13 ms·

The leader who's standing up to China

102 points by acqbu 5y ago

droopyEyelids 5y ago
It is interesting how long a nearby territory/country can 'Stand up to China' When you look at _countries_ (not even territories!) that have tried to 'stand up' to the USA, you only see a trail of immiseration and coup d'état. They don't even have to be _that_ close to us geographically, like Nicaragua or Chile. Cuba is the closest to a success story, and look at their economic indicators. https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/gdp-per-capita-ppp https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/gdp-per-capita-ppp I don't know what conclusion to draw from this, but it's just wild to me that China is a superpower, and not only has Taiwan failed to have a revolution, but they're a financial success. https://statisticstimes.com/economy/country/taiwan-gdp-per-capita.php https://statisticstimes.com/economy/country/taiwan-gdp-per-c...
- trasz 5y ago
  I’m not sure it’s a valid comparison, because no other country is even remotely comparable in aggressiveness with USA. What if you compared with eg India instead?
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    If you look at Russia's invasion of Georgia and Ukraine, they are at least "remotely comparable".
    - trasz 5y ago
      Couple of thousands dead (Ukraine) vs one million dead (Middle East); I’d say that’s quite a difference.
      - adolph 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
      - hourislate 5y ago
        What about the 7-14 million Ukrainians Russia starved to death, do they count? Sure it happened a while ago but it happened and it was Russian aggressiveness that still reverberates today. Your attitude dismisses you from any and all future discussions on this matter. You have demonstrated that your are unfit to comment.
        trasz 5y ago
        What about all the natives slain by Americans, and then the slavery? How about racist laws designed to get the black population into prisons (largely successfully)? What about people dying, because money that would normally be used to fund healthcare are being wasted on invading other counties instead? So, I’d say it makes sense to focus on the current state of affairs, including recent history. War in Georgia is recent history, as is the Middle East. Holodomor, American concentration camps for Japanese, or apartheid - not so much. Not to mention that people responsible for Holodomor are all dead. People responsible for killing million random civilians in the Middle East are living very comfortable lives, and their fellow citizens don’t even consider them criminals.
        enaaem 5y ago
        You don’t decide what is relevant. Ukraine has not forgotten and it is clear which side they have chosen now. No country in the world has such bad relations with it’s neighbours than Russia.
        trasz 5y ago
        Oh, American natives didn’t forget either, same way the Chinese never forgot about Japan and Russians about Nazis, but it doesn’t change the fact it’s all ancient history. Also, don’t get me wrong, but Ukraine doesn’t exactly have good relations with USA either. Remember how twenty years ago they promised you protection if you give up your nuclear weapons? They screwed your over. Now they are denying you NATO membership, for the same reason. They are really good at propaganda though.
    - enaaem 5y ago
      The USSR was pretty much Russian imperialism. Russia is still very unpopular in eastern Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
      - juanani 5y ago
  - srvmshr 5y ago
    If we are talking about China-India equations, they are troubled too. China claims vast swathes of land all along the Himalayas, including two Indian states (as being part of ancient Southern Tibet). It is interesting that China recognizes claims only unilaterally, as any territory in dispute on Chinese side is immediately shut off from the discussion. India & China are in middle of a military standoff, which began in 2020 summer, about border lines [1]. It has seen one of the most massive buildups since 1962 Sino-Indian war [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%...
    - trasz 5y ago
      So, how many people died in that conflict? Because, frankly, I don’t give a damn about oil or territorial claims. That’s just politics. People’s lives - that’s what matters.
      - srvmshr 5y ago
        About 40 Chinese soldiers from unofficial sources, CIA reports etc, & ~20 soldiers on the Indian side. India seems to be more transparent on casualties here as the list of dead soldiers has been published in their newspapers/gazettes after the skirmishes in 2020. This information is better explained on Wikipedia.
      - captn3m0 5y ago
        Even small skirmishes have downstream impact indirectly. In India’s case, they often decide the poll results as tensions run high. Similar to how small-terrorist attacks (with small number of deaths) can result in huge policy changes that change countries forever.
- zepto 5y ago
  Taiwan has had the protection of and deep economic cooperation with the USA.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- whodunnit 5y ago
  Superpower (from Google): A powerful and influential nation, especially a nuclear power that dominates its allies or client states in an international power bloc. > I don't know what conclusion to draw from this, but it's just wild to me that China is a superpower, and not only has Taiwan failed to have a revolution, but they're a financial success. It would seem that China doesn’t meet the definition of a superpower, but I think we should all be very wary of any nation or individual who seeks power over others. Those who seek power are those we don’t want to have it.
- trynumber9 5y ago
  >territory/country How telling.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Isolating yourself from the world's largest economy isn't a winning economic policy.
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    > Isolating yourself from the world's largest economy isn't a winning economic policy. If you're saying that Taiwan is isolating itself from China, then you are very wrong. Taiwan and China's economies are very intertwined. Taiwanese companies have had a large hand in the economic growth of China during the past generation. It's a good reminder that countries can do quite well working with one another even if they're rivals. Hopefully this reality keeps hostilities in check.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - kube-system 5y ago
      I'm not saying that -- I'm responding to: >_countries_ (not even territories!) that have tried to 'stand up' to the USA, you only see a trail of immiseration and coup d'état. I think the situation demonstrates that China needs Taiwan more than the US needs Cuba.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  Taiwan (ROC) has been a separate country on the doorstep of China (PRC) for more than 70 years. This status quo could certainly continue another 70 years. This status quo could even outlast the PRC government. I think the conclusion you should draw from this is the obvious one: China is not all powerful.
  - riffic 5y ago
    by "separate country", Taiwan is governed by a group that believes it is the true government of China in exile. It might be helpful to be clear about this.
    - CogitoCogito 5y ago
      > by "separate country", Taiwan is governed by a group that believes it is the true government of China in exile. It might be helpful to be clear about this. The overlapping (though not equal) border claims by the ROC and the PRC don't change the fact that they are two separate countries. No clarity is required because it really isn't relevant. Border disputes between countries is entirely normal.
      - riffic 5y ago
        you're muddying the waters and it's absolutely relevant (History and historical context is always relevant). In 1949, the Republic of China retreated to the island of Taiwan and continues to this day to claim to be the government (in exile) of China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_the_government_of_the_Republic_of_China_to_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_the_government_of_t... This isn't a simple border dispute between separate countries. It's a governance dispute between two competing claims to a single country.
        natded 5y ago
        This is pretty funny though, if I've understood this correctly. People in the West always seem to think that a properly democratic government made by the chinese people (be it those in Taiwan or those in China) would be "peaceful", but to me if I look at a map and observe the lands Taiwan claims for herself, it seems quite a lot (if they do actually claim the rights to governing the China-China too, and not just Taiwan the Island)
- rectang 5y ago
  This is pure, distilled whataboutism.
moogleii 5y ago
Curious, why do they describe her as a technocrat when her background is in law?
- mrec 5y ago
  "Technocrat" doesn't necessarily imply "technologist". It's like the more colloquial "wonk", i.e. someone who's more interested in the minutiae of policy rather than party affiliation or personal aggrandizement. Offtopic: dear god that article is a design trainwreck. I don't think I've ever been more thankful for Firefox's reader view.
  - kodah 5y ago
    I thought it usually implies a Subject Matter Expert, rather than someone who dabbled too much in policy
jetsetgo 5y ago
[dead]
mrobot 5y ago
The constant onslaught of US "news" drumming up war on China and Russia is very scary. The production value of this site and the detail of its design are a problem. Reuters is a problem. This is indeed war propaganda. I do think the United States is on the offensive in this "cold war", and they they want it to be hot. United States foreign policy has historically been, let's say, less than helpful. I really do not believe China is a threat to the world. What exactly is there to stand up to? Why not cooperate with China for mutual good? I believe Chinese leadership when they say all they want is a more multilateral world. US simply can't stop being world hegemon. Looking at the way people post both on this site and on Reddit about China, it's all same old Yellow Peril racism if you ask me. Really getting sick and tired of everyone just uncritically taking in US war propaganda and jumping on the war wagon.
- yumraj 5y ago
  > I really do not believe China is a threat to the world. Tibetans, Uighars, HKers and citizens of almost all the countries that share a land or sea border with China will disagree with you. And so will all the countries, such as Lithuania, and private companies who have been forced to toe CCP line. I can keep going on…
- zepto 5y ago
  The build up of troops on the border of Ukraine, and the Chinese military incursions into Taiwan’s airspace have not been drummed up by the US news.
  - juanani 5y ago
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    So first, Taiwan is not sovereign nation. Under international law, Taiwan and mainland is one nation. So there is no such concept of Taiwan airspace per international law. And, the so-called incursion is to Taiwan's air defence identification zone. That zone covers majority of Fujian province. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(East_China_Sea) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Z... Literally, mainlanders are intrusion Taiwan adiz constantly. That's how ridiculous the western media repotting has been nowadays. They'll refuse to even acknowledge an obviously physically impossible situation, and blame on China...
star-trek-fleet 5y ago
Ms. Tsai is a skillful politician. Her success primarily lies on the adoption and the adept use of identity politics in Taiwan. Despite a long history of national linkage with mainland China, Taiwan, under the colonization and brutal cultural and economic transformation by Japan invasion in the early 20 century till the end of WWII, have gone through a heart breaking separation from the homeland. Ms. Tsai, just like her mentor, Mr. Lee Teng-hui are heavily influenced by liberal Democratic political ideology, and refined that with a modern form that is closer to western worlds. Mr. Lee Teng-hui represents a more Japanese heritage. And because of his disillusioned passion for communism, Lee had been a communist, and got bullied by KMT after the retreat. Ms. Tsai led a whirlwind of political ascension through labeling "本省人” “外省人” political identities. Where she also mastered the online propaganda toolings eg the 1450 army (https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%E6%89%8B https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%...). Mrs. Tsai's domestic policy heavily rely on trade economic value for political ties like importing US pork with additive that are known to have harm to human https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%E6%89%8B https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%... And cultivation of national pride to distance the Taiwan island from mainland, and make the island more prestigious and similar to a national body. Like the so-called "advanced vaccine" by Taiwan's own Rd center https://www.dw.com/zh/%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E5%BC%80%E6%89%93%E8%87%AA%E4%BA%A7%E9%AB%98%E7%AB%AF%E7%96%AB%E8%8B%97-%E6%9C%AA%E5%AE%8C%E6%88%90%E4%B8%89%E6%9C%9F%E8%AF%95%E9%AA%8C%E5%BC%95%E4%BA%89%E8%AE%BA/a-58893881 https://www.dw.com/zh/%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E5%BC%80%E6%89%93%E... these vaccines are rushed to public without adequate testing, and caused higher than usual death. Ms. Tsai obviously has no adherence to the international law that recognize Taiwan as a part of China. And many Taiwan politicians are fearful of joining China for historical reasons. They even rejected Jiang Zeming's offer to retain it's own military and civil government, by just recognizing formally the CCP led central government, literally a federated nation. Unfortunately, Taiwan's cultural linkage to China is weak. And the mainland is gearing towards a coercive reunification in some form that is appropriate to China's economic and political consideration. I.e., If China continue to grow and surpass US in all major aspects of national strength, Taiwan can keep this state indefinitely, as China does not really care that much when it becomes a more powerful US. But US won't allow that, global hegemony is a zero sum game, the loss of that status will destroy US financial industry, for an example of the consequence. And Taiwan for her self proclaimed high vision of independence, is heading into a dead end. As a weakening China will be more hostile to the island, Taiwan, in its own pursuit of some potlical value, will bring ruin to the island, probably bundled with significant damage to the mainland. Meanwhile, US would righteously declare the victory of democracy, and say nothing about the human suffering in the conflict, and exploit the economic loot afterwards. In the end, I'll support the growth of China in all aspects of national power. Hopefully a better version of US can born from that. I'll do my best to influence the Western audience about the more complicated aspect of Taiwan issue, to broaden their view about alternatives than just the black and white democracy vs xxxx (authoritarian dictatorship swap any of your favorite words on China). The US led world order is simply not going to sustain, everyone needs to understand not only US cannot make an example of the right and good, US no longer have the means other than destruction in shaping other nations' fate.
natded 5y ago
The Taiwanese leader is hardly "standing up" to China. China's calculus of attacking Taiwan is probably a more global in scale: for example US submarines can end the maritime traffic in South China Sea completely at any given point.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  SCS is not conducive to submarine operations, which is why China wants to monopolize it so badly. Otherwise, they are completely hemmed in by Korea, Russia, Japan, Taiwan. Unfettered sea access for trade or military reasons is seen as very important, right now it is easy to cut China off (and Russia is still considered a frenemy despite how relations have improved in the last 20 years).
rectang 5y ago
> "With their lives, blood and tears, the young people in Hong Kong have demonstrated for us that one country, two systems is not feasible," Tsai said. The saga of Hong Kong is so sad. They didn't take their freedom for granted, they struggled mightily, but ultimately they have been crushed. The lesson for Taiwan could not be more stark. I can see why Tsai said this, and why she has received such support from the Taiwanese people in response. It is hard to stand up to the CCP. If an individual with Chinese ties did so on a forum such as HN, doubtless they would be reported by omnipresent loyalists monitoring these exchanges, just as the students were at various US universities. https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china-cracks-down-on-students-who-speak-out https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china...
- ssss11 5y ago
  Not just US universities - those stories have been widely reported in Australia too. I’d expect it’s happening everywhere…
  - mmerlin 5y ago
    Add the large numbers of Left and Right politicians (both Labour and Liberal) happy to sell their soul and lawmaking abilities for corrupt bags of dirty money from Chinese Communist Party / Mining / Gambling / Property Developers. Vote all these old geezers out! The major political parties in Australia are by and large a cesspit of spineless sellouts. Vote for the smaller independent parties, especially those with younger candidates. Drew Pavlou's party for example (with some Uyghur-Australians). https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-15/drew-pavlou-democratic-alliance-political-party-uyghur-hong-kong/100700918 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-15/drew-pavlou-democrati... Donate funds to these truth seekers if you can...
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  The game is asymmetric. Hongkonger cannot fight back with all guns with chinese hands. Look at many countries and firms (say intel lately), Taiwan is still in danger as we are not sure any real consequences once the Dist settled down. And how many insiders are there. In Taiwan. Just … we can hope in a not so hopeful scenario.
akimball 5y ago
If I was running defense for Taiwan I would have had small nukes forward placed in the major PRC power nexii for the last twenty years.
known 5y ago

102 points by acqbu 5y ago

It is interesting how long a nearby territory/country can 'Stand up to China' When you look at _countries_ (not even territories!) that have tried to 'stand up' to the USA, you only see a trail of immiseration and coup d'état. They don't even have to be _that_ close to us geographically, like Nicaragua or Chile. Cuba is the closest to a success story, and look at their economic indicators. https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/gdp-per-capita-ppp https://tradingeconomics.com/cuba/gdp-per-capita-ppp I don't know what conclusion to draw from this, but it's just wild to me that China is a superpower, and not only has Taiwan failed to have a revolution, but they're a financial success. https://statisticstimes.com/economy/country/taiwan-gdp-per-capita.php https://statisticstimes.com/economy/country/taiwan-gdp-per-c...

trasz 5y ago
I’m not sure it’s a valid comparison, because no other country is even remotely comparable in aggressiveness with USA. What if you compared with eg India instead?
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  If you look at Russia's invasion of Georgia and Ukraine, they are at least "remotely comparable".
  - trasz 5y ago
    Couple of thousands dead (Ukraine) vs one million dead (Middle East); I’d say that’s quite a difference.
    - adolph 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
    - hourislate 5y ago
      What about the 7-14 million Ukrainians Russia starved to death, do they count? Sure it happened a while ago but it happened and it was Russian aggressiveness that still reverberates today. Your attitude dismisses you from any and all future discussions on this matter. You have demonstrated that your are unfit to comment.
      - trasz 5y ago
        What about all the natives slain by Americans, and then the slavery? How about racist laws designed to get the black population into prisons (largely successfully)? What about people dying, because money that would normally be used to fund healthcare are being wasted on invading other counties instead? So, I’d say it makes sense to focus on the current state of affairs, including recent history. War in Georgia is recent history, as is the Middle East. Holodomor, American concentration camps for Japanese, or apartheid - not so much. Not to mention that people responsible for Holodomor are all dead. People responsible for killing million random civilians in the Middle East are living very comfortable lives, and their fellow citizens don’t even consider them criminals.
        enaaem 5y ago
        You don’t decide what is relevant. Ukraine has not forgotten and it is clear which side they have chosen now. No country in the world has such bad relations with it’s neighbours than Russia.
        trasz 5y ago
        Oh, American natives didn’t forget either, same way the Chinese never forgot about Japan and Russians about Nazis, but it doesn’t change the fact it’s all ancient history. Also, don’t get me wrong, but Ukraine doesn’t exactly have good relations with USA either. Remember how twenty years ago they promised you protection if you give up your nuclear weapons? They screwed your over. Now they are denying you NATO membership, for the same reason. They are really good at propaganda though.
  - enaaem 5y ago
    The USSR was pretty much Russian imperialism. Russia is still very unpopular in eastern Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
    - juanani 5y ago
- srvmshr 5y ago
  If we are talking about China-India equations, they are troubled too. China claims vast swathes of land all along the Himalayas, including two Indian states (as being part of ancient Southern Tibet). It is interesting that China recognizes claims only unilaterally, as any territory in dispute on Chinese side is immediately shut off from the discussion. India & China are in middle of a military standoff, which began in 2020 summer, about border lines [1]. It has seen one of the most massive buildups since 1962 Sino-Indian war [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%...
  - trasz 5y ago
    So, how many people died in that conflict? Because, frankly, I don’t give a damn about oil or territorial claims. That’s just politics. People’s lives - that’s what matters.
    - srvmshr 5y ago
      About 40 Chinese soldiers from unofficial sources, CIA reports etc, & ~20 soldiers on the Indian side. India seems to be more transparent on casualties here as the list of dead soldiers has been published in their newspapers/gazettes after the skirmishes in 2020. This information is better explained on Wikipedia.
    - captn3m0 5y ago
      Even small skirmishes have downstream impact indirectly. In India’s case, they often decide the poll results as tensions run high. Similar to how small-terrorist attacks (with small number of deaths) can result in huge policy changes that change countries forever.
zepto 5y ago
Taiwan has had the protection of and deep economic cooperation with the USA.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
whodunnit 5y ago
Superpower (from Google): A powerful and influential nation, especially a nuclear power that dominates its allies or client states in an international power bloc. > I don't know what conclusion to draw from this, but it's just wild to me that China is a superpower, and not only has Taiwan failed to have a revolution, but they're a financial success. It would seem that China doesn’t meet the definition of a superpower, but I think we should all be very wary of any nation or individual who seeks power over others. Those who seek power are those we don’t want to have it.
trynumber9 5y ago
>territory/country How telling.
kube-system 5y ago
Isolating yourself from the world's largest economy isn't a winning economic policy.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  > Isolating yourself from the world's largest economy isn't a winning economic policy. If you're saying that Taiwan is isolating itself from China, then you are very wrong. Taiwan and China's economies are very intertwined. Taiwanese companies have had a large hand in the economic growth of China during the past generation. It's a good reminder that countries can do quite well working with one another even if they're rivals. Hopefully this reality keeps hostilities in check.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I'm not saying that -- I'm responding to: >_countries_ (not even territories!) that have tried to 'stand up' to the USA, you only see a trail of immiseration and coup d'état. I think the situation demonstrates that China needs Taiwan more than the US needs Cuba.
CogitoCogito 5y ago
Taiwan (ROC) has been a separate country on the doorstep of China (PRC) for more than 70 years. This status quo could certainly continue another 70 years. This status quo could even outlast the PRC government. I think the conclusion you should draw from this is the obvious one: China is not all powerful.
- riffic 5y ago
  by "separate country", Taiwan is governed by a group that believes it is the true government of China in exile. It might be helpful to be clear about this.
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    > by "separate country", Taiwan is governed by a group that believes it is the true government of China in exile. It might be helpful to be clear about this. The overlapping (though not equal) border claims by the ROC and the PRC don't change the fact that they are two separate countries. No clarity is required because it really isn't relevant. Border disputes between countries is entirely normal.
    - riffic 5y ago
      you're muddying the waters and it's absolutely relevant (History and historical context is always relevant). In 1949, the Republic of China retreated to the island of Taiwan and continues to this day to claim to be the government (in exile) of China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_the_government_of_the_Republic_of_China_to_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_the_government_of_t... This isn't a simple border dispute between separate countries. It's a governance dispute between two competing claims to a single country.
      - natded 5y ago
        This is pretty funny though, if I've understood this correctly. People in the West always seem to think that a properly democratic government made by the chinese people (be it those in Taiwan or those in China) would be "peaceful", but to me if I look at a map and observe the lands Taiwan claims for herself, it seems quite a lot (if they do actually claim the rights to governing the China-China too, and not just Taiwan the Island)
rectang 5y ago
This is pure, distilled whataboutism.

moogleii 5y ago

Curious, why do they describe her as a technocrat when her background is in law?

mrec 5y ago
"Technocrat" doesn't necessarily imply "technologist". It's like the more colloquial "wonk", i.e. someone who's more interested in the minutiae of policy rather than party affiliation or personal aggrandizement. Offtopic: dear god that article is a design trainwreck. I don't think I've ever been more thankful for Firefox's reader view.
- kodah 5y ago
  I thought it usually implies a Subject Matter Expert, rather than someone who dabbled too much in policy

jetsetgo 5y ago

[dead]

mrobot 5y ago

The constant onslaught of US "news" drumming up war on China and Russia is very scary. The production value of this site and the detail of its design are a problem. Reuters is a problem. This is indeed war propaganda. I do think the United States is on the offensive in this "cold war", and they they want it to be hot. United States foreign policy has historically been, let's say, less than helpful. I really do not believe China is a threat to the world. What exactly is there to stand up to? Why not cooperate with China for mutual good? I believe Chinese leadership when they say all they want is a more multilateral world. US simply can't stop being world hegemon. Looking at the way people post both on this site and on Reddit about China, it's all same old Yellow Peril racism if you ask me. Really getting sick and tired of everyone just uncritically taking in US war propaganda and jumping on the war wagon.

yumraj 5y ago
> I really do not believe China is a threat to the world. Tibetans, Uighars, HKers and citizens of almost all the countries that share a land or sea border with China will disagree with you. And so will all the countries, such as Lithuania, and private companies who have been forced to toe CCP line. I can keep going on…
zepto 5y ago
The build up of troops on the border of Ukraine, and the Chinese military incursions into Taiwan’s airspace have not been drummed up by the US news.
- juanani 5y ago
- justicezyx 5y ago
  So first, Taiwan is not sovereign nation. Under international law, Taiwan and mainland is one nation. So there is no such concept of Taiwan airspace per international law. And, the so-called incursion is to Taiwan's air defence identification zone. That zone covers majority of Fujian province. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(East_China_Sea) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Z... Literally, mainlanders are intrusion Taiwan adiz constantly. That's how ridiculous the western media repotting has been nowadays. They'll refuse to even acknowledge an obviously physically impossible situation, and blame on China...

star-trek-fleet 5y ago

Ms. Tsai is a skillful politician. Her success primarily lies on the adoption and the adept use of identity politics in Taiwan. Despite a long history of national linkage with mainland China, Taiwan, under the colonization and brutal cultural and economic transformation by Japan invasion in the early 20 century till the end of WWII, have gone through a heart breaking separation from the homeland. Ms. Tsai, just like her mentor, Mr. Lee Teng-hui are heavily influenced by liberal Democratic political ideology, and refined that with a modern form that is closer to western worlds. Mr. Lee Teng-hui represents a more Japanese heritage. And because of his disillusioned passion for communism, Lee had been a communist, and got bullied by KMT after the retreat. Ms. Tsai led a whirlwind of political ascension through labeling "本省人” “外省人” political identities. Where she also mastered the online propaganda toolings eg the 1450 army (https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%E6%89%8B https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%...). Mrs. Tsai's domestic policy heavily rely on trade economic value for political ties like importing US pork with additive that are known to have harm to human https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%E6%89%8B https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B6%B2%E7%B5%A1%E6%89%93%... And cultivation of national pride to distance the Taiwan island from mainland, and make the island more prestigious and similar to a national body. Like the so-called "advanced vaccine" by Taiwan's own Rd center https://www.dw.com/zh/%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E5%BC%80%E6%89%93%E8%87%AA%E4%BA%A7%E9%AB%98%E7%AB%AF%E7%96%AB%E8%8B%97-%E6%9C%AA%E5%AE%8C%E6%88%90%E4%B8%89%E6%9C%9F%E8%AF%95%E9%AA%8C%E5%BC%95%E4%BA%89%E8%AE%BA/a-58893881 https://www.dw.com/zh/%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E5%BC%80%E6%89%93%E... these vaccines are rushed to public without adequate testing, and caused higher than usual death. Ms. Tsai obviously has no adherence to the international law that recognize Taiwan as a part of China. And many Taiwan politicians are fearful of joining China for historical reasons. They even rejected Jiang Zeming's offer to retain it's own military and civil government, by just recognizing formally the CCP led central government, literally a federated nation. Unfortunately, Taiwan's cultural linkage to China is weak. And the mainland is gearing towards a coercive reunification in some form that is appropriate to China's economic and political consideration. I.e., If China continue to grow and surpass US in all major aspects of national strength, Taiwan can keep this state indefinitely, as China does not really care that much when it becomes a more powerful US. But US won't allow that, global hegemony is a zero sum game, the loss of that status will destroy US financial industry, for an example of the consequence. And Taiwan for her self proclaimed high vision of independence, is heading into a dead end. As a weakening China will be more hostile to the island, Taiwan, in its own pursuit of some potlical value, will bring ruin to the island, probably bundled with significant damage to the mainland. Meanwhile, US would righteously declare the victory of democracy, and say nothing about the human suffering in the conflict, and exploit the economic loot afterwards. In the end, I'll support the growth of China in all aspects of national power. Hopefully a better version of US can born from that. I'll do my best to influence the Western audience about the more complicated aspect of Taiwan issue, to broaden their view about alternatives than just the black and white democracy vs xxxx (authoritarian dictatorship swap any of your favorite words on China). The US led world order is simply not going to sustain, everyone needs to understand not only US cannot make an example of the right and good, US no longer have the means other than destruction in shaping other nations' fate.

natded 5y ago

The Taiwanese leader is hardly "standing up" to China. China's calculus of attacking Taiwan is probably a more global in scale: for example US submarines can end the maritime traffic in South China Sea completely at any given point.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
SCS is not conducive to submarine operations, which is why China wants to monopolize it so badly. Otherwise, they are completely hemmed in by Korea, Russia, Japan, Taiwan. Unfettered sea access for trade or military reasons is seen as very important, right now it is easy to cut China off (and Russia is still considered a frenemy despite how relations have improved in the last 20 years).

rectang 5y ago

> "With their lives, blood and tears, the young people in Hong Kong have demonstrated for us that one country, two systems is not feasible," Tsai said. The saga of Hong Kong is so sad. They didn't take their freedom for granted, they struggled mightily, but ultimately they have been crushed. The lesson for Taiwan could not be more stark. I can see why Tsai said this, and why she has received such support from the Taiwanese people in response. It is hard to stand up to the CCP. If an individual with Chinese ties did so on a forum such as HN, doubtless they would be reported by omnipresent loyalists monitoring these exchanges, just as the students were at various US universities. https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china-cracks-down-on-students-who-speak-out https://www.propublica.org/article/even-on-us-campuses-china...

ssss11 5y ago
Not just US universities - those stories have been widely reported in Australia too. I’d expect it’s happening everywhere…
- mmerlin 5y ago
  Add the large numbers of Left and Right politicians (both Labour and Liberal) happy to sell their soul and lawmaking abilities for corrupt bags of dirty money from Chinese Communist Party / Mining / Gambling / Property Developers. Vote all these old geezers out! The major political parties in Australia are by and large a cesspit of spineless sellouts. Vote for the smaller independent parties, especially those with younger candidates. Drew Pavlou's party for example (with some Uyghur-Australians). https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-15/drew-pavlou-democratic-alliance-political-party-uyghur-hong-kong/100700918 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-15/drew-pavlou-democrati... Donate funds to these truth seekers if you can...
ngcc_hk 5y ago
The game is asymmetric. Hongkonger cannot fight back with all guns with chinese hands. Look at many countries and firms (say intel lately), Taiwan is still in danger as we are not sure any real consequences once the Dist settled down. And how many insiders are there. In Taiwan. Just … we can hope in a not so hopeful scenario.

akimball 5y ago

If I was running defense for Taiwan I would have had small nukes forward placed in the major PRC power nexii for the last twenty years.

known 5y ago