7 ms·

When COVID is over, the state will not willingly dismantle the new surveillance and information propagation/censorship systems it has built. The loss in liberty

When COVID is over, the state will not willingly dismantle the new surveillance and information propagation/censorship systems it has built. The loss in liberty from COVID will make 9/11 and the Patriot Act look like a drop in the bucket. I used to think that as people who were more familiar with these issues we might be able to do something. It feels now more like we just won't be anesthetized when the doctor gets the hacksaw out.

moistly 5y ago
That’s really quite hyperbolic, given that it’s the cell provider’s anonymized aggregate data, for sale to anyone who cares to pay.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Many states and nations built databases to track who is vaccinated, who is infected, and who their contacts are. They will not go away, and they can be used to track anything.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    If this were the case, it should be a very big story. But it's anonymoized data, they are looking at behavioural patterns. This is probably a really smart thing to do.
- gruez 5y ago
  >given that it’s the cell provider’s anonymized aggregate data, for sale to anyone who cares to pay. I heard that's the case for the US, but is that the case for canada as well?
  - gpm 5y ago
    Apparently, yes "The Insights platform was widely used even prior to the pandemic," [1] I found [1] from the telus site describing this at [2]. The data platform is [3]. They say that they aggregate the data into large buckets, but I haven't figured out exactly what that means. [1] https://iapp.org/news/a/teluss-data-for-good-wins-hpe-iapp-privacy-innovation-award/ https://iapp.org/news/a/teluss-data-for-good-wins-hpe-iapp-p... [2] https://www.telus.com/en/about/privacy/data-for-good https://www.telus.com/en/about/privacy/data-for-good [3] https://www.telus.com/en/business/medium-large/enterprise-solutions/big-data-analytics https://www.telus.com/en/business/medium-large/enterprise-so...
    - rkagerer 5y ago
      That's the problem. Agencies use this vague, meaningless language when what you really need to understand the implications and scrutinize them are the sordid technical details.
chii 5y ago
> censorship systems what censorship system is installed as a pandemic measure by the gov't?
- bad_username 5y ago
  You cannot post anything on major social media if it contradicts what the establishment broadly regards as true. Best case scenario your post is removed, worse case scenario your account is suspended, worst case scenario the police come knocking at your door (e.g. Australia).
- lmm 5y ago
  Certain topics now get you a big warning banner and maybe a shadowban on major social networks, and they'll openly admit as much. If that's not at the government's request then it's only because those social networks pre-empted the government.
  - tremon 5y ago
    But that's not an innovation caused by the pandemic. Weren't those labels introduced in response to the spoutings of the previous POTUS, even before Covid-19 was a thing? They may have been used to combat misinformation during the 2016 election campaign, I don't recall exactly. But the mechanism definitely existed before this virus appeared.
    - lmm 5y ago
      There was certainly talk about them in the aftermath of the 2016 US elections, but I don't remember them actually being introduced until Covid-19; certainly they weren't used anywhere near this widely.
koolba 5y ago
Power is rarely given up by direct request, if ever. Every inch that is given is one that must be fought tooth and nail to be reclaimed. The silver lining of the past two years of incredible government overreach is an awakening in the minds of the common man of what’s possible if not for the push back of the determined. I’m not sure how this will all end, but I don’t see anymore widespread lockdowns or a total surveillance State taking control. At least not in the USA. There’s enough of us to reject that outright.
- amcoastal 5y ago
  Except the thing that got everyone riled up is common sense activities like wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Where were those people at when bush was taking away their civil liberties? Waving their flags. I can at least get behind the folks like you who have a consistent view, but I definitely don't think that's 95% and I definitely think you are very mistaken that people are suddenly going to start trying to stop the other parts of the surveillance state (aka the actual bad parts, not the wear a mask part).
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    That’s not where the line should be drawn. There is a small group dismayed at every erosion of liberties and drumming for foreign war, and then there are two large groups who take turns eroding the liberties spending munitions and using the other party as the excuse to have their turn doing it.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    Exactly this. I had the misfortune of experiencing TSA security recently and it's still 99% bullshit security theatre from the 9/11 era. Covid stuff was just a sideshow.
  - nerdponx 5y ago
    This is been a really depressing reality check for me. People are happy to let their important rights and liberties be taken away, as long as it's not too overt or sudden. But don't you dare make me wear a mask indoors during a respiratory virus pandemic!! What's even more frustrating is that these people generally aren't "stupid".
sudosysgen 5y ago
The infrastructure wasn't built for COVID. It was already all there far before. The sad truth is that privacy wise we lost barely any privacy because it was already all gone. The only risk is giving another excuse for legitimisation.
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  - taneq 5y ago
    Never let a crisis go to waste, huh?
    - kerneloftruth 5y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-YuhFWCr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-YuhFWCr4
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jollybean 5y ago
The general risk is there and I think politicians should talk more about it, but I'm wary that your statement is too broad. Why are you concerned about your government trying to stop the spread of COVID, but hand over, willy nilly, the data to Apple and Google so they can sell you NFTs, microwaves and cars, and then also sell that data to others? The government is using generic tower data avaiable to any number of sources. It's like collect car traffic data to improve stoplight efficiency. This is what we want them to be doing. They should be transparent about it and contextualize it, but this program I'm fine with. The lack of constitutional grounds for the 'curfews' is a bit discouraging, I'm shocked to see what's going in in Australia, they need some laws there.
Pxtl 5y ago
Uh, this is the normal capitalist surveillance that is the business model of the kind of unicorns people here on hn want to found or work at. The Canadian public health authorities just bought access to existing corporate databases. Do you really think public health is less worthy of using this data than marketing and sales?
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  The government has the power to imprison people and can even give themselves the right to put people to death, regardless of the legality of the death penalty in any particular jurisdiction. So yes, I want them held to much higher and stricter standards than the folks at Dunkin' Donuts trying to find a better way to get me to buy coffee from them.
steelstraw 5y ago
20 years ago one guy failed to light his shoe on fire and to this day we’re still taking our shoes off at the airport.
- redis_mlc 5y ago

moistly 5y ago

That’s really quite hyperbolic, given that it’s the cell provider’s anonymized aggregate data, for sale to anyone who cares to pay.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Many states and nations built databases to track who is vaccinated, who is infected, and who their contacts are. They will not go away, and they can be used to track anything.
- jollybean 5y ago
  If this were the case, it should be a very big story. But it's anonymoized data, they are looking at behavioural patterns. This is probably a really smart thing to do.
gruez 5y ago
>given that it’s the cell provider’s anonymized aggregate data, for sale to anyone who cares to pay. I heard that's the case for the US, but is that the case for canada as well?
- gpm 5y ago
  Apparently, yes "The Insights platform was widely used even prior to the pandemic," [1] I found [1] from the telus site describing this at [2]. The data platform is [3]. They say that they aggregate the data into large buckets, but I haven't figured out exactly what that means. [1] https://iapp.org/news/a/teluss-data-for-good-wins-hpe-iapp-privacy-innovation-award/ https://iapp.org/news/a/teluss-data-for-good-wins-hpe-iapp-p... [2] https://www.telus.com/en/about/privacy/data-for-good https://www.telus.com/en/about/privacy/data-for-good [3] https://www.telus.com/en/business/medium-large/enterprise-solutions/big-data-analytics https://www.telus.com/en/business/medium-large/enterprise-so...
  - rkagerer 5y ago
    That's the problem. Agencies use this vague, meaningless language when what you really need to understand the implications and scrutinize them are the sordid technical details.

chii 5y ago

> censorship systems what censorship system is installed as a pandemic measure by the gov't?

bad_username 5y ago
You cannot post anything on major social media if it contradicts what the establishment broadly regards as true. Best case scenario your post is removed, worse case scenario your account is suspended, worst case scenario the police come knocking at your door (e.g. Australia).
lmm 5y ago
Certain topics now get you a big warning banner and maybe a shadowban on major social networks, and they'll openly admit as much. If that's not at the government's request then it's only because those social networks pre-empted the government.
- tremon 5y ago
  But that's not an innovation caused by the pandemic. Weren't those labels introduced in response to the spoutings of the previous POTUS, even before Covid-19 was a thing? They may have been used to combat misinformation during the 2016 election campaign, I don't recall exactly. But the mechanism definitely existed before this virus appeared.
  - lmm 5y ago
    There was certainly talk about them in the aftermath of the 2016 US elections, but I don't remember them actually being introduced until Covid-19; certainly they weren't used anywhere near this widely.

koolba 5y ago

Power is rarely given up by direct request, if ever. Every inch that is given is one that must be fought tooth and nail to be reclaimed. The silver lining of the past two years of incredible government overreach is an awakening in the minds of the common man of what’s possible if not for the push back of the determined. I’m not sure how this will all end, but I don’t see anymore widespread lockdowns or a total surveillance State taking control. At least not in the USA. There’s enough of us to reject that outright.

amcoastal 5y ago
Except the thing that got everyone riled up is common sense activities like wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Where were those people at when bush was taking away their civil liberties? Waving their flags. I can at least get behind the folks like you who have a consistent view, but I definitely don't think that's 95% and I definitely think you are very mistaken that people are suddenly going to start trying to stop the other parts of the surveillance state (aka the actual bad parts, not the wear a mask part).
- 1123581321 5y ago
  That’s not where the line should be drawn. There is a small group dismayed at every erosion of liberties and drumming for foreign war, and then there are two large groups who take turns eroding the liberties spending munitions and using the other party as the excuse to have their turn doing it.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  Exactly this. I had the misfortune of experiencing TSA security recently and it's still 99% bullshit security theatre from the 9/11 era. Covid stuff was just a sideshow.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  This is been a really depressing reality check for me. People are happy to let their important rights and liberties be taken away, as long as it's not too overt or sudden. But don't you dare make me wear a mask indoors during a respiratory virus pandemic!! What's even more frustrating is that these people generally aren't "stupid".

sudosysgen 5y ago

The infrastructure wasn't built for COVID. It was already all there far before. The sad truth is that privacy wise we lost barely any privacy because it was already all gone. The only risk is giving another excuse for legitimisation.

kerneloftruth 5y ago
- taneq 5y ago
  Never let a crisis go to waste, huh?
  - kerneloftruth 5y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-YuhFWCr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-YuhFWCr4

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jollybean 5y ago

The general risk is there and I think politicians should talk more about it, but I'm wary that your statement is too broad. Why are you concerned about your government trying to stop the spread of COVID, but hand over, willy nilly, the data to Apple and Google so they can sell you NFTs, microwaves and cars, and then also sell that data to others? The government is using generic tower data avaiable to any number of sources. It's like collect car traffic data to improve stoplight efficiency. This is what we want them to be doing. They should be transparent about it and contextualize it, but this program I'm fine with. The lack of constitutional grounds for the 'curfews' is a bit discouraging, I'm shocked to see what's going in in Australia, they need some laws there.

Pxtl 5y ago

Uh, this is the normal capitalist surveillance that is the business model of the kind of unicorns people here on hn want to found or work at. The Canadian public health authorities just bought access to existing corporate databases. Do you really think public health is less worthy of using this data than marketing and sales?

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
The government has the power to imprison people and can even give themselves the right to put people to death, regardless of the legality of the death penalty in any particular jurisdiction. So yes, I want them held to much higher and stricter standards than the folks at Dunkin' Donuts trying to find a better way to get me to buy coffee from them.

steelstraw 5y ago

20 years ago one guy failed to light his shoe on fire and to this day we’re still taking our shoes off at the airport.

redis_mlc 5y ago