19 ms·

DIY Off-Grid Solar Power

311 points by wglb 5y ago

ctime 5y ago
Will Prose seems like a really great person. If you’re interested in what you see on this site, check out his YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/c/WillProwse https://youtube.com/c/WillProwse
- Syonyk 5y ago
  The problem with him, and people like him on YouTube, is that about 90% of what they say is fine, and 10% ranges from "iffy" to "This is a good way to burn your house down - at some unknown point in the future." The average viewer of that sort of material can't tell the difference, and by the time you can, you're not in need of handwaving entry level information, because you can read the design documents, spec sheets, NEC, and do things yourself. YouTube is simply the wrong medium to try to teach detailed, "can kill you" things like electricity. It's especially wrong when you try to make it about personality, humor, etc moreso than hard technical truths.
  - kyleee 5y ago
    "YouTube is simply the wrong medium to try to teach detailed" YouTube is literally just humans talking, so you are basically saying you don't think humans can teach complicated subjects?
    - Syonyk 5y ago
      That's an absolutely absurd characterization of both YouTube and actual teaching. YouTube is dominantly entertainment/personality based "edutainment" at best, based on what seems to percolate to the top and be promoted. There's zero feedback outside comments (standard warnings about comment sections apply here). The right way to teach complex subjects is a more interactive process with hands on material/learning/actually solving the problems yourself. In the case of solar and energy systems, you can do this, but if you don't have some basic EE background, it would be wise to go get that first before listening to some slick talking huckster selling their wares. WHY do we size wires the way we do (either for temperature limits or for voltage drop, depending on the application)? What's wrong with a 5000W 12V inverter (500A or so, and the I^2 components of resistive losses, paired with the voltage drop from those)? I don't think a human lecturing blindly into the void optimizing for "engagement" (whatever metrics those are based on this week) can competently teach any real detailed material, no. That doesn't mean that people can't teach complex material. It just means YouTube is not the place or medium for it.
      - barbecue_sauce 5y ago
        A lot of educational content on YouTube is made by people who have no idea (or interest in) how to optimize for engagement. I'd be willing to bet there is fairly competent basic EE instruction on YouTube that includes lab instructions, working with simulations, problems, and pulling in other exogenous resources to aid in understanding. Its not just a wasteland of pop science like Veritasium, et al.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        This is true, but there are definitely positive exceptions to this rule.
    - woleium 5y ago
      YouTube encourages generating content that rates well, i.e. is entertaining. I agree that learning should be fun, but I don't want to learn about life threating topics from videos that are designed foremost to be entertaining.
      - barbecue_sauce 5y ago
        There is plenty of non-entertaining yet informative and detailed educational content on YouTube. The "entertaining" videos are usually just a gateway to more dry and traditional lectures and courses that are provided by universities and other content generators that see YouTube as a general resource and not an income stream.
    - jrootabega 5y ago
      "YouTube" can mean at least two things: 1. A theoretical space for someone with good ideas and good intentions to share those with the world. 2. The actual experience that viewers will have on YouTube if they were to open it today. 1. and 2. would be almost diametrically opposed these days. If YouTube provided ways for viewers to honestly and fairly discover, rate, filter, and share videos and channels, then the people in case 2 would be able to reliably find the people in case 1. And if YouTube didn't force video makers to pervert their personality and format into algorithm-pleasing parodies, then people in case 1. could continue to produce the content they actually want to produce as long as they were able to. But it's not possible today.
  - post_break 5y ago
    This is the dumbest take I've read in a long time. From him I've learned which lifepo4 batteries won't burn my house down, proper wiring for stuff, etc. I've got a 144ah battery pack sitting right next to me as I type this I built from learning from him. Are you sure your comment isn't about the youtuber Electricboom?
    - Syonyk 5y ago
      I rebuilt large (500Wh) lithium ebike batteries professionally and shipped them around North America for a couple years, and have torn down more than my fair share of ebike and tool batteries for analysis. I've yet to see a "YouTube Trained" pack build that I would be remotely comfortable leaving unattended in my house. Though LFP is an awful lot more forgiving than a mix of random recycled 18650s of unknown chemistry, service life, and internal damage history that makes up the bulk of that stuff. If you've got some good high res shots of the build process, I'd happily take a look and see what I think of it. My standards of comparison are the professionally built packs I've torn down for analysis and often enough rebuilt for people. As for who my comment is about, honestly, I apply it generally to that entire class of person on YouTube no matter who they are. I know solar, and off grid solar, fairly well (with a focus on flooded lead acid). I know lithium fairly well, having done quite extensive work on them. In areas I know well, most of the people showing stuff off or trying to teach other people hit the 90/10 split, and as this is a topic of conversation in the quiet off grid backwaters circles I frequent, other people usually agree about which 10% is the problem. Therefore I'm happy to ignore that entire class of person and go do something useful. It's not that education can't be funny, it's that when "personality" and "laughs" and "BIG O FACE I NEARLY BLEW MYSELF UP" style thumbnails are what matters, the really deep (and often quite important) technical details get lost in all that.
      - belval 5y ago
        I was giving you the benefit of doubt, but this comment shows that you've never watched any of Will's video and you are just painting with a very broad brush. He's the kind of Youtuber that keeps repeating that you should place a low temp sensor on your cells, not the kind doing sketchy spot weld on old 18650s.
  - nataz 5y ago
    "It's especially wrong when you try to make it about personality, humor, etc moreso than hard technical truths." Have you spent any time watching Will's videos? Your quote doesn't match up at all with what I've seen at all. I found his videos dry, technical, and pretty good with regard to safety.
  - DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
    sounds a bit gate-keepy to me. People tell me that I shouldn't repair my own car for similar reasons. Instead I should go to the OEM and have it serviced there for 1000,- a pop. This assures I'm getting genuine OEM branded parts with a 800% profit margin while also reducing the time spent on diagnosing the issue because now whole modules get replaced since cost of human labor is expensive. If I would heed that advise, I'd still have no clue about how a modern diesel engine worked, how to reverse and flash a new ECU firmware, how to find and fix any problem without a mechanic ripping me off, or generally engage in things that (in the eyes of the vendor) are "very dangerous" to myself, my family, or others. Yet I still make this choice because the alternative is a "John Deer no right to repair" future where we're ruled by chuckeducks and awful people who can't help but quote "rules and regulations" or can't wait to be up in everyone's shit. There is no way I could be convinced otherwise because this is the nature of those who fiddle and tinker in the first place. I'm sure many of the viewers on this channel think likewise because it's not about safety but about my own freedom to spend my weekends in the garage building something and being rewarded with self reliance. And also the freedom to make mistakes big enough to kill myself by accident without somebody going "uhm well ack-shually".
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      He has a point, but there is a thing you can do to offset some of this: read all of the comments. Plenty of times there will be someone in the comments pointing out what's wrong in the videos. The problem with Lithium Ion installations of any size is that the batteries are inherently dangerous and mistakes can easily set you back more than you saved on the whole thing. Unlike say your car where as long as you stay away from suspension, brakes and steering the worst that could happen is that you end up stranded by the road side. Another issue is that when it goes wrong with Lithium Ion it can go wrong fast and it isn't easy, or sometimes even possible, to stop a thermal runaway once it gets going, especially with densely packed cells, besides the fact that you likely won't be watching your batteries 24x7. There are some people on youtube that advocate for extremely unsafe practices (Jehu Garcia, for instance) and that have a huge following, so Will Prowse is certainly not the worst that you could run into there. It would also be good if he indicated more clearly what his sponsorship relations are and how that relates to the advice that he is giving, quite a few of his videos feel like thinly disguised ads.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I have seen enough of his videos to know that he can be spectacularly wrong (dangerously so) about some of his stuff and if you are not already very knowledgeable about this then you may well end up following some very bad advice. This guy has far more practical experience and seems to be less error prone, and also does not shy away from showing when he gets it wrong, which is often far more valuable than a polished and edited video: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0pBauLp63yzf6sVdEOIUbA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0pBauLp63yzf6sVdEOIUbA If you want to learn about DIY off grid power from youtube I'd start here.
  - knorker 5y ago
    Interesting. Can you give examples about when he's been dangerously wrong?
    - AYBABTME 5y ago
      I can't recall particular instances but I've seen the same before. FWIW he's getting less stuff wrong over time.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        > FWIW he's getting less stuff wrong over time. That's hopeful, with that kind of following he has some serious responsibility. At the same time, I cringe when I see people working with large packs on workbenches with loose metal laying around, totally irresponsible pack geometries where balance wires cross and recross each other with abandon, recycled cells that have visible external damage and so on. Youtube is a great way to pick up some 'worst practices' thinking that if these youtube stars are doing it it must be ok.
      - willprowseiv 5y ago
        Like what?! Can't any of you people backup your claims. It's just empty complaining on this site without evidence. It's driving me nuts. Show me what I said or have done that was wrong.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > Will Prose seems like a really great person. My opinion of him after his attempts to interact in this thread (turn "show dead" on - a bunch of his more arrogant/abrasive posts have been killed, and it looks like he's posting as Solar2 as well) is now far, far lower than it was.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Ditto. I had him pegged as well meaning but sometimes a bit less knowledgeable than he wanted to come across but that didn't stand the test of interaction.
    - willprowseiv 5y ago
      Where would you get the idea that I am not "well meaning"?!? The majority of my videos are exposing scams and rips offs. I constantly bash companies that do a bad job and back up everything I say with evidence. There are extremely ignorant comments here from people who have no clue what they are talking about. I work with batteries every single day and talk to head engineers that are leading the space, and everything I say can be backed up with recent battery studies. There are numerous comments here suggesting to use cobalt based chemistries that can burn your house down and everyone is fine with that? It's ridiculous. I am mad, and this type of ignorance is why I make my videos. I love criticism, but the comments in this thread are plain ridiculous. I am not familiar with this site and that is my fault, but geez, saying I'm not well meaning?? Why?
  - willprowseiv 5y ago
    Why?? I must admit, I don't use this website, but a close friend does. I am blown away by the ignorance in understanding lithium ion batteries here, and seeing people here try to crtiicize everything I do pisses me off. How would you feel? I cover safety more than any other channel and constantly work to bring the best diy solar videos online, and this is how people respond? I love criticizism, but this is just silly. People here are fighting for lead acid and saying they are superior? And I don't think they are joking either. Also getting a lot of people mentioning to use recycled cobalt based chemistries that can set your house on fire? This site is dangerous. On my forum we have actual electrical engineers who will destroy you with evidence and list relevant literature. On this site, it is emotions based and no one knows what they are talking about. It's wild. I am mad.
mym1990 5y ago
This is super awesome! I do some overlanding/longer roadtrips in backcountry but have yet to gather the courage to install a solar system. Certainly bookmarking this for future reference :D
- Syonyk 5y ago
  If you're going to do solar on an RV, you really should read Handy Bob Solar too [0]. The site formatting sucks, it's very much wall-o-text, and he's absolutely right in everything he says and rants about regarding RV solar. Far too many solar installers just treat a system as the entry to people coming back for more, when the problem is that they don't know enough to adjust it properly for the stuff that was installed in the first place. [0]: https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/ https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/ //EDIT: So, apparently, a site that's been static since 2011 and I've linked quite a lot over the years was updated again in 2020 with some ranting about Covid. You can safely ignore that, and read his older writings on solar installs, because just about everything he says about that is correct, at a "Spend five years hands on with solar and you'll eventually come to agree with him, no matter how loony he sounds about some of it when you start in."
  - pengaru 5y ago
    - kortilla 5y ago
    - Syonyk 5y ago
      Read the rest about solar, I actually just grabbed it from my bookmarks and didn't realize he'd posted anything new since 2011. Ignore the first few posts and carry on reading his rants about solar, batteries, wire gauge, charge controller location, charging voltage, panel placement, shading, etc.
      - 5y ago
unnouinceput 5y ago
Buy this, buy that and oh! don't DIY because my stuff is more awesome and everything. Since when we get ads at top of HN?. I flagged this crap.
- wglb 5y ago
  Not an ad. His YouTube reviews are all about diy and cover many brands of batteries and f at liar systems.
  - unnouinceput 5y ago
zoba 5y ago
I recently set up my own off grid solar system in a tiny cabin that I designed and had built. I used the Solar Controller+Inverter Combos recommended on this site (Growatt) but ultimately switched to ones by Renogy. The Growatt one I purchased has a wifi adapter and app - wifi requirement was a deal breaker when remote. The renogy one has a Bluetooth adapter and app, plus feels better designed (though actually I think the internals are all pretty similar). There are a couple surprise gotchas I didn’t know: 1) These Controller+Inverter combo units require a battery to turn on. This means: if your battery runs completely out of charge, you have to get electricity from somewhere to charge your battery a bit before the Controller+Inverter will turn on and charge your battery again. I was pretty annoyed at how not “off grid” this felt. 2) Temperatures below freezing are bad for batteries. I purchased a Renogy 48v smart battery with self heating. Unfortunately less sun in winter means less energy, and heat production is energy intensive. I’m not at the cabin 100% of the time so I have to take the battery with me when I leave to avoid spoiling/freezing it. Still not sure how I’ll ultimately get around this.
- redtexture 5y ago
  Insulated Root celler equivalent location for the battery.
- jf 5y ago
  Could you dig a hole for your batteries and store them below the frost line?
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    The problem with holes in the ground for storage of things like batteries is that... they're holes in the ground. The ground, as a general guideline, actively dislikes holes in it and strives to fill them in whatever way possible. Liquid rolling in, soil creep, debris blowing past and building up, it doesn't matter - given a long enough time, a hole in the ground won't exist anymore. You can build a hole that will hold up to this sort of stuff for a while, but that tends to be expensive - underground concrete work is neither cheap nor easy, and given the number of people injured in trench collapses who do it for a living, a serious underground hole isn't a good DIY project either. That just leaves the maintenance, which also sucks for a hole in the ground. Anything you have to do on the batteries is easier with them on or above the ground, instead of underground in a hole. For lithium, it's fairly low maintenance but you may have to replace some BMS boards every now and then, manually check balance, etc, and for lead it's water every few months, unless you go with sealed, which are "maintenance free," but also "maintenance and status check impossible," so you really just set them and run them to failure - you can't monitor condition like you can with flooded. It's the sort of solution that, technically, would work - it just ends up being radically more expensive and a hassle than it's remotely worth. Think "Spending $5000 to save $20/yr" sort of thing. You see the same trend with things like the complex solar trackers that were common in the 80s and early 90s. With the cost of panels, optimizing every bit of power from them was critical, so spending an awful lot of money on support infrastructure to optimize $10/W panel production made quite a bit of practical and financial sense. Today, with panels at $0.50/W, very few people bother with trackers anymore (for off grid installs). Most things you could improve with a tracker, you can improve with less effort and less money by just hanging more panels. Bonus: With more panels, you get more production on cloudy days when panel orientation doesn't matter (because the sky is more or less evenly lit). I've got south facing, east facing, and west facing panels on my office, of two different brands, all fed into a single MPPT charge controller input (I do have some blocking diodes to prevent backfeeding a shaded string, though). It's not nearly as "efficient" as some other options, but it's a whole lot cheaper, and gives me more power on the low cloud days that are the rough ones. The rest of the year, I have so much power out there that I'm demand limited, not supply limited (actually, inverter limited - if I added some 48VDC loads, I could use another 5kWh/day easily).
greenie_beans 5y ago
Love this dude, he’s got good youtube videos too
- Solar2 5y ago
  Thank you!
sys_64738 5y ago
Any costing data?
cq493 5y ago
Anyone know if the trailer/flatbed is legal in Los Angeles? Testing without going through an entire permit process would be fun.
m0ngr31 5y ago
I live in an off-grid house. Solar isn't perfect, but it's been pretty good all things considered 6 months in. Converting an airport shuttle bus into an RV now, so I'll have to look this over for that.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Where did you buy the bus from?
  - m0ngr31 5y ago
    Just from some local classifieds.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Cool, I'd love to see the write-up on that if you have the time.
  - m0ngr31 5y ago
    The house or the shuttle bus?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      The bus! That sounds like a very interesting project.
Cannabat 5y ago
The website's author hosts an excellent forum [0] focused on DIY solar power, for anybody who wants to get a bit deeper in to this and has questions or needs help sourcing parts (like LiFePO4 cells and BMSes) from China. I recently built a LiFePO4 battery and upgraded our caravan (trailer) electrical system following these guides and with help from the forum. Couldn't have done it without those resources. [0]: https://diysolarforum.com/ https://diysolarforum.com/
- willprowseiv 5y ago
  And there is zero corporate interest and I pay for it out of pocket. It is free for everyone! We have head engineers of solar equipment companies interacting with people in third world countries. it's really great!
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
As I wrote a few weeks ago, I have been successfully running an on-grid 5Kw solar system that has immensely helped me. The on grid part helps with credit banking during summer and using in winters. For that, I changed my on grid inverter with a "phocos solar inverter" that does the same thing but also, when there is a grid power outage, it still supplies power to home without having batteries. I haven't bought batteries because of the cost but this has been a good experience. My panels are 16*325W and I produce around 30Kwh during the day in summers and during the current winter, I get enough to run appliances, rice cooker and lighting.
thot_experiment 5y ago
NGL I think I have a pretty efficient setup and I'm in the process of installing a 4th panel (bringing my total to 1220W) because 915W isn't really cutting it for winter power now that I'm not spending time outside much. My quiescent draw/day is about 500Wh just doing nothing (fridge + internet) and on a cloudy day I'll make maybe 800Wh with the current setup. I don't think 800W of panels will let you power anything you want during winter. I'm also working on a way to bring power in from my alternator but unfortunately I think I'm going to have to invert in the engine bay and rectify feeding into my MPPT controller to avoid running some absurdly thicc wire to carry a few hundred watts at 12 volts.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  You could get a 12v to 48v DC converter on the car side of things. That already helps a lot in cable thickness.
  - thot_experiment 5y ago
    When I looked into this previously I wasn't able to find a suitably sized boost converter but it seems like there are higher capacity ones cheaply available now. Thanks for the suggestion I may very well end up doing this.
mastax 5y ago
An interesting teardown of one of the Ecoflow Delta plug-and-play inverter-batteries by Matthias Wandel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFj4l3EDa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFj4l3EDa8
wolfi1 5y ago
DIY solar power? I would have imagined a step by step instruction guide for a Grätzel-cell
adabaed 5y ago
This is a spanish guy who built his own off-grid setup with solar panels and 18650 batteries. As a complete ignorant in electric stuff to me this is amazing. If you know some spanish you can find here a good channel IMO! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LgbTsIO3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LgbTsIO3A
- oldsecondhand 5y ago
  Making an electric car with them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQa5gn-7D74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQa5gn-7D74 He also has setups with used laptop batteries.
- willprowseiv 5y ago
  Those cells are very dangerous to use. stick to LiFePO4 or LTO. Cobalt based chemistries can experience and awful thermal runaway when over charged. This can occur if you have a shorted fet in your BMS. Which can happen from inrush current or high voltage.
recursinging 5y ago
For folks interested in a more basic, low level, open source approach to this topic, check out Electrodacus [1]. I built a small system using the SBMS0 in my camper van and have been pretty pleased with the results. If having access to schematics and source code is important to you, have a look. [1] https://electrodacus.com/ https://electrodacus.com/
rklaehn 5y ago
This is a nice resource. I am building an off grid / backup solar install for a house in rural Romania. I want it to be off grid capable, but also be able to use the grid when available. One thing I am curious about: do the all in one systems like Growatt or MPT also provide voltage stabilization? The grid here has really bad voltage stability. Sometimes the voltage drops down to 180V (should be 220V in Europe). Some devices like LED lightbulbs and washing machines don't like this at all. So if these devices provide voltage stabilization, that would be great. I would then buy one and a few batteries, and later add the PV panels. It is going to be about 12kW of roof integrated PV.
- cfn 5y ago
  Offgrid inverters either get the power from the batteries/charge controllers or they get the power from the grid (usually to charge the batteries - they are called charger-inverters, look at the Outback VFX series for an example). This means that either you get the unstable grid power or you get the stable solar/battery power. Maybe there are inverters that somehow compensate and correct the power but I doubt it since they would be fighting the rest of the grid. I would suggest that you add solar with a small battery bank and use the grid for overnight and for dark day charging. This way you have the best of both worlds as you only need a big battery bank if you need a lot of power when there is no sun. P.S. Start with a 48 system since you are going for so much solar power. It is safer and cheaper in the long run.
  - rklaehn 5y ago
    Maybe the all in one system is not good in that case. I was hoping that since they already have the AC-DC inverter built in they could also do voltage stabilization. Maybe charge the batteries from either the grid or the PV panels, and always run the house off the batteries via a separate inverter. That way, you got the inefficiency of AC->DC->AC but always have stable voltage. In the long run I want this to be mostly off grid anyway, with the grid as just an emergency option...
    - cfn 5y ago
      Yes, that is a good idea. Get a separate charger and always run the house from the isolated side. This will be more expensive as a good inverter/charger runs in the 1k-2k Euros area and you would need two (unless you find a suitable battery charger which is not very easy). I lived offgrid for nearly a decade and built myself three different solar systems. I started with a small all in one and found out that they are limiting when you want to expand since you usually cannot add more charge controllers and/or panels (which are the easiest way to expand a system). I ended up giving it away and building the others from separate systems. My biggest mistake was starting with 24 volts instead of 48 volts. It is cheaper but it gets a bit dangerous as you step up the power usage and there aren't many options for breakers and such.
AYBABTME 5y ago
Something awesome about boats and RVs is you can experiment with that stuff without permits and learn a lot.
marcodiego 5y ago
Interesting: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/all-in-one-122448v-packages.html https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/all-in-one-122448v-package... programs are selectable by numbers. Reminds me of the Apollo DSKY computer.
melenaos 5y ago
I want to add some panels at my home to lower the monthly power bill but as I understand I have to direct the energy to something, such as fridge or AC, and when there is not enought energy from the sun either automatically switch to grid or manually. Where can I find such information to build a hybrid energy solution?
- Faaak 5y ago
  All grid-tied solar panels (i.e. what you get when you install solar panels at your home) will do that automatically. Don't don't have to do anything. Solar will be consumed in priority. If there's too much it will be sold and if there's some missing il will be automatically (by the laws of physics) imported from the grid.
mkeespiet 5y ago
Together with my girlfriend I’m planning a trip. Driving from the Netherlands to South Africa and back with an EV. We want to charge the car with solar panels we bring with us. See our website for more details: www.4x4electric.com Challenge for now: how to charge the car with ~60m2 of flexible solar panels. We need a threephase offgrid solar system, but did not find a suitable solution yet. Any ideas?
- roeles 5y ago
  <dutch>Leuk idee!</dutch> Perhaps it makes sense to have a chat with Solar Team Eindhoven/Twente/Delft? Or have a chat with the people at Lightyear. They have a lot of former teammembers.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    That's a great idea, it might even lead to contact with potential sponsors for a trip like that.
  - mkeespiet 5y ago
    Good idea! We are already in contact with Lightyear. They like our idea, but are to busy at the moment to be part of our project. We wil contact the solar teams!
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  How long are y’all planning to do the trip for?
  - mkeespiet 5y ago
    We think the total trip will take ± 1 year
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Wow, that sounds like quite the adventure. Have a 'plan B' in place in case your gear gets damaged or stolen.
sandworm101 5y ago
Marketing. I would take everything on this website with a grain of salt. Take it from someone who has actually built an off-grid system, one that is relied upon for 24/7/365 living rather than mere vacation cottage. For example: OP re lead-acid battery options: "Heavy, cheap, easy to use and they work! Typically will last about 3-5 years. Slower charge rates than lithium, much heavier, and they cost way more in the long run." That is just plain incorrect. Lead-acid batteries regularly last a decade or more and are far cheaper than any lithium option at a given capacity. Look at nearly every 12v car or boat battery. You don't see those being replaced every 3-5 years. It is old reliable tech that just works. And, at a given price point, they can charge faster than lithium too. The downside of lead-acid? There is little profit to make in selling them. All the patents have expired. They don't need software to control them. They are mature, centuries-old technology. A thousand companies are making lead-acid batteries and you can get them cheap. They weigh more, but for residential installation that isn't an issue. The upside? Whereas lithium packs are a nightmare to recycle, lead-acid batteries hook into an established and profitable recycling system. They are the greener alternative to anything containing lithium.
- bkjelden 5y ago
  > Look at nearly every 12v car or boat battery. You don't see those being replaced every 3-5 years. It is old reliable tech that just works. I actually do see this all of the time. In decades of owning multiple cars I've found the batteries tend to fail so regularly at about the 5 year mark that you could set a watch to it. They are easy to find and inexpensive to replace, but they absolutely do have a limited lifespan.
  - varelse 5y ago
    I would love to have found that magical car battery that doesn't die after 5 years or so. But the real comedy is that my EV is required to have one of them independent of all the lithium batteries, and if it discharges/fails, it's a whole fan dance to get into the car.
    - sandworm101 5y ago
neurobashing 5y ago
Just a (hopefully amusing) piece of anecdata: we have a squaredrop trailer, with a set of solar panels to power/charge the 12v marine battery and a pair of Jackery power banks. Most of our camping is done in the eastern woodlands: WV, PA, VA, etc. There is so much tree cover all the time. Some days, even though it's mostly or fully sunny, we're almost always at the end of some disused fire road on the wrong side of a mountain, and we're lucky to get a couple of % back from all-day charges. I'm considering one of those water-powered turbines, since it'll work all night long as well.
- hasbot 5y ago
  Do eastern fire roads often feature fast moving creeks? I kid. Are you able to tilt your solar panels? If they are lying flat on your roof, you won't get much power from them. Speaking as someone that has spent the last three summers off-grid in a forest, in your situation, I'd add the ability to tilt the solar panels, reduce power consumption, and get a multi-fuel (propane and gas) inverter generator along with a propane tank. The inverter generator is a lot quieter, smaller, and lighter than generators. I don't need much power and mostly use the generator for the microwave and occasional topping off the batteries.
- Gys 5y ago
  Why not use the engine of the trailer to (also) charge the batteries while driving? My campervan does that.
varelse 5y ago
Why no love for victron HW? My RV is wired up along with 7.2 KWh worth of battleborn lithium.
- wglb 5y ago
  He does cover them in some of his videos.

311 points by wglb 5y ago

Will Prose seems like a really great person. If you’re interested in what you see on this site, check out his YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/c/WillProwse https://youtube.com/c/WillProwse

Syonyk 5y ago
The problem with him, and people like him on YouTube, is that about 90% of what they say is fine, and 10% ranges from "iffy" to "This is a good way to burn your house down - at some unknown point in the future." The average viewer of that sort of material can't tell the difference, and by the time you can, you're not in need of handwaving entry level information, because you can read the design documents, spec sheets, NEC, and do things yourself. YouTube is simply the wrong medium to try to teach detailed, "can kill you" things like electricity. It's especially wrong when you try to make it about personality, humor, etc moreso than hard technical truths.
- kyleee 5y ago
  "YouTube is simply the wrong medium to try to teach detailed" YouTube is literally just humans talking, so you are basically saying you don't think humans can teach complicated subjects?
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    That's an absolutely absurd characterization of both YouTube and actual teaching. YouTube is dominantly entertainment/personality based "edutainment" at best, based on what seems to percolate to the top and be promoted. There's zero feedback outside comments (standard warnings about comment sections apply here). The right way to teach complex subjects is a more interactive process with hands on material/learning/actually solving the problems yourself. In the case of solar and energy systems, you can do this, but if you don't have some basic EE background, it would be wise to go get that first before listening to some slick talking huckster selling their wares. WHY do we size wires the way we do (either for temperature limits or for voltage drop, depending on the application)? What's wrong with a 5000W 12V inverter (500A or so, and the I^2 components of resistive losses, paired with the voltage drop from those)? I don't think a human lecturing blindly into the void optimizing for "engagement" (whatever metrics those are based on this week) can competently teach any real detailed material, no. That doesn't mean that people can't teach complex material. It just means YouTube is not the place or medium for it.
    - barbecue_sauce 5y ago
      A lot of educational content on YouTube is made by people who have no idea (or interest in) how to optimize for engagement. I'd be willing to bet there is fairly competent basic EE instruction on YouTube that includes lab instructions, working with simulations, problems, and pulling in other exogenous resources to aid in understanding. Its not just a wasteland of pop science like Veritasium, et al.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      This is true, but there are definitely positive exceptions to this rule.
  - woleium 5y ago
    YouTube encourages generating content that rates well, i.e. is entertaining. I agree that learning should be fun, but I don't want to learn about life threating topics from videos that are designed foremost to be entertaining.
    - barbecue_sauce 5y ago
      There is plenty of non-entertaining yet informative and detailed educational content on YouTube. The "entertaining" videos are usually just a gateway to more dry and traditional lectures and courses that are provided by universities and other content generators that see YouTube as a general resource and not an income stream.
  - jrootabega 5y ago
    "YouTube" can mean at least two things: 1. A theoretical space for someone with good ideas and good intentions to share those with the world. 2. The actual experience that viewers will have on YouTube if they were to open it today. 1. and 2. would be almost diametrically opposed these days. If YouTube provided ways for viewers to honestly and fairly discover, rate, filter, and share videos and channels, then the people in case 2 would be able to reliably find the people in case 1. And if YouTube didn't force video makers to pervert their personality and format into algorithm-pleasing parodies, then people in case 1. could continue to produce the content they actually want to produce as long as they were able to. But it's not possible today.
- post_break 5y ago
  This is the dumbest take I've read in a long time. From him I've learned which lifepo4 batteries won't burn my house down, proper wiring for stuff, etc. I've got a 144ah battery pack sitting right next to me as I type this I built from learning from him. Are you sure your comment isn't about the youtuber Electricboom?
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    I rebuilt large (500Wh) lithium ebike batteries professionally and shipped them around North America for a couple years, and have torn down more than my fair share of ebike and tool batteries for analysis. I've yet to see a "YouTube Trained" pack build that I would be remotely comfortable leaving unattended in my house. Though LFP is an awful lot more forgiving than a mix of random recycled 18650s of unknown chemistry, service life, and internal damage history that makes up the bulk of that stuff. If you've got some good high res shots of the build process, I'd happily take a look and see what I think of it. My standards of comparison are the professionally built packs I've torn down for analysis and often enough rebuilt for people. As for who my comment is about, honestly, I apply it generally to that entire class of person on YouTube no matter who they are. I know solar, and off grid solar, fairly well (with a focus on flooded lead acid). I know lithium fairly well, having done quite extensive work on them. In areas I know well, most of the people showing stuff off or trying to teach other people hit the 90/10 split, and as this is a topic of conversation in the quiet off grid backwaters circles I frequent, other people usually agree about which 10% is the problem. Therefore I'm happy to ignore that entire class of person and go do something useful. It's not that education can't be funny, it's that when "personality" and "laughs" and "BIG O FACE I NEARLY BLEW MYSELF UP" style thumbnails are what matters, the really deep (and often quite important) technical details get lost in all that.
    - belval 5y ago
      I was giving you the benefit of doubt, but this comment shows that you've never watched any of Will's video and you are just painting with a very broad brush. He's the kind of Youtuber that keeps repeating that you should place a low temp sensor on your cells, not the kind doing sketchy spot weld on old 18650s.
- nataz 5y ago
  "It's especially wrong when you try to make it about personality, humor, etc moreso than hard technical truths." Have you spent any time watching Will's videos? Your quote doesn't match up at all with what I've seen at all. I found his videos dry, technical, and pretty good with regard to safety.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  sounds a bit gate-keepy to me. People tell me that I shouldn't repair my own car for similar reasons. Instead I should go to the OEM and have it serviced there for 1000,- a pop. This assures I'm getting genuine OEM branded parts with a 800% profit margin while also reducing the time spent on diagnosing the issue because now whole modules get replaced since cost of human labor is expensive. If I would heed that advise, I'd still have no clue about how a modern diesel engine worked, how to reverse and flash a new ECU firmware, how to find and fix any problem without a mechanic ripping me off, or generally engage in things that (in the eyes of the vendor) are "very dangerous" to myself, my family, or others. Yet I still make this choice because the alternative is a "John Deer no right to repair" future where we're ruled by chuckeducks and awful people who can't help but quote "rules and regulations" or can't wait to be up in everyone's shit. There is no way I could be convinced otherwise because this is the nature of those who fiddle and tinker in the first place. I'm sure many of the viewers on this channel think likewise because it's not about safety but about my own freedom to spend my weekends in the garage building something and being rewarded with self reliance. And also the freedom to make mistakes big enough to kill myself by accident without somebody going "uhm well ack-shually".
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    He has a point, but there is a thing you can do to offset some of this: read all of the comments. Plenty of times there will be someone in the comments pointing out what's wrong in the videos. The problem with Lithium Ion installations of any size is that the batteries are inherently dangerous and mistakes can easily set you back more than you saved on the whole thing. Unlike say your car where as long as you stay away from suspension, brakes and steering the worst that could happen is that you end up stranded by the road side. Another issue is that when it goes wrong with Lithium Ion it can go wrong fast and it isn't easy, or sometimes even possible, to stop a thermal runaway once it gets going, especially with densely packed cells, besides the fact that you likely won't be watching your batteries 24x7. There are some people on youtube that advocate for extremely unsafe practices (Jehu Garcia, for instance) and that have a huge following, so Will Prowse is certainly not the worst that you could run into there. It would also be good if he indicated more clearly what his sponsorship relations are and how that relates to the advice that he is giving, quite a few of his videos feel like thinly disguised ads.
jacquesm 5y ago
I have seen enough of his videos to know that he can be spectacularly wrong (dangerously so) about some of his stuff and if you are not already very knowledgeable about this then you may well end up following some very bad advice. This guy has far more practical experience and seems to be less error prone, and also does not shy away from showing when he gets it wrong, which is often far more valuable than a polished and edited video: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0pBauLp63yzf6sVdEOIUbA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0pBauLp63yzf6sVdEOIUbA If you want to learn about DIY off grid power from youtube I'd start here.
- knorker 5y ago
  Interesting. Can you give examples about when he's been dangerously wrong?
  - AYBABTME 5y ago
    I can't recall particular instances but I've seen the same before. FWIW he's getting less stuff wrong over time.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      > FWIW he's getting less stuff wrong over time. That's hopeful, with that kind of following he has some serious responsibility. At the same time, I cringe when I see people working with large packs on workbenches with loose metal laying around, totally irresponsible pack geometries where balance wires cross and recross each other with abandon, recycled cells that have visible external damage and so on. Youtube is a great way to pick up some 'worst practices' thinking that if these youtube stars are doing it it must be ok.
    - willprowseiv 5y ago
      Like what?! Can't any of you people backup your claims. It's just empty complaining on this site without evidence. It's driving me nuts. Show me what I said or have done that was wrong.
Syonyk 5y ago
> Will Prose seems like a really great person. My opinion of him after his attempts to interact in this thread (turn "show dead" on - a bunch of his more arrogant/abrasive posts have been killed, and it looks like he's posting as Solar2 as well) is now far, far lower than it was.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Ditto. I had him pegged as well meaning but sometimes a bit less knowledgeable than he wanted to come across but that didn't stand the test of interaction.
  - willprowseiv 5y ago
    Where would you get the idea that I am not "well meaning"?!? The majority of my videos are exposing scams and rips offs. I constantly bash companies that do a bad job and back up everything I say with evidence. There are extremely ignorant comments here from people who have no clue what they are talking about. I work with batteries every single day and talk to head engineers that are leading the space, and everything I say can be backed up with recent battery studies. There are numerous comments here suggesting to use cobalt based chemistries that can burn your house down and everyone is fine with that? It's ridiculous. I am mad, and this type of ignorance is why I make my videos. I love criticism, but the comments in this thread are plain ridiculous. I am not familiar with this site and that is my fault, but geez, saying I'm not well meaning?? Why?
- willprowseiv 5y ago
  Why?? I must admit, I don't use this website, but a close friend does. I am blown away by the ignorance in understanding lithium ion batteries here, and seeing people here try to crtiicize everything I do pisses me off. How would you feel? I cover safety more than any other channel and constantly work to bring the best diy solar videos online, and this is how people respond? I love criticizism, but this is just silly. People here are fighting for lead acid and saying they are superior? And I don't think they are joking either. Also getting a lot of people mentioning to use recycled cobalt based chemistries that can set your house on fire? This site is dangerous. On my forum we have actual electrical engineers who will destroy you with evidence and list relevant literature. On this site, it is emotions based and no one knows what they are talking about. It's wild. I am mad.

mym1990 5y ago

This is super awesome! I do some overlanding/longer roadtrips in backcountry but have yet to gather the courage to install a solar system. Certainly bookmarking this for future reference :D

Syonyk 5y ago
If you're going to do solar on an RV, you really should read Handy Bob Solar too [0]. The site formatting sucks, it's very much wall-o-text, and he's absolutely right in everything he says and rants about regarding RV solar. Far too many solar installers just treat a system as the entry to people coming back for more, when the problem is that they don't know enough to adjust it properly for the stuff that was installed in the first place. [0]: https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/ https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/ //EDIT: So, apparently, a site that's been static since 2011 and I've linked quite a lot over the years was updated again in 2020 with some ranting about Covid. You can safely ignore that, and read his older writings on solar installs, because just about everything he says about that is correct, at a "Spend five years hands on with solar and you'll eventually come to agree with him, no matter how loony he sounds about some of it when you start in."
- pengaru 5y ago
  - kortilla 5y ago
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    Read the rest about solar, I actually just grabbed it from my bookmarks and didn't realize he'd posted anything new since 2011. Ignore the first few posts and carry on reading his rants about solar, batteries, wire gauge, charge controller location, charging voltage, panel placement, shading, etc.
    - 5y ago

unnouinceput 5y ago

Buy this, buy that and oh! don't DIY because my stuff is more awesome and everything. Since when we get ads at top of HN?. I flagged this crap.

wglb 5y ago
Not an ad. His YouTube reviews are all about diy and cover many brands of batteries and f at liar systems.
- unnouinceput 5y ago

zoba 5y ago

I recently set up my own off grid solar system in a tiny cabin that I designed and had built. I used the Solar Controller+Inverter Combos recommended on this site (Growatt) but ultimately switched to ones by Renogy. The Growatt one I purchased has a wifi adapter and app - wifi requirement was a deal breaker when remote. The renogy one has a Bluetooth adapter and app, plus feels better designed (though actually I think the internals are all pretty similar). There are a couple surprise gotchas I didn’t know: 1) These Controller+Inverter combo units require a battery to turn on. This means: if your battery runs completely out of charge, you have to get electricity from somewhere to charge your battery a bit before the Controller+Inverter will turn on and charge your battery again. I was pretty annoyed at how not “off grid” this felt. 2) Temperatures below freezing are bad for batteries. I purchased a Renogy 48v smart battery with self heating. Unfortunately less sun in winter means less energy, and heat production is energy intensive. I’m not at the cabin 100% of the time so I have to take the battery with me when I leave to avoid spoiling/freezing it. Still not sure how I’ll ultimately get around this.

redtexture 5y ago
Insulated Root celler equivalent location for the battery.
jf 5y ago
Could you dig a hole for your batteries and store them below the frost line?
- Syonyk 5y ago
  The problem with holes in the ground for storage of things like batteries is that... they're holes in the ground. The ground, as a general guideline, actively dislikes holes in it and strives to fill them in whatever way possible. Liquid rolling in, soil creep, debris blowing past and building up, it doesn't matter - given a long enough time, a hole in the ground won't exist anymore. You can build a hole that will hold up to this sort of stuff for a while, but that tends to be expensive - underground concrete work is neither cheap nor easy, and given the number of people injured in trench collapses who do it for a living, a serious underground hole isn't a good DIY project either. That just leaves the maintenance, which also sucks for a hole in the ground. Anything you have to do on the batteries is easier with them on or above the ground, instead of underground in a hole. For lithium, it's fairly low maintenance but you may have to replace some BMS boards every now and then, manually check balance, etc, and for lead it's water every few months, unless you go with sealed, which are "maintenance free," but also "maintenance and status check impossible," so you really just set them and run them to failure - you can't monitor condition like you can with flooded. It's the sort of solution that, technically, would work - it just ends up being radically more expensive and a hassle than it's remotely worth. Think "Spending $5000 to save $20/yr" sort of thing. You see the same trend with things like the complex solar trackers that were common in the 80s and early 90s. With the cost of panels, optimizing every bit of power from them was critical, so spending an awful lot of money on support infrastructure to optimize $10/W panel production made quite a bit of practical and financial sense. Today, with panels at $0.50/W, very few people bother with trackers anymore (for off grid installs). Most things you could improve with a tracker, you can improve with less effort and less money by just hanging more panels. Bonus: With more panels, you get more production on cloudy days when panel orientation doesn't matter (because the sky is more or less evenly lit). I've got south facing, east facing, and west facing panels on my office, of two different brands, all fed into a single MPPT charge controller input (I do have some blocking diodes to prevent backfeeding a shaded string, though). It's not nearly as "efficient" as some other options, but it's a whole lot cheaper, and gives me more power on the low cloud days that are the rough ones. The rest of the year, I have so much power out there that I'm demand limited, not supply limited (actually, inverter limited - if I added some 48VDC loads, I could use another 5kWh/day easily).

greenie_beans 5y ago

Love this dude, he’s got good youtube videos too

Solar2 5y ago
Thank you!

sys_64738 5y ago

Any costing data?

cq493 5y ago

Anyone know if the trailer/flatbed is legal in Los Angeles? Testing without going through an entire permit process would be fun.

m0ngr31 5y ago

I live in an off-grid house. Solar isn't perfect, but it's been pretty good all things considered 6 months in. Converting an airport shuttle bus into an RV now, so I'll have to look this over for that.

kortilla 5y ago
Where did you buy the bus from?
- m0ngr31 5y ago
  Just from some local classifieds.
jacquesm 5y ago
Cool, I'd love to see the write-up on that if you have the time.
- m0ngr31 5y ago
  The house or the shuttle bus?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    The bus! That sounds like a very interesting project.

Cannabat 5y ago

The website's author hosts an excellent forum [0] focused on DIY solar power, for anybody who wants to get a bit deeper in to this and has questions or needs help sourcing parts (like LiFePO4 cells and BMSes) from China. I recently built a LiFePO4 battery and upgraded our caravan (trailer) electrical system following these guides and with help from the forum. Couldn't have done it without those resources. [0]: https://diysolarforum.com/ https://diysolarforum.com/

willprowseiv 5y ago
And there is zero corporate interest and I pay for it out of pocket. It is free for everyone! We have head engineers of solar equipment companies interacting with people in third world countries. it's really great!

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

As I wrote a few weeks ago, I have been successfully running an on-grid 5Kw solar system that has immensely helped me. The on grid part helps with credit banking during summer and using in winters. For that, I changed my on grid inverter with a "phocos solar inverter" that does the same thing but also, when there is a grid power outage, it still supplies power to home without having batteries. I haven't bought batteries because of the cost but this has been a good experience. My panels are 16*325W and I produce around 30Kwh during the day in summers and during the current winter, I get enough to run appliances, rice cooker and lighting.

thot_experiment 5y ago

NGL I think I have a pretty efficient setup and I'm in the process of installing a 4th panel (bringing my total to 1220W) because 915W isn't really cutting it for winter power now that I'm not spending time outside much. My quiescent draw/day is about 500Wh just doing nothing (fridge + internet) and on a cloudy day I'll make maybe 800Wh with the current setup. I don't think 800W of panels will let you power anything you want during winter. I'm also working on a way to bring power in from my alternator but unfortunately I think I'm going to have to invert in the engine bay and rectify feeding into my MPPT controller to avoid running some absurdly thicc wire to carry a few hundred watts at 12 volts.

t0mas88 5y ago
You could get a 12v to 48v DC converter on the car side of things. That already helps a lot in cable thickness.
- thot_experiment 5y ago
  When I looked into this previously I wasn't able to find a suitably sized boost converter but it seems like there are higher capacity ones cheaply available now. Thanks for the suggestion I may very well end up doing this.

mastax 5y ago

An interesting teardown of one of the Ecoflow Delta plug-and-play inverter-batteries by Matthias Wandel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFj4l3EDa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFj4l3EDa8

wolfi1 5y ago

DIY solar power? I would have imagined a step by step instruction guide for a Grätzel-cell

adabaed 5y ago

This is a spanish guy who built his own off-grid setup with solar panels and 18650 batteries. As a complete ignorant in electric stuff to me this is amazing. If you know some spanish you can find here a good channel IMO! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LgbTsIO3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3LgbTsIO3A

oldsecondhand 5y ago
Making an electric car with them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQa5gn-7D74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQa5gn-7D74 He also has setups with used laptop batteries.
willprowseiv 5y ago
Those cells are very dangerous to use. stick to LiFePO4 or LTO. Cobalt based chemistries can experience and awful thermal runaway when over charged. This can occur if you have a shorted fet in your BMS. Which can happen from inrush current or high voltage.

recursinging 5y ago

For folks interested in a more basic, low level, open source approach to this topic, check out Electrodacus [1]. I built a small system using the SBMS0 in my camper van and have been pretty pleased with the results. If having access to schematics and source code is important to you, have a look. [1] https://electrodacus.com/ https://electrodacus.com/

rklaehn 5y ago

This is a nice resource. I am building an off grid / backup solar install for a house in rural Romania. I want it to be off grid capable, but also be able to use the grid when available. One thing I am curious about: do the all in one systems like Growatt or MPT also provide voltage stabilization? The grid here has really bad voltage stability. Sometimes the voltage drops down to 180V (should be 220V in Europe). Some devices like LED lightbulbs and washing machines don't like this at all. So if these devices provide voltage stabilization, that would be great. I would then buy one and a few batteries, and later add the PV panels. It is going to be about 12kW of roof integrated PV.

cfn 5y ago
Offgrid inverters either get the power from the batteries/charge controllers or they get the power from the grid (usually to charge the batteries - they are called charger-inverters, look at the Outback VFX series for an example). This means that either you get the unstable grid power or you get the stable solar/battery power. Maybe there are inverters that somehow compensate and correct the power but I doubt it since they would be fighting the rest of the grid. I would suggest that you add solar with a small battery bank and use the grid for overnight and for dark day charging. This way you have the best of both worlds as you only need a big battery bank if you need a lot of power when there is no sun. P.S. Start with a 48 system since you are going for so much solar power. It is safer and cheaper in the long run.
- rklaehn 5y ago
  Maybe the all in one system is not good in that case. I was hoping that since they already have the AC-DC inverter built in they could also do voltage stabilization. Maybe charge the batteries from either the grid or the PV panels, and always run the house off the batteries via a separate inverter. That way, you got the inefficiency of AC->DC->AC but always have stable voltage. In the long run I want this to be mostly off grid anyway, with the grid as just an emergency option...
  - cfn 5y ago
    Yes, that is a good idea. Get a separate charger and always run the house from the isolated side. This will be more expensive as a good inverter/charger runs in the 1k-2k Euros area and you would need two (unless you find a suitable battery charger which is not very easy). I lived offgrid for nearly a decade and built myself three different solar systems. I started with a small all in one and found out that they are limiting when you want to expand since you usually cannot add more charge controllers and/or panels (which are the easiest way to expand a system). I ended up giving it away and building the others from separate systems. My biggest mistake was starting with 24 volts instead of 48 volts. It is cheaper but it gets a bit dangerous as you step up the power usage and there aren't many options for breakers and such.

AYBABTME 5y ago

Something awesome about boats and RVs is you can experiment with that stuff without permits and learn a lot.

marcodiego 5y ago

Interesting: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/all-in-one-122448v-packages.html https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/all-in-one-122448v-package... programs are selectable by numbers. Reminds me of the Apollo DSKY computer.

melenaos 5y ago

I want to add some panels at my home to lower the monthly power bill but as I understand I have to direct the energy to something, such as fridge or AC, and when there is not enought energy from the sun either automatically switch to grid or manually. Where can I find such information to build a hybrid energy solution?

Faaak 5y ago
All grid-tied solar panels (i.e. what you get when you install solar panels at your home) will do that automatically. Don't don't have to do anything. Solar will be consumed in priority. If there's too much it will be sold and if there's some missing il will be automatically (by the laws of physics) imported from the grid.

mkeespiet 5y ago

Together with my girlfriend I’m planning a trip. Driving from the Netherlands to South Africa and back with an EV. We want to charge the car with solar panels we bring with us. See our website for more details: www.4x4electric.com Challenge for now: how to charge the car with ~60m2 of flexible solar panels. We need a threephase offgrid solar system, but did not find a suitable solution yet. Any ideas?

roeles 5y ago
<dutch>Leuk idee!</dutch> Perhaps it makes sense to have a chat with Solar Team Eindhoven/Twente/Delft? Or have a chat with the people at Lightyear. They have a lot of former teammembers.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  That's a great idea, it might even lead to contact with potential sponsors for a trip like that.
- mkeespiet 5y ago
  Good idea! We are already in contact with Lightyear. They like our idea, but are to busy at the moment to be part of our project. We wil contact the solar teams!
bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
How long are y’all planning to do the trip for?
- mkeespiet 5y ago
  We think the total trip will take ± 1 year
jacquesm 5y ago
Wow, that sounds like quite the adventure. Have a 'plan B' in place in case your gear gets damaged or stolen.

sandworm101 5y ago

Marketing. I would take everything on this website with a grain of salt. Take it from someone who has actually built an off-grid system, one that is relied upon for 24/7/365 living rather than mere vacation cottage. For example: OP re lead-acid battery options: "Heavy, cheap, easy to use and they work! Typically will last about 3-5 years. Slower charge rates than lithium, much heavier, and they cost way more in the long run." That is just plain incorrect. Lead-acid batteries regularly last a decade or more and are far cheaper than any lithium option at a given capacity. Look at nearly every 12v car or boat battery. You don't see those being replaced every 3-5 years. It is old reliable tech that just works. And, at a given price point, they can charge faster than lithium too. The downside of lead-acid? There is little profit to make in selling them. All the patents have expired. They don't need software to control them. They are mature, centuries-old technology. A thousand companies are making lead-acid batteries and you can get them cheap. They weigh more, but for residential installation that isn't an issue. The upside? Whereas lithium packs are a nightmare to recycle, lead-acid batteries hook into an established and profitable recycling system. They are the greener alternative to anything containing lithium.

bkjelden 5y ago
> Look at nearly every 12v car or boat battery. You don't see those being replaced every 3-5 years. It is old reliable tech that just works. I actually do see this all of the time. In decades of owning multiple cars I've found the batteries tend to fail so regularly at about the 5 year mark that you could set a watch to it. They are easy to find and inexpensive to replace, but they absolutely do have a limited lifespan.
- varelse 5y ago
  I would love to have found that magical car battery that doesn't die after 5 years or so. But the real comedy is that my EV is required to have one of them independent of all the lithium batteries, and if it discharges/fails, it's a whole fan dance to get into the car.
  - sandworm101 5y ago

neurobashing 5y ago

Just a (hopefully amusing) piece of anecdata: we have a squaredrop trailer, with a set of solar panels to power/charge the 12v marine battery and a pair of Jackery power banks. Most of our camping is done in the eastern woodlands: WV, PA, VA, etc. There is so much tree cover all the time. Some days, even though it's mostly or fully sunny, we're almost always at the end of some disused fire road on the wrong side of a mountain, and we're lucky to get a couple of % back from all-day charges. I'm considering one of those water-powered turbines, since it'll work all night long as well.

hasbot 5y ago
Do eastern fire roads often feature fast moving creeks? I kid. Are you able to tilt your solar panels? If they are lying flat on your roof, you won't get much power from them. Speaking as someone that has spent the last three summers off-grid in a forest, in your situation, I'd add the ability to tilt the solar panels, reduce power consumption, and get a multi-fuel (propane and gas) inverter generator along with a propane tank. The inverter generator is a lot quieter, smaller, and lighter than generators. I don't need much power and mostly use the generator for the microwave and occasional topping off the batteries.
Gys 5y ago
Why not use the engine of the trailer to (also) charge the batteries while driving? My campervan does that.

varelse 5y ago

Why no love for victron HW? My RV is wired up along with 7.2 KWh worth of battleborn lithium.

wglb 5y ago
He does cover them in some of his videos.