23 ms·

BusKill – A USB kill cord for laptops

291 points by favourable 5y ago

scblock 5y ago
I hate everything about this website. It uses all the tropes of a bad kickstarter campaign, and to sell you this item it preys on fear and misunderstanding. I absolutely do not trust that this company has my best interest at heart. It's so bad I wouldn't go near this product for any money.
- maltfield 5y ago
  Hi. I made the website. What exactly don't you trust? Everything is open-source, including the designs to build a BusKill cable yourself. * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/index.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/i... The website also runs fine over Tor with javascript disabled. And I spent a lot of time modifying the theme to remove as much third party content (eg google fonts) as I could. We don't expect blind trust, but we do try to be totally transparent to earn it.
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  Really? It seems like “here is what it does” kind if website to me
throwawayffffas 5y ago
I remember seeing something likes this as a do it yourself a while back on hacker news.
- maltfield 5y ago
  Yes! That was just under 2 years ago. It's the same project. DIY is great. The problem is that after I published that article, everyone on Hacker News went and bought-out all the USB-A magnetic breakways on Amazon. And they literally never re-stocked (I found out later it was EOL from the manufacture). The reason I launched this crowdfunding campaign was to put these USB-A magnetic breakaway cables back on the market so people could build their own again (and to sell the whole kit, to lower the barrier of entry to non-techie journalists). * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy
amelius 5y ago
Why not use an accelerometer IC? Then you don't need the cord. Another idea is to use voice recognition.
- datameta 5y ago
  I like the accelerometer idea. Hardware would be more dependable than a sequence of events that requires being able to speak and the mic to be working.
- chinathrow 5y ago
  That's not helping if the person is yanked from the laptop instead of the other way round.
mmaunder 5y ago
Might have protected Ross Ulbricht, but he’s an edge case. Anyone had their laptop yanked away while using it?
- snypher 5y ago
  I thought standard practice was to run no battery, AC adapter only mode.
  - Jerrrry 5y ago
    They will hit the outlet and bring the AC with them, without bumping voltage.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      What kind of equipment does one use to do this?
      - Jerrrry 5y ago
        I'm sure a power-supply-person with more knowledge can expand, but essentially a USP brick with cabling. They will bridge the outlet, and take the outlet, AC adapter, and everything connected, without the AC adapter even reading a voltage drop.
      - chipsa 5y ago
        It's a specialized tool, but basically the plug get pulled out slightly (which isn't enough to disconnect power in the US), and then the tool goes over the line and neutral pins, which supplies power from what is basically an UPS. After that, the entire plug can be pulled and capped (because you've got 120V across the exposed end of a plug now). Probably wouldn't work the same in Euro countries which have other plug types.
        toomanybeersies 5y ago
        Even easier: just pull the wall plate out, then hook up the UPS behind it with couple of tap splices.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
USB-C? or just USB-A only? Us mac folks from the era of no-USB-A are curious.
- maltfield 5y ago
  USB-C is easier. There's tons of magnetic breakaway cables to build your own USB-C BusKill. See the documentation: * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/index.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/i... The reason this campaign is limited to USB-A is because there's no USB-A magnetic breakaway cables on the market. * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy Please support the campaign to make it available to folks who need USB-A BusKill cables.
rckt 5y ago
The idea is interesting, but the current form factor seems to be cumbersome. The cord can be easily disconnected by mistake. It would be nice to have a BT dongle that could react to the distance to the owner and to being unplugged.
- lalopalota 5y ago
  Until something interferes with the bluetooth signal.
- paulcole 5y ago
  Literally an FAQ on the homepage. > But bluetooth... > Using a radio-based Dead Man Switch introduces complexity, delays, and an increased vector of attack. BusKill is a simple hardware kill cord and is therefore more secure than any wireless solution.
- sf_rob 5y ago
  It would be nice if it were a USB-C power brick + magsafe like attachment. That could also be a lot more discrete by shifting the hardware to the brick itself. Granted that limits you to fewer laptops.
- maltfield 5y ago
  If all you want is a BT dongle, then there's tons of "solutions" on the market for this. See our "comparison" table on CrowdSupply for some options: * https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill When I designed BusKill, I intentionally avoided wireless solutions. BusKill is designed for situations where the risk is extremely high, and you'll find that the radio-based solutions aren't very secure. They're faulty and have huge surface areas of attack.
shultays 5y ago
BusKill can trigger your laptop to lock, shutdown, or self-destruct if it's physically separated from you. I understand lock and shutdown but self-destruct? Really? Your laptop/data is one bump away from destroying itself?
- XorNot 5y ago
  Reminds me of a coworker who had their iPhone set to "wipe after 10 bad pins". Took about 2 days before their 5 year old happily typed the wrong pin 10 times and wiped it.
  - dagw 5y ago
    My old job had wipe after 3 (or maybe it was 5) bad pins within N minutes as the required security setting for company phones. The thing I learnt from it is that wiping your phone actually isn't that big a deal and if you've set it up right you can pretty quickly be back up and running.
    - gfosco 5y ago
      I'm getting closer and closer to this reality... iphones are basically there, with icloud backup. Have been trying to get less attached to any OS installs, and be fast at building up from a fresh install. Seems hard to even trust your own desktop after a while.
      - tata71 5y ago
        Is this convenience worth sending unencrypted backups of your data to Apple? Do they allow truly offline backup and restore?
        gfosco 5y ago
        For most people, yeah it's worth it. Afaik, yeah they do allow fully offline backup/restore, you don't need to use iCloud for that. I switched away to an Android, so this isn't something I'm taking advantage of personally.
rightisleft 5y ago
My 2010 MacBook pro acquired this feature about 3 years ago...
throwaway12232 5y ago
This is shockingly expensive and comically impractical to use.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  $89 doesn't seem that expensive. It's just as impractical as money belts, key chain alarms, Tiles(tm) I mean, too impractical for me, but there is definitely a market for it.
  - sph 5y ago
    Indeed. If what I'm doing is so sensitive I need a dead-man switch (i.e. the consequences of getting caught are very high), $89 to improve my opsec is definitely worth the money.
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      Or your threat model is high, think journalists with protected sources.
  - pjerem 5y ago
    Well, that's something you could easily do with only software and any USB device : while { if(!monitored_device.plugged) { setComputerOnFire() } } It must exist somewhere. And for the magnetic gimmick, any magnetic usb (which, btw, are actually pretty useful) cable from amazon would do the trick.
    - pph 5y ago
      That is pretty much what Tails is doing: If you disconnect the USB drive with the system, it will wipe the RAM and then shut down. However the data on the USB drive isn't modified, so if you don't trust its encryption you should prepare for quick physical destruction and/or disposal.
    - maltfield 5y ago
      Hi pjerem, Michael Altfield here (founder of the BusKill project). The problem is that there are no USB-A magnetic breakaways available on Amazon. If there were, then I wouldn't have launched this campaign! * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy Actually, Amazon did have USB-A magnetic breakaway components before, but they went EOL and sold-out when I first published my DIY article on how to build-your-own-BusKill-cable last year. * https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/ https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-k... The reason I started making my own was a response to all the folks that asked me how they could get a USB-A BusKill cable since they sold-out (and they also were never available in Europe -- now they are!).
dotancohen 5y ago
Interesting. The site implicitly references the arrest of the Silk Road founder, using the alternative acronym "Department of Parks and Recreation". He was arrested by having his laptop literally yanked from under his fingertips in a public library.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  Having a USB kill switch in this case could (would?) have escalated the arrest method to something more violent.
  - marvin 5y ago
    How would a more violent arrest have solved anything?
    - danbruc 5y ago
      Instead of moving the laptop you move the user. Unless the kill switch is connected to the user or you remove the user too slowly and allow them to manually trigger the kill switch, you may gain access to the laptop.
      - marvin 5y ago
        That's a very interesting proposition that looks completely insane to my European eyes, but I can certainly understand the philosophy behind it. So the premise is that if using kill-switches becomes common among criminals, we can expect suspects in computer crime cases to be apprehended in ways such as unexpectedly being hit in the head with blunt force trauma, gassed with anesthesics or similar violence. Seems like it would challenge some pretty central democratic principles!
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      The kill switch is useless if the accused is incapacitated before they could trigger it. No knock raids, which are inherently violent, to "preserve evidence" and reduce the risk to LEO happen about 20000 times a year in the US.
tbabej 5y ago
For the Yubikey owners out there, a while back I wrote a blog post on how to achieve a similar setup using a Yubikey [1]. All it requires is a lanyard to attach the yubikey to. [1]: https://tbabej.com/Yubikey-secure-session-setup/ https://tbabej.com/Yubikey-secure-session-setup/
- captaincrunch 5y ago
  Anyone needing a Yubikey would be very lucky to see them just hanging out of a computer, would just a bonus for the evil actor to also ruin your day and pull it out.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    Or you could attach the Yubikey to your belt (with a clip) and connect it to the laptop with a USB cable. Then all they could steal is a useless laptop and a cheap cable.
  - tbabej 5y ago
    The way I've implemented this is that the yubikey is on an extensible lanyard which is almost always around my neck. So while an evil actor could definitely unplug it to ruin my day, stealing it would be a tad bit more difficult :) In any case, the primary idea here was not to prevent stealing the laptop, but to prevent walking away from the laptop without locking it.
- r-w 5y ago
  Won’t do much against my $5 pair of scissors!
- jiehong 5y ago
  Once you’ve lost your yubikey, you have to reboot as root then? Is it possible to register 2 keys, so that any of them is correctly recognised?
Hizonner 5y ago
That can trivially be done in software using any USB device at all. In fact, Tails has done it forever, and I bet other things have too. Total ripoff.
- lelandfe 5y ago
  https://www.buskill.in/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/ https://www.buskill.in/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-swi...
- szszrk 5y ago
  Also magnetic usb cables are quite easily available now. You could use any tiny usb device and add magnetic feature to it for around $10 or so.
arein3 5y ago
I guess the best way would be to auto lock the laptop if someone screams, no hardware needed and if they hold you, you can still scream to lock the laptop
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
  Just remember to whitelist the Wilhelm scream, otherwise you'll get a lot of false positives from any TV in the room.
- jonnat 5y ago
  This comment takes me back to when I didn’t have kids.
- 323 5y ago
  But what if you have no mouth?
rje99 5y ago
I feel I would somehow forget its there a lose all my data within the week...
- excalibur 5y ago
  Yeah, setting it to destroy your data when removed isn't advisable outside of some very controlled settings.
  - jdironman 5y ago
    Not to mention, USB drives fail.
DarthNebo 5y ago
Feel like this something similar can be accomplished for Macs using AirTags/Apple Watch proximity to do specific actions via Shortcuts App, instead of just locking/erasing remotely using 'Find My'.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Isn't that already a thing? IIRC you can configure your Mac to unlock if your Watch is in close proximity, so it should be possible to do the opposite when it goes out of range.
  - DarthNebo 5y ago
    Probably something the Shortcuts app could do, I couldn't find a Watch specific entry when creating one though. So it's just lock/unlock for now.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  I seem to remember Windows 10 has a similar feature. You can pair your phone with it, and it supposedly locks automatically when the phone goes away. I've never seen it work, though...
- minimaxir 5y ago
  macOS Monterey added a "Erase All Content and Settings" feature that works like the iOS versions by deleting the encryption key, although as a result the feature only works on T2 and M1 Macs which encrypt the data at rest even without FileVault. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple imports more emergency wipe features into macOS from iOS.
martin_a 5y ago
Maybe I'm "spoiled" because in Germany there's a need to publish an imprint on all websites that are somehow "commercial" (having ads on it would be enough), but this is highly "dubious". No contact information (as in "who runs this?") is provided on the site. Privacy policy is not GDPR compliant (no contact information provided), no names, nothing. This might be fine for a personal blog, but for doing business this is (at least for me) a no-go.
- bserge 5y ago
  If they wanted to be dubious, they could've put up some fake/stolen information. Then you wouldn't question it, which just makes the whole thing rather useless. I always found it funny how people trust Stiftung Warentest. It's the German equivalent to "Which?", but at least Brits know they're full of shit.
- paulcole 5y ago
  Would you be happier if the site prevented you from viewing it?
  - dspillett 5y ago
    I would. It would save me the time spotting the red flags and backing away anyway. Though a couple of relevant regulations state this should not be done, and no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” when they can instead just get away with just ignoring, or in the case of sites run from elsewhere in the world claim to have no no knowledge of, those regulations.
    - paulcole 5y ago
      > no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” Many local US-based TV news/newspaper sites do this albeit with a slightly more opaque message. And customer still mostly fits because these sites are ad-supported (usually with a mix of local/non-local ads.
schleck8 5y ago
> Buy with Monero I bet they'd go crazy if someone accused them of this being designed for illegal activities
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  That's... because it isn't? How would a dead man switch be illegal? I mean it may, hypothetically, be used to hide illegal activities, but if you go that way you go down the slippery slope and will be advocating for weakening or backdooring encryption just in case it's used for illegal activites.
  - schleck8 5y ago
    This is a perfect fit for darknet admins, being able to nuke all digital evidence when arrested has been a thing for ever. Often it works by closing the laptop. It might also be useful for whistleblowers, although I doubt that there is any advantages over strong file and disk encryption.
- aaronmdjones 5y ago
  It doesn't seem, to me, to be designed for illegal activities any more than, say, a car is. People commit crimes with those every day.
LinuxBender 5y ago
There are mentions in this thread about false positives, risk of data loss, others. This made me think of Star Trek's use of a self destruct phrase. Obviously their method is too slow, but you could have a "duress" phrase and a "all clear" phrase. User-Defined Phrase: "Please dont kill me", activates "duress" mode. - A daemon listens in the background for a phrase of your choice. When detected, your laptop makes a sound effect that is not out of the ordinary for others to hear, but not something you would expect it to play when self destruct is activated. Git repos are committed/pushed with a duress demarcation code to an alternate branch. Your encrypted volumes are dismounted, buffers and caches cleared, camera and microphone start sending small chunks of audio/video to a destination of your choosing. Instructions for playback from your cloud of choice are emailed to emergency contacts. If you do not give the "all clear" in a user-configurable time period, the laptop does user-defined things like wiping encrypted volumes after giving an optional warning sound, optionally sending eeprom codes to brick the BIOS or replace the BIOS with a tracker and setting the screen to say "Stolen From User-Defined String, User-Defined Phone Number" after giving an optional warning sound. All of these actions could be optionally spaced apart based on risk, probably defined in a key-pair text file or json file. User-Defined Phrase: "Computer, disable self destruct" disables "duress" mode. - Giving the all clear code disables this behavior and your ship does not self destruct. The system plays a sound to acknowledge "all clear". Emergency contacts are emailed the all-clear, but audio/video continue to upload for user-defined time in the event your were forced to give the phrase. Perhaps newer cars could also have this feature? Are there any existing open source projects that could be adapted/bent to accomplish these things?
- V__ 5y ago
  I always thought that a lock screen with two passwords would be an interesting idea. Say the BusKill locks your system and sends a request to a server. If you don't enter the correct password to abort the script within a few seconds, it will run on your server, which sends a distress mail/call to emergency contacts, revoke all ssh keys/passwords etc. If however the distress password gets entered, the script still runs, but the system unlocks into a virtual pc or another account which is not suspicious.
  - 5y ago
stevespang 5y ago
Yeah, any kid can then boot it from that same USB port with another USB with OS on it, then format it and sell it.
mnsc 5y ago
Am I the only one to think that if someone is close enough to physically yank your computer out of your hands they are also physically close enough to beat you with a wrench if you lock the computer containing what they are after? https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- jamil7 5y ago
  This xkcd is exactly what came to mind when reading the "Who benefits from BusKill" section.
- karmanyaahm 5y ago
  Probably most of the time but maybe not when the adversery wants to be covert.
- voidmain0001 5y ago
  Same. A person I know was buying physical gold about 8 years ago in preparation for a mega economic collapse which leaves gold as king. However he himself said that he will lose in the end because someone with a gun will come and take what he's got.
- Melkman 5y ago
  That's what the self destruct is for. If you are yanked from your laptop or vice versa the laptop will crypto shred its disk and wipe RAM. Your attackers can hit you till you die but you will not be able to reverse it.
- darkarmani 5y ago
  What percentage of the time are you dealing with thieves versus physical assailants? The lock screen seems to be for more casual users. The shred the filesystem is for hard-core users that will get beat harder if the assailant finds evidence.
salex89 5y ago
Or, maybe just add back the Kensington Security Slot and attach the laptop to yourself/desk with a strong wire and not have your laptop yanked in the first place. I understand the first part of my idea is dead in the water, we hardly get additional ports, let alone a slot hardly anyone will use. But I would like to see a way to retrofit a KSS on a laptop.
- ssorallen 5y ago
  Locking your laptop to a table in a cafe doesn't seem like something most folks would do. Working in a cafe was the use case I imagined when I saw this.
- alushta 5y ago
  The point is to lock your laptop when the government is coming to bust you. This device would have kept Ross Ulbricht out of jail.
  - Jerrrry 5y ago
    >This device would have kept Ross Ulbricht out of jail. This device would had made a difference in the initial library-swipe confrontation, but would had definitely not kept Ross out of jail by any means (even that day)
    - zionic 5y ago
      Oh he certainly would have been arrested (jail), but he would have avoided prison (conviction).
      - Jerrrry 5y ago
        He would of avoided jail (that day, the agent would have noticed the bump-kill-switch and averted recon) He would had always of went to prison, even if they didn't get his HDD unencrypted. He used his personal email to promote his Mycology website, had the Obama administration to contend with, and was the first to sail westward. Free Ross (The Department of Parks and Recreation)
ltultraweight 5y ago
I thought the self-destruct wouldn't run a script, but would actually be a physical attack on the laptop like the usb-killer v2 from a few years back.
k1rcher 5y ago
This is very cool to see. When I discovered and subsequently purchased my framework back in October I had an idea for a homebrewed, 3D printed expansion card, where plugging it in/activating it immediately executes dban (or some other, better alternative). Or you could always just carry an enormously strong electromagnet on you :-) Very keen on picking one of these up purely for the novelty, price isn't too bad. Although I think the demographic who would and could actually benefit from a failsafe for having their laptop physically yanked away from them is quite small.
- maltfield 5y ago
  Our target demographic is mostly journalists. Keep an eye on the number of journalists who are murdered in oppressive regimes. It's very sad :'( * https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking
yholio 5y ago
Good to have if you run a dark net marketplace or a political disident ring from public libraries. An additional refinement is to autolock the device if a certain personal key combo (ex. Shit - vol up - vol down) is not pressed every few minutes in response to an audible click. If not unlocked in a minute or so with a complex password, the device halts to a disk encrypted state and unpowered ram, minimizing the window attackers have to recover RAM state.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  Exactly. You need something not for when your laptop is removed from you, but when you are removed from your laptop. Also, if you are being targeted this hard you need to have something for when you are left in front of your laptop and a gun is put to your head. Or the attackers threaten the welfare of your family.
  - somedude895 5y ago
    > You need something not for when your laptop is removed from you, but when you are removed from your laptop. Yeah, this wouldn't have saved the admin of Alphabay, a now defunct darknet market. The FBI staged a car crash outside his house so when he'd come out to see what was going on they could arrest him and likely get to his laptop while it was unlocked. Then again, he really shouldn't have left his computer unlocked.
    - mdrzn 5y ago
      > Alphabay Related video is all I could find about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXrXD1M6kXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXrXD1M6kXk
    - alias_neo 5y ago
      That seems like a great expense to go to for the sake of a possibility the guy might do more than peek out of the window and then go back to what they were doing. Surely there were a bunch of other options to consider before "let's stage a car crash"?
comeonseriously 5y ago
Windows: Sorry, Dave, we can't shut your system down right now, you have 3 apps keeping it from shutting down and we have 37 updates to Edge Browser to install... Have a nice day.
- Terry_Roll 5y ago
  https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-exitwindowsex https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/n... EWX_FORCEIFHUNG 0x00000010 Forces processes to terminate if they do not respond to the WM_QUERYENDSESSION or WM_ENDSESSION message within the timeout interval. For more information, see the Remarks. If the EWX_FORCEIFHUNG value is specified, the system forces hung applications to close and does not display the dialog box.
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    If forced shutdown is a priority, causing a bugcheck would probably be your best bet. This could be part of the USB driver for the device, or you could write a piece of software running as admin to trigger a fail state (like killing wininit or any other critical part of Windows). You'd have to watch out that you don't let the system store a memory dump, of course, that'd be the exact opposite of what you want.
    - Terry_Roll 5y ago
      Not a battery flat state?
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
  "A stop job is running."
- dotancohen 5y ago
  That's what the -9 flag is for.
- chipsa 5y ago
  Send a signal to a driver to bluescreen the box?
rakwoelq 5y ago
Alternatively you can remove the laptop battery and use it with just the charging cable attached to power the device. The laptop will automatically shut off when the power cable is disconnected. Then PAM Duress [0] can be used for the xkcd538 [1] situation. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28267975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28267975 [1] https://xkcd.com/538 https://xkcd.com/538
- fluidcruft 5y ago
  I guess it depends on the threat model, but if the primary concern is theft couldn't AC adapter disconnect be used for this?
marcodiego 5y ago
This could have saved the creator of silk route. Not that I sympathize with crime, but he was unfairly accused of crimes he didn't committed like paying hitmen to kill enemies. Also, the way to operation was setup to get his laptop forcefully from him was, at the least, disrespectful. If FBI was so sure he committed any crime, they could have legally got a search warrant.
heavenlyblue 5y ago
Why not have a bluetooth/wifi/customised proximity device constantly connected to your laptop (and resides in your wallet/shoes/private parts) and if you suddenly are too far away from your laptop while it's unlocked it gets purged?
- maltfield 5y ago
  If all you want is a bluetooth/wifi solution, then there's tons of "solutions" on the market for this. See our "comparison" table on CrowdSupply for some options: * https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill When I designed BusKill, I intentionally avoided wireless solutions. BusKill is designed for situations where the risk is extremely high, and you'll find that the radio-based solutions aren't very secure. They're faulty and have huge surface areas of attack.
intrasight 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935359 I vaguely remember there being special hard drives with an "acid release" tab for rapid physical destruction. The military being a prime consumer. For laptops, I'm thinking a Thermite kill switch would be effective.
- amiga-workbench 5y ago
  I've seen thermite tested, its absolutely not enough to damage disk players.
  - intrasight 5y ago
    disk player? I'm talking about wrecking SSD drives.
- e0a74c 5y ago
  Some interesting experiments in this department: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpX8YvNg6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpX8YvNg6Y
WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
Looks like "security LARPers" are at it again. I'd bet 99% of buyers will self destruct their laptop themselves, by accidentally bumping into the cord. And to think now, the same people are pushing the narrative how PGP is bad.
- maltfield 5y ago
  Hi, I'm Michael Altfield (Founder of the BusKill project). I'll take that bet because I'm pretty sure <99% of people will ever enable the self-destruct triggers :) BusKill does not ship with destructive triggers. The current app is limited to locking your screen. Future releases will include soft/hard shutdown. We do have a "LUKS Header Shredder" trigger (which we call self-destruct as it renders all the data on the FDE disk useless), but we (intentionally) don't include it by default and raise the barrier of entry because of the risk of data loss. We'll be publishing a more detailed write-up on the LUKS Header Shredder in 2 weeks. You can subscribe for updates on our website (buskill.in) or the campaign directly (crowdsupply.com) Also, while I recognize there are limits in PGP, I encourage it and actively train journalists and activists on how to use it (though I do prefer messaging solutions that make e2ee required and use PFS like Signal, Threema, Wire, etc).
ryanlol 5y ago
I’ve just been using a wristband made out of cheap headphones plugged into a 3.5mm jack, acpi event triggers the shutdown.
- maltfield 5y ago
  How does that work? Can you use udev to call a script on an acpi event? Is it cross-platform? Would love to see a write-up with more info on how to do this :)
  - ryanlol 5y ago
    acpid is probably the easiest way to accomplish this https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/acpid https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/acpid
swader999 5y ago
This great, just like the cord on my snowmobile!
- maltfield 5y ago
  We reference treadmills and jetskis in the explainer video to explain the concept of "Kill Cords" * https://youtu.be/S3LtLyuaBvI?t=26 https://youtu.be/S3LtLyuaBvI?t=26 I didn't know snowmobiles had this too! I guess it's my bias since it never snows where I'm from :D
meerita 5y ago
unplugs the usb –Shutdown has been stop, would you like to keep those Chrome Tabs?
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
would have immensely helped dread pirate roberts
- acoard 5y ago
  Dread Pirate Roberts did have a kill switch. The FBI agents distracted him by having two pretend to be a couple fighting. He turned his head to watch. Then the other FBI agent beside him swiped his laptop. Theoretically he could have hit the kill switch before turning to gawk at a lovers quarrel, but I mean, not many have the opsec or personal discipline to do that.
WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
Say I'm an investigative journalist, gathering information about some bad guy embezzling all politicians that matter in a small country and doing all kinds of criminal stuff, including murders. I'm careful. I'm using a laptop that has this kill switch. I only keep my work on this laptop, it's so sensitive. The bad guy gets a whiff I'm digging around him. He sends armed thugs to my lair. They enter, so I pop the kill switch. "Where is the data?!", they ask me. "I don't know what you're talking about!" They beat me down, then one thug says to the other: "Hey comrade, look, maybe it's all on this laptop?" — "Let's see". The laptop doesn't boot. They turn to me: "Funny how this laptop of yours doesn't even boot, why would you have a non-working toy?" I play dumb, they train their guns on my head. "Okay, okay," I say, "the data on this laptop has self-destructed, you're not getting it, no one is getting it!" — "Really?" — "Really!" — "It's good, motherfucker," says the thug and double-taps me in the head.
- The-Bus 5y ago
  XKCD #538 ("Security") explains this succinctly. https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    XKCD makes the same mistake as the parent of confusing a legal threat with a threat of bodily harm.
- aydwi 5y ago
  You joke but this might have happened already
  - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
    This has happened, it was just that no technical gizmo would have saved the guy. I cannot imagine how. In case of a corrupt government, if they wanted to lock you up, they wouldn't strictly need any evidence at all. Having a gizmo that can potentially destroy evidence is a bonus. Otherwise, they will throw you behind the bars for 18 years for jaywalking. If you had a controversial businessman and his thugs after you, destroying the evidence only means they wouldn't have to destroy it themselves after having killed you. In any case, if you're working on sensitive stuff and you want to pretend you're writing some innocent poetry, I don't think any kind of jamesbondian device would help you look inconspicuous.
captaincrunch 5y ago
What would stop someone from crazy gluing the easy release cable, shaving the wire back and connecting power to the usb before removing it?
noasaservice 5y ago
https://github.com/hephaest0s/usbkill https://github.com/hephaest0s/usbkill This does the same thing, but you can use any USB hardware as the entry/remove trigger. And you can script it to whatever you want. But... that doesn't sell unneeded hardware.
- maltfield 5y ago
  usbkill is a bit backwards from BusKill. usbkill triggers when a device is inserted. BusKill triggers when a device is removed. It's an important difference. I actually didn't start BusKill to sell devices. It was originally a DIY project. The problem is that after I published the article describing how to make it, the one manufacturer of USB-A magnetic breakaways EOL'd their product and it sold-out (my & Hacker New's fault). It also wasn't for sale outside the US. This campaign is a response to people who asked me how they could build their own USB-A cable with a magnetic breakaway. Before they couldn't. Now they can. * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy Of course, you can still build your own. We encourage it. All our designs are open-source. * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/index.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/i...
laristine 5y ago
Should we be concerned that no new canary notice [1] has been posted after the second canary [2], which promised to post the next one in June 2021? [1] List of canaries: https://www.buskill.in/tag/canary/ https://www.buskill.in/tag/canary/ [2] https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/ https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/
- JeffRosenberg 5y ago
  > The BusKill team publishes cryptographically signed warrant canaries on a biannual basis. The canary-002 says: Status: All good Release: 2021-06-13 Period: 2021-06-01 to 2021-12-31 Expiry: 2022-01-31 EDIT: Oh, the issue is just that they failed to update the wording of: "We plan to publish the next of these canary statements in the month of June 2021." Looks like a copy from canary-001.
  - maltfield 5y ago
    Ah, crap, sorry about that. I'll try to remember to update the verbiage of that lower line to reference the top line to prevent this from happening again in the future. Thanks for pointing it out!
- maltfield 5y ago
  Hi, Michael Altfield here (Founder of the BusKill project and holder of the PGP Key for signing canaries) No, you should not be concerned. The latest canary #002 literally says: Period: 2021-06-01 to 2021-12-31 Expiry: 2022-01-31 Source: https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/ https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/ What matters is what's cryptographically signed. Did I make a mistake somewhere else? The next canary will be posted before 2022-01-31.
liminalsunset 5y ago
MacBooks used to have a key combination (left cmd shift option and power) that could be used to kill power instantly. In the schematics, these keyboard keys were hard wired to the SMC microcontroller's reset line, which would remove all voltage to the motherboard upon reset. With the T2, this still exists, but you need to wait more seconds and use a 2step combination. This is a pain because you can no longer use it to do an emergency shutdown.
cultofmetatron 5y ago
This would have saved the guy running the silk road from jail
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Most likely not.
  - cultofmetatron 5y ago
    they organized it so that he was surrounded by agents. they needed to get access to his laptop while it was open and running. This might have gotten him just enough time to disable it before they made their rush.
chrischen 5y ago
Must have if you work in public places in SF. I can barely count how many times I’ve personally or had a friend who’s either had their laptop stolen in a coffee shop or attempted. In recent years thieves even got more brazen and just try to snatch it from you while your hands are still on the keyboard which is perfect for this device. You’ll want to enable full disk encryption for full security.
serverlessmom 5y ago
Me, a person with no real use for this product but still interested: "Wow this is a great idea! I'll investigate!" Me, a clumsy person watching the video: "Oh no," In all seriousness though, I can see how this product could be useful to someone in very specific circumstances and is also an interesting idea.
- MonaroVXR 5y ago
  What about Uber that did this kill switch thing and could immediately "hide" the data?
- maltfield 5y ago
  BusKill does not ship with destructive triggers. The current app is limited to locking your screen. Future releases will include soft/hard shutdown. So, by default, your clumsiness would just mean you have to type your password to unlock your screen. Not a big compromise :) We do have a "LUKS Header Shredder" trigger (which we call self-destruct as it renders all the data on the FDE disk useless), but we (intentionally) don't include it by default and raise the barrier of entry because of the risk of data loss. We'll be publishing a more detailed write-up on the LUKS Header Shredder in 2 weeks. You can subscribe for updates on our website (buskill.in) or the campaign directly (crowdsupply.com)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bob-4 5y ago
    Might be a good idea to remove "self-destruct" from the front page your marketing if it's not intended for the masses. Or at the very least, explain that it's not a default behavior. While you were able to explain that here, others will be hesitant to adopt without the context.
ozfive 5y ago
Or just use this instead. https://github.com/flowchartsman/deadman https://github.com/flowchartsman/deadman
- ozfive 5y ago
  And encrypt your home partition.
ronenlh 5y ago
Reminds me of the story of the arrest of Ross Ulbricht, where his open laptop was snatched away from him in a library by undercover FBI agents, while logged in and chatting as DPR. I recommend reading the whole story, this is in part 2 (https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-2 https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-2) DPR is Dread Pirate Roberts from Silk Road. “What unfolded next was a piece of improvisational theater. At 3:14 pm, DPR was typing away, writing to Cirrus. Just then, a middle-aged woman and man came toward Ross, ambling along in the kind of semihomeless shuffle you might often see in a San Francisco library. “Fuck you!” the woman yelled when they were directly behind Ross’ chair. As if they were a deranged couple about to fight, the man grabbed the woman by the collar and raised his fist. Ross turned around for just a second, during which a hand reached across the table and grasped Ross’ Samsung. The petite, unassuming young Asian woman sitting across from Ross this whole time was, to everyone’s surprise, also an FBI agent. Ross lunged for his machine, a hair too late, as she turned like a quarterback for a quick handoff to Kiernan, who appeared out of nowhere—as instructed—to get the laptop. It took less than 10 seconds. From afar, Tarbell was astonished by the elegant choreography of the whole thing. It looked like the police procedural version of a tight jazz quartet.”

291 points by favourable 5y ago

I hate everything about this website. It uses all the tropes of a bad kickstarter campaign, and to sell you this item it preys on fear and misunderstanding. I absolutely do not trust that this company has my best interest at heart. It's so bad I wouldn't go near this product for any money.

maltfield 5y ago
Hi. I made the website. What exactly don't you trust? Everything is open-source, including the designs to build a BusKill cable yourself. * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/index.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/i... The website also runs fine over Tor with javascript disabled. And I spent a lot of time modifying the theme to remove as much third party content (eg google fonts) as I could. We don't expect blind trust, but we do try to be totally transparent to earn it.
quickthrower2 5y ago
Really? It seems like “here is what it does” kind if website to me

throwawayffffas 5y ago

I remember seeing something likes this as a do it yourself a while back on hacker news.

maltfield 5y ago
Yes! That was just under 2 years ago. It's the same project. DIY is great. The problem is that after I published that article, everyone on Hacker News went and bought-out all the USB-A magnetic breakways on Amazon. And they literally never re-stocked (I found out later it was EOL from the manufacture). The reason I launched this crowdfunding campaign was to put these USB-A magnetic breakaway cables back on the market so people could build their own again (and to sell the whole kit, to lower the barrier of entry to non-techie journalists). * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy

amelius 5y ago

Why not use an accelerometer IC? Then you don't need the cord. Another idea is to use voice recognition.

datameta 5y ago
I like the accelerometer idea. Hardware would be more dependable than a sequence of events that requires being able to speak and the mic to be working.
chinathrow 5y ago
That's not helping if the person is yanked from the laptop instead of the other way round.

mmaunder 5y ago

Might have protected Ross Ulbricht, but he’s an edge case. Anyone had their laptop yanked away while using it?

snypher 5y ago
I thought standard practice was to run no battery, AC adapter only mode.
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  They will hit the outlet and bring the AC with them, without bumping voltage.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    What kind of equipment does one use to do this?
    - Jerrrry 5y ago
      I'm sure a power-supply-person with more knowledge can expand, but essentially a USP brick with cabling. They will bridge the outlet, and take the outlet, AC adapter, and everything connected, without the AC adapter even reading a voltage drop.
    - chipsa 5y ago
      It's a specialized tool, but basically the plug get pulled out slightly (which isn't enough to disconnect power in the US), and then the tool goes over the line and neutral pins, which supplies power from what is basically an UPS. After that, the entire plug can be pulled and capped (because you've got 120V across the exposed end of a plug now). Probably wouldn't work the same in Euro countries which have other plug types.
      - toomanybeersies 5y ago
        Even easier: just pull the wall plate out, then hook up the UPS behind it with couple of tap splices.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

USB-C? or just USB-A only? Us mac folks from the era of no-USB-A are curious.

maltfield 5y ago
USB-C is easier. There's tons of magnetic breakaway cables to build your own USB-C BusKill. See the documentation: * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/index.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/i... The reason this campaign is limited to USB-A is because there's no USB-A magnetic breakaway cables on the market. * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy Please support the campaign to make it available to folks who need USB-A BusKill cables.

rckt 5y ago

The idea is interesting, but the current form factor seems to be cumbersome. The cord can be easily disconnected by mistake. It would be nice to have a BT dongle that could react to the distance to the owner and to being unplugged.

lalopalota 5y ago
Until something interferes with the bluetooth signal.
paulcole 5y ago
Literally an FAQ on the homepage. > But bluetooth... > Using a radio-based Dead Man Switch introduces complexity, delays, and an increased vector of attack. BusKill is a simple hardware kill cord and is therefore more secure than any wireless solution.
sf_rob 5y ago
It would be nice if it were a USB-C power brick + magsafe like attachment. That could also be a lot more discrete by shifting the hardware to the brick itself. Granted that limits you to fewer laptops.
maltfield 5y ago
If all you want is a BT dongle, then there's tons of "solutions" on the market for this. See our "comparison" table on CrowdSupply for some options: * https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill When I designed BusKill, I intentionally avoided wireless solutions. BusKill is designed for situations where the risk is extremely high, and you'll find that the radio-based solutions aren't very secure. They're faulty and have huge surface areas of attack.

shultays 5y ago

BusKill can trigger your laptop to lock, shutdown, or self-destruct if it's physically separated from you. I understand lock and shutdown but self-destruct? Really? Your laptop/data is one bump away from destroying itself?

XorNot 5y ago
Reminds me of a coworker who had their iPhone set to "wipe after 10 bad pins". Took about 2 days before their 5 year old happily typed the wrong pin 10 times and wiped it.
- dagw 5y ago
  My old job had wipe after 3 (or maybe it was 5) bad pins within N minutes as the required security setting for company phones. The thing I learnt from it is that wiping your phone actually isn't that big a deal and if you've set it up right you can pretty quickly be back up and running.
  - gfosco 5y ago
    I'm getting closer and closer to this reality... iphones are basically there, with icloud backup. Have been trying to get less attached to any OS installs, and be fast at building up from a fresh install. Seems hard to even trust your own desktop after a while.
    - tata71 5y ago
      Is this convenience worth sending unencrypted backups of your data to Apple? Do they allow truly offline backup and restore?
      - gfosco 5y ago
        For most people, yeah it's worth it. Afaik, yeah they do allow fully offline backup/restore, you don't need to use iCloud for that. I switched away to an Android, so this isn't something I'm taking advantage of personally.

rightisleft 5y ago

My 2010 MacBook pro acquired this feature about 3 years ago...

throwaway12232 5y ago

This is shockingly expensive and comically impractical to use.

Ensorceled 5y ago
$89 doesn't seem that expensive. It's just as impractical as money belts, key chain alarms, Tiles(tm) I mean, too impractical for me, but there is definitely a market for it.
- sph 5y ago
  Indeed. If what I'm doing is so sensitive I need a dead-man switch (i.e. the consequences of getting caught are very high), $89 to improve my opsec is definitely worth the money.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    Or your threat model is high, think journalists with protected sources.
- pjerem 5y ago
  Well, that's something you could easily do with only software and any USB device : while { if(!monitored_device.plugged) { setComputerOnFire() } } It must exist somewhere. And for the magnetic gimmick, any magnetic usb (which, btw, are actually pretty useful) cable from amazon would do the trick.
  - pph 5y ago
    That is pretty much what Tails is doing: If you disconnect the USB drive with the system, it will wipe the RAM and then shut down. However the data on the USB drive isn't modified, so if you don't trust its encryption you should prepare for quick physical destruction and/or disposal.
  - maltfield 5y ago
    Hi pjerem, Michael Altfield here (founder of the BusKill project). The problem is that there are no USB-A magnetic breakaways available on Amazon. If there were, then I wouldn't have launched this campaign! * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy Actually, Amazon did have USB-A magnetic breakaway components before, but they went EOL and sold-out when I first published my DIY article on how to build-your-own-BusKill-cable last year. * https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/ https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-k... The reason I started making my own was a response to all the folks that asked me how they could get a USB-A BusKill cable since they sold-out (and they also were never available in Europe -- now they are!).

dotancohen 5y ago

Interesting. The site implicitly references the arrest of the Silk Road founder, using the alternative acronym "Department of Parks and Recreation". He was arrested by having his laptop literally yanked from under his fingertips in a public library.

Ensorceled 5y ago
Having a USB kill switch in this case could (would?) have escalated the arrest method to something more violent.
- marvin 5y ago
  How would a more violent arrest have solved anything?
  - danbruc 5y ago
    Instead of moving the laptop you move the user. Unless the kill switch is connected to the user or you remove the user too slowly and allow them to manually trigger the kill switch, you may gain access to the laptop.
    - marvin 5y ago
      That's a very interesting proposition that looks completely insane to my European eyes, but I can certainly understand the philosophy behind it. So the premise is that if using kill-switches becomes common among criminals, we can expect suspects in computer crime cases to be apprehended in ways such as unexpectedly being hit in the head with blunt force trauma, gassed with anesthesics or similar violence. Seems like it would challenge some pretty central democratic principles!
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    The kill switch is useless if the accused is incapacitated before they could trigger it. No knock raids, which are inherently violent, to "preserve evidence" and reduce the risk to LEO happen about 20000 times a year in the US.

tbabej 5y ago

For the Yubikey owners out there, a while back I wrote a blog post on how to achieve a similar setup using a Yubikey [1]. All it requires is a lanyard to attach the yubikey to. [1]: https://tbabej.com/Yubikey-secure-session-setup/ https://tbabej.com/Yubikey-secure-session-setup/

captaincrunch 5y ago
Anyone needing a Yubikey would be very lucky to see them just hanging out of a computer, would just a bonus for the evil actor to also ruin your day and pull it out.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  Or you could attach the Yubikey to your belt (with a clip) and connect it to the laptop with a USB cable. Then all they could steal is a useless laptop and a cheap cable.
- tbabej 5y ago
  The way I've implemented this is that the yubikey is on an extensible lanyard which is almost always around my neck. So while an evil actor could definitely unplug it to ruin my day, stealing it would be a tad bit more difficult :) In any case, the primary idea here was not to prevent stealing the laptop, but to prevent walking away from the laptop without locking it.
r-w 5y ago
Won’t do much against my $5 pair of scissors!
jiehong 5y ago
Once you’ve lost your yubikey, you have to reboot as root then? Is it possible to register 2 keys, so that any of them is correctly recognised?

Hizonner 5y ago

That can trivially be done in software using any USB device at all. In fact, Tails has done it forever, and I bet other things have too. Total ripoff.

lelandfe 5y ago
https://www.buskill.in/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/ https://www.buskill.in/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-swi...
szszrk 5y ago
Also magnetic usb cables are quite easily available now. You could use any tiny usb device and add magnetic feature to it for around $10 or so.

arein3 5y ago

I guess the best way would be to auto lock the laptop if someone screams, no hardware needed and if they hold you, you can still scream to lock the laptop

BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
Just remember to whitelist the Wilhelm scream, otherwise you'll get a lot of false positives from any TV in the room.
jonnat 5y ago
This comment takes me back to when I didn’t have kids.
323 5y ago
But what if you have no mouth?

rje99 5y ago

I feel I would somehow forget its there a lose all my data within the week...

excalibur 5y ago
Yeah, setting it to destroy your data when removed isn't advisable outside of some very controlled settings.
- jdironman 5y ago
  Not to mention, USB drives fail.

DarthNebo 5y ago

Feel like this something similar can be accomplished for Macs using AirTags/Apple Watch proximity to do specific actions via Shortcuts App, instead of just locking/erasing remotely using 'Find My'.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Isn't that already a thing? IIRC you can configure your Mac to unlock if your Watch is in close proximity, so it should be possible to do the opposite when it goes out of range.
- DarthNebo 5y ago
  Probably something the Shortcuts app could do, I couldn't find a Watch specific entry when creating one though. So it's just lock/unlock for now.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
I seem to remember Windows 10 has a similar feature. You can pair your phone with it, and it supposedly locks automatically when the phone goes away. I've never seen it work, though...
minimaxir 5y ago
macOS Monterey added a "Erase All Content and Settings" feature that works like the iOS versions by deleting the encryption key, although as a result the feature only works on T2 and M1 Macs which encrypt the data at rest even without FileVault. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple imports more emergency wipe features into macOS from iOS.

martin_a 5y ago

Maybe I'm "spoiled" because in Germany there's a need to publish an imprint on all websites that are somehow "commercial" (having ads on it would be enough), but this is highly "dubious". No contact information (as in "who runs this?") is provided on the site. Privacy policy is not GDPR compliant (no contact information provided), no names, nothing. This might be fine for a personal blog, but for doing business this is (at least for me) a no-go.

bserge 5y ago
If they wanted to be dubious, they could've put up some fake/stolen information. Then you wouldn't question it, which just makes the whole thing rather useless. I always found it funny how people trust Stiftung Warentest. It's the German equivalent to "Which?", but at least Brits know they're full of shit.
paulcole 5y ago
Would you be happier if the site prevented you from viewing it?
- dspillett 5y ago
  I would. It would save me the time spotting the red flags and backing away anyway. Though a couple of relevant regulations state this should not be done, and no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” when they can instead just get away with just ignoring, or in the case of sites run from elsewhere in the world claim to have no no knowledge of, those regulations.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” Many local US-based TV news/newspaper sites do this albeit with a slightly more opaque message. And customer still mostly fits because these sites are ad-supported (usually with a mix of local/non-local ads.

schleck8 5y ago

> Buy with Monero I bet they'd go crazy if someone accused them of this being designed for illegal activities

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
That's... because it isn't? How would a dead man switch be illegal? I mean it may, hypothetically, be used to hide illegal activities, but if you go that way you go down the slippery slope and will be advocating for weakening or backdooring encryption just in case it's used for illegal activites.
- schleck8 5y ago
  This is a perfect fit for darknet admins, being able to nuke all digital evidence when arrested has been a thing for ever. Often it works by closing the laptop. It might also be useful for whistleblowers, although I doubt that there is any advantages over strong file and disk encryption.
aaronmdjones 5y ago
It doesn't seem, to me, to be designed for illegal activities any more than, say, a car is. People commit crimes with those every day.

LinuxBender 5y ago

There are mentions in this thread about false positives, risk of data loss, others. This made me think of Star Trek's use of a self destruct phrase. Obviously their method is too slow, but you could have a "duress" phrase and a "all clear" phrase. User-Defined Phrase: "Please dont kill me", activates "duress" mode. - A daemon listens in the background for a phrase of your choice. When detected, your laptop makes a sound effect that is not out of the ordinary for others to hear, but not something you would expect it to play when self destruct is activated. Git repos are committed/pushed with a duress demarcation code to an alternate branch. Your encrypted volumes are dismounted, buffers and caches cleared, camera and microphone start sending small chunks of audio/video to a destination of your choosing. Instructions for playback from your cloud of choice are emailed to emergency contacts. If you do not give the "all clear" in a user-configurable time period, the laptop does user-defined things like wiping encrypted volumes after giving an optional warning sound, optionally sending eeprom codes to brick the BIOS or replace the BIOS with a tracker and setting the screen to say "Stolen From User-Defined String, User-Defined Phone Number" after giving an optional warning sound. All of these actions could be optionally spaced apart based on risk, probably defined in a key-pair text file or json file. User-Defined Phrase: "Computer, disable self destruct" disables "duress" mode. - Giving the all clear code disables this behavior and your ship does not self destruct. The system plays a sound to acknowledge "all clear". Emergency contacts are emailed the all-clear, but audio/video continue to upload for user-defined time in the event your were forced to give the phrase. Perhaps newer cars could also have this feature? Are there any existing open source projects that could be adapted/bent to accomplish these things?

V__ 5y ago
I always thought that a lock screen with two passwords would be an interesting idea. Say the BusKill locks your system and sends a request to a server. If you don't enter the correct password to abort the script within a few seconds, it will run on your server, which sends a distress mail/call to emergency contacts, revoke all ssh keys/passwords etc. If however the distress password gets entered, the script still runs, but the system unlocks into a virtual pc or another account which is not suspicious.
- 5y ago

stevespang 5y ago

Yeah, any kid can then boot it from that same USB port with another USB with OS on it, then format it and sell it.

mnsc 5y ago

Am I the only one to think that if someone is close enough to physically yank your computer out of your hands they are also physically close enough to beat you with a wrench if you lock the computer containing what they are after? https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

jamil7 5y ago
This xkcd is exactly what came to mind when reading the "Who benefits from BusKill" section.
karmanyaahm 5y ago
Probably most of the time but maybe not when the adversery wants to be covert.
voidmain0001 5y ago
Same. A person I know was buying physical gold about 8 years ago in preparation for a mega economic collapse which leaves gold as king. However he himself said that he will lose in the end because someone with a gun will come and take what he's got.
Melkman 5y ago
That's what the self destruct is for. If you are yanked from your laptop or vice versa the laptop will crypto shred its disk and wipe RAM. Your attackers can hit you till you die but you will not be able to reverse it.
darkarmani 5y ago
What percentage of the time are you dealing with thieves versus physical assailants? The lock screen seems to be for more casual users. The shred the filesystem is for hard-core users that will get beat harder if the assailant finds evidence.

salex89 5y ago

Or, maybe just add back the Kensington Security Slot and attach the laptop to yourself/desk with a strong wire and not have your laptop yanked in the first place. I understand the first part of my idea is dead in the water, we hardly get additional ports, let alone a slot hardly anyone will use. But I would like to see a way to retrofit a KSS on a laptop.

ssorallen 5y ago
Locking your laptop to a table in a cafe doesn't seem like something most folks would do. Working in a cafe was the use case I imagined when I saw this.
alushta 5y ago
The point is to lock your laptop when the government is coming to bust you. This device would have kept Ross Ulbricht out of jail.
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  >This device would have kept Ross Ulbricht out of jail. This device would had made a difference in the initial library-swipe confrontation, but would had definitely not kept Ross out of jail by any means (even that day)
  - zionic 5y ago
    Oh he certainly would have been arrested (jail), but he would have avoided prison (conviction).
    - Jerrrry 5y ago
      He would of avoided jail (that day, the agent would have noticed the bump-kill-switch and averted recon) He would had always of went to prison, even if they didn't get his HDD unencrypted. He used his personal email to promote his Mycology website, had the Obama administration to contend with, and was the first to sail westward. Free Ross (The Department of Parks and Recreation)

ltultraweight 5y ago

I thought the self-destruct wouldn't run a script, but would actually be a physical attack on the laptop like the usb-killer v2 from a few years back.

k1rcher 5y ago

This is very cool to see. When I discovered and subsequently purchased my framework back in October I had an idea for a homebrewed, 3D printed expansion card, where plugging it in/activating it immediately executes dban (or some other, better alternative). Or you could always just carry an enormously strong electromagnet on you :-) Very keen on picking one of these up purely for the novelty, price isn't too bad. Although I think the demographic who would and could actually benefit from a failsafe for having their laptop physically yanked away from them is quite small.

maltfield 5y ago
Our target demographic is mostly journalists. Keep an eye on the number of journalists who are murdered in oppressive regimes. It's very sad :'( * https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking

yholio 5y ago

Good to have if you run a dark net marketplace or a political disident ring from public libraries. An additional refinement is to autolock the device if a certain personal key combo (ex. Shit - vol up - vol down) is not pressed every few minutes in response to an audible click. If not unlocked in a minute or so with a complex password, the device halts to a disk encrypted state and unpowered ram, minimizing the window attackers have to recover RAM state.

kingcharles 5y ago
Exactly. You need something not for when your laptop is removed from you, but when you are removed from your laptop. Also, if you are being targeted this hard you need to have something for when you are left in front of your laptop and a gun is put to your head. Or the attackers threaten the welfare of your family.
- somedude895 5y ago
  > You need something not for when your laptop is removed from you, but when you are removed from your laptop. Yeah, this wouldn't have saved the admin of Alphabay, a now defunct darknet market. The FBI staged a car crash outside his house so when he'd come out to see what was going on they could arrest him and likely get to his laptop while it was unlocked. Then again, he really shouldn't have left his computer unlocked.
  - mdrzn 5y ago
    > Alphabay Related video is all I could find about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXrXD1M6kXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXrXD1M6kXk
  - alias_neo 5y ago
    That seems like a great expense to go to for the sake of a possibility the guy might do more than peek out of the window and then go back to what they were doing. Surely there were a bunch of other options to consider before "let's stage a car crash"?

comeonseriously 5y ago

Windows: Sorry, Dave, we can't shut your system down right now, you have 3 apps keeping it from shutting down and we have 37 updates to Edge Browser to install... Have a nice day.

Terry_Roll 5y ago
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/nf-winuser-exitwindowsex https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/n... EWX_FORCEIFHUNG 0x00000010 Forces processes to terminate if they do not respond to the WM_QUERYENDSESSION or WM_ENDSESSION message within the timeout interval. For more information, see the Remarks. If the EWX_FORCEIFHUNG value is specified, the system forces hung applications to close and does not display the dialog box.
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  If forced shutdown is a priority, causing a bugcheck would probably be your best bet. This could be part of the USB driver for the device, or you could write a piece of software running as admin to trigger a fail state (like killing wininit or any other critical part of Windows). You'd have to watch out that you don't let the system store a memory dump, of course, that'd be the exact opposite of what you want.
  - Terry_Roll 5y ago
    Not a battery flat state?
BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
"A stop job is running."
dotancohen 5y ago
That's what the -9 flag is for.
chipsa 5y ago
Send a signal to a driver to bluescreen the box?

rakwoelq 5y ago

Alternatively you can remove the laptop battery and use it with just the charging cable attached to power the device. The laptop will automatically shut off when the power cable is disconnected. Then PAM Duress [0] can be used for the xkcd538 [1] situation. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28267975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28267975 [1] https://xkcd.com/538 https://xkcd.com/538

fluidcruft 5y ago
I guess it depends on the threat model, but if the primary concern is theft couldn't AC adapter disconnect be used for this?

marcodiego 5y ago

This could have saved the creator of silk route. Not that I sympathize with crime, but he was unfairly accused of crimes he didn't committed like paying hitmen to kill enemies. Also, the way to operation was setup to get his laptop forcefully from him was, at the least, disrespectful. If FBI was so sure he committed any crime, they could have legally got a search warrant.

heavenlyblue 5y ago

Why not have a bluetooth/wifi/customised proximity device constantly connected to your laptop (and resides in your wallet/shoes/private parts) and if you suddenly are too far away from your laptop while it's unlocked it gets purged?

maltfield 5y ago
If all you want is a bluetooth/wifi solution, then there's tons of "solutions" on the market for this. See our "comparison" table on CrowdSupply for some options: * https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill When I designed BusKill, I intentionally avoided wireless solutions. BusKill is designed for situations where the risk is extremely high, and you'll find that the radio-based solutions aren't very secure. They're faulty and have huge surface areas of attack.

intrasight 5y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935359 I vaguely remember there being special hard drives with an "acid release" tab for rapid physical destruction. The military being a prime consumer. For laptops, I'm thinking a Thermite kill switch would be effective.

amiga-workbench 5y ago
I've seen thermite tested, its absolutely not enough to damage disk players.
- intrasight 5y ago
  disk player? I'm talking about wrecking SSD drives.
e0a74c 5y ago
Some interesting experiments in this department: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpX8YvNg6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpX8YvNg6Y

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago

Looks like "security LARPers" are at it again. I'd bet 99% of buyers will self destruct their laptop themselves, by accidentally bumping into the cord. And to think now, the same people are pushing the narrative how PGP is bad.

maltfield 5y ago
Hi, I'm Michael Altfield (Founder of the BusKill project). I'll take that bet because I'm pretty sure <99% of people will ever enable the self-destruct triggers :) BusKill does not ship with destructive triggers. The current app is limited to locking your screen. Future releases will include soft/hard shutdown. We do have a "LUKS Header Shredder" trigger (which we call self-destruct as it renders all the data on the FDE disk useless), but we (intentionally) don't include it by default and raise the barrier of entry because of the risk of data loss. We'll be publishing a more detailed write-up on the LUKS Header Shredder in 2 weeks. You can subscribe for updates on our website (buskill.in) or the campaign directly (crowdsupply.com) Also, while I recognize there are limits in PGP, I encourage it and actively train journalists and activists on how to use it (though I do prefer messaging solutions that make e2ee required and use PFS like Signal, Threema, Wire, etc).

ryanlol 5y ago

I’ve just been using a wristband made out of cheap headphones plugged into a 3.5mm jack, acpi event triggers the shutdown.

maltfield 5y ago
How does that work? Can you use udev to call a script on an acpi event? Is it cross-platform? Would love to see a write-up with more info on how to do this :)
- ryanlol 5y ago
  acpid is probably the easiest way to accomplish this https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/acpid https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/acpid

swader999 5y ago

This great, just like the cord on my snowmobile!

maltfield 5y ago
We reference treadmills and jetskis in the explainer video to explain the concept of "Kill Cords" * https://youtu.be/S3LtLyuaBvI?t=26 https://youtu.be/S3LtLyuaBvI?t=26 I didn't know snowmobiles had this too! I guess it's my bias since it never snows where I'm from :D

meerita 5y ago

unplugs the usb –Shutdown has been stop, would you like to keep those Chrome Tabs?

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

would have immensely helped dread pirate roberts

acoard 5y ago
Dread Pirate Roberts did have a kill switch. The FBI agents distracted him by having two pretend to be a couple fighting. He turned his head to watch. Then the other FBI agent beside him swiped his laptop. Theoretically he could have hit the kill switch before turning to gawk at a lovers quarrel, but I mean, not many have the opsec or personal discipline to do that.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago

Say I'm an investigative journalist, gathering information about some bad guy embezzling all politicians that matter in a small country and doing all kinds of criminal stuff, including murders. I'm careful. I'm using a laptop that has this kill switch. I only keep my work on this laptop, it's so sensitive. The bad guy gets a whiff I'm digging around him. He sends armed thugs to my lair. They enter, so I pop the kill switch. "Where is the data?!", they ask me. "I don't know what you're talking about!" They beat me down, then one thug says to the other: "Hey comrade, look, maybe it's all on this laptop?" — "Let's see". The laptop doesn't boot. They turn to me: "Funny how this laptop of yours doesn't even boot, why would you have a non-working toy?" I play dumb, they train their guns on my head. "Okay, okay," I say, "the data on this laptop has self-destructed, you're not getting it, no one is getting it!" — "Really?" — "Really!" — "It's good, motherfucker," says the thug and double-taps me in the head.

The-Bus 5y ago
XKCD #538 ("Security") explains this succinctly. https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- goodpoint 5y ago
  XKCD makes the same mistake as the parent of confusing a legal threat with a threat of bodily harm.
aydwi 5y ago
You joke but this might have happened already
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  This has happened, it was just that no technical gizmo would have saved the guy. I cannot imagine how. In case of a corrupt government, if they wanted to lock you up, they wouldn't strictly need any evidence at all. Having a gizmo that can potentially destroy evidence is a bonus. Otherwise, they will throw you behind the bars for 18 years for jaywalking. If you had a controversial businessman and his thugs after you, destroying the evidence only means they wouldn't have to destroy it themselves after having killed you. In any case, if you're working on sensitive stuff and you want to pretend you're writing some innocent poetry, I don't think any kind of jamesbondian device would help you look inconspicuous.

captaincrunch 5y ago

What would stop someone from crazy gluing the easy release cable, shaving the wire back and connecting power to the usb before removing it?

noasaservice 5y ago

https://github.com/hephaest0s/usbkill https://github.com/hephaest0s/usbkill This does the same thing, but you can use any USB hardware as the entry/remove trigger. And you can script it to whatever you want. But... that doesn't sell unneeded hardware.

maltfield 5y ago
usbkill is a bit backwards from BusKill. usbkill triggers when a device is inserted. BusKill triggers when a device is removed. It's an important difference. I actually didn't start BusKill to sell devices. It was originally a DIY project. The problem is that after I published the article describing how to make it, the one manufacturer of USB-A magnetic breakaways EOL'd their product and it sold-out (my & Hacker New's fault). It also wasn't for sale outside the US. This campaign is a response to people who asked me how they could build their own USB-A cable with a magnetic breakaway. Before they couldn't. Now they can. * https://buskill.in/buy https://buskill.in/buy Of course, you can still build your own. We encourage it. All our designs are open-source. * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/index.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/hardware_dev/i...

laristine 5y ago

Should we be concerned that no new canary notice [1] has been posted after the second canary [2], which promised to post the next one in June 2021? [1] List of canaries: https://www.buskill.in/tag/canary/ https://www.buskill.in/tag/canary/ [2] https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/ https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/

JeffRosenberg 5y ago
> The BusKill team publishes cryptographically signed warrant canaries on a biannual basis. The canary-002 says: Status: All good Release: 2021-06-13 Period: 2021-06-01 to 2021-12-31 Expiry: 2022-01-31 EDIT: Oh, the issue is just that they failed to update the wording of: "We plan to publish the next of these canary statements in the month of June 2021." Looks like a copy from canary-001.
- maltfield 5y ago
  Ah, crap, sorry about that. I'll try to remember to update the verbiage of that lower line to reference the top line to prevent this from happening again in the future. Thanks for pointing it out!
maltfield 5y ago
Hi, Michael Altfield here (Founder of the BusKill project and holder of the PGP Key for signing canaries) No, you should not be concerned. The latest canary #002 literally says: Period: 2021-06-01 to 2021-12-31 Expiry: 2022-01-31 Source: https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/ https://www.buskill.in/canary-002/ What matters is what's cryptographically signed. Did I make a mistake somewhere else? The next canary will be posted before 2022-01-31.

liminalsunset 5y ago

MacBooks used to have a key combination (left cmd shift option and power) that could be used to kill power instantly. In the schematics, these keyboard keys were hard wired to the SMC microcontroller's reset line, which would remove all voltage to the motherboard upon reset. With the T2, this still exists, but you need to wait more seconds and use a 2step combination. This is a pain because you can no longer use it to do an emergency shutdown.

cultofmetatron 5y ago

This would have saved the guy running the silk road from jail

goodpoint 5y ago
Most likely not.
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  they organized it so that he was surrounded by agents. they needed to get access to his laptop while it was open and running. This might have gotten him just enough time to disable it before they made their rush.

chrischen 5y ago

Must have if you work in public places in SF. I can barely count how many times I’ve personally or had a friend who’s either had their laptop stolen in a coffee shop or attempted. In recent years thieves even got more brazen and just try to snatch it from you while your hands are still on the keyboard which is perfect for this device. You’ll want to enable full disk encryption for full security.

serverlessmom 5y ago

Me, a person with no real use for this product but still interested: "Wow this is a great idea! I'll investigate!" Me, a clumsy person watching the video: "Oh no," In all seriousness though, I can see how this product could be useful to someone in very specific circumstances and is also an interesting idea.

MonaroVXR 5y ago
What about Uber that did this kill switch thing and could immediately "hide" the data?
maltfield 5y ago
BusKill does not ship with destructive triggers. The current app is limited to locking your screen. Future releases will include soft/hard shutdown. So, by default, your clumsiness would just mean you have to type your password to unlock your screen. Not a big compromise :) We do have a "LUKS Header Shredder" trigger (which we call self-destruct as it renders all the data on the FDE disk useless), but we (intentionally) don't include it by default and raise the barrier of entry because of the risk of data loss. We'll be publishing a more detailed write-up on the LUKS Header Shredder in 2 weeks. You can subscribe for updates on our website (buskill.in) or the campaign directly (crowdsupply.com)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bob-4 5y ago
  Might be a good idea to remove "self-destruct" from the front page your marketing if it's not intended for the masses. Or at the very least, explain that it's not a default behavior. While you were able to explain that here, others will be hesitant to adopt without the context.

ozfive 5y ago

Or just use this instead. https://github.com/flowchartsman/deadman https://github.com/flowchartsman/deadman

ozfive 5y ago
And encrypt your home partition.

ronenlh 5y ago

Reminds me of the story of the arrest of Ross Ulbricht, where his open laptop was snatched away from him in a library by undercover FBI agents, while logged in and chatting as DPR. I recommend reading the whole story, this is in part 2 (https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-2 https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-2) DPR is Dread Pirate Roberts from Silk Road. “What unfolded next was a piece of improvisational theater. At 3:14 pm, DPR was typing away, writing to Cirrus. Just then, a middle-aged woman and man came toward Ross, ambling along in the kind of semihomeless shuffle you might often see in a San Francisco library. “Fuck you!” the woman yelled when they were directly behind Ross’ chair. As if they were a deranged couple about to fight, the man grabbed the woman by the collar and raised his fist. Ross turned around for just a second, during which a hand reached across the table and grasped Ross’ Samsung. The petite, unassuming young Asian woman sitting across from Ross this whole time was, to everyone’s surprise, also an FBI agent. Ross lunged for his machine, a hair too late, as she turned like a quarterback for a quick handoff to Kiernan, who appeared out of nowhere—as instructed—to get the laptop. It took less than 10 seconds. From afar, Tarbell was astonished by the elegant choreography of the whole thing. It looked like the police procedural version of a tight jazz quartet.”