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In Germany we now need to wait until the hospitals have capacity again to treat regular stuff like broken arm. So I presume lockdowns and/or covid rules will st

In Germany we now need to wait until the hospitals have capacity again to treat regular stuff like broken arm. So I presume lockdowns and/or covid rules will stay active until hospitalizations are down. Whether Omnicron causes lots of hospital cases by damaging more cells or by being highly infectious is secondary. The primary issue is that hospitals are too full.

BillyTheKing 5y ago
I just find it fascinating that a country like Germany with a very well developed health-care infrastructure and a comparatively well protected (vaccinated) population is seemingly facing larger pressure on its health-care system than the US.
- bsjks 5y ago
  Or you’ve been fed false data by certain groups that had an interest in making you believe healthcare in the US is much worse than it is.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    USA healthcare is great! You just need money to access it, and it’s not a very good value, since we spend almost twice as much of our GDP on it than Germany. Americans also on average don’t benefit from it as much, but that is just due to many not having then money to access it very well.
- smn1234 5y ago
  population density of Germany is comparable to that of the state of Maryland (from 2013 data). Can't really compare a single EU country to the entirety of the US
- hakre 5y ago
  It's a multiple decade long process to bleed and drain out health-care in Germany. No one working there finds this fascinating.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  The truth is we basically always had triages like this in every stronger flu season. Source: Ask people that went through emergency department in the last 10 years, you can randomly pick people. Covid is a serious disease and it does increase load. That will cause problems because the system was finely tuned to always be near to 100% workload in normal operation. That ICU beds were reduced with financial incentives! by the state no less just last summer is a complete joke.
scottndecker 5y ago
Dig deeper on this. At least in the US, a big part of "full hospitals" isn't sick people, but a lack of staff due to vaccination requirements and people quitting.
prohobo 5y ago
This argument has been addressed a couple weeks ago on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419276 The truth is that Germany's government is to blame for this problem in the first place; if you are losing infrastructure during a prolonged crisis instead of bolstering it, you are failing/losing/incompetent. To put restrictions on the population instead of addressing the problem might as well be criminal.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  That's entirely correct but doesn't change that the problem exists now.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  It doesn't follow from the problem or situation being unfair that there is no problem. For the last three days I have been seeing more and more bad faith or distorted arguments like this on HN regarding Covid. And way less comments from professional virologists or epidemiologists weighing in.
- fer 5y ago
  It's kind of tiring after 2 years. The same has been said of Spain, France or Italy, though they rank among the top countries in healthcare. While no country is perfect, and many governments made mistakes, you just can't fight an exponential problem (viral epidemic) with linear means (more hospitals). More beds doesn't help, you need the personnel, the training, and upkeep all of that when there's no pandemic. It's unfeasible. Without restrictions in place, and with the current omicron spread we're seeing, doubling hospital capacity magically, with doctors and nurses and ventilators, lasts you for an extra whooping 3 days. 10 times? You'll have around 10 days more before it collapses.
  - prohobo 5y ago
    What are you talking about? In WW2 Germany took over the majority of Europe in like 3 months. They completely transformed their industry towards their goals before anyone even lifted a finger. You're saying they can't mobilize themselves to solve this comparatively tiny problem now? They can't build a few dozen field hospitals for Covid patients with basic therapies, like providing oxygen, which is what the vast majority of those patients need? None of the Western European countries have the capability for this? Is this some kind of joke? This is not an exponential problem: it comes in waves. I'm sure you know what an exponential function looks like, and it's not visible here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ Field hospitals that stick around for a few months would be totally fine in handling this. That's what they're for. Is this tiring you? I don't really know what to say to that, except that it seems there's nothing anyone can say to change your mind.
carlivar 5y ago
That would make omicron a good thing if it pushes out Delta and has lower severity, right?

BillyTheKing 5y ago

I just find it fascinating that a country like Germany with a very well developed health-care infrastructure and a comparatively well protected (vaccinated) population is seemingly facing larger pressure on its health-care system than the US.

bsjks 5y ago
Or you’ve been fed false data by certain groups that had an interest in making you believe healthcare in the US is much worse than it is.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  USA healthcare is great! You just need money to access it, and it’s not a very good value, since we spend almost twice as much of our GDP on it than Germany. Americans also on average don’t benefit from it as much, but that is just due to many not having then money to access it very well.
smn1234 5y ago
population density of Germany is comparable to that of the state of Maryland (from 2013 data). Can't really compare a single EU country to the entirety of the US
hakre 5y ago
It's a multiple decade long process to bleed and drain out health-care in Germany. No one working there finds this fascinating.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
raxxorrax 5y ago
The truth is we basically always had triages like this in every stronger flu season. Source: Ask people that went through emergency department in the last 10 years, you can randomly pick people. Covid is a serious disease and it does increase load. That will cause problems because the system was finely tuned to always be near to 100% workload in normal operation. That ICU beds were reduced with financial incentives! by the state no less just last summer is a complete joke.

scottndecker 5y ago

Dig deeper on this. At least in the US, a big part of "full hospitals" isn't sick people, but a lack of staff due to vaccination requirements and people quitting.

prohobo 5y ago

This argument has been addressed a couple weeks ago on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419276 The truth is that Germany's government is to blame for this problem in the first place; if you are losing infrastructure during a prolonged crisis instead of bolstering it, you are failing/losing/incompetent. To put restrictions on the population instead of addressing the problem might as well be criminal.

formerly_proven 5y ago
That's entirely correct but doesn't change that the problem exists now.
johnchristopher 5y ago
It doesn't follow from the problem or situation being unfair that there is no problem. For the last three days I have been seeing more and more bad faith or distorted arguments like this on HN regarding Covid. And way less comments from professional virologists or epidemiologists weighing in.
fer 5y ago
It's kind of tiring after 2 years. The same has been said of Spain, France or Italy, though they rank among the top countries in healthcare. While no country is perfect, and many governments made mistakes, you just can't fight an exponential problem (viral epidemic) with linear means (more hospitals). More beds doesn't help, you need the personnel, the training, and upkeep all of that when there's no pandemic. It's unfeasible. Without restrictions in place, and with the current omicron spread we're seeing, doubling hospital capacity magically, with doctors and nurses and ventilators, lasts you for an extra whooping 3 days. 10 times? You'll have around 10 days more before it collapses.
- prohobo 5y ago
  What are you talking about? In WW2 Germany took over the majority of Europe in like 3 months. They completely transformed their industry towards their goals before anyone even lifted a finger. You're saying they can't mobilize themselves to solve this comparatively tiny problem now? They can't build a few dozen field hospitals for Covid patients with basic therapies, like providing oxygen, which is what the vast majority of those patients need? None of the Western European countries have the capability for this? Is this some kind of joke? This is not an exponential problem: it comes in waves. I'm sure you know what an exponential function looks like, and it's not visible here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ Field hospitals that stick around for a few months would be totally fine in handling this. That's what they're for. Is this tiring you? I don't really know what to say to that, except that it seems there's nothing anyone can say to change your mind.

carlivar 5y ago

That would make omicron a good thing if it pushes out Delta and has lower severity, right?