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I don't live in Sweden, but in Northern Norway and go to Umeå, Skellefteå, Luleå etc a lot, and I have to agree that these are actually an absolute menace. I a

I don't live in Sweden, but in Northern Norway and go to Umeå, Skellefteå, Luleå etc a lot, and I have to agree that these are actually an absolute menace. I am personally a car person and absolutely love the idea of an EPA in general but I've seen both crashes from them going dangerously slow (30kph on E4an, a motorway where everyone does 120-150kph) and also 250-300kph trying to outrun the police because it's a 15 year old that panics when they see the police because they were going slightly over 30kph, and conclude that flooring their overtuned Volvo 740 and escaping the police is the only thing they can try to not get a license suspension when they become 18.

hrnnnnnn 5y ago
In the UK I'm pretty sure you'd get pulled over by the police for doing 30kph on the motorway, it's reckless driving and you're putting yourself and others in danger.
- vodkapump 5y ago
  It is definitely not legal, but does happen very occasionally. The issue is that 15 year olds are just that, 15 year old kids.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    How come 16 year old kids can drive just fine in the US?
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      They can't. Teens have a far higher rate of crashing than any other age group with only over 80 even coming close. From the NSC >Sixteen- to 19-year-olds represent 3.9% of licensed drivers, but account for 8.6% of drivers in all crashes and 6.0% of drivers in fatal crashes. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-driver/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-dr...
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Huh, 1.5x fatalities is not as bad as I expected. Especially since those are the least experienced drivers. I wonder how 18-21 drivers look in countries with a higher age. Though one way to look at it is that a teen driver today is just as safe/dangerous as an average driver 20 years ago, much safer than an average driver 30 years ago, and over twice as safe as an average driver 40 years ago. At least as far as fatalities go.
        bjoli 5y ago
        They also drive a lot less less than the average driver.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.
        throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        The reporting rate for collisions has gone up which confounds that measurement Back in the day when costs were lower it was much more common to reconcile things without involving third parties and the legal requirements for max damage in low speed collisions were much more stringent.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        > Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Yes, that's my point. When cars are vastly safer, maybe it's not so bad to let moderately worse drivers be on the road. > You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past. Depends on what kind of safety you're worried about. Also I couldn't find any raw collision statistics.
        dncornholio 5y ago
    - croon 5y ago
      Maybe unpopular, but US drivers are in general really bad because the drivers tests are too easy and taken when you're younger. It's driven (no pun intended) by a culture around cars and driving being a right, without consideration for whether everyone should.
      - nivenkos 5y ago
        But driving in the US is much, much easier than most of Europe. Like a small city in Calfornia vs. Barcelona was a world of difference. The US has lots of wide, straight roads instead of the nightmare of one-way streets, bus lanes, bike lanes, mopeds and motorcycles etc. in Europe.
        MathCodeLove 5y ago
        Extremely true. I lived in Italy for 2 years and driving there was a nightmare, I feel as if I can easily conquer any road in the US now.
        Zak 5y ago
        As an American currently living in Europe, who has driven in almost every US state and over half the countries in the EU, I don't fully agree. Driving in the US may be easier in the sense of requiring less cognitive load most of the time, but that doesn't translate into lower risk. The challenges are different, but the probability of a fatal collision is higher in the US, whether per person or per vehicle, than in most EU countries. This doesn't surprise me, and it's not just due to driver training. Navigating small streets built before cars is very likely to lead to broken side mirrors and scratched paint, but not injury or death. Misusing a bus lane gets you angry honking and gesturing from bus drivers and maybe a ticket from the police, but not injured or killed. A low-speed car-on-moped collision is bad of course, but not as bad as a car on one of those wide, straight American roads running a red light at 60 MPH and crashing into your driver's door at a right angle. Here's a study with evidence that very wide lanes result in people driving faster and crashing more frequently, a particularly bad combination for safety. https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Streets_Accepted_Paper_for_CITE_Conference_Regina_2015_ https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Stree...
Toutouxc 5y ago
> 250-300kph trying to outrun the police ... overtuned Volvo 740 I find this hard to believe, a shoebox with wheels going that fast, even with the most powerful engine (2.0 L, 200 hp stock).
- CRConrad 5y ago
  The 740 was also available with the 2.7-liter PRV V6.
- vodkapump 5y ago
  I've seen plenty of the B230 motor (2.3L) tuned to high 500hp so that is definitely not a problem.
  - canbus 5y ago
    Viva la Redblock.
  - Toutouxc 5y ago
    You're right, it's a 2.3L engine and holy smokes, that thing with 500 hp sounds seriously scary. Like a rocket powered sled.
    - vodkapump 5y ago
      I've seen some extreme builds way past 500hp too, but those tend to be more show car type builds. You can actually quite reliably get 450-500hp out of a 2.3 redblock without even spending that much money, redblocks are notorious in tuning communities for this, almost like the 2JZ of Sweden
- Aeolun 5y ago
  I find this hard to believe for a different reason. Your average car becomes quite hard to control at 160kph ish (barring a completely straight stretch of road). I cannot see a 15 year old surviving any instance of going over 250kph, much less something described as ‘escaping from the police’.

hrnnnnnn 5y ago

In the UK I'm pretty sure you'd get pulled over by the police for doing 30kph on the motorway, it's reckless driving and you're putting yourself and others in danger.

vodkapump 5y ago
It is definitely not legal, but does happen very occasionally. The issue is that 15 year olds are just that, 15 year old kids.
- emteycz 5y ago
  How come 16 year old kids can drive just fine in the US?
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    They can't. Teens have a far higher rate of crashing than any other age group with only over 80 even coming close. From the NSC >Sixteen- to 19-year-olds represent 3.9% of licensed drivers, but account for 8.6% of drivers in all crashes and 6.0% of drivers in fatal crashes. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-driver/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-dr...
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Huh, 1.5x fatalities is not as bad as I expected. Especially since those are the least experienced drivers. I wonder how 18-21 drivers look in countries with a higher age. Though one way to look at it is that a teen driver today is just as safe/dangerous as an average driver 20 years ago, much safer than an average driver 30 years ago, and over twice as safe as an average driver 40 years ago. At least as far as fatalities go.
      - bjoli 5y ago
        They also drive a lot less less than the average driver.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.
        throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        The reporting rate for collisions has gone up which confounds that measurement Back in the day when costs were lower it was much more common to reconcile things without involving third parties and the legal requirements for max damage in low speed collisions were much more stringent.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        > Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Yes, that's my point. When cars are vastly safer, maybe it's not so bad to let moderately worse drivers be on the road. > You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past. Depends on what kind of safety you're worried about. Also I couldn't find any raw collision statistics.
        dncornholio 5y ago
  - croon 5y ago
    Maybe unpopular, but US drivers are in general really bad because the drivers tests are too easy and taken when you're younger. It's driven (no pun intended) by a culture around cars and driving being a right, without consideration for whether everyone should.
    - nivenkos 5y ago
      But driving in the US is much, much easier than most of Europe. Like a small city in Calfornia vs. Barcelona was a world of difference. The US has lots of wide, straight roads instead of the nightmare of one-way streets, bus lanes, bike lanes, mopeds and motorcycles etc. in Europe.
      - MathCodeLove 5y ago
        Extremely true. I lived in Italy for 2 years and driving there was a nightmare, I feel as if I can easily conquer any road in the US now.
      - Zak 5y ago
        As an American currently living in Europe, who has driven in almost every US state and over half the countries in the EU, I don't fully agree. Driving in the US may be easier in the sense of requiring less cognitive load most of the time, but that doesn't translate into lower risk. The challenges are different, but the probability of a fatal collision is higher in the US, whether per person or per vehicle, than in most EU countries. This doesn't surprise me, and it's not just due to driver training. Navigating small streets built before cars is very likely to lead to broken side mirrors and scratched paint, but not injury or death. Misusing a bus lane gets you angry honking and gesturing from bus drivers and maybe a ticket from the police, but not injured or killed. A low-speed car-on-moped collision is bad of course, but not as bad as a car on one of those wide, straight American roads running a red light at 60 MPH and crashing into your driver's door at a right angle. Here's a study with evidence that very wide lanes result in people driving faster and crashing more frequently, a particularly bad combination for safety. https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Streets_Accepted_Paper_for_CITE_Conference_Regina_2015_ https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Stree...

Toutouxc 5y ago

> 250-300kph trying to outrun the police ... overtuned Volvo 740 I find this hard to believe, a shoebox with wheels going that fast, even with the most powerful engine (2.0 L, 200 hp stock).

CRConrad 5y ago
The 740 was also available with the 2.7-liter PRV V6.
vodkapump 5y ago
I've seen plenty of the B230 motor (2.3L) tuned to high 500hp so that is definitely not a problem.
- canbus 5y ago
  Viva la Redblock.
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  You're right, it's a 2.3L engine and holy smokes, that thing with 500 hp sounds seriously scary. Like a rocket powered sled.
  - vodkapump 5y ago
    I've seen some extreme builds way past 500hp too, but those tend to be more show car type builds. You can actually quite reliably get 450-500hp out of a 2.3 redblock without even spending that much money, redblocks are notorious in tuning communities for this, almost like the 2JZ of Sweden
Aeolun 5y ago
I find this hard to believe for a different reason. Your average car becomes quite hard to control at 160kph ish (barring a completely straight stretch of road). I cannot see a 15 year old surviving any instance of going over 250kph, much less something described as ‘escaping from the police’.