor hardware, but some games can pull off some pretty decent looking graphics (Eleven, Climb 2, Robo Recall, etc.). I expect that graphics will get much better (HL Alyx better) on standalone VR headsets with Apple's take on this segment.

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nick0garvey 5y ago

The implication here is the demand for Oculus is higher than for Xboxes. But Xbox has been extremely difficult to buy this past year, where an Oculus is readily available. Still an interesting data point, but misleading on its own.

dado3212 5y ago
This years sales have beaten the last 5 years of Xbox sales, so not sure how convincing supply chain issues are.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  The Xbox One was also a distant also-ran to the PS4.
- puchatek 5y ago
  I'm that case the title could also be made more accurate
- Matthias247 5y ago
  I tried buying a series X for 4 month with no luck. Everything which shows up online is sold out within seconds. So yes - the supply chain issues are very real.
wyldfire 5y ago
Maybe the demand for new gaming experiences is being satisfied by Oculus due to lower costs and better availability. Maybe it's not misleading at all if Meta starts to eat the share of dollars/hours. Only time will tell if people will continue to use them beyond their initial novelty.
- innocentoldguy 5y ago
  I agree with you and it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Personally, I purchased an Oculus Quest 2 and a Valve Index about nine months ago because I couldn't find a Playstation or Xbox system in stock. I wasn't expecting much from either system (especially the Quest 2, since it is basically a cell phone with goggles and a couple of hand controllers) but they've both grown on me. I love the Quest's portability and the Index's screen resolution and adjustability are excellent. Meta's customer support for warranty issues has also been excellent (much, much, MUCH nicer than Sony's). I've also found a lot of games I like, such as: - Death: Unchained - Alyx - The Room VR - Obduction - Myst VR I've enjoyed both VR systems to the point that I haven't bothered to check the availability of Sony's or Microsoft's offerings recently. I'm enjoying what I have. I don't know why Sony and Microsoft never seem to be able to predict the market and create enough products to meet demand, but they always seem to struggle with this (I know there's a global chip shortage at the moment, but Sony especially has had this problem for years). Now that decent enough competitors exist, Sony and Microsoft might find their marketshare eroding due to their inability to satisfy market demands.

cagr 5y ago

Chris Dixon is dishonestly pumping Web3 as if it exists today. He has a huge financial incentive to do so because of A16Z putting $2B into a crypto mandated fund. Mark my words, retail investors and speculators with everything to lose will get sucked into buying the tokens people like him promote and be left with nothing of utility. "Web3" as it is being proposed now is essentially an unregistered securities offering. The SEC is asleep at the wheel and A16Z is taking full advantage of it, as is their capitalistic right. This is the 2017 ICO craze rebranded.

izend 5y ago
The Fed / SEC is accepting it because it attracts liquidity and prevents it from pouring into public stock markets.
- deleted 5y ago
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brian-armstrong 5y ago

It's amusing to talk to Quest owners in VRChat. They talk about as a mark of shame, and inevitably want to upgrade to a "real" headset. If nothing else I suspect the Quest drives a number of regret purchases into the Index, so it does have some marginal utility!

puchatek 5y ago
You mean the original quest model, as opposed to the quest 2 i assume?
- brian-armstrong 5y ago
  Both. The Quest is practically a second-class citizen in VRChat. It can't run many models or worlds unless it's PC linked and running on desktop hardware.
  - hsod 5y ago
    To be clear, the people who can run these models and worlds are also tethered to a PC. So the quest isn’t any worse than the competition. The complaint here seems to be that it isn’t better enough to justify… well something I’m sure
  - jayd16 5y ago
    So its more about stand alone vs PC? The Quest display and tracking is pretty great.
    - brian-armstrong 5y ago
      Yeah, but the PC is quite a large fraction of the cost of going from nothing to full Index system. If you don't already have a good gaming PC then the Quest alone can't help you, and once you have one you might as well get a system that can also easily do full body tracking.
- numpad0 5y ago
  Quest as a platform is nonexistent in “gamer” PoV. It’s just the cheapest and most robust _SteamVR_ headset.

georgemcbay 5y ago

This is 100% anecdotal and I'm sure other people have different experiences and ultimately it may not be directly relevant to the fact being pointed out in this linked tweet, but... As a gamer with a lot of gamer friends (split among PC & console, though more console than PC, I play on both) I know quite a few people (close to 10) who bought both VR headsets (some Oculus, some not) and Xbox Series Xs over the past year and a half. Every single person I know including myself used the VR headset a lot for about 2 weeks and then barely touched it except for occasionally pulling it out to show friends/family. Meanwhile we all play games on the Xbox nearly nightly. I love a good VR game but it just feels like though the headset hardware is pretty close to "there" that its still really difficult to deliver good experiences in a flexible way due to input/tactile feedback (or lack thereof) concerns. So most people that try out VR will play a lot of beat saber, tool around with a shooter like Arizona Sunshine, and then go back to playing traditional non-VR games.

innocentoldguy 5y ago
This is exactly what I did with my Playstation VR a few years ago. I played it for a couple of weeks and then only turned it on to show friends and family. Today, though, I only play games on my Quest 2 and Valve Index. I don't even own a console anymore. Admittedly, this is partially due to console availability issues, but now that I've been using my VR systems for almost a year, I find I'm not really motivated to buy a console. Maybe this is just a case of "settling" because neither the Playstation or Xbox systems are readily available. I'm not sure. Perhaps I'll feel differently when I can actually go to the store and impulse-buy a console, but for now, I'm content with VR.
throwanem 5y ago
Most gamers who try VR will do that, sure. They do like their comfort zone. Most people, though? That's a different question. Who ever said VR was, or even should be, for people who identify as "gamers"? It's a wholly different interaction style, and there's no obvious reason why anyone should expect "gamer" games already highly optimized for their existing platforms to fit it. Aiming a gun precisely in VR is a pain in the ass, but you just can't do anything that feels like Beat Saber anywhere else. Too, the "gamer"-identified market is both deeply saturated and extremely whiny, typically demanding an endless stream of trivial iterations on existing franchises while broadly spurning on this ground alone anything that dares to attempt novelty. EA and Ubisoft are exactly what the "gamer"-identifying market deserves, and also the world leaders in being EA and Ubisoft. Try to disrupt that and you just rehash Windows phones vs. Apple and Android. And, in both cases, why should this be something you want? Look at the Wii, which had no more use for "gamers" than they had for it, and profited handsomely by that disdain. If I were trying to get a VR studio off the ground, that's the kind of lightning I'd be chasing - try to win by doing something new, and happily leave the "gamer"-identifying niche to the more-of-the-same it so loudly insists upon.

endisneigh 5y ago

Measuring Oculus sales through mobile app downloads, lol... I have 2 Oculuses and have the app downloaded on 5 devices at least. Anyway, I feel like the popularity of Oculus is pretty limited. Unlike consoles, you have to be pretty physically active to play most games on it. I do think it's an excellent fitness device, though. I think Google made a huge mistake discontinuing Cardboard/Daydream. They should bring it back. It really doesn't make that much sense to have another device when phones already are more or less as powerful as an Oculus anyway. Not to mention that the Quest runs on Android to begin with.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
If you wanted to know how many oculuses that were sold wouldn't you just ask your retailers how many oculeses they sold? I mean measuring downloads would give you ame order of magnitude measure of sales but not a very accurate number.
paisawalla 5y ago
Can you say more about the physical activity aspect of an Oculus? For the benefit of the non-VR people
- endisneigh 5y ago
  The short summary is that both your head via the headset and your hands via the controllers are tracked. The result is that to dodge items in the game you must make the corresponding movements like ducking, tilting, bending, etc in reality. Many games like super hot and pistol whip take advantage of this. The result is that playing oculus games is much like exercising. Other games like audio trip and synth riders explicitly make it exercise focused. I own most of the oculus games and I’d say audio trip on cardio mode is probably one of the most physically demanding. Unfortunately it’s not super popular so there aren’t a lot of songs.
- romanhn 5y ago
  You can see some of the fitness ratings for VR games here: https://vrhealth.institute/vr-ratings https://vrhealth.institute/vr-ratings. From personal experience, the boxing game Thrill of the Fight was a brutal workout - after ten minutes, I was sweating and panting. I saw the same from fairly fit individuals as well. Also big fan of Pistol Whip for fun lower body workouts (lots of squats while evading bullets).

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arnaudsm 5y ago

I love VR, but it's far from having as much content as their console counterparts. Indie developers, it's time to shine in this new eldorado.

sriram_sun 5y ago

Is this like comparing downloads for "growth" apps against apps that everyone else has already installed on their phone?

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

croes 5y ago

So if I bought a Quest, tested it and sold it, it get counted as two sold Quests. If I have to try multiple smartphone to pair Quest each device counts as a Quest.

amelius 5y ago
I bought a Quest and returned it to make a statement. Are they counting my vote the wrong way?

starklevnertz 5y ago

I flagged this post. Not credible enough for HN front page. Really ridiculous. Surely no one can believe Vr headsets out sold Xbox consoles? Who here honestly actually believes the concept that VR headsets are outselling xboxes? No one. Where’s the actual proof? And even if it’s true it’s just because of the chip shortage which makes it meaningless. Fake news.

didibus 5y ago

That's pretty awesome, VR needs better content, and if it was a chicken and egg scenario, this might be it. I haven't touched my Oculus headset in a few years because the content is so stale, but hopefully we start seeing more interesting games.

mihaic 5y ago

There was a period in the last decade when most high-end TVs had 3D functionality. It required extra glasses, but it just felt so cool. I had a couple guests over a couple fun evenings, but just like other cool feeling pieces of tech - like my Xbox Kinect - the glasses are in a box somewhere. This feels again exact like that: cool at first sight, but the novelty wears off quickly and I realize I don't want more imersion or more escapism. I just want better quality media on simple devices.

AltF4me 5y ago
You haven't tried VR yet have you? When you do, you'll see this is very different to 3D of the past.
- fy20 5y ago
  I tried a wired Oculus (I think?) setup at a friend's house a few years ago for an evening, and it was fun but yes I could see the novelty wearing off quickly. Especially given the setup at the time would have been well over $1000 (once you consider upgrading to a powerful enough PC). I considering getting a Quest 2 this year, as the price is a lot lower that what my friends setup would have cost, but after looking at a few "Top VR games" videos on YouTube I decided it wasn't for me. The videos were full of FPS and fighting games, which I can understand in VR would be a completely different experience and fun if you enjoy that, but that really isn't my thing. If more casual games come out then I could see it becoming more mainstream, but right now it does seem a bit of a fad.
  - Xevi 5y ago
    I can't play fast-paced FPS games either due to RSI, but luckily there are plenty of more casual games as well. I recently bought Demeo (table top game) to play with my brother, and it was pretty fun. :)
  - jdhzzz 5y ago
    I've had the Quest 2 for only about a month, but still don't own an FPS. I was impressed with the amount of non FPS games such as boxing, mini-golf, and table tennis. Aside: The relatively low friction involved in starting game play has me playing this far more than I ever did with my rarely used X-box One. It remains to be seen whether this lasts beyond winter here in the northeast US.

yellowfish22 5y ago

It's pretty amazing, I had non-tech heavy relatives show them off when visiting today. it reminds a little of the gameboy in the 90s, some of the comments here are dismissive to the point of being absurd

fogihujy 5y ago

Why would anyone buy a new Xbox? Most people I know still have regular HD TV's, and six year-old Xbox one or PS4 will do just fine for most of their needs. There are very few games that won't work -- or have performance issues -- with the previous generation. Most are just the regular FIFA/NHL/Madden stuff, with the occasional overhyped mishap like CP2077. It's the same situation as with the Xbox 360 -- as long as the previous generations can play the currently popular games, people won't upgrade. Hell, in the Microsoft Store, it's still remakes of 360-era games like GTA V and Skyrim that are being used to advertise the new consoles. No thanks my 360 still works fine! :D The supply chain issues are only making it worse.

IkmoIkmo 5y ago
Agreed, in a lot of cases it makes little sense to upgrade. That's true just about always when you don't have a 4k TV. When you do have a 4k TV and it's large enough, a PS5 can look a lot better. Especially versus the regular PS4 (rather than the PS4 Pro). But historically the Playstations are known for upgrades every 6-7 years (from 1994 to 2000, to 2006, to 2013, to 2020), and then a support of about 3-4 years after, for a 10-year lifecycle. The PS5 has been out for a year, making a PS5 exclusive at this time that's totally specialised for the hardware makes little sense. There's 14 million PS5s out there, and 115 million PS4s. But the big games are in the pipeline that utilise the PS5 hardware specifically, and after a while these new games won't run on 4 anymore, or will, but will look a lot better on the 5 or be very slow on the 4. Paying scalper prices makes no sense at the moment, but the PS5 will eventually take over the 4. If you can get one at retail prices, I'd rather have one sooner than later, if you're switching some day anyway. The loading-time improvements are quite nice.
- fogihujy 5y ago
  Oh, I'm sure we'll get there at some point, but until we get new games instead of remakes, there's little reason for it. The thing with the supply chain issues is that they keep many gamers on XB1/PS4. Until the target audience grows, we're stuck in circle with FIFA N+1 and the game of the year 2011 ported to yet another platform.

senectus1 5y ago

their "app store" is quite possibly the worst most frustrating experience I've ever had. SOME apps you can buy as gifts, others you can't and there seems to be little rhyme or reason to it. the search engine is completely useless not showing anything anywhere near what you are looking for. The interface requires a shit ton of scrolling before anything useful shows up on the screen... It made me want to send the two i bought for my kids back.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

And I would also like to buy one. But as far as I understood a Facebook account which I refuse to create is required for that. I found conflicting information on that - would someone maybe care to competently clarify on that? Do you need a Facebook account or not to use an OQ2? As a matter of fact I still have an Oculus account from Go days and I just checked - it's still active apparently. Got the following disclaimer after logging in: ################################################################ Enhance Your VR Experience With a Facebook Account To access social features, you need to log in with a Facebook account by going to Facebook Settings in the Oculus app. What Happens if You Don’t Log In With a Facebook Account You can use your Oculus account until January 1, 2023, but you will not have access to social features with your Oculus account. Starting January 1, 2023, we will end formal support for Oculus accounts, and you will need to log in with a Facebook account to access full functionality on the Oculus platform. ################################################################ Still have very very fond memories of the Go. Virtual virtual reality and Wander f.x. were amazing experiences. But I sold the device in anticipation of a newer model and having been can't waiting now for it since several years ago. So that's due.

IkmoIkmo 5y ago
On the whole FB account, does it require you to actually do anything with it? Can it literally just be an e-mail and random password, which only logs into the Oculus. If so, what's the problem?
- 2-718-281-828 5y ago
  You tell me if that is even true ... I haven't had an FB account in many years. From what I read (mostly here on HN) is that you may be able to create an FB account with an e-mail address. But after a while you'll be pushed / forced into providing a mobile phone number, a profile picture and some people (here) even write about having to provide an ID. Also you have stay actually active on it or you risk it being closed suddenly. That's what I learned. I don't know if that is true. And if the games you bought are attached to that account they will be gone.
chaostheory 5y ago

atdrummond 5y ago

I doubt this. My understanding is Oculus sold about 10m in 2021; Microsoft will have sold north of 10m XBox Series X this year alone. With previous gen models still on sale and many stores only moving Series S at present due to supply chain constraints, I expect this number is a few million more total XBoxen sold beyond the 10m+ Series X this year. Add to that over 20m Nintendo Switch and 20m various PlayStation models (plus all the popular (S)NES, PSone, Genesis, etc mini consoles) and consoles are selling well over 50m consoles a year. The home console market hasn’t been this diverse and healthy in a while.

laumars 5y ago

The Xbox has been hard to buy for plus Microsoft have been pushing PC gaming again lately. Thus I know of a few Xbox fans that have decided to shift back to PC gaming as a result. Compare that to the Switch which is selling significantly more than the Oculus, has the worst support for “VR” out of any of the listed, and is the lowest end hardware (bar the Oculus) too and the real conclusion one can make is that graph is that casual gaming is still a massively lucrative industry.

drumhead 5y ago

Really? It would be nice if VR was gaining that much traction, but you dont get that general impression. I wonder how close we are to a major price reduction in the hardware that would help demand no end, but also VR versions of some big or iconic titles like GTA V or Skyrim.

footlose_3815 5y ago

[dead]

mike503 5y ago

I think enough people have Xboxes (one/X/whatever) at this point, an entire secondhand untracked market, and Oculus is still fresh enough, that this feels like a silly headline to even discuss. Team it up with supply chain and availability issues. I got an Oculus this year. I have multiple Xboxes already and zero need to upgrade to another iteration of them right now.

RandomPlayer717 5y ago

cyanydeez 5y ago

the metaverse is not a thing