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Imagine living somewhere like China and not liking it. It would be hellish, you couldn’t even talk about it without a police visit or your boss passing trouble
by gentleman11 5y ago
Imagine living somewhere like China and not liking it. It would be hellish, you couldn’t even talk about it without a police visit or your boss passing trouble along to you. A giant human spirit grinder
- echelon 5y ago
- boznz 5y agoSame in Europe and Australasia but without the guns.
- will4274 5y agoAnd the free press, if we're talking about Australia. It doesn't count if one billionaire owns it all. Or being forcibly drafted by your government to spy on your employer.
- jessaustin 5y agoWhile Assange is not free, neither USA nor Australia have any credibility with respect to a free press.
- FridayoLeary 5y agoI think it's called American Exceptionalism. But i do agree that America is not bad, that's probably because they never managed to completely shake off their British roots.(before you downvote me that was a joke). I sometimes wonder if the main consequence of the Rebellion is that they have George Washintons face on their money instead of the Queen.
- gerdesj 5y agoDon't be soft, the USA is way, way more complicated than simply "British roots". All that throwing off the shackles of imperial rule is sort of true but mostly bollocks (that's how you invite a major DV frenzy!) Presumably the portrait of George W that is on the note is from post revolution ie mid 1770s otherwise there is a depiction of a British citizen on rather a lot of greenbacks.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Presumably the portrait of George W that is on the note is from post revolution ie mid 1770s It is from 1796.
- gerdesj 5y agoAhh, so from the terrorist/traitor part of his life 8)
- hunterb123 5y ago> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
- dragonwriter 5y agoWouldn't that be roughly 1775-1781?
- baby 5y agoThe Americans really love their guns don't they
- hunterb123 5y agoWe'd be Brits otherwise.
- nebula8804 5y ago~60% of Americans don't own a gun. Just 3% of American adults own a collective 133m firearms out of a supposed 265m.
- baby 5y agoYet every time there's a subject about guns on reddit or HN comments are overwhelmingly pro-guns.
- will4274 5y agoSome substantial portion of Americans poll as not owning guns but being glad their neighbors do. The reasons vary, deterring criminals and/or state authority often appearing. It's not surprising that some of these people use reddit and HN.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago> Some substantial portion of Americans poll as not owning guns but being glad their neighbors do. The reasons vary, deterring criminals often appearing. It's not surprising that some of these people use reddit and HN. I've heard this said often, but people who I've heard saying this have never offered up an actual poll to back this supposed sentiment up. Surely there must be at least a Rasmussen poll (that tilts heavily conservative) that backs claims like this up with numbers?
- will4274 5y agoSure https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/gun_control/americans_prefer_living_in_neighborhoods_with_guns https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/cur...
- bgroat 5y agoI'm a Canadian, but I often watch American rallies on the news. I always laugh when some American protestors say they're being oppressed/the current regime is fascistic. I mean, you're gathered, in a crowd, often armed, with your message being broadcast, with a reasonable expectation (I know, I know, not always - especially for certain demographics) of going home/surviving. I'm not sure they really understand what fascism is EDIT: I'm completely supportive of gathering/protesting. But be clear that you're protesting particular, discrete issues. And probably not fascism in the general sense.
- seibelj 5y agoI'm happy when people are motivated to protest, regardless of the issue or political affiliation. Better than just taking it on the chin, over and over, slowly boiling as politicians make things worse.
- bgroat 5y agoI'm going to edit my parent comment for more context, because I realize my initial comment was unclear
- nitrogen 5y agoThe existence of worse problems does not make other problems go away. It's reasonable and desirable to strive for a better future no matter how good the present is.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- er4hn 5y ago> Americans can say anything, even if it's proudly proclaiming "fuck [current politician]" as the joke goes: The American says: ''I can walk in front of the White House and shout 'Down with Reagan,' and nothing will happen to me.'' The Russian retorts: ''I can walk in front of the Kremlin and yell 'Down with Reagan,' too, and nothing will happen to me, either.''
- baby 5y ago> and defend their home with a gun that policy has had quite the downsides on people's lives
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- commandlinefan 5y ago> Americans can say anything Well, less so these days than 20 or even 10 years ago - the suppression just doesn't come from the government now. There are a lot of things you really can't say in America and there are a lot more of them than there used to be.
- dnautics 5y agothat's an entirely fair criticism, but peer-led opinion suppression is via taboo and taboos are transient and organically go through cultural waves -- have been for centuries. When a state starts doing it it usually requires catastrophic change that, maybe if you're lucky, won't hurt too many people -- but it's almost always painful, and sudden.
- nebula8804 5y ago>America isn't perfect, but it's pretty damned good. And this is because of generations who got blasted for fighting against the current norms at the time. Whether it was fighting against slave holders or during times like the civil rights era when the southerners were willing to make some compromises but in regards to full civil rights they pushed back and said "lets not move too fast on this, its too much change too quickly". No, it took the real brave people who were that generations extremists to drag the country kicking and screaming in to the future. Even then the rebels were only successful because of circumstances beyond their control (eg. JFK assassination paved the way for pushing the civil rights bill through). So yeah you seem to be implying that the Americans whining and complaining today should look at places like China and see how good they have it(the standard right wing trope displayed on places like the Joe Rogan podcast) however you fail to see how this messy process that unfortunately involves things like wokeism, BLM and this constant extreme push for other real progressive causes will hopefully eventually lead to an America that the next generation can say with more confidence that "America isn't perfect, but it's pretty damned good."
- trasz 5y agoAmericans are allowed to say anything, because it doesn't matter. In the end all you can do is to choose between two largely identical parties.
- dang 5y agoPlease stop posting this sort of generic flamewar dross to HN. I realize you mean well, but you do this so often that I've started to wince when I see your username. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28793135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28793135 (Oct 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28226812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28226812 (Aug 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27280089 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27280089 (May 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25994722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25994722 (Feb 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25994701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25994701 (Feb 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25709648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25709648 (Jan 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25585980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25585980 (Dec 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25389847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25389847 (Dec 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22629858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22629858 (March 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263891 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22263891 (Feb 2020) This is seriously not cool. If you keep ignoring the intended use of this site, we're not going to have any choice left but to ban you, much as I don't want to. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- spoonjim 5y agoYou are confusing China with North Korea.
- 88840-8855 5y ago
- mensetmanusman 5y agoMy Chinese colleague was randomly walking by a protest in his city recently. He didn’t even know there was a protest nearby until he was ‘visited’ all day by police and had to sing the praises of the ccp.
- tiahura 5y ago“as long as my shit city in germany is planning a 10km subway line for 15 years already … while china is builing the best infrastructure in the world, i will prefer the chinese system.” And people wonder how Hitler came to power in Germany.
- 88840-8855 5y agoedit
- mensetmanusman 5y agoThe air gets better because they shut down the pm2.5 sensors:) China is turning on more coal plants and sacrificing their lungs to build gadgets for the world. It’s sad in a way.
- Swizec 5y agoI haven’t been to China but I grew up in post communist Europe. A concept unfamiliar to westerners are “open secrets”. Things that everyone knows, everyone talks about with each other, and never get mentioned in any official capacity. If someone asks with a camera, the answer is whatever it needs to be. If an official asks in the line of duty, the answer is the correct answer. If the same person asks as a friend 3 hours later, you both talk shit. Kinda like schoolyard rules. We can be fighting to the death to the death but if a teacher asks, we’re best friends having fun together.
- 5y ago
- dools 5y agoHave you watched any of the interviews conducted on the street in China on the Asian Boss YouTube channel?
- tablespoon 5y ago> Have you watched any of the interviews conducted on the street in China on the Asian Boss YouTube channel? Why should anyone care about "man on the street" interviews on some Youtube channel? I mean, it's not like someone in a repressive country is going to open up with all their complaints about their repressive government to some rando with a camera. Plus, Youtube is easy to manipulate (in some ways) if you have the resources of a government: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/13/technology/china-propaganda-youtube-influencers.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/13/technology/ch....
- AnimalMuppet 5y agoTrue. But you also just made the assertion un-falsifiable.
- tablespoon 5y ago> True. But you also just made the assertion un-falsifiable. How so? Even if a quiet dissident won't open up to some obnoxious youtuber creating content, they may express their true feelings in other ways. My main point is you have to be pretty careful with what you "learn" from Youtube, and "have you seen this rando youtuber" (with the implication they should change your mind) is not a very strong response.
- dools 5y agoBut people do open up with their criticisms of various government policies to some rando with a camera. That's my point. Also Asian Boss is a channel run from outside China that does similar interviews in a range of different countries.
- Lhiw 5y ago
- synergy20 5y agoThis did not get to the bottom, the police will visit all your family members actually. You will simply give up and shut up as the cops will harass/threaten your family members. It's a common practice for many years and it's getting 10X worse under Xi, who is said to be the designer of "Culture Revolution 2.0" these days, who already painted every other countries(especially USA) to be enemies(except for North Korea, Russia, Iran and Taliban).
- akomtu 5y agoOn a related note, we have here in the US a sudden wave of "culture revolution 3.0" with its proponents using the very same tactics. It's well known that Xi is preparing to enter the chip manufacturing business in 10 years, and since US is the only real opponent, Xi wisely chose to disarm us with the adapted version of "culture revolution". For this reason, I believe, he'll massively increase investments in pushing this movement in the coming years.
- nfkrk8j 5y ago
- baybal2 5y agoMost people going to China to make money don't come there wearing pink glasses. It's a Faustian bargain. Eat your soul for money, and an opportunity to run a factory without being sued by everybody on the day 1. The remaining minority is unfortunately a big problem, and higher up on the status ladder the bigger. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/china-s-president-xi-jinping-turns-down-mark-zuckerberg-s-request-to-name-his-unborn-child-at-white-house-dinner-a6679156.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/china-s-president-... Such people come with real delusions. Either delusions of grandeur, or delusions of being so smart that they think they will trick communists, people who grew giving their whole lives to intrigue, and insane political culture which makes GOP look like kindergarteners. The worst kind are ones who come there with genuine believe, and gravity towards fascism. A foul wish for "an orderly society" where they think they will be made into elites https://beyondinfinity.com.au/project-dragonfly-is-google-helping-chinese-censorship/ https://beyondinfinity.com.au/project-dragonfly-is-google-he... I call both types "ones stupid enough to survive." Were they not, they would've been crushed long ago.
- manuel_w 5y ago> that they think they will trick communists, people who grew giving their whole lives to intrigue Please don't do that here.
- baybal2 5y agoWhy?
- manuel_w 5y agoBecause we enjoy HN as one of the few places on the internet where meaningful discussion can still occur, which is what comments like yours ("communists grow giving their whole lives to intrigue") undermine. The world is a lot more nuanced.
- baybal2 5y agoThere is nothing nuanced about what mafia-like organisations, which includes communist parties, turn to. They consume their members with life of fear, and strife. One wrong word to the boss, or something allowing others to set you up, and you are killed. It's cutthroat, it's one sided, and is exactly as boringly simple as the history textbook tells. I lived in communist hellholes for 18 years of my life, and I will not be entertaining a wish of people wanting to rewrite these textbooks to say that black is white. It's a bad tendency I see more, and more: people drawing nuance when there is none, for a want of being "nuanced," "sophisticated," "succinct"
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoPlenty people who have lived under communist regimes can tell you a lot what it feels like. In a way, you learn to live with it. You can talk about it with your family, your close friends. But not with colleagues - as you can't be certain who is and who isn't a spy. You need to be careful not to get involved in any provocation. If you have kids, you need to be extra careful - also about them. When you think about it, it's a bit tragic: normally you worry about your kid taking crack, but you'll probably notice that. But in a totalitarian regime, your kid can go to jail not for dealing drugs, but for being a sensitive, honest individual, naively believing they can change their country to be a better place. But most of the time it's not jail but things like being expelled from the university, losing your job (and not being able to find a new one), and similar forms of harassment to your family. But deaths were not uncommon, even after the Stalinist regime ended.
- avsteele 5y agoThis is very well written. Thank you. Did you live under such a regime yourself?
- baby 5y agoI'm sometimes thinking about the bigger picture, and wondering what will happen in hundreds of years? Will Western country end up more and more divided, and will China become more and more united and like-minded? One variable that seems to indicate to the contrary is that transparency is a huge factor in allowing a society to improve itself, and China is becoming more and more opaque.
- dnautics 5y agoImagine living somewhere like China where it's gotten to the bad state it is in now - when 5-6 years ago there was a real trajectory away from where it is now, and the world (including myself) was cheering on China.
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- atomicity 5y agoI've never understood why people support the escalating US-China conflict since it's so easy to just keep focusing on win-win collaborations but your comment gave me an insight. Please let me know if this is wrong, but I think this is the argument: 1. The US is a better leader than China because it is a significantly better place. Notable US problems that cause lots of suffering are significantly less severe than notable Chinese problems. 2. As a result, the US government should put a lot of effort into making sure that China doesn't become too powerful. It is ok for the US to publish articles that are less reliable than those on Iraq WMDs because if China becomes too powerful, the world will be far worse. In particular, China should not become powerful enough to project its values on other countries as much as the US does. China also should not be able to non-democratically reform international, democratically-decided rules such as International Maritime Law. For most people in the US, it would take heaps of evidence and learning could to even make them doubt that US might not be a significantly better place than China (Note that I'm not arguing that the US is not far better). On the other hand, many people in China doubt that the US is significantly better as China because of how much better they see their life compared to the past. So, they don't understand why people in the US are confident about their conflict against China. I personally can't buy into this argument though because I lack the confidence in my personal philosophy to know what a "better life" truly is. However, many people in the US have a more stable philosophical foundation and could never be convinced that the US is not a significantly better place than China.
- ravel-bar-foo 5y ago> On the other hand, many people in China doubt that the US is significantly better as China because of how much better they see their life compared to the past. So, they don't understand why people in the US are confident about their conflict against China. Are you refering to military conflict? My guess would be that the Chinese people are very misled about the military prowess of their country. It seems like a weekly occurrence that a PRC military propaganda video is shown to actually use footage of foreign military exercises. On the other hand, the US military (one might argue government as a whole) seems to be slipping in basic competencies. The navy has had three very public ship navigation errors in four years, and continues to be absolutely clueless about drones. ("UFOs") The air force has a new fighter which is still not functioning at design capabilities, and the withdrawl from Afghanistan was less organized than the 1970s withdrawl from Saigon. At least in the US the failures are public and might inspire change.
- amelius 5y ago> Imagine living somewhere like China and not liking it Imagine living somewhere in the West, and not liking Facebook. > A giant human spirit grinder Yes, you could call it that.