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That sounds great to me, but I don’t see apartment buildings here in NYC being built with induction cook tops. The ones with electric ranges have the crappy one
by ch4s3 5y ago
That sounds great to me, but I don’t see apartment buildings here in NYC being built with induction cook tops. The ones with electric ranges have the crappy ones under glass the switch on and off instead of having variable heat. They’re useless to cook on.
This seem like another law written by people who own brownstones that will make life shittier for people who rent.
- Reichhardt 5y agoBuy an electric pressure cooker. You can cook 100% of your meals using one. I don't even use my oven or stovetop any more.
- BoorishBears 5y agoYou can cook 100% of your meals in one. That sounds like some sort of ironic punishment I'd receive in the afterlife for a grave misdeed.
- selimthegrim 5y agoI don’t understand it. James Coco went mad in 15 minutes!
- kyruzic 5y agoYou can cook all your meals using a microwave too. But no one would seriously recommend that to anyone.
- Auracle 5y agoMm, I love me some pressure cooker hamburgers.
- Reichhardt 5y agoYou can use the saute mode in the place of a stovetop pan.
- dragonwriter 5y ago“Saute mode” is from a universal feature of electric pressure cookers, AFAIK. It's also, while good for the particular use cases it is aimed at, not great general substitute for a proper set of stovetop cookware.
- wumpus 5y agoMost people mentioning electric pressure cookers these days are referring to the "Instant Pot" or similar. Check it out.
- dragonwriter 5y agoI have two Instant Pots and am quite familiar with their features, which is why after I mentioned that the feature was not universal to electric pressure cookers, also discussed the feature itself.
- ch4s3 5y agoYou could, but no one would every suggest that the city government should force you to do that.
- hermes8329 5y agoThumbs up to bland food
- CydeWeys 5y ago> That sounds great to me, but I don’t see apartment buildings here in NYC being built with induction cook tops. Why not? Most new construction is "luxury" priced, as since the land/structure is expensive anyway, and it's only marginally more expensive to put in "premium" appliances that allow you to charge a significant rent premium, everyone does that. Of course new apartments are going to be built with induction cooktops when gas isn't an option. Induction isn't even that much more expensive.
- KingMachiavelli 5y agoIME premium appliances often means new, stainless steel but still cheapest model. It's premium aesthetic not functionality.
- ch4s3 5y ago> Most new construction is "luxury" priced They aren't luxury, they are market rate and the people renting them are often definitionally rent burdened. > marginally more expensive to put in "premium" appliances Induction cook tops cost nearly $4k. A whole electric stove and oven for about $600. > since the land/structure is expensive anyway In NYC you need an expected profit margin of 5% to get a development loan, and that quite high for large real estate projects. Slapping and extra $3-$4k onto each unit just isn't going to work for most projects. > Of course new apartments are going to be built with induction cooktops when gas isn't an option. As of today, there are fewer than 20 apartments for rent in NYC that list induction cooktops in their listings. I've checked every major rental site, and some didn't seem to actually have them based on photos. Plenty of building have electric, but I've never seen a rental with induction or heard of anyone who has one at any price of unit.
- acchow 5y ago> Induction cook tops cost nearly $4k. A whole electric stove and oven for about $600. You are comparing a Tesla Model S to a Toyota Civic. Here is a $500 36-inch induction cooktop https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empava-36-in-Built-In-Electric-Stove-Induction-Cooktop-Touch-Control-in-Black-with-5-Elements-EMP-IDC36/314114598 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empava-36-in-Built-In-Electric-S...?
- MAGZine 5y agoSf did a similar ban because gas infrastructure is leaky over time. Expensive to maintain, bad for your health, bad for the environment. I'm not sure who these people are that sit around and scheme about how to craft laws who fuck over people they'll never meet.
- ch4s3 5y ago> scheme about how to craft laws who fuck over people they'll never meet No one, they just don't consider that effects on peoples' lives. Sure, natural gas isn't great for indoor air quality, but it's easily mitigated by cracking a window or some airflow. Getting stuck with a cheap electric cook top makes cooking a lot more miserable and unreliable and there's nothing you can do to improve the situation if every apartment is built that way.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y agoI love cooking on my gas stove but it's also worth noting that Julia Child filmed The French Chef on electric coils. They are certainly not ideal but they are also far from the worst thing you could be forced to deal with in the kitchen.
- ch4s3 5y agoSaying that one of the most famous chef's ever cooked on a crappy range is a poor argument for legally banning the alternative. You, as you've mentioned like myself prefer a gas range. I gladly acknowledge that induction is equally suitable. However banning gas in new apartment construction forces people by law to use the thing we both agree isn't very good, sine few building will be built with induction.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y agoI honestly don't know all the tradeoffs here. I lived with electric coils for a few years when I was in a rental apartment and somehow we were still happy. It's not ideal but I can certainly picture criteria under which it's the optimal policy. The point about Julia Child is that she was creating works of art using this supposedly unusable tool. If she can manage that, your average Joe should be able to bang together some burgers and saute some vegetables on one.
- analog31 5y agoI'm 57, and have been cooking on conventional electric stoves with time proportioning controls for my entire life. What am I missing? I could consider an induction stove, but running gas to my kitchen would require some pretty major surgery to the house.
- chrisandchips 5y agoThere are recipes and sticky situations where having a near instant heat switch is a real convenience, if not a real life saver. That said, if you've made it this far you probably aren't going to get much out of them. I love gas because I love cooking with a direct flame, but I think from an environmental perspective we're going to have to start making due without them
- analog31 5y agoGood points. I probably have a sixth sense for avoiding recipes that the stove can't manage. I had no idea about the amount of leaking, but it makes sense. Unless you're actively checking every foot of gas pipe everywhere, chances are it's leaking here and there. But it's too bad. I learned while doing process control in a plant with steam heated processes, that you can run a lot of power down a gas pipe. I have a hunch that they could heat all of NYC from just waste heat.
- Symbiote 5y agoInduction gives you most of the benefits of gas: instant heat control. It's even faster heating than gas, easier to clean, safer to use. The hob itself costs more, and the cheapest pans aren't compatible. Gas is often cheaper to run. Other than initial purchase price, a normal electric hob has no advantages.
- dilyevsky 5y agoSome desserts/baking and traditional woks can’t be done on electric. That’s about it. Also electric are more expensive and less reliable for the same quality
- mdoms 5y agoReplacing a cooktop is a 1 hour job.
- lumost 5y agowith a 3k price tag for the cooktop, and another 500-1000 for induction cookware? This regulation effects rental units, renters aren't going to swap ovens and cookware every-time they move house.
- olau 5y agoI bought an induction cooktop for around USD 350 a few years ago. That was the premium unit of a cheap brand. They also had a cheaper one for around USD 200. The cheap, government-controlled rentals in my town started switching to induction for all new cooktops a decade ago. This is in Europe, though.
- acchow 5y ago> with a 3k price tag for the cooktop Here is a 30-inch Samsung induction cooktop for $1100 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Samsung-30-in-Smart-Induction-Modular-Cooktop-in-Black-with-4-Elements-including-Wi-Fi-NZ30A3060UK/318199891 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Samsung-30-in-Smart-Induction-Mo... > and another 500-1000 for induction cookware? Here is a $43 induction cookware set which includes both pots and pans https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-8-Piece-Non-Stick-Kitchen-Cookware/dp/B074817DK1/ https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-8-Piece-Non-Stick-Kitche...
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago> That sounds great to me, but I don’t see apartment buildings here in NYC being built with induction cook tops. Very true for the average apartment. Two (huge) obstacles for induction cooktops: 1) They're still more expensive than a non-induction electric cooktop. Might not be a big deal in a $1 million apartment buildout, but if someone is remodeling a block of apartments that are going to rent out no matter what they contain, the remodelers are going to get the cheaper non-induction equipment. 2) They depend on the type of cookware used. Again, not a big deal if you're a homeowner spending $$$ on a remodel and cookware to go with it. But it is a big deal if you're trying to rent out apartments to people who have cookware and you don't want to get constant calls about the fancy cooktop not working. It's not realistic to expect the average NYC apartment to get fancy induction cooktops. They're just going to get the cheap electric units.
- kenneth 5y agoI now live in Asia, where almost everything built recently is induction. It's wonderful. Hardly an electric garbage stove to be seen anywhere.
- Eric_WVGG 5y agoI don’t “buy” the cookware argument. A cast iron skillet, a pot, and a good saucepan are enough for most folks, can be acquired for under a hundred bucks.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- axiolite 5y ago> A cast iron skillet, a pot, and a good saucepan are enough for most folks, There's a reason 99% of people have non-stick aluminum cookware. Everything else is horrible, and I say that from bitter experience. How often do you scramble eggs on your cast iron skillet? That said... > can be acquired for under a hundred bucks. You can certainly get a small set of non-stick aluminum cookware with induction plates built in for under $100, however, it's not the easiest thing to find in the first place.
- spike021 5y ago> They’re useless to cook on. I'd say this is a bit of an overreaction. They're definitely terrible to time correctly, heat-wise. But they also can definitely cook. I've made a rib-eye steak medium rare just fine on a cast iron using reverse-sear between oven and the glass range. The part I really hate is how careful I need to be not to damage the glass when using a heavy pan like that.
- ch4s3 5y agoYou've done a pretty good job listing all of the reasons that they aren't vey good. In a small apartment, with limited time, and space the extra aggravation really adds up.
- spike021 5y agoOP specifically said "They're useless to cook on" and I provided an example of an excellent dish that uses an electric stove. So, that would certainly seem to disprove their comment because I did in fact cook something, which implies it isn't useless.
- hermes8329 5y agoI don't think that is an overreaction. When looking for a place to live. Gas stove and induction oven are a hard requirement If it doesn't have that...pass immediately
- alostpuppy 5y agoDo you mean convection oven?
- trophycase 5y agomy electric coil cooktop can't even boil water
- mmusc 5y agoLondon banned gas stoves in apartments years ago. They did that to reduce the risk of fires. Citizens adjusted fine, no one went hungry and life went on.. While I agree with you the gas stove tops are better, electric ones work OK
- calcifer 5y ago> London banned gas stoves in apartments years ago. Do you have a source for that? I have a gas stove, and so do many others I know, and I've never heard of a ban.
- ealexhudson 5y agoI don't believe it's true, it certainly isn't something London could bring in on its own. However, gas appliances over here for apartments do need to have flame sensors (so the gas gets cut off), and if you're a landlord, you're going to need to do annual safety checks on gas equipment (apartment or not). So the equipment itself is slightly more costly for an apartment, and a landlord specifically has a strong incentive to have little/no gas, to save on the annual checks.
- dazc 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point Tldr; a tower block suffered a partial collapse as a result of a gas explosion in 1968. Changes to Building Regulations were made to mitigate against 'Disproportionate Collapse' (Effect on legislation) 'Existing buildings were allowed to resist an explosive force of 17 kPa (2.5 psi), provided that the gas supply was removed and flats were refitted for electric cooking and heating.' Such buildings with gas supplies today will have been constructed to comply with the amended regulations.
- scaryclam 5y agoI'm calling shenanigans on this. I've never had an electric oven top while renting in London, and all flats have had gas heating. Looking online, I can also see new build flats with gas, so I really doubt this is a ban in London.
- 5y ago
- doikor 5y agoFor the record most (all?) induction cook tops have a glass surface too. Also induction ones are not that much more expensive. Here in Finland the price difference is ~50e when compared to a ceramic ("glass") one. And as for cooking experience I prefer induction. It heats up the fastest and can control the heat just fine.
- vidarh 5y agoAs someone who grew up somewhere without any gas supply (Norway), and hadn't seen a gas hob until I moved to the UK at 25, I find it hilarious when people say this. It's different to cook on, but it really does not make much difference for most people.
- paganel 5y agoElectric cooktops are more expensive compared to the gas-equivalent ones, that counts, especially for middle- and low-income countries (even though I agree, in countries like Norway that might not seem like that much of a problem). Also, in terms of resilience gas cooking beats electric cooking. In my experience (I live in an Eastern European capital city) gas delivery has been more constant compared to electric power, not to mention that even if both gas and electricity were to be cut off it's much easier to connect an existing gas cooktop to a small gas tank than it would be to connect an electric cooktop to an equivalent battery. In fact my parents still use gas tanks for part of their cooking (for the other part they use actual wood).
- vidarh 5y agoNorway used to be relatively poor. If anything too poor to consider building a gas supply network too. In that sense I guess Norway leapfrogged the issue. At the point building a gas supply might have been viable it just wasn't on anyone's radar. As for reliance on electric supply, I haven't experienced any outage longer than a couple of minutes since the 1980s, but I get that will certainly depend on where you live.
- newsclues 5y agoResilience of gas is important to consider as it eliminates the single point of failure, if your power goes out you still have a means of heat.
- vidarh 5y agoMany places the reliability of power is good enough that we're prepared to handle that by going to a hotel. It's been decades since I experienced more than a couple of minutes without power. Meanwhile I've had gas boilers fail twice and had to resort to electric heaters while waiting for repairs.