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What about the idea that, as a customer who bought and owns something, you should have control over that thing, not the other way around? I am not saying this

What about the idea that, as a customer who bought and owns something, you should have control over that thing, not the other way around? I am not saying this is the stronger argument. It's still an argument, though, and it surprised me to find this sentiment missing from the comments (granted, we're at only 7 comments right now). Why would something we want applied to smartphones and PCs not apply to cars?

userbinator 5y ago
I am in complete agreement, but it seems Tesla is strongly pushing for a model where you don't actually own it.
DSingularity 5y ago
… because it’s really hard for me to misuse my smartphone to the point where it kills someone/myself.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Actually, smartphones are a pretty significant cause of death, but when people are using them while driving. For Apple iPhone, for example, you just have to assert that you aren't driving to use it while driving (assuming the iPhone could be used by a passenger instead, so they can't really tell).
  - teawrecks 5y ago
    Yeah, that's why doing so is illegal.
jeroenhd 5y ago
The difference is that it's very hard to accidentally kill a family by messing with your PC or smartphone, assuming you're not doing it while driving. Your own safety is your own responsibility and if you want to try for a Darwin award you should be allowed to, but you're not the likely victim of something goes wrong. Cars are inherently dangerous, mostly to the people around you. Modern car safety makes sure you can practically drive into a wall and come out fine, but any people you might hit on the way won't share your fate. You should have control over the stuff you buy, but to use that stuff on public roads you'll have to get it certified for safety. If you want to build your own race track to play video games on, be my guest, but keep your mods off the streets.
- userbinator 5y ago
  On behalf of the entire aftermarket and performance tuning community: "fuck you". We have minimum requirements for licensing, but otherwise we still have the freedom. Of course you are still liable for any damages caused, but that's called personal responsibility.
  - PraetorianGourd 5y ago
    I’m no prude around cursing but let’s keep it civil. “I disagree and here is why” is way more effective than “fuck you and here is why”. The OP, and many people, probably just ignored your second paragraph because of the first.
  - millimeterman 5y ago
    There are plenty of aftermarket mods and tuning that are perfectly road legal. And if for some reason you need to stray outside those, I figure you can afford to keep a dedicated track car around. "Personal responsibility" doesn't work when your lack of responsibility puts other people at risk. Also, I'm pretty sure most people don't care one bit what that community wants. When I hear "aftermarket and performance tuning", I think of idiots street racing, overly aggressive drivers, and obnoxiously loud cars. (I don't care if it's a straightpiped Civic or a freaking LFA, it's still obnoxious for everyone not driving the car.) Not exactly what most people want on public roads.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > There are plenty of aftermarket mods and tuning that are perfectly road legal. There sure are, but the idea of getting tweaks certified would be a big change.
      - millimeterman 5y ago
        That sounds like a pretty good change to me. Modifying a several ton death machine sounds like the kind of thing that should require certification.
teawrecks 5y ago
No one cares what you do in your car when it's in your driveway. The issue is doing unsafe things while on a public owned and regulated road. Same reason you can't just drive any vehicle on the road, or use just any parts. They have to be road legal.
- burrows 5y ago
  Just put it to a vote, “Who thinks we should be able to use our phones, eat hamburgers and readjust our balls while driving? Okay, yup. And the nays?” This is a democracy people.
koonsolo 5y ago
Sure, you own your car, so do whatever you want with it. But the government owns the roads, so the same applies to them. If they say you can't drive and game... you can't drive and game. And let's be fair here, you buy a car to drive on public roads.
0-_-0 5y ago
How do you feel about the enforcement of the use of safety belts?

userbinator 5y ago

I am in complete agreement, but it seems Tesla is strongly pushing for a model where you don't actually own it.

DSingularity 5y ago

… because it’s really hard for me to misuse my smartphone to the point where it kills someone/myself.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Actually, smartphones are a pretty significant cause of death, but when people are using them while driving. For Apple iPhone, for example, you just have to assert that you aren't driving to use it while driving (assuming the iPhone could be used by a passenger instead, so they can't really tell).
- teawrecks 5y ago
  Yeah, that's why doing so is illegal.

jeroenhd 5y ago

The difference is that it's very hard to accidentally kill a family by messing with your PC or smartphone, assuming you're not doing it while driving. Your own safety is your own responsibility and if you want to try for a Darwin award you should be allowed to, but you're not the likely victim of something goes wrong. Cars are inherently dangerous, mostly to the people around you. Modern car safety makes sure you can practically drive into a wall and come out fine, but any people you might hit on the way won't share your fate. You should have control over the stuff you buy, but to use that stuff on public roads you'll have to get it certified for safety. If you want to build your own race track to play video games on, be my guest, but keep your mods off the streets.

userbinator 5y ago
On behalf of the entire aftermarket and performance tuning community: "fuck you". We have minimum requirements for licensing, but otherwise we still have the freedom. Of course you are still liable for any damages caused, but that's called personal responsibility.
- PraetorianGourd 5y ago
  I’m no prude around cursing but let’s keep it civil. “I disagree and here is why” is way more effective than “fuck you and here is why”. The OP, and many people, probably just ignored your second paragraph because of the first.
- millimeterman 5y ago
  There are plenty of aftermarket mods and tuning that are perfectly road legal. And if for some reason you need to stray outside those, I figure you can afford to keep a dedicated track car around. "Personal responsibility" doesn't work when your lack of responsibility puts other people at risk. Also, I'm pretty sure most people don't care one bit what that community wants. When I hear "aftermarket and performance tuning", I think of idiots street racing, overly aggressive drivers, and obnoxiously loud cars. (I don't care if it's a straightpiped Civic or a freaking LFA, it's still obnoxious for everyone not driving the car.) Not exactly what most people want on public roads.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > There are plenty of aftermarket mods and tuning that are perfectly road legal. There sure are, but the idea of getting tweaks certified would be a big change.
    - millimeterman 5y ago
      That sounds like a pretty good change to me. Modifying a several ton death machine sounds like the kind of thing that should require certification.

teawrecks 5y ago

No one cares what you do in your car when it's in your driveway. The issue is doing unsafe things while on a public owned and regulated road. Same reason you can't just drive any vehicle on the road, or use just any parts. They have to be road legal.

burrows 5y ago
Just put it to a vote, “Who thinks we should be able to use our phones, eat hamburgers and readjust our balls while driving? Okay, yup. And the nays?” This is a democracy people.

koonsolo 5y ago

Sure, you own your car, so do whatever you want with it. But the government owns the roads, so the same applies to them. If they say you can't drive and game... you can't drive and game. And let's be fair here, you buy a car to drive on public roads.

0-_-0 5y ago

How do you feel about the enforcement of the use of safety belts?