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Is mobbing really better than pairing? I've never done it. Sounds awful. I got into this game to have long stretches of solitary work, that's when I'm at my bes

Is mobbing really better than pairing? I've never done it. Sounds awful. I got into this game to have long stretches of solitary work, that's when I'm at my best. Not entirely obviously, I still work on a team. Anyway, pairing can work well under the right circumstances, curious to hear anyone's take on whether mobbing works or not.

waylandsmithers 5y ago
I've done it with 4 people on a team where occasionally there would be one blocking story before anything else could move forward, so we'd all just jump on zoom. I was never the one in control. It was really hard to keep focused, but the task at hand got done, and it was easy for people to take a break for a few minutes while things continued to move forward.
michael1999 5y ago
Mobbing can be easier for people that pairing, and can be a way to observe the skills required for good pairing before being on the hook for practicing them.
DerArzt 5y ago
It depends....if the mobbing is what my former agile consultants were pushing (having everyone from dev's to business analysts do it) then no, it doesn't work. The few places that I have seen it work sort of well is when there is some big issue going on such as a production outage that can be benefited from having a group of devs together looking at the issue. Aside from that the level of engagement goes down the more people you add to the session and it felt to have diminishing returns on the quality to developer count ratio.
- TrickyRick 5y ago
  This is my experience as well, for a large issue or for learning new tech (Let's say you have a new lib which everyone will be interacting with) it makes sense. For day-to-day it's at best a waste of resources and at worst an excuse for people to do less while getting the same pay.
lexicality 5y ago
I've done it, it's significantly better in terms of software robustness and having a good time. You definitely get less code written than you would individually, but at the end of it everyone involved understands how the code works and why it conforms to the requirements which keeps your team's general knowledge high and turbocharges training for juniors. It's also just pleasant to do a genuine team activity and have a laugh with people. This is all coming from someone who greatly prefers working on their own to doing paring etc btw. It is nothing like the joy of getting your mind spinning at exactly the right speed, becoming one with the problem and smashing out a solution - so don't mentally compare it to that. It's much more like hanging out and brainstorming stupid ideas with your friends on the couch.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  This is some of the first I've heard of mobbing. Is it generally (or in your positive experiences) done remotely, in-person, or could be either?
  - lexicality 5y ago
    I've only ever done it in person and I can't imagine it would work particularly well remotely. Maybe you could attempt to recreate the experience in VR but I don't think we have anywhere near the technology level to accurately recreate 7 people physically in the same space as each other constantly moving around, having side conversations and whiteboarding things
    - q845712 5y ago
      I've experienced it working well-enough in groups of 3-4, depending on everyone having decent internet at that time and on the software used. Just like regular mobbing IMO there's some circumstances where it'll feel like the right method, if it's a method you've occasionally practiced. Here's some free marketing, I am not affiliated with any of these co.s: The best tool I've used for multiple users was CoScreen, because it shows everyone's cursors and allows simultaneous sharing of windows from multiple coworkers. So per that point in the OP that the major benefit is "trivia" knowledge, if you have one coworker who can quickly solve subproblem X from their terminal, and another who can quickly solve subproblem Y from their terminal, both terminals can be shared simultaneously and everyone can gain that context.
jonahx 5y ago
This was the only statement in the article I disagreed with.
- Supermancho 5y ago
  This is just an opinion piece labeled "truths", but I see a few things differently than they do. 8. Kinda. Only when the new ideas impact intra-team boundaries. 8.2 - No. Formal methods will one day be mainstream. We're still learning how to agree on what constitutes the optimal syntax for software. We are getting closer, then will come the optimal forms. 10.1 - No. The Unreasonable Man Theory applies here. It's not better for software that they have to encounter nor for the industry in general (not that I agree with any of the specific paradigms mentioned). 10.2 - I see it differently. Probably because developers require evidence that their life will be easier by adopting specific behaviors. That's hard to do over long periods of time, especially when the esoteric practices are both partly codified ad-hoc choices and partly useful. See item 8. 11. No. If your interviews are over 2hours, your 'loop' is reflecting problems in your organization. When you hire an engineering manager, do they interview every single person they are going to be managing to see if they like them before taking their new job? C'mon. 12. No. Just because it's a problem doesn't mean it's solvable or needs to be solved. Laying effect at the feet of the cause is reasonable. This response is uncharacteristically unreasonable. 13. No. This has already happened (Max 737), so not even then.
corysama 5y ago
If you can do long stretches of solitary work without needing to ask questions of anyone else, do that! But, I often work on features that require the knowledge and input of many people. I lose a lot of time getting blocked on simple things by not knowing what I don't know, figuring out what I'm missing, figuring what to ask, waiting for an answer, trying to implement something based on a brief reply, etc... The few times I've managed to gather a grop to do something approximating mob programming were incredibly productive. The whole time it was 3 people discussing the main thread of code and 1 person off on their own "fixing up some detail". Who was off on their own changed frequently. We were using VSCode Live Share and Live Share Audio.
TiredGuy 5y ago
On the teams I've been on that mobbed extensively there were still people who preferred to work alone. Fortunately the other team members respected that everyone has a different preference and work style. Sometimes it's good to stretch one's comfort zone to try new things, and I'd encourage those who haven't tried mobbing to try it occasionally, but I wouldn't recommend it as something to do all the time. If it's a forced thing or something you do without question or exception, it'll easily become one or two people doing all the work with another just watching or joking around, and sometimes it's not easy to recognize who should be splitting off and who should be staying on, so often everyone stays on with different people alternately drifting in and out of an engaged, participatory state.

waylandsmithers 5y ago

I've done it with 4 people on a team where occasionally there would be one blocking story before anything else could move forward, so we'd all just jump on zoom. I was never the one in control. It was really hard to keep focused, but the task at hand got done, and it was easy for people to take a break for a few minutes while things continued to move forward.

michael1999 5y ago

Mobbing can be easier for people that pairing, and can be a way to observe the skills required for good pairing before being on the hook for practicing them.

DerArzt 5y ago

It depends....if the mobbing is what my former agile consultants were pushing (having everyone from dev's to business analysts do it) then no, it doesn't work. The few places that I have seen it work sort of well is when there is some big issue going on such as a production outage that can be benefited from having a group of devs together looking at the issue. Aside from that the level of engagement goes down the more people you add to the session and it felt to have diminishing returns on the quality to developer count ratio.

TrickyRick 5y ago
This is my experience as well, for a large issue or for learning new tech (Let's say you have a new lib which everyone will be interacting with) it makes sense. For day-to-day it's at best a waste of resources and at worst an excuse for people to do less while getting the same pay.

lexicality 5y ago

I've done it, it's significantly better in terms of software robustness and having a good time. You definitely get less code written than you would individually, but at the end of it everyone involved understands how the code works and why it conforms to the requirements which keeps your team's general knowledge high and turbocharges training for juniors. It's also just pleasant to do a genuine team activity and have a laugh with people. This is all coming from someone who greatly prefers working on their own to doing paring etc btw. It is nothing like the joy of getting your mind spinning at exactly the right speed, becoming one with the problem and smashing out a solution - so don't mentally compare it to that. It's much more like hanging out and brainstorming stupid ideas with your friends on the couch.

jrochkind1 5y ago
This is some of the first I've heard of mobbing. Is it generally (or in your positive experiences) done remotely, in-person, or could be either?
- lexicality 5y ago
  I've only ever done it in person and I can't imagine it would work particularly well remotely. Maybe you could attempt to recreate the experience in VR but I don't think we have anywhere near the technology level to accurately recreate 7 people physically in the same space as each other constantly moving around, having side conversations and whiteboarding things
  - q845712 5y ago
    I've experienced it working well-enough in groups of 3-4, depending on everyone having decent internet at that time and on the software used. Just like regular mobbing IMO there's some circumstances where it'll feel like the right method, if it's a method you've occasionally practiced. Here's some free marketing, I am not affiliated with any of these co.s: The best tool I've used for multiple users was CoScreen, because it shows everyone's cursors and allows simultaneous sharing of windows from multiple coworkers. So per that point in the OP that the major benefit is "trivia" knowledge, if you have one coworker who can quickly solve subproblem X from their terminal, and another who can quickly solve subproblem Y from their terminal, both terminals can be shared simultaneously and everyone can gain that context.

jonahx 5y ago

This was the only statement in the article I disagreed with.

Supermancho 5y ago
This is just an opinion piece labeled "truths", but I see a few things differently than they do. 8. Kinda. Only when the new ideas impact intra-team boundaries. 8.2 - No. Formal methods will one day be mainstream. We're still learning how to agree on what constitutes the optimal syntax for software. We are getting closer, then will come the optimal forms. 10.1 - No. The Unreasonable Man Theory applies here. It's not better for software that they have to encounter nor for the industry in general (not that I agree with any of the specific paradigms mentioned). 10.2 - I see it differently. Probably because developers require evidence that their life will be easier by adopting specific behaviors. That's hard to do over long periods of time, especially when the esoteric practices are both partly codified ad-hoc choices and partly useful. See item 8. 11. No. If your interviews are over 2hours, your 'loop' is reflecting problems in your organization. When you hire an engineering manager, do they interview every single person they are going to be managing to see if they like them before taking their new job? C'mon. 12. No. Just because it's a problem doesn't mean it's solvable or needs to be solved. Laying effect at the feet of the cause is reasonable. This response is uncharacteristically unreasonable. 13. No. This has already happened (Max 737), so not even then.

corysama 5y ago

If you can do long stretches of solitary work without needing to ask questions of anyone else, do that! But, I often work on features that require the knowledge and input of many people. I lose a lot of time getting blocked on simple things by not knowing what I don't know, figuring out what I'm missing, figuring what to ask, waiting for an answer, trying to implement something based on a brief reply, etc... The few times I've managed to gather a grop to do something approximating mob programming were incredibly productive. The whole time it was 3 people discussing the main thread of code and 1 person off on their own "fixing up some detail". Who was off on their own changed frequently. We were using VSCode Live Share and Live Share Audio.

TiredGuy 5y ago

On the teams I've been on that mobbed extensively there were still people who preferred to work alone. Fortunately the other team members respected that everyone has a different preference and work style. Sometimes it's good to stretch one's comfort zone to try new things, and I'd encourage those who haven't tried mobbing to try it occasionally, but I wouldn't recommend it as something to do all the time. If it's a forced thing or something you do without question or exception, it'll easily become one or two people doing all the work with another just watching or joking around, and sometimes it's not easy to recognize who should be splitting off and who should be staying on, so often everyone stays on with different people alternately drifting in and out of an engaged, participatory state.