4 ms·

Have you ever taken a 30 minute bike ride over ice-and-snow-covered roads, in -20C temperatures, in the dark, on roads with no street lights or sidewalks (the s

Have you ever taken a 30 minute bike ride over ice-and-snow-covered roads, in -20C temperatures, in the dark, on roads with no street lights or sidewalks (the sun sets at 2:00pm)? If so, good for you, you rugged badass! But I’m not sure we need to force everybody to do the same.

kuschku 5y ago
I think it's not that bad, I've done similar in the past and still cycle everywhere, no mtter the weather. Just get a good bicycle light (B&M have some dynamo powered 80lux or 100lux lights) and then it's easily possible.
- Gravityloss 5y ago
  Country roads might be ok for biking, even in winter with the right equipment (clothes, spike tires) but there can be roads with 100 km/h traffic and very narrow shoulders. And the flying sleet and salt etc... Sure, there are quite many bike roads and side roads but not available everywhere. And there are some buses too. But again, since it's so sparse, buses are hard to make work. Taxis do work. Basically, some parts of the country are really "car country" - and it makes total sense there. One shouldn't try to shoehorn cars into city centers, I agree about that. This is something else.
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    And you want young teens driving in those conditions? Remember, these “tractors” are speed limited to a fraction of 100km/h too.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Gravityloss 5y ago
      Yes, much rather I'd have the teens driving "light cars" which are regular cars at 80 km/h in those conditions than for example flimsy moped cars. Cars have a tremendous amount of safety nowadays, and you get a lot of features for a little bit of money. We have excellent driver training, including training how to drive in slippery conditions, cars have regulation that they need automatic light leveling, there's yearly checkups for cars etc.
confidantlake 5y ago
I wouldn't want a teenager driving on ice and snow covered roads in the dark on roads with no street lights.
- sulam 5y ago
  That’s like saying you wouldn’t want a teenager driving in the city vs the suburb, or a freeway vs regular road. These are normal conditions in Sweden.
  - confidantlake 5y ago
    The grandparent was making out the roads to be incredibly dangerous, that you couldn't possibly ride a bike on them. (Dark, ice covered, no street lamps!). If they are really so dangerous that you can't ride a bike on them then they are too dangerous for a teenager to be driving on.
    - waspight 5y ago
      There is a large difference between using a bike on icy roads covered in snow and using a car on the same road.
    - fogihujy 5y ago
      So, lock the kids up during winter? Where I live, the roads are barely walkable during winter. Public transport is 8km away. Cars with proper winter tires is far easier to keep steady, than a bike. Especially if windy. Most teens out here drive tractors to get around. Personally, I'd prefer if Finland went the Swedish route here - an old Volvo with limited speed is still less dangerous than a large tractor.
    - european321 5y ago
      Haha, ever heard of winter tires? Or winter driving instruction courses? Which btw are mandatory at least in Finland
      - 5y ago
null_object 5y ago
> Have you ever taken a 30 minute bike ride over ice-and-snow-covered roads, in -20C temperatures, in the dark, on roads with no street lights or sidewalks (the sun sets at 2:00pm)? This is exactly the circular problem that everyone in Sweden always points at: the roads are too dangerous and poorly developed for people to cycle on safely - therefore the answer is... more cars driving unsafely on the roads, making them too dangerous for cyclists. It's a car-culture here. Nothing will ever happen to change that. Incidentally, anyone romanticizing this as some sort of grassroots, badass rebellious movement should bear in mind that around big cities like Stockholm, parents buy their teenage kids Porsches to be converted to EPA-traktors.[0] [0] https://www.dn.se/sthlm/han-kor-porsche-i-30-kilometer-i-timmen/ https://www.dn.se/sthlm/han-kor-porsche-i-30-kilometer-i-tim...

kuschku 5y ago

I think it's not that bad, I've done similar in the past and still cycle everywhere, no mtter the weather. Just get a good bicycle light (B&M have some dynamo powered 80lux or 100lux lights) and then it's easily possible.

Gravityloss 5y ago
Country roads might be ok for biking, even in winter with the right equipment (clothes, spike tires) but there can be roads with 100 km/h traffic and very narrow shoulders. And the flying sleet and salt etc... Sure, there are quite many bike roads and side roads but not available everywhere. And there are some buses too. But again, since it's so sparse, buses are hard to make work. Taxis do work. Basically, some parts of the country are really "car country" - and it makes total sense there. One shouldn't try to shoehorn cars into city centers, I agree about that. This is something else.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  And you want young teens driving in those conditions? Remember, these “tractors” are speed limited to a fraction of 100km/h too.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Gravityloss 5y ago
    Yes, much rather I'd have the teens driving "light cars" which are regular cars at 80 km/h in those conditions than for example flimsy moped cars. Cars have a tremendous amount of safety nowadays, and you get a lot of features for a little bit of money. We have excellent driver training, including training how to drive in slippery conditions, cars have regulation that they need automatic light leveling, there's yearly checkups for cars etc.

confidantlake 5y ago

I wouldn't want a teenager driving on ice and snow covered roads in the dark on roads with no street lights.

sulam 5y ago
That’s like saying you wouldn’t want a teenager driving in the city vs the suburb, or a freeway vs regular road. These are normal conditions in Sweden.
- confidantlake 5y ago
  The grandparent was making out the roads to be incredibly dangerous, that you couldn't possibly ride a bike on them. (Dark, ice covered, no street lamps!). If they are really so dangerous that you can't ride a bike on them then they are too dangerous for a teenager to be driving on.
  - waspight 5y ago
    There is a large difference between using a bike on icy roads covered in snow and using a car on the same road.
  - fogihujy 5y ago
    So, lock the kids up during winter? Where I live, the roads are barely walkable during winter. Public transport is 8km away. Cars with proper winter tires is far easier to keep steady, than a bike. Especially if windy. Most teens out here drive tractors to get around. Personally, I'd prefer if Finland went the Swedish route here - an old Volvo with limited speed is still less dangerous than a large tractor.
  - european321 5y ago
    Haha, ever heard of winter tires? Or winter driving instruction courses? Which btw are mandatory at least in Finland
    - 5y ago

null_object 5y ago

> Have you ever taken a 30 minute bike ride over ice-and-snow-covered roads, in -20C temperatures, in the dark, on roads with no street lights or sidewalks (the sun sets at 2:00pm)? This is exactly the circular problem that everyone in Sweden always points at: the roads are too dangerous and poorly developed for people to cycle on safely - therefore the answer is... more cars driving unsafely on the roads, making them too dangerous for cyclists. It's a car-culture here. Nothing will ever happen to change that. Incidentally, anyone romanticizing this as some sort of grassroots, badass rebellious movement should bear in mind that around big cities like Stockholm, parents buy their teenage kids Porsches to be converted to EPA-traktors.[0] [0] https://www.dn.se/sthlm/han-kor-porsche-i-30-kilometer-i-timmen/ https://www.dn.se/sthlm/han-kor-porsche-i-30-kilometer-i-tim...