8 ms·

Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I’ve Seen It, Played With It.

302 points by ssclafani 15y ago

joebadmo 15y ago
In certain ways, this "post-PC" era that Apple's brought us into with the iPad seems like a step backward. We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume. These tablets just keep getting more and more optimized for that. I suppose it's somewhat natural, given the way the market works, but it seems our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production. I guess the opposing side is the Web. Amazon seems to be shaping up to be solidly on the side of the centralized authority-type cathedral builders, while the Web and Web technologies are more bazaar-like. It seems more and more like Google is the only powerful singular force whose incentives align with the Web instead of with more centralized production hubs.
- ugh 15y ago
  Whut? I just happily browsed the web, listened to podcasts, checked my RSS feeds and flicked through my Twitter stream for six hours during a train ride on my iPad. All tasks for which the iPad – or more general the tablet form factor – is ideal. I think your argument is incoherent.
  - abstractbill 15y ago
    All the things you just listed are forms of consumption, not production. The argument seems coherent enough to me. I'm not entirely convinced about the "centralized authority" part, but the "tools for consumption advancing faster than tools for production" seems true (and inevitable).
    - ugh 15y ago
      Improving consumption doesn’t imply much about creation. So what if consumption is easier? Does that mean less people will create something? Why? Creating something doesn’t get harder because consumption gets easier. I don’t see the causal connection. (That central authority bullshit is just patent nonsense.) Oh, and our tools for creation still are rapidly improving. Prices for computers have gone nothing but down. People are today able to buy a great PC and a tablet for the same price of a PC ten years ago. Software has become hugely more accessible, hardware has become so much more capable. Creating stuff was never – never – as easy as it is today. We are living in a golden age of content creation and in a golden of content consumption. Tablets will help with that, not hinder.
      - orangecat 15y ago
        Creating something doesn’t get harder because consumption gets easier. You're absolutely right that there's no necessary dichotomy, but in practice that's what's happening. The iPad could be an awesome platform for a Squeak-like development environment where you create and program a bunch of objects and have them interact with each other. But Apple won't allow such an app in their store which makes it unavailable to the large majority of users, and if they had their way jailbreaking your iPad to run it would be a federal crime. Oh, and our tools for creation still are rapidly improving. Prices for computers have gone nothing but down. People are today able to buy a great PC and a tablet for the same price of a PC ten years ago. That's true, today. But if tablets replace PCs for most people as many are predicting, PC prices will go up substantially: partly due to reduced economies of scale, and partly because reducing the market to professionals and geeks will allow more price discrimination.
        ugh 15y ago
        Apple is not the only company in the world. Tablets will improve. You predictions of doom are way overblown.
        griftah 15y ago
        Programming is not a content creation.
        Karunamon 15y ago
        The hell it isn't.
  - rryan 15y ago
    You seem to have misunderstood. joebadmo was saying that the post-PC era seems to be more about content consumption than content production. You responded in the negative by saying you spent 6 hours consuming content, which doesn't make much sense because that would be anecdotal evidence in favor of joebadmo's argument.
    - ugh 15y ago
      We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume. That’s the sentence I was responding to. Central authority bullshit and all.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    You just listed four activites that are consumptive in nature. What was the last thing you produced on your iPad? Not just that, but even the way you use it is not the optimized-for case, I think. Apple wants to optimize you buying music, movies, books, etc. through iTunes and iBooks. Amazon is continuing this trend. Yes, the post-PC devices will continue to allow you to participate in the Web, necessarily, but they will privilege consumption over production, and centralized broadcast models over decentralized peer-to-peer ones. Because that's where the money is. In contrast, the native Web on PCs is more read-write by nature. And Web technologies are making production increasingly easier.
    - ugh 15y ago
      Yes, I do that stuff. I have always done it. I now do it on a more appropriate device. It’s consumption and it’s fun. Not something to scoff at. (Mine was more a response to the central authority bullshit which is obvious nonsense.) It doesn’t matter what I did or did not produce with the iPad. Computers are cheap, software is cheap, creation was never as easy as it is today. We are living in a golden age of content creation but content creation is not for everyone. So what.
      - joebadmo 15y ago
        Creation is much easier today, it's true. And for a while, it looked like the old model of a few rich broadcasting/production companies making things for the rest of us to sit at home and passivel consume was going away, replaced by a model where we all have the means to produce better and better stuff, where merit, originality, expressiveness, communication were rewarded more than the means to invest the necessary capital. It looked like livejournal, flickr, deviantart - the blogging revolution - was empowering a generation to turn off the television and engage in an active, participatory way in a global conversation. Not that passive consumption is inherently evil. I just was imagining a world where the power of creation is more evenly distributed. I'm a little sad to see that trend start to reverse. I agree that creation isn't for everyone. But the available tools have an effect. They encourage or discourage in subtle ways. The iPad's software keyboard imposes just a slight amount of friction on inputting text. That has an effect. It matters, to some however small degree, and it aggregates with every other way that Apple optimizes consumption over production. On centralized authority: again, the way you are consuming content is not the case Apple is optimizing for. They have allowed it, but their most sanctioned way is for you to buy content from their partners through their distribution channels. It's not a complete restriction, but an optimization of a certain model through UI. TFA's description of the new Kindle seems to follow, and, indeed, to go farther down this path. Meta: Not that I'm particularly offended, but why take such an abrasive tone? "Central authority bullshit," "obvious nonsense"? Do you simply not consider it a possibility that you didn't fully understand what I was trying to say, either because I communicated it poorly or because it doesn't align with your preconceived notions? I'm actually quite happy to be having this discussion, as it's one I've tried to have many times, but never got much uptake. But, why start with such a dismissive tone? I've seen so many threads start with mild, mutual abrasiveness and spiral quickly into full-out flamewar. Why take a step down that path? Is it so hard to be overtly civil? Honest question.
  - peterbraden 15y ago
    I think your reply exemplifies his argument - you used an ipod to 'consume' media for si hours, rather than creating, which older computers may have been better suited for.
    - ugh 15y ago
      Wha? If I want to create I can. It’s never been as easy as today. You are creating a false dichotomy. The content I was consuming on my iPad – and that was my point – did not come from a central authority (no more than before when I consumed on my Laptop) and it’s enabled by the cheap tools available for content creation today. I was listening to one awesome podcast by a guy who made podcasting his job and survives (extremely successfully) from donations alone. I was browsing awesome webcomics from people who would never had a chance to make their comics accessible to as many people as they can today. I was reading awesome Harry Potter fan fiction and tales from a lawyer doing his job. All not possible only a decade (maybe two in some cases) ago. We are living in a golden ago of content creation. To be worried about tablets in that context is – sorry – crazy.
      - varunsrin 15y ago
        Was the podcast created by a guy on a iPad? How about the webcomic, do you think it was done in the iPad / Android version photoshop? Was the HP fan fiction typed on a tablet keyboard? The point the OP is trying to make is not that tablets discourage production of content at a higher level. It's that companies are spending a lot of money improving consumption device /software , instead of creative devices/software It's that there is more money is creating consumption devices, and most of the R&D is going into creating better and better consumption devices, with less focus on creation better tools for production. This is however a natural state of the free market - creating consumer-oriented consumption devices is suddenly a lot more profitable than creating devices targeted and production of content, and therefore that is where we are seeing the most innovation/investment right now.
        ugh 15y ago
        No it wasn’t. The iPad is the wrong tool for creating that stuff. But it is awesome for consumption. Argh. This is sooooo frustrating. Why does everyone believe that it’s either the iPad or nothing? That just doesn’t make any sense at all. I don’t get it.
- beaumartinez 15y ago
  > our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production Our tools for production have advanced as far as they can—what major changes have the desktop and laptop PC had over the last five years?
  - chc 15y ago
    There are countless times over the past several thousand years when you could have said that, but our tools for production have managed to get a bit better since 2000 BC.
  - zinkem 15y ago
    Production isn't limited to what you can and can't do with a desktop PC... I think what OP is suggesting is that we should be using computers to help people actively build more stuff, as using them to aid in passive consumption of things others have made.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    That's part of my point. The R&D is going into optimizing consumption instead of enabling production. I think there's still room for making it easier for people to produce expressive content. I don't think I'm necessarily imaginative enough to think of many, or the best, but I've started to try.[0] I think some people, particularly those working on Web stuff, are also trying. But I think web software is only one vector. Other vectors include: hardware, operating systems, native applications. [0]: http://blog.byjoemoon.com/post/9325300749/a-different-kind-of-gui http://blog.byjoemoon.com/post/9325300749/a-different-kind-o...
    - niklas_a 15y ago
      I think it seems you have decided on this view and regardless of all the evidence of the contrary you are sticking with it..
    - 9999 15y ago
      In terms of desktop publishing you might be right, but I think we've seen amazing strides in the realms of audio and video production in the past ten years. It's now possible to buy cameras and audio recording gear for pennies on the dollar of what you used to pay for tools with similar capabilities. Meanwhile the software side of things has advanced just as rapidly... For example, I had to do some noise reduction on some audio recordings a couple of weeks ago and what used to take hours to do in early iterations of Protools now only takes a few clicks in Adobe's Audition (and probably in the latest version of protools too...). Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash... All of these tools have advanced considerably in the last few years, much less the last decade. Tablets have any number of interesting productivity software being developed for them (innovative word processors spring immediately to mind), but developers are severely limited by the hardware capabilities of those platforms... Obviously we won't see a full fledged version of Photoshop or Final Cut written for a tablet for many years to come, but I think we might see that eventually.
- chc 15y ago
  Can you explain how a tablet-form Kindle is more centralized and passive than one with physical keys? I don't follow.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    Not more than the old kindle, but more than the old model of computing, PCs with dedicated input.
    - Hawramani 15y ago
      To me things haven't really changed. The non-techy users never made good use of the freedoms of the PC-era, so to them their environment was just as restricted as the Kindle or iPad environment. As for the geeks, things haven't changed either. We find ways to open up the devices and get the freedoms we want.
      - joebadmo 15y ago
        I agree with you on the extreme ends of the spectrum. But there are plenty of people in the middle who can be encouraged in either direction by the way we construct our tools. I think the explosion of content on the web, or Web 2.0, is all the evidence you need.
        chc 15y ago
        The iPad has also had an explosion of content. Why is that not all the evidence you need?
        joebadmo 15y ago
        Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean apps? Or some other kind of content? I'm not quite following what you mean.
        chc 15y ago
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- jccodez 15y ago
  This whole thread is a great discussion. Commenting so I can come back and read the replies. I agree with many points regarding content creation vs. content consumption and the lines drawn between the two. I do believe the tablet is a great consumption device and that is a major function in the consumer market as well as business (even more so for business based on my experience with my software)
  - sgns 15y ago
    Yeah! What's easily missed too is that the 'free creativity and production for all' ethos on the web – all the good stuff that got us here! - so far largely missed out on financing for most of the traditional cultural sectors. Much of what is most highly valued in our cultures has been woefully underfinanced for our entire lives. The iPad/app model – positioned between all these previously-existing devices and media/content like books/mags/+ – at least makes a start for a venue, a potentially enormously widely available venue, for content producers where they can be discovered – consumed/networked and get paid for their work by a simply enormous audience. This is not necessarily at all a boon for central distribution in the sense of the old massmedia institutions! I'd say that Apple having a lock on it – to the extent that Apple IS the central distribution channel, even if Amazon's tablet is just around the corner! – is not as important as that they provide a relatively 'flat' market for distribution – as I perceive them to do right now. To my understanding, they're basically running their stores at break-even. With Amazon coming into the picture, it's about to become SO interesting – there will be so many different business models: sellers of Gadgets, Content and Ads! EDIT: typos
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- spa942 15y ago
  I don't buy the idea that tablets are getting more optimised for consumption. Just take a look at the app store to see the huge amount of music production software available, some of it replacing music $500+ hardware for $30. And even with its approval process, I find the app store a bad example of the cathedral model considering how all app makers are treated equally. Sure, you have to buy an external keyboard to write longer content on the new tablets, but if the post-PC era happens, I find it hard to believe that content creators will be stopped by that. Time will tell, of course.
- OWaz 15y ago
  If you don't mind would you elaborate on what type of content you meant when you said: "centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume". When I think of content the first thing that comes to mind is stuff like image editing (Photoshop, LR3,Aperture etc) and video editing because those are two realms I spend my free time in. I didn't get what you meant by your statement so that's why I asked. And just to be clear I do believe that tablets are aimed at content consumption and not so much content creation, and I believe that to be a good thing. Why? Well people don't need a $2000 laptop to surf the web and check email.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    I was referring to big studios producing expensive movies, tv shows, albums, music videos, book, and magazines.
- siglesias 15y ago
  Two factors have led to the perception that tablets are "consumption" devices. 1) A tablet is a computer you can hold. Books and magazines have over time become optimized for holding (see size and weight) precisely due to the ergonomics of reading. Thus one would expect that tablets, which can store a vast number of books and magazines, would be "optimized" for such content. 2) Due to (1) it makes sense to trade power for battery life and thus iPad-era tablets use ARM processors. Word processors, music editors, video editors do exist for tablets and each has full privileges to have any interface it wants by assuming the full screen. Over time that software will get more powerful as these low-power processors advance. It can't be argued that iOS itself hinders content creation, but it can be argued that slow processors do. Time will take care of this. Also I don't see consumption--by which you mean reading--to be a bad thing to do with a computer. Amazon's stated purpose for the Kindle is to enable every book in every language ever printed to be available in under a minute. That's an extraordinary vision if you think about it, and we're getting there very quickly. Hardly a step backwards.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    You're right that it's certainly a step forward for consumption. What I meant is that it's a step backward for what I saw as the trend toward a world in which the power to create things is more evenly distributed. Don't get me wrong, I have a kindle, and I love it. But it's not just optimized for reading, it's optimized for reading content that's distributed through a centrally maintained distribution channel. (And while Amazon is trying to wrest control of that channel from the traditional publishers, it's a transfer of power from one central authority to another.) Which is why I appreciate tools like Readability's 'send to kindle' bookmarklet so much: it lets me read content from the bazaar more easily. But. Even then, I had to jump through hoops and the formatting isn't great. In short, it's not optimized. Furthermore, while on the web on a PC I can read a blog post and then immediately comment, share, or respond in a blog post of my own, on my kindle I can't do any of that. I have to put my own system in place to even remember to do it later. In other words, the Kindle optimizes my consumption experience at the expense of my production experience in a way that's sort of profound in a way that I acutely feel is a step backward.
    - 15y ago
- nigham 15y ago
  A step backward is hardly the way I'd put it. Consumption-related technology as well as production related technologies are improving dramatically; we perceive the pace of consumption technology as being faster because consumption technology is far more applicable, and affects more users, and so it's more on the news. This is not a problem, there have always been more readers than writers, movie watchers than movie producers, software users than software creators. There isn't too much discussion when there's a new version of Photoshop, or VIM, or Django, or Wordpress, or countless other technologies (e.g. http://www.asciiflow.com/ http://www.asciiflow.com/) and platforms that help with content creation. One reason I read HN is that these items usually make it here. It's easier to create content now than at any time in the past. How many people built software before iOS and Android? A few folks scattered across huge companies that either built consumer products or provided services for those companies. Today, iOS has half a million apps -- somebody produced them. Arguably the 'consumption-only' device that you think has taken us a step backward has given tens of thousands of people incentive to produce something. Amazon's vision is for authors to be able to self-publish without going through the hassle of publishers, giving more incentive for people to produce. Whereas making movies was once a task for multibillion dollar studios, Youtube has enabled something like the Khan Academy to start earning money by producing content. You cannot have better and better consumption oriented devices in a vacuum. Someone has to produce what the masses are consuming.
  - estel 15y ago
    With respect to app development, which has been incredible in how widespread it's become, it's possible it's just an extension of what the Web started: incredible democratisation of creation.
    - sgns 15y ago
      Great point! Illustrates just how we're still living with the implications of just how the first extremely undemocratic reality of 'code as content' – first encapsulated in program devlopment, then going through a slight democratization route regarding computer usage through the Macintosh, and moving on through the html web – still is playing out. One can at least see that the path-to-market of content has been democratized with the web over time… and the App stores/'App paradigm' are also helpful in making it possible for more to program. I think a big part of our dilemmas have had to do with how isolated and abstract programming and development have been compared to mainstream society. A relative 'mainstreaming' of programming is still an incredible thought – yet it is happening right now! Whatever happens to our present jobs, I can't help but think that the infusion of new programming talent is about to create a new reality – a wave that could lift a great number of us – given appropriate channels for us all to contribute so much more than regular business logic programming - and us people practicing and getting ready to catch it! (over the top eh? :)
- swlkr 15y ago
  I totally agree with this.
- blrgeek 15y ago
  Think of the post-PC tablets as replacing TVs/books/browsers/iPods in time spent consuming content. Content consumption devices (aka radio, TV, books, mp3 players) have not had a significant advance in decades. The browser was the first new conduit that moved people away from these devices. These people used a PC, but merely as a content consumption device, NOT as a content creation device! Now tablets - which are mostly hardware for browsers, becoming more so with 'cloud' services - are becoming personal content consumption devices. As long as there's a browser, it's a window to the world of content - not just the central authority's content. For so long producers have wanted to have a powerful computing device in every hand. Now that day is closer!
- HSO 15y ago
  I'm growing more and more irritated by the classification of "reading" as "consumption". Consumption is usually defined as a sink of goods (as opposed to "investment" or "production"). Reading per se, however, does not result in anything vanishing from the system. It _can_ mean that but usually the ideas or perspectives contained in the book or article change the ideas or perspectives of the reader. Reading _can_ be pure consumption, for sure, but that describes a specific type of reading. One could argue that buying a physical copy and tossing it after you're done is the act of consumption. But then the consumption really concerns only the physical medium, not the content. Am I splitting hairs? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I feel the more people talk about reading as something "for passive users to consume", the more it narrows the industry perspective on what transmitting ideas between people means or could mean.
  - astine 15y ago
    "Am I splitting hairs?" You are, but let me split them further. Any expense can be classified as either a capital expense or a consumptive one. Expenses classified as one can usually, with a few logical contortions, also be classified as the other. For example, food is the classical consumptive expense, but one could also treat it as an investment as food keeps one alive (and healthy hopefully) and allows one to work in the future. I think that the same can be said about reading here. If you buy a book, it's an expense, and if you read it, you've "consumed" it. Sure you can read it again or someone else can read it, but it's still a consumer good. I think what people mean here is that devices like this and the iPad are not generally geared to the production of works and more to their consumption. What I mean is, while reading a book on the Amazon Kindle might be an investment in your own mind and future, the Kindle doesn't enable one to author his own books. The web however, does enable one to put up his own webpage or blog (if you can figure it out.) I think this is what people are talking about here. It has to do with our place in the economics of the thing.
- _debug_ 15y ago
  Apple has not brought us anywhere in particular : people have always been that passive. The iPad's popularity is because of the lack of a keyboard for these 95% of the population. For folks like you and me, it is despite the lack of a keyboard.
Lewisham 15y ago
If Amazon are going to maintain an Android fork, I wonder how well Android apps will be able to play with it. It would be a huge disappointment if 2.2+ apps were unavailable (or installing Google Market for that matter). I can see why Amazon has gone down this path, but I do wonder if it's the right thing, rather than doing everyone's favorite/most hated carrier-specific bolt-ons instead. I also hope that Amazon doesn't give up on color e-ink, because reading on a Kindle is so much nicer.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  The article says there's no Google Market. Only Amazon's. As for forking, I'm guessing it's not really a fork. It's just got their own UI on top, but they'll continue to get the rest of the updates from Google.
  - rryan 15y ago
    In that sense of a fork, all manufacturers of Android have forked it. I assume if they (or the person who showed it to MG) called it a fork that would be more significant than just a custom UI (which Android is designed to facilitate).
    - wanorris 15y ago
      The "Google Experience" has always been an optional part of Android that required additional licensing, but all the major Android manufacturers have licensed it. The lack of it means that this diverges from the typical Android device much more than Samsung, HTC, or Motorola devices. When you throw in the fact that the main shell is considerably different (a content browser rather than a widget environment), I'd say that the use of the term "fork" is understandable, even if not quite right.
  - estel 15y ago
    If this device has no physical buttons, then it seems likely that it would have to be a true fork.
georgemcbay 15y ago
Sounds pretty good to me with the exception of "pre-2.2". No Dalvik JIT? Hopefully that part was a misunderstanding. Having run pre-Froyo and Froyo+ on the same device, the jit engine is a pretty big deal.
markgx 15y ago
Amazon could carve out the "sub-iPad" tablet market if their $250 price point holds and they release a usable tablet. Look at what happened with the HP firesale.
jmelloy 15y ago
I think it's interesting that everybody is attempting to differentiate on top of the Android kernel, and are forced to build their own skin to compete. Free Prime memebership (for life?) is interesting. Amazon has a big content catalog, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense for them to go this alone and not be forced to use Google's shit app store. Overall, I think they'll have trouble differentiating between them and the iPad and them and the nook Color, and it doesn't seem like they've really brought anything new to the table.
- crenshaw 15y ago
  Prime membership is a genius move by Amazon. Since getting Prime I buy things at the drop of a hat. I literally think I order about 10x more product from Amazon now than before Prime. The fact they can give this away as a benefit is a double win for them.
- fuzzythinker 15y ago
  No way. It will be a year at best to hook people to it. It will be their "blade" to the tablet "razor".
  - evilduck 15y ago
    Probably true. I have Amazon Mom and the free Prime is only good for a year, there's no way they'd give away lifetime free shipping on such a cheap device.
mootothemax 15y ago
I've been sorely tempted to pick up a Kindle for the last few months, and had thought it'd make a nice Christmas present. I know - I'm so considerate. Given that the present version has been out for a while, I was wondering if an updated version would be released in time for the Christmas rush. 10 hour battery life, not going to fit in at the beach, nor the less safe parts of the city? Nah, I'll go for the current Kindle instead thanks :)
- mattm 15y ago
  I debated over getting the Kindle for a while but since getting it about 6 weeks ago it is by far my favourite device. I'm reading so much more now (and spending much more on books). I just wish I got it sooner.
- estel 15y ago
  This doesn't negate releasing an update of the e-ink Kindle; though I don't think this will necessarily happen. I can definitely see another Kindle pricedrop on the cards for the Holiday season though.
ajg1977 15y ago
If there's one thing they need to nail on this device (beyond the Kindle app) it's web browsing. a $250 7" tablet with a top class browser is a hugely compelling product all by itself.
- sandGorgon 15y ago
  There have been several white-label 8'' multitouch tablets for a long time. http://www.androidtabletspcs.com/8-Inch-Android-2-3-Tablet-PC-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-Digital-TFT-1024-768-Camera-WIFI-Bluetooth-CR-8002HD.html http://www.androidtabletspcs.com/8-Inch-Android-2-3-Tablet-P... For example - the tablet above has A8 Cortex, gingerbread and dual-cameras.
  - shinratdr 15y ago
    Not to mention this: > resolution 800*600(4:3) Yeah, I think I'll pass. This is the problem with all of those off label Android tablets (and the cheaper brand name ones too, looking at you Viewsonic & Acer) they have runoff parts from production of knockoff phones so they frequently have serious issues, they can be completely unusable depending on how much or how little slack the community picks up, and without exception the screens are absolutely atrocious. I just picked up an Acer Iconia A100 for $300 and it has the shittiest TFT screen I have seen on a tablet, ever. It's going right back to the store because of it. A tablet comes together. It's not a good screen, a good OS, a good CPU, a good GPU, etc... It's all of those things executed well and working harmoniously. If it's not, it might as well be a paperweight. If you like screwing around constantly to get things working, inconsistent features and completely random manufacturer support, then grab an off label tablet or a cheap non-Google sanctioned tablet. You want a device that can do more than read e-books, browse the web poorly and play Angry Birds at 75% framerate if you're lucky, then consider waiting a month or two and saving up the money for something that you won't grow to hate.
    - sandGorgon 15y ago
      actually this is the 1024x768 res display. I dont know why the disparity in description.
psychotik 15y ago
This could become a potential nightmare for app developers. Assuming they don't break public APIs in their custom fork, developers are still going to need to worry about backward compatibility and not being able to provide advanced features for their apps on Android devices. Couple that with problems with payments/in-app purchases and this is just a nightmare waiting to happen for Android developers. If the forked-OS stuff is true, this feels like a bad move by Amazon.
- bishnu 15y ago
  Or, It's a nightmare for Amazon's competitors making Honeycomb tablets, the sales of which are so mediocre that if the Kindle Tablet gains any traction at ALL developers will wonder why bother with any other Android tablet?
ipsin 15y ago
I'm not interested unless it's: 1) easily flashable with an actual Android ROM (a la Nook/cyanogen) 2) got a 3G data connection, similar to the current 3G kindle If both are true, it's a really compelling device.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  It sounds like you want a Galaxy Tab 7 for $250. I'd actually be surprised if Amazon allows it to be reflashed (insofar as you can actually restrict it). That would eliminate their entire point in selling it (their ecosystem of content).
- Anti-Ratfish 15y ago
  Try a different route. How about getting amazon android (what do you call it?) running on a touchpad. Damn knows how you would do it. Would be a lot cheaper than buying the colour kindle though and the touchpad includes a few of those features you want (but probably no software to run them). If the story is correct and colour kindle does look like a playbook then I'd argue that the touchpad looks better too.
mrinterweb 15y ago
I heard a lot of rumor that the rumored Amazon tablet would use a Qualcomm Mirasol passive color display technology with a refresh rate capable of running video. I wonder if this rumor is still circulating or confirmed.
- scarmig 15y ago
  Unfortunately, last I heard was that the Mirasol project had in some way been cancelled, though the technology is still actively being improved. It'll be awhile before we get Mirasol =(
drivebyacct2 15y ago
Google's applications are not part of Android. Putting a skin on Android and not shipping it with Google apps is NOT a fork. Even if you want to consider it one in a technical definition, it's not a significant one. It's as much a fork of Android as CyanogenMod is. (CM does not come with Google Apps, though they can be added after-the-fact).
- Adaptive 15y ago
  You made the most important comment in this thread. I really would like to see TC clear this up. Do they really mean fork or, as I suspect and as you state, is this just Android without the google apps baked in? Market is a bigger question. Without considering manually side loading the apps, I'm assuming that users will be able to install google apps on the device as they are, for the most part, all available via Android Market right now. Given that Amazon doesn't provide mail, maps or any of the other useful google apps, I'm assuming that users will be able to download them from Android Market, somehow.
  - trotsky 15y ago
    It won't have android market access without a hack, just Amazon's market. The lack of a camera (among other things) means it doesn't meet the hardware standards google requires for shipping google apps which includes the market. Not that Amazon would want to anyway, they clearly would like to drive traffic to their store.
    - Adaptive 15y ago
      That all sounds right but still, what kind of compelling is an android tablet without gmail? I can't imagine they expect people to put up with imap. I can understand the drive-traffic-to-our-content-ecosystem, but there's some stuff a tablet just has to do these days. Then again, no camera, maybe they are positioning it as a fancy kindle, in which $250 is too much.
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    I feel slimy making this comment, but "trotsky is completely correct". Users can't side load Google Apps, because they require the Market. The Market (and it's underlying dependency of Google Talk [yes, it sounds funny, look it up, I wish I were kidding]), requires special installation and components that frankly I can't explain (I don't know how to). But I know enough to tell you that you can't simply download Market.apk and install it.
rshm 15y ago
$250 is too much. Ebay/Amazon has similar specs 800MHz/7"/Android 2.2 for $87 and below with a free shipping.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  All of the below products launched, at the time, with poorer spec sheet features/price than their competitors, and then proceeded to annihilate said competitors: - MacBook/Pro - iPhone - BlackBerry - iPod - Android - Wii When are we as the geek community going to stop worshipping the spec sheet and realize that mainstream consumers can't give two shits about it?
- frou_dh 15y ago
  Is it remotely possible that an $87 tablet from eBay won't be complete garbage?
- srdev 15y ago
  My wife has one of those $87 Android 2.2 tablets and they're near-unusable. We had to replace the clunky firmware to a real Google Marketplace rather than a Chinese knock-off. Even then, the performance was sub-par. The thing struggled to even perform the most basic UI operations. There is a market for a quality tablet at a $250 price point.
Fjslfj 15y ago
Facebook is forking Android in a similar fashion.
superuser2 15y ago
E-ink made the Kindle. Tablets are exciting, but reading a novel on a backlit screen is no fun, and if it were, we'd read on our cell phones, because they're easier to carry around. This is disappointing. The Kindle 2 (the model I had) did one thing, and one thing phenomenally well. I don't want my kindle to be a Swiss army knife.
- starwed 15y ago
  The article does say that: >Amazon has been working on a multi-touch screen/e-ink hybrid tablet device. Presumably it's just much, much easier to develop the backlit tablet than one using e-ink. The technology will be there eventually, but it might take a while... :(
  - mikecane 15y ago
    It could mean either a Pixel Qi or Mirasol screen.
- wvenable 15y ago
  Amazon is more than just books or at least they want to be. E-ink is great for books. But if you want to sell music, movies, and games then you need something like this.
- kyleslattery 15y ago
  I would be surprised if Amazon ditches their existing Kindle. I'm sure this will just be an addition to the product lineup, rather than a replacement.
  - mikecane 15y ago
    Bezos on Charlie Rose: -They want a purpose-built device where no tradeoffs have been made, where every single design decision as you’re walking down the process has been made to optimize for reading. -The number one thing that people are doing on their iPad right now if you look at the rankings is playing a game called “Angry Birds” where you throw birds at pigs and the pigs blow up. The number one thing that people are doing on their Kindle right now is reading Stieg Larsson.
blinkingled 15y ago
* Google’s Android Market is nowhere to be found. In fact,no Google app is anywhere to be found. This is Android fully forked. My understanding is that the Kindle OS was built on top of some version of Android prior to 2.2.* MG goes on to say it is smooth and responsive. And I think many Apps are going to be incompatible with anything less than Android 2.2. Given this I would think Amazon will want to have at least 2.2 on there. Would be kinda sad if they ran 1.6 on it in 2011! [Edit] May be it is 2.1 - AWS SDK for Android Requires Android 2.1 (API Level 7) or higher. Oh well may be they will keep it up to date!
AndrewClyde 15y ago
I think the Kindle-branded tablet will be successful and manage to compete with the iPad. However, it's not going to win in the way people expect it to; I think it'll bring a lot of people into the post-PC tablet world and introduce a cheap tablet to a lot of people, but it's not going to revolutionize anything major and won't be able to do anything the iPad and/or TouchPad can't do.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
d0m 15y ago
Any TL;DR with a picture?
- andrewpi 15y ago
  Gizmodo took the description and created a mock-up: http://gizmodo.com/5837061/this-is-amazons-kindle-tablet http://gizmodo.com/5837061/this-is-amazons-kindle-tablet
Steko 15y ago
Five or Six Things That Occurred In My Brain When I Read This Article: (1) $250 with free Prime? Buying one for sure, maybe two. (2) No camera? Ugg. At least a front facing camera for Skype pls, I'll pay extra. (3) November, meh I was hoping late September. (4) Eclair fork? That has to be wrong lots of optimizations made in Froyo which has been available for over a year. (5) Maybe this provided some additional incentive for Google to withhold Honeycomb source? (6) MG Siegler continues to break character and occasionally commit actual journalism. Would love to see this trend continue.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- kemayo 15y ago
  I'm very interested to hear the details of "free Prime". Depending on the implementation then this might suddenly become a thing I will buy because it makes financial sense, regardless of its technical merit.
  - mortenjorck 15y ago
    1 year? Nice perk. 2 years? Effectively sub-$100 tablet. 3 years? Paying for itself.
- Tichy 15y ago
  No camera = dealbreaker for me. At least in theory. In practice, Skype seems very slow on actually supporting video chat anyway :-(
gamble 15y ago
This will have a hard time competing with the iPad internationally, if it really is focused on deep integration with their digital stores. Amazon has been extremely reluctant to roll out their content stores beyond the US. For example, they still haven't expanded their mp3 store to Canada.
- xxpor 15y ago
  I doubt it's due to reluctance, but licensing issues.
  - gamble 15y ago
    It seems to be standard procedure for Amazon. They carry a far wider selection of products on the American site than any of their international stores. Until the last few years they basically only sold media in Canada.
    - xxpor 15y ago
      That may be more logistical issues.
gfodor 15y ago
This is cool and all, but I'd really like Amazon to make a DX with an extra inch of space, so it's the size of a real book, and I can read PDFs on it without squinting.
achompas 15y ago
By far the most interesting quote from Siegler's article: Overall, the UI of this Kindle felt very responsive. You can flick through the carousel seamlessly. This is something Amazon has apparently been working on quite a bit, I’m told. And they continue to. If Amazon gets this right, they're a long way towards recreating the iPad UX. In fact, this entire article suggests that the Kindle tablet will be the first widely adopted non-iPad tablet. In addition to the above: 1. The interface sounds great. I am a humongous fan of the Kindle Cloud Reader and iOS interfaces, and I believe they're designed very well. Users can expect a well-designed tablet from Amazon. 2. Users can draw from a central source for their content. Amazon will provide all the movies, music, and books you need--something every other Android tablet has lacked so far. Mainstream users will appreciate the centralized content provision, especially from a company as respected as Amazon. 3. Cutting the Android Market solves a lot of potential issues: no spyware, no OS incompatibilities, no apps with large hardware requirements. Everything in the Amazon Appstore will work on this Kindle (I expect it to be a requirement for admission). This tablet sounds very...Apple-like. A very closed ecosystem with access to interesting content and a curated app store. I would buy it if I was shopping for a tablet.
- enjo 15y ago
  But we already have that. Why woud you buy it? Is it just that it's cheaper? Are developers going to want to build apps for it? I think breaking away to complete Android incompatibility is a huge mistake.
  - achompas 15y ago
    It's not just cheaper--it's 50% less than the price of a new iPad. That's a substantial difference.
    - bradleyland 15y ago
      I think you're the first person in this thread to really "get it". To answer some of the parent's questions: Q) Why would you buy it? A) Because it's significantly less expensive (more within reach). Because it's Amazon, and it will have ready access to: music, movies, books, and an exemplary shopping experience for a wide variety of products. This experience will be well integrated with the device, and in the traditional Amazon way, everything will be extremely easy. "From the people that brought you 1-click purchasing." Q) Is it just that it's cheaper? A) You say "just that it's cheaper" as if that's insignificant. Did you see the way HP TouchPads flew off the shelves at $99? Do you know anyone smart enough, or with enough experience, to say that a properly priced Amazon Tablet won't fly off the shelves at half the cost of an iPad? Q) Are developers going to want to build apps for it? A) On a cached copy of their "Inside Amazon" page [1], they state: "Over 137 million active Amazon customer accounts". If I recall correctly, Steve jobs was proud of the fact that iTMS had over 100 million customers with credit cards on file. With 137 million active customers, they've got a massive base to which they can market. 1 - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CwHkwbSb-IIJ:www.amazon.com/Inside-Careers-Homepage/b%3Fie%3DUTF8%26node%3D239367011+amazon+active+customer+accounts&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CwHkwbS...
AdamGibbins 15y ago
I really hope they don't hope to make this a replacement for their eink non-backlit devices. That would be a disaster :(
- docgnome 15y ago
  Agreed. No eink, not interested.
systems 15y ago
First you think its a revolution, then it calms down to en evolution. From tablets to Notebooks 1. First come tablets 2. Then tablets gets a stand (so you dont have to hold them all the time) 3. Then tablets gets a keyboard (so you can type quickly) 4. Then tablets gets a mouse like device (so you dont have to touch the screen while on the stand) 5. Then they run (your favorite distro of) linux 6. Then they become keyboard-less more portable laptops 7. Then we call them notebooks
kloncks 15y ago
A lot of people questioned whether or not there was a market for a CrunchPad, or a cheap entry tablet. Looks like this will validate that. Now, if only webOS could chime in and make this an interesting battle. That would be special.
tricolon 15y ago
I really don't get the point of a Kindle with a battery life of only 10 hours.
- hugh3 15y ago
  Do you read for more than ten hours at a stretch? Personally I'd kill for a tablet that could last the eighteen hours door-to-door from SFO to SYD, but hey, ten hours is a good start.
  - tricolon 15y ago
    Only sometimes. Right now, though, my Kindle is very convenient: I only have to charge it every couple weeks or so. Just like my trusty Nokia from 2002.
rospaya 15y ago
Wonder if they'll be selling it internationally, like a Kindle. The major difference is that this probably won't have a 3G connection so it should be even simpler.
SwellJoe 15y ago
I was momentarily excited...until I read the description of the new Kindle. I played with a Nook a few weeks ago, and almost bought one. $249 is nearly an impulse purchase price point. But, I already had a netbook, a Kindle, a laptop, a Nexus One (which broke a few days ago, to be replaced by a Sensation), a desktop, and a DS, so I talked myself out of it. One of the big reasons is because I wouldn't be able to get rid of my existing Kindle. The Kindle has a killer feature, which I can't replicate: International 3G Internet for free. It's a piss poor excuse for a web browser, but when I'm out of the country, I can google "wifi hotspot city-name" and find a place to connect my netbook or laptop and get some work done. This is a miracle for someone that travels as much as I do. The battery life is also spectacular. Since I travel in a motorhome, and sometimes go days without plugging in, the ability to read books without having to think about charging my ebook reader is awesome. So, the two really awesome things about the current Kindle that I have, are not present in the Android Kindle. Also, the fact that they've forked Android hard makes me more than a little hesitant to consider it. My new phone is only a slight divergence from standard Android, and I find it annoying as hell...I'll probably be rooting it and putting a more standard Android on it when I have more free time. The notion of a total fork without a standard Market and all the Google apps (Maps is my lifeline when travelling), and possibly without some of the other apps I rely on, is just crazy. It's hard to imagine such a thing not sucking. In short, it sounds like I'll be better served by a Nook, should I decide to buy a little ebook/tablet. At least it is readily converted to a standard Android device. Or, maybe I'll just wait out the next round of tablets...or, maybe I'll just not buy a tablet. I still have yet to figure out what I'd use one for. They seem to be highly focused consumption devices, and I do enough consumption as it is.
- rwmj 15y ago
  I'm liking (not "loving") my rooted Nook Color with CM7 nightlies. It was, above all, a cheap tablet, and given the limitations of the price it works rather well. However for the reasons you outlined in your comment, it's not a great e-reader. The Nook is better as a sort of cheap web browser for looking up recipes in the kitchen, looking at Google Maps, and web browsing when my wife is using the main computer.
- mikecane 15y ago
6ren 15y ago
Won't be as successful as the Kindle, because the kindle is exceptionally tailored to its usage of buying and reading books - whereas this is android dragged half-way there. And android tablets haven't been doing well anyway (20:80), even the very best of them. The 3G kindle's tailoring is: - free 3G (yes, free), to buy amazon books - black and white E-Ink which is much closer to paper than colour displays. - much lighter and slimmer (241grams; 8.5oz) - long battery life (2 months - about x60 longer than a tablet), though this probably overshoots the need. i.e. they'd be better off using a smaller battery (or even AA batteries). I'm so impressed with the Kindle because it resists trying to be the best at everything, but instead makes comprises that optimize it for its purpose. Whereas the Android tablet described here is much worse on all fronts and half-hearted as Android: neither fish nor fowl.
eyko 15y ago
I'm buying.
listic 15y ago
Does anyone know how durable are the current e-ink readers? May it be so that Amazon moves away from e-ink readers in particular because they can't be made reliable? I like to read books and I was a theoretical fan of e-ink readers, but I never owned one. My younger brother, on the other hand, was against them: "why buy the device that only reads books?" On a recent trip to the countryside he borrowed a (PocketBook 301 plus) reader from a friend and put it in the tent's pocket together with a phone, iPod and other such stuff. In the morning, he found that the screen failed because it had a tiny crack. Maybe someone accidentally kicked it or something, but modern phones, iPod and such withstand abuse rather well, and this thing broke after one night - it even was in its own leather case that covers the screen! Googling revealed that cracking screen is a common issue. I start to suspect that those e-ink screen are a flawed technology as they are. There might be a reason Sony makes their readers with a metallic case, but do they last even then?
- mikecane 15y ago
  >>>There might be a reason Sony makes their readers with a metallic case Used to. The latest Reader WiFi is all-plastic.
rmc 15y ago
Is this the start of the tablet wars?
mikecane 15y ago
It will be interesting to see if Amazon permits loading of competitor eBook apps. Right now, both Aldiko and Kobo are available in their App Store (I can't find Sony, that might be a search bug, maybe...). And if they do allow it, are we in for a 30% in-app purchase vig down the road ala Apple?
johnyzee 15y ago
E-ink is what makes the Kindle for me, it is such a pleasure to read off a screen that does not feel 'electric'. The months of battery life are nice too. I also don't get how TechCrunch has the e-ink devices being the 'lower cost' models, my DX was around $650, way more than this device. Lastly, I wonder how the rumored browser will work and how it will affect the pricing model. 3G connectivity is free with current Kindles. That works for Amazon because you only ever use the network to download books, and the Kindle browser is restricted essentially to wikipedia. If unrestricted browsing means I will have to pay subscription for a 3G data connection that will be a major pain in the ass compared to now. Particularly since I do not want to browse the web on my Kindle, I have better options for that.
TeMPOraL 15y ago
I wish they stop making traditional tablets and focus on e-ink displays. Or at least don't confuse names.

302 points by ssclafani 15y ago

In certain ways, this "post-PC" era that Apple's brought us into with the iPad seems like a step backward. We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume. These tablets just keep getting more and more optimized for that. I suppose it's somewhat natural, given the way the market works, but it seems our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production. I guess the opposing side is the Web. Amazon seems to be shaping up to be solidly on the side of the centralized authority-type cathedral builders, while the Web and Web technologies are more bazaar-like. It seems more and more like Google is the only powerful singular force whose incentives align with the Web instead of with more centralized production hubs.

ugh 15y ago
Whut? I just happily browsed the web, listened to podcasts, checked my RSS feeds and flicked through my Twitter stream for six hours during a train ride on my iPad. All tasks for which the iPad – or more general the tablet form factor – is ideal. I think your argument is incoherent.
- abstractbill 15y ago
  All the things you just listed are forms of consumption, not production. The argument seems coherent enough to me. I'm not entirely convinced about the "centralized authority" part, but the "tools for consumption advancing faster than tools for production" seems true (and inevitable).
  - ugh 15y ago
    Improving consumption doesn’t imply much about creation. So what if consumption is easier? Does that mean less people will create something? Why? Creating something doesn’t get harder because consumption gets easier. I don’t see the causal connection. (That central authority bullshit is just patent nonsense.) Oh, and our tools for creation still are rapidly improving. Prices for computers have gone nothing but down. People are today able to buy a great PC and a tablet for the same price of a PC ten years ago. Software has become hugely more accessible, hardware has become so much more capable. Creating stuff was never – never – as easy as it is today. We are living in a golden age of content creation and in a golden of content consumption. Tablets will help with that, not hinder.
    - orangecat 15y ago
      Creating something doesn’t get harder because consumption gets easier. You're absolutely right that there's no necessary dichotomy, but in practice that's what's happening. The iPad could be an awesome platform for a Squeak-like development environment where you create and program a bunch of objects and have them interact with each other. But Apple won't allow such an app in their store which makes it unavailable to the large majority of users, and if they had their way jailbreaking your iPad to run it would be a federal crime. Oh, and our tools for creation still are rapidly improving. Prices for computers have gone nothing but down. People are today able to buy a great PC and a tablet for the same price of a PC ten years ago. That's true, today. But if tablets replace PCs for most people as many are predicting, PC prices will go up substantially: partly due to reduced economies of scale, and partly because reducing the market to professionals and geeks will allow more price discrimination.
      - ugh 15y ago
        Apple is not the only company in the world. Tablets will improve. You predictions of doom are way overblown.
      - griftah 15y ago
        Programming is not a content creation.
        Karunamon 15y ago
        The hell it isn't.
- rryan 15y ago
  You seem to have misunderstood. joebadmo was saying that the post-PC era seems to be more about content consumption than content production. You responded in the negative by saying you spent 6 hours consuming content, which doesn't make much sense because that would be anecdotal evidence in favor of joebadmo's argument.
  - ugh 15y ago
    We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume. That’s the sentence I was responding to. Central authority bullshit and all.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  You just listed four activites that are consumptive in nature. What was the last thing you produced on your iPad? Not just that, but even the way you use it is not the optimized-for case, I think. Apple wants to optimize you buying music, movies, books, etc. through iTunes and iBooks. Amazon is continuing this trend. Yes, the post-PC devices will continue to allow you to participate in the Web, necessarily, but they will privilege consumption over production, and centralized broadcast models over decentralized peer-to-peer ones. Because that's where the money is. In contrast, the native Web on PCs is more read-write by nature. And Web technologies are making production increasingly easier.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Yes, I do that stuff. I have always done it. I now do it on a more appropriate device. It’s consumption and it’s fun. Not something to scoff at. (Mine was more a response to the central authority bullshit which is obvious nonsense.) It doesn’t matter what I did or did not produce with the iPad. Computers are cheap, software is cheap, creation was never as easy as it is today. We are living in a golden age of content creation but content creation is not for everyone. So what.
    - joebadmo 15y ago
      Creation is much easier today, it's true. And for a while, it looked like the old model of a few rich broadcasting/production companies making things for the rest of us to sit at home and passivel consume was going away, replaced by a model where we all have the means to produce better and better stuff, where merit, originality, expressiveness, communication were rewarded more than the means to invest the necessary capital. It looked like livejournal, flickr, deviantart - the blogging revolution - was empowering a generation to turn off the television and engage in an active, participatory way in a global conversation. Not that passive consumption is inherently evil. I just was imagining a world where the power of creation is more evenly distributed. I'm a little sad to see that trend start to reverse. I agree that creation isn't for everyone. But the available tools have an effect. They encourage or discourage in subtle ways. The iPad's software keyboard imposes just a slight amount of friction on inputting text. That has an effect. It matters, to some however small degree, and it aggregates with every other way that Apple optimizes consumption over production. On centralized authority: again, the way you are consuming content is not the case Apple is optimizing for. They have allowed it, but their most sanctioned way is for you to buy content from their partners through their distribution channels. It's not a complete restriction, but an optimization of a certain model through UI. TFA's description of the new Kindle seems to follow, and, indeed, to go farther down this path. Meta: Not that I'm particularly offended, but why take such an abrasive tone? "Central authority bullshit," "obvious nonsense"? Do you simply not consider it a possibility that you didn't fully understand what I was trying to say, either because I communicated it poorly or because it doesn't align with your preconceived notions? I'm actually quite happy to be having this discussion, as it's one I've tried to have many times, but never got much uptake. But, why start with such a dismissive tone? I've seen so many threads start with mild, mutual abrasiveness and spiral quickly into full-out flamewar. Why take a step down that path? Is it so hard to be overtly civil? Honest question.
- peterbraden 15y ago
  I think your reply exemplifies his argument - you used an ipod to 'consume' media for si hours, rather than creating, which older computers may have been better suited for.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Wha? If I want to create I can. It’s never been as easy as today. You are creating a false dichotomy. The content I was consuming on my iPad – and that was my point – did not come from a central authority (no more than before when I consumed on my Laptop) and it’s enabled by the cheap tools available for content creation today. I was listening to one awesome podcast by a guy who made podcasting his job and survives (extremely successfully) from donations alone. I was browsing awesome webcomics from people who would never had a chance to make their comics accessible to as many people as they can today. I was reading awesome Harry Potter fan fiction and tales from a lawyer doing his job. All not possible only a decade (maybe two in some cases) ago. We are living in a golden ago of content creation. To be worried about tablets in that context is – sorry – crazy.
    - varunsrin 15y ago
      Was the podcast created by a guy on a iPad? How about the webcomic, do you think it was done in the iPad / Android version photoshop? Was the HP fan fiction typed on a tablet keyboard? The point the OP is trying to make is not that tablets discourage production of content at a higher level. It's that companies are spending a lot of money improving consumption device /software , instead of creative devices/software It's that there is more money is creating consumption devices, and most of the R&D is going into creating better and better consumption devices, with less focus on creation better tools for production. This is however a natural state of the free market - creating consumer-oriented consumption devices is suddenly a lot more profitable than creating devices targeted and production of content, and therefore that is where we are seeing the most innovation/investment right now.
      - ugh 15y ago
        No it wasn’t. The iPad is the wrong tool for creating that stuff. But it is awesome for consumption. Argh. This is sooooo frustrating. Why does everyone believe that it’s either the iPad or nothing? That just doesn’t make any sense at all. I don’t get it.
beaumartinez 15y ago
> our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production Our tools for production have advanced as far as they can—what major changes have the desktop and laptop PC had over the last five years?
- chc 15y ago
  There are countless times over the past several thousand years when you could have said that, but our tools for production have managed to get a bit better since 2000 BC.
- zinkem 15y ago
  Production isn't limited to what you can and can't do with a desktop PC... I think what OP is suggesting is that we should be using computers to help people actively build more stuff, as using them to aid in passive consumption of things others have made.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  That's part of my point. The R&D is going into optimizing consumption instead of enabling production. I think there's still room for making it easier for people to produce expressive content. I don't think I'm necessarily imaginative enough to think of many, or the best, but I've started to try.[0] I think some people, particularly those working on Web stuff, are also trying. But I think web software is only one vector. Other vectors include: hardware, operating systems, native applications. [0]: http://blog.byjoemoon.com/post/9325300749/a-different-kind-of-gui http://blog.byjoemoon.com/post/9325300749/a-different-kind-o...
  - niklas_a 15y ago
    I think it seems you have decided on this view and regardless of all the evidence of the contrary you are sticking with it..
  - 9999 15y ago
    In terms of desktop publishing you might be right, but I think we've seen amazing strides in the realms of audio and video production in the past ten years. It's now possible to buy cameras and audio recording gear for pennies on the dollar of what you used to pay for tools with similar capabilities. Meanwhile the software side of things has advanced just as rapidly... For example, I had to do some noise reduction on some audio recordings a couple of weeks ago and what used to take hours to do in early iterations of Protools now only takes a few clicks in Adobe's Audition (and probably in the latest version of protools too...). Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash... All of these tools have advanced considerably in the last few years, much less the last decade. Tablets have any number of interesting productivity software being developed for them (innovative word processors spring immediately to mind), but developers are severely limited by the hardware capabilities of those platforms... Obviously we won't see a full fledged version of Photoshop or Final Cut written for a tablet for many years to come, but I think we might see that eventually.
chc 15y ago
Can you explain how a tablet-form Kindle is more centralized and passive than one with physical keys? I don't follow.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  Not more than the old kindle, but more than the old model of computing, PCs with dedicated input.
  - Hawramani 15y ago
    To me things haven't really changed. The non-techy users never made good use of the freedoms of the PC-era, so to them their environment was just as restricted as the Kindle or iPad environment. As for the geeks, things haven't changed either. We find ways to open up the devices and get the freedoms we want.
    - joebadmo 15y ago
      I agree with you on the extreme ends of the spectrum. But there are plenty of people in the middle who can be encouraged in either direction by the way we construct our tools. I think the explosion of content on the web, or Web 2.0, is all the evidence you need.
      - chc 15y ago
        The iPad has also had an explosion of content. Why is that not all the evidence you need?
        joebadmo 15y ago
        Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean apps? Or some other kind of content? I'm not quite following what you mean.
        chc 15y ago
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
jccodez 15y ago
This whole thread is a great discussion. Commenting so I can come back and read the replies. I agree with many points regarding content creation vs. content consumption and the lines drawn between the two. I do believe the tablet is a great consumption device and that is a major function in the consumer market as well as business (even more so for business based on my experience with my software)
- sgns 15y ago
  Yeah! What's easily missed too is that the 'free creativity and production for all' ethos on the web – all the good stuff that got us here! - so far largely missed out on financing for most of the traditional cultural sectors. Much of what is most highly valued in our cultures has been woefully underfinanced for our entire lives. The iPad/app model – positioned between all these previously-existing devices and media/content like books/mags/+ – at least makes a start for a venue, a potentially enormously widely available venue, for content producers where they can be discovered – consumed/networked and get paid for their work by a simply enormous audience. This is not necessarily at all a boon for central distribution in the sense of the old massmedia institutions! I'd say that Apple having a lock on it – to the extent that Apple IS the central distribution channel, even if Amazon's tablet is just around the corner! – is not as important as that they provide a relatively 'flat' market for distribution – as I perceive them to do right now. To my understanding, they're basically running their stores at break-even. With Amazon coming into the picture, it's about to become SO interesting – there will be so many different business models: sellers of Gadgets, Content and Ads! EDIT: typos
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
spa942 15y ago
I don't buy the idea that tablets are getting more optimised for consumption. Just take a look at the app store to see the huge amount of music production software available, some of it replacing music $500+ hardware for $30. And even with its approval process, I find the app store a bad example of the cathedral model considering how all app makers are treated equally. Sure, you have to buy an external keyboard to write longer content on the new tablets, but if the post-PC era happens, I find it hard to believe that content creators will be stopped by that. Time will tell, of course.
OWaz 15y ago
If you don't mind would you elaborate on what type of content you meant when you said: "centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume". When I think of content the first thing that comes to mind is stuff like image editing (Photoshop, LR3,Aperture etc) and video editing because those are two realms I spend my free time in. I didn't get what you meant by your statement so that's why I asked. And just to be clear I do believe that tablets are aimed at content consumption and not so much content creation, and I believe that to be a good thing. Why? Well people don't need a $2000 laptop to surf the web and check email.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  I was referring to big studios producing expensive movies, tv shows, albums, music videos, book, and magazines.
siglesias 15y ago
Two factors have led to the perception that tablets are "consumption" devices. 1) A tablet is a computer you can hold. Books and magazines have over time become optimized for holding (see size and weight) precisely due to the ergonomics of reading. Thus one would expect that tablets, which can store a vast number of books and magazines, would be "optimized" for such content. 2) Due to (1) it makes sense to trade power for battery life and thus iPad-era tablets use ARM processors. Word processors, music editors, video editors do exist for tablets and each has full privileges to have any interface it wants by assuming the full screen. Over time that software will get more powerful as these low-power processors advance. It can't be argued that iOS itself hinders content creation, but it can be argued that slow processors do. Time will take care of this. Also I don't see consumption--by which you mean reading--to be a bad thing to do with a computer. Amazon's stated purpose for the Kindle is to enable every book in every language ever printed to be available in under a minute. That's an extraordinary vision if you think about it, and we're getting there very quickly. Hardly a step backwards.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  You're right that it's certainly a step forward for consumption. What I meant is that it's a step backward for what I saw as the trend toward a world in which the power to create things is more evenly distributed. Don't get me wrong, I have a kindle, and I love it. But it's not just optimized for reading, it's optimized for reading content that's distributed through a centrally maintained distribution channel. (And while Amazon is trying to wrest control of that channel from the traditional publishers, it's a transfer of power from one central authority to another.) Which is why I appreciate tools like Readability's 'send to kindle' bookmarklet so much: it lets me read content from the bazaar more easily. But. Even then, I had to jump through hoops and the formatting isn't great. In short, it's not optimized. Furthermore, while on the web on a PC I can read a blog post and then immediately comment, share, or respond in a blog post of my own, on my kindle I can't do any of that. I have to put my own system in place to even remember to do it later. In other words, the Kindle optimizes my consumption experience at the expense of my production experience in a way that's sort of profound in a way that I acutely feel is a step backward.
  - 15y ago
nigham 15y ago
A step backward is hardly the way I'd put it. Consumption-related technology as well as production related technologies are improving dramatically; we perceive the pace of consumption technology as being faster because consumption technology is far more applicable, and affects more users, and so it's more on the news. This is not a problem, there have always been more readers than writers, movie watchers than movie producers, software users than software creators. There isn't too much discussion when there's a new version of Photoshop, or VIM, or Django, or Wordpress, or countless other technologies (e.g. http://www.asciiflow.com/ http://www.asciiflow.com/) and platforms that help with content creation. One reason I read HN is that these items usually make it here. It's easier to create content now than at any time in the past. How many people built software before iOS and Android? A few folks scattered across huge companies that either built consumer products or provided services for those companies. Today, iOS has half a million apps -- somebody produced them. Arguably the 'consumption-only' device that you think has taken us a step backward has given tens of thousands of people incentive to produce something. Amazon's vision is for authors to be able to self-publish without going through the hassle of publishers, giving more incentive for people to produce. Whereas making movies was once a task for multibillion dollar studios, Youtube has enabled something like the Khan Academy to start earning money by producing content. You cannot have better and better consumption oriented devices in a vacuum. Someone has to produce what the masses are consuming.
- estel 15y ago
  With respect to app development, which has been incredible in how widespread it's become, it's possible it's just an extension of what the Web started: incredible democratisation of creation.
  - sgns 15y ago
    Great point! Illustrates just how we're still living with the implications of just how the first extremely undemocratic reality of 'code as content' – first encapsulated in program devlopment, then going through a slight democratization route regarding computer usage through the Macintosh, and moving on through the html web – still is playing out. One can at least see that the path-to-market of content has been democratized with the web over time… and the App stores/'App paradigm' are also helpful in making it possible for more to program. I think a big part of our dilemmas have had to do with how isolated and abstract programming and development have been compared to mainstream society. A relative 'mainstreaming' of programming is still an incredible thought – yet it is happening right now! Whatever happens to our present jobs, I can't help but think that the infusion of new programming talent is about to create a new reality – a wave that could lift a great number of us – given appropriate channels for us all to contribute so much more than regular business logic programming - and us people practicing and getting ready to catch it! (over the top eh? :)
swlkr 15y ago
I totally agree with this.
blrgeek 15y ago
Think of the post-PC tablets as replacing TVs/books/browsers/iPods in time spent consuming content. Content consumption devices (aka radio, TV, books, mp3 players) have not had a significant advance in decades. The browser was the first new conduit that moved people away from these devices. These people used a PC, but merely as a content consumption device, NOT as a content creation device! Now tablets - which are mostly hardware for browsers, becoming more so with 'cloud' services - are becoming personal content consumption devices. As long as there's a browser, it's a window to the world of content - not just the central authority's content. For so long producers have wanted to have a powerful computing device in every hand. Now that day is closer!
HSO 15y ago
I'm growing more and more irritated by the classification of "reading" as "consumption". Consumption is usually defined as a sink of goods (as opposed to "investment" or "production"). Reading per se, however, does not result in anything vanishing from the system. It _can_ mean that but usually the ideas or perspectives contained in the book or article change the ideas or perspectives of the reader. Reading _can_ be pure consumption, for sure, but that describes a specific type of reading. One could argue that buying a physical copy and tossing it after you're done is the act of consumption. But then the consumption really concerns only the physical medium, not the content. Am I splitting hairs? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I feel the more people talk about reading as something "for passive users to consume", the more it narrows the industry perspective on what transmitting ideas between people means or could mean.
- astine 15y ago
  "Am I splitting hairs?" You are, but let me split them further. Any expense can be classified as either a capital expense or a consumptive one. Expenses classified as one can usually, with a few logical contortions, also be classified as the other. For example, food is the classical consumptive expense, but one could also treat it as an investment as food keeps one alive (and healthy hopefully) and allows one to work in the future. I think that the same can be said about reading here. If you buy a book, it's an expense, and if you read it, you've "consumed" it. Sure you can read it again or someone else can read it, but it's still a consumer good. I think what people mean here is that devices like this and the iPad are not generally geared to the production of works and more to their consumption. What I mean is, while reading a book on the Amazon Kindle might be an investment in your own mind and future, the Kindle doesn't enable one to author his own books. The web however, does enable one to put up his own webpage or blog (if you can figure it out.) I think this is what people are talking about here. It has to do with our place in the economics of the thing.
_debug_ 15y ago
Apple has not brought us anywhere in particular : people have always been that passive. The iPad's popularity is because of the lack of a keyboard for these 95% of the population. For folks like you and me, it is despite the lack of a keyboard.

Lewisham 15y ago

If Amazon are going to maintain an Android fork, I wonder how well Android apps will be able to play with it. It would be a huge disappointment if 2.2+ apps were unavailable (or installing Google Market for that matter). I can see why Amazon has gone down this path, but I do wonder if it's the right thing, rather than doing everyone's favorite/most hated carrier-specific bolt-ons instead. I also hope that Amazon doesn't give up on color e-ink, because reading on a Kindle is so much nicer.

wccrawford 15y ago
The article says there's no Google Market. Only Amazon's. As for forking, I'm guessing it's not really a fork. It's just got their own UI on top, but they'll continue to get the rest of the updates from Google.
- rryan 15y ago
  In that sense of a fork, all manufacturers of Android have forked it. I assume if they (or the person who showed it to MG) called it a fork that would be more significant than just a custom UI (which Android is designed to facilitate).
  - wanorris 15y ago
    The "Google Experience" has always been an optional part of Android that required additional licensing, but all the major Android manufacturers have licensed it. The lack of it means that this diverges from the typical Android device much more than Samsung, HTC, or Motorola devices. When you throw in the fact that the main shell is considerably different (a content browser rather than a widget environment), I'd say that the use of the term "fork" is understandable, even if not quite right.
- estel 15y ago
  If this device has no physical buttons, then it seems likely that it would have to be a true fork.

georgemcbay 15y ago

Sounds pretty good to me with the exception of "pre-2.2". No Dalvik JIT? Hopefully that part was a misunderstanding. Having run pre-Froyo and Froyo+ on the same device, the jit engine is a pretty big deal.

markgx 15y ago

Amazon could carve out the "sub-iPad" tablet market if their $250 price point holds and they release a usable tablet. Look at what happened with the HP firesale.

jmelloy 15y ago

I think it's interesting that everybody is attempting to differentiate on top of the Android kernel, and are forced to build their own skin to compete. Free Prime memebership (for life?) is interesting. Amazon has a big content catalog, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense for them to go this alone and not be forced to use Google's shit app store. Overall, I think they'll have trouble differentiating between them and the iPad and them and the nook Color, and it doesn't seem like they've really brought anything new to the table.

crenshaw 15y ago
Prime membership is a genius move by Amazon. Since getting Prime I buy things at the drop of a hat. I literally think I order about 10x more product from Amazon now than before Prime. The fact they can give this away as a benefit is a double win for them.
fuzzythinker 15y ago
No way. It will be a year at best to hook people to it. It will be their "blade" to the tablet "razor".
- evilduck 15y ago
  Probably true. I have Amazon Mom and the free Prime is only good for a year, there's no way they'd give away lifetime free shipping on such a cheap device.

mootothemax 15y ago

I've been sorely tempted to pick up a Kindle for the last few months, and had thought it'd make a nice Christmas present. I know - I'm so considerate. Given that the present version has been out for a while, I was wondering if an updated version would be released in time for the Christmas rush. 10 hour battery life, not going to fit in at the beach, nor the less safe parts of the city? Nah, I'll go for the current Kindle instead thanks :)

mattm 15y ago
I debated over getting the Kindle for a while but since getting it about 6 weeks ago it is by far my favourite device. I'm reading so much more now (and spending much more on books). I just wish I got it sooner.
estel 15y ago
This doesn't negate releasing an update of the e-ink Kindle; though I don't think this will necessarily happen. I can definitely see another Kindle pricedrop on the cards for the Holiday season though.

ajg1977 15y ago

If there's one thing they need to nail on this device (beyond the Kindle app) it's web browsing. a $250 7" tablet with a top class browser is a hugely compelling product all by itself.

sandGorgon 15y ago
There have been several white-label 8'' multitouch tablets for a long time. http://www.androidtabletspcs.com/8-Inch-Android-2-3-Tablet-PC-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-Digital-TFT-1024-768-Camera-WIFI-Bluetooth-CR-8002HD.html http://www.androidtabletspcs.com/8-Inch-Android-2-3-Tablet-P... For example - the tablet above has A8 Cortex, gingerbread and dual-cameras.
- shinratdr 15y ago
  Not to mention this: > resolution 800*600(4:3) Yeah, I think I'll pass. This is the problem with all of those off label Android tablets (and the cheaper brand name ones too, looking at you Viewsonic & Acer) they have runoff parts from production of knockoff phones so they frequently have serious issues, they can be completely unusable depending on how much or how little slack the community picks up, and without exception the screens are absolutely atrocious. I just picked up an Acer Iconia A100 for $300 and it has the shittiest TFT screen I have seen on a tablet, ever. It's going right back to the store because of it. A tablet comes together. It's not a good screen, a good OS, a good CPU, a good GPU, etc... It's all of those things executed well and working harmoniously. If it's not, it might as well be a paperweight. If you like screwing around constantly to get things working, inconsistent features and completely random manufacturer support, then grab an off label tablet or a cheap non-Google sanctioned tablet. You want a device that can do more than read e-books, browse the web poorly and play Angry Birds at 75% framerate if you're lucky, then consider waiting a month or two and saving up the money for something that you won't grow to hate.
  - sandGorgon 15y ago
    actually this is the 1024x768 res display. I dont know why the disparity in description.

psychotik 15y ago

This could become a potential nightmare for app developers. Assuming they don't break public APIs in their custom fork, developers are still going to need to worry about backward compatibility and not being able to provide advanced features for their apps on Android devices. Couple that with problems with payments/in-app purchases and this is just a nightmare waiting to happen for Android developers. If the forked-OS stuff is true, this feels like a bad move by Amazon.

bishnu 15y ago
Or, It's a nightmare for Amazon's competitors making Honeycomb tablets, the sales of which are so mediocre that if the Kindle Tablet gains any traction at ALL developers will wonder why bother with any other Android tablet?

ipsin 15y ago

I'm not interested unless it's: 1) easily flashable with an actual Android ROM (a la Nook/cyanogen) 2) got a 3G data connection, similar to the current 3G kindle If both are true, it's a really compelling device.

m0nastic 15y ago
It sounds like you want a Galaxy Tab 7 for $250. I'd actually be surprised if Amazon allows it to be reflashed (insofar as you can actually restrict it). That would eliminate their entire point in selling it (their ecosystem of content).
Anti-Ratfish 15y ago
Try a different route. How about getting amazon android (what do you call it?) running on a touchpad. Damn knows how you would do it. Would be a lot cheaper than buying the colour kindle though and the touchpad includes a few of those features you want (but probably no software to run them). If the story is correct and colour kindle does look like a playbook then I'd argue that the touchpad looks better too.

mrinterweb 15y ago

I heard a lot of rumor that the rumored Amazon tablet would use a Qualcomm Mirasol passive color display technology with a refresh rate capable of running video. I wonder if this rumor is still circulating or confirmed.

scarmig 15y ago
Unfortunately, last I heard was that the Mirasol project had in some way been cancelled, though the technology is still actively being improved. It'll be awhile before we get Mirasol =(

drivebyacct2 15y ago

Google's applications are not part of Android. Putting a skin on Android and not shipping it with Google apps is NOT a fork. Even if you want to consider it one in a technical definition, it's not a significant one. It's as much a fork of Android as CyanogenMod is. (CM does not come with Google Apps, though they can be added after-the-fact).

Adaptive 15y ago
You made the most important comment in this thread. I really would like to see TC clear this up. Do they really mean fork or, as I suspect and as you state, is this just Android without the google apps baked in? Market is a bigger question. Without considering manually side loading the apps, I'm assuming that users will be able to install google apps on the device as they are, for the most part, all available via Android Market right now. Given that Amazon doesn't provide mail, maps or any of the other useful google apps, I'm assuming that users will be able to download them from Android Market, somehow.
- trotsky 15y ago
  It won't have android market access without a hack, just Amazon's market. The lack of a camera (among other things) means it doesn't meet the hardware standards google requires for shipping google apps which includes the market. Not that Amazon would want to anyway, they clearly would like to drive traffic to their store.
  - Adaptive 15y ago
    That all sounds right but still, what kind of compelling is an android tablet without gmail? I can't imagine they expect people to put up with imap. I can understand the drive-traffic-to-our-content-ecosystem, but there's some stuff a tablet just has to do these days. Then again, no camera, maybe they are positioning it as a fancy kindle, in which $250 is too much.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  I feel slimy making this comment, but "trotsky is completely correct". Users can't side load Google Apps, because they require the Market. The Market (and it's underlying dependency of Google Talk [yes, it sounds funny, look it up, I wish I were kidding]), requires special installation and components that frankly I can't explain (I don't know how to). But I know enough to tell you that you can't simply download Market.apk and install it.

rshm 15y ago

$250 is too much. Ebay/Amazon has similar specs 800MHz/7"/Android 2.2 for $87 and below with a free shipping.

potatolicious 15y ago
All of the below products launched, at the time, with poorer spec sheet features/price than their competitors, and then proceeded to annihilate said competitors: - MacBook/Pro - iPhone - BlackBerry - iPod - Android - Wii When are we as the geek community going to stop worshipping the spec sheet and realize that mainstream consumers can't give two shits about it?
frou_dh 15y ago
Is it remotely possible that an $87 tablet from eBay won't be complete garbage?
srdev 15y ago
My wife has one of those $87 Android 2.2 tablets and they're near-unusable. We had to replace the clunky firmware to a real Google Marketplace rather than a Chinese knock-off. Even then, the performance was sub-par. The thing struggled to even perform the most basic UI operations. There is a market for a quality tablet at a $250 price point.

Fjslfj 15y ago

Facebook is forking Android in a similar fashion.

superuser2 15y ago

E-ink made the Kindle. Tablets are exciting, but reading a novel on a backlit screen is no fun, and if it were, we'd read on our cell phones, because they're easier to carry around. This is disappointing. The Kindle 2 (the model I had) did one thing, and one thing phenomenally well. I don't want my kindle to be a Swiss army knife.

starwed 15y ago
The article does say that: >Amazon has been working on a multi-touch screen/e-ink hybrid tablet device. Presumably it's just much, much easier to develop the backlit tablet than one using e-ink. The technology will be there eventually, but it might take a while... :(
- mikecane 15y ago
  It could mean either a Pixel Qi or Mirasol screen.
wvenable 15y ago
Amazon is more than just books or at least they want to be. E-ink is great for books. But if you want to sell music, movies, and games then you need something like this.
kyleslattery 15y ago
I would be surprised if Amazon ditches their existing Kindle. I'm sure this will just be an addition to the product lineup, rather than a replacement.
- mikecane 15y ago
  Bezos on Charlie Rose: -They want a purpose-built device where no tradeoffs have been made, where every single design decision as you’re walking down the process has been made to optimize for reading. -The number one thing that people are doing on their iPad right now if you look at the rankings is playing a game called “Angry Birds” where you throw birds at pigs and the pigs blow up. The number one thing that people are doing on their Kindle right now is reading Stieg Larsson.

blinkingled 15y ago

* Google’s Android Market is nowhere to be found. In fact,no Google app is anywhere to be found. This is Android fully forked. My understanding is that the Kindle OS was built on top of some version of Android prior to 2.2.* MG goes on to say it is smooth and responsive. And I think many Apps are going to be incompatible with anything less than Android 2.2. Given this I would think Amazon will want to have at least 2.2 on there. Would be kinda sad if they ran 1.6 on it in 2011! [Edit] May be it is 2.1 - AWS SDK for Android Requires Android 2.1 (API Level 7) or higher. Oh well may be they will keep it up to date!

AndrewClyde 15y ago

I think the Kindle-branded tablet will be successful and manage to compete with the iPad. However, it's not going to win in the way people expect it to; I think it'll bring a lot of people into the post-PC tablet world and introduce a cheap tablet to a lot of people, but it's not going to revolutionize anything major and won't be able to do anything the iPad and/or TouchPad can't do.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

d0m 15y ago

Any TL;DR with a picture?

andrewpi 15y ago
Gizmodo took the description and created a mock-up: http://gizmodo.com/5837061/this-is-amazons-kindle-tablet http://gizmodo.com/5837061/this-is-amazons-kindle-tablet

Steko 15y ago

Five or Six Things That Occurred In My Brain When I Read This Article: (1) $250 with free Prime? Buying one for sure, maybe two. (2) No camera? Ugg. At least a front facing camera for Skype pls, I'll pay extra. (3) November, meh I was hoping late September. (4) Eclair fork? That has to be wrong lots of optimizations made in Froyo which has been available for over a year. (5) Maybe this provided some additional incentive for Google to withhold Honeycomb source? (6) MG Siegler continues to break character and occasionally commit actual journalism. Would love to see this trend continue.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
kemayo 15y ago
I'm very interested to hear the details of "free Prime". Depending on the implementation then this might suddenly become a thing I will buy because it makes financial sense, regardless of its technical merit.
- mortenjorck 15y ago
  1 year? Nice perk. 2 years? Effectively sub-$100 tablet. 3 years? Paying for itself.
Tichy 15y ago
No camera = dealbreaker for me. At least in theory. In practice, Skype seems very slow on actually supporting video chat anyway :-(

gamble 15y ago

This will have a hard time competing with the iPad internationally, if it really is focused on deep integration with their digital stores. Amazon has been extremely reluctant to roll out their content stores beyond the US. For example, they still haven't expanded their mp3 store to Canada.

xxpor 15y ago
I doubt it's due to reluctance, but licensing issues.
- gamble 15y ago
  It seems to be standard procedure for Amazon. They carry a far wider selection of products on the American site than any of their international stores. Until the last few years they basically only sold media in Canada.
  - xxpor 15y ago
    That may be more logistical issues.

gfodor 15y ago

This is cool and all, but I'd really like Amazon to make a DX with an extra inch of space, so it's the size of a real book, and I can read PDFs on it without squinting.

achompas 15y ago

By far the most interesting quote from Siegler's article: Overall, the UI of this Kindle felt very responsive. You can flick through the carousel seamlessly. This is something Amazon has apparently been working on quite a bit, I’m told. And they continue to. If Amazon gets this right, they're a long way towards recreating the iPad UX. In fact, this entire article suggests that the Kindle tablet will be the first widely adopted non-iPad tablet. In addition to the above: 1. The interface sounds great. I am a humongous fan of the Kindle Cloud Reader and iOS interfaces, and I believe they're designed very well. Users can expect a well-designed tablet from Amazon. 2. Users can draw from a central source for their content. Amazon will provide all the movies, music, and books you need--something every other Android tablet has lacked so far. Mainstream users will appreciate the centralized content provision, especially from a company as respected as Amazon. 3. Cutting the Android Market solves a lot of potential issues: no spyware, no OS incompatibilities, no apps with large hardware requirements. Everything in the Amazon Appstore will work on this Kindle (I expect it to be a requirement for admission). This tablet sounds very...Apple-like. A very closed ecosystem with access to interesting content and a curated app store. I would buy it if I was shopping for a tablet.

enjo 15y ago
But we already have that. Why woud you buy it? Is it just that it's cheaper? Are developers going to want to build apps for it? I think breaking away to complete Android incompatibility is a huge mistake.
- achompas 15y ago
  It's not just cheaper--it's 50% less than the price of a new iPad. That's a substantial difference.
  - bradleyland 15y ago
    I think you're the first person in this thread to really "get it". To answer some of the parent's questions: Q) Why would you buy it? A) Because it's significantly less expensive (more within reach). Because it's Amazon, and it will have ready access to: music, movies, books, and an exemplary shopping experience for a wide variety of products. This experience will be well integrated with the device, and in the traditional Amazon way, everything will be extremely easy. "From the people that brought you 1-click purchasing." Q) Is it just that it's cheaper? A) You say "just that it's cheaper" as if that's insignificant. Did you see the way HP TouchPads flew off the shelves at $99? Do you know anyone smart enough, or with enough experience, to say that a properly priced Amazon Tablet won't fly off the shelves at half the cost of an iPad? Q) Are developers going to want to build apps for it? A) On a cached copy of their "Inside Amazon" page [1], they state: "Over 137 million active Amazon customer accounts". If I recall correctly, Steve jobs was proud of the fact that iTMS had over 100 million customers with credit cards on file. With 137 million active customers, they've got a massive base to which they can market. 1 - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CwHkwbSb-IIJ:www.amazon.com/Inside-Careers-Homepage/b%3Fie%3DUTF8%26node%3D239367011+amazon+active+customer+accounts&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CwHkwbS...

AdamGibbins 15y ago

I really hope they don't hope to make this a replacement for their eink non-backlit devices. That would be a disaster :(

docgnome 15y ago
Agreed. No eink, not interested.

systems 15y ago

First you think its a revolution, then it calms down to en evolution. From tablets to Notebooks 1. First come tablets 2. Then tablets gets a stand (so you dont have to hold them all the time) 3. Then tablets gets a keyboard (so you can type quickly) 4. Then tablets gets a mouse like device (so you dont have to touch the screen while on the stand) 5. Then they run (your favorite distro of) linux 6. Then they become keyboard-less more portable laptops 7. Then we call them notebooks

kloncks 15y ago

A lot of people questioned whether or not there was a market for a CrunchPad, or a cheap entry tablet. Looks like this will validate that. Now, if only webOS could chime in and make this an interesting battle. That would be special.

tricolon 15y ago

I really don't get the point of a Kindle with a battery life of only 10 hours.

hugh3 15y ago
Do you read for more than ten hours at a stretch? Personally I'd kill for a tablet that could last the eighteen hours door-to-door from SFO to SYD, but hey, ten hours is a good start.
- tricolon 15y ago
  Only sometimes. Right now, though, my Kindle is very convenient: I only have to charge it every couple weeks or so. Just like my trusty Nokia from 2002.

rospaya 15y ago

Wonder if they'll be selling it internationally, like a Kindle. The major difference is that this probably won't have a 3G connection so it should be even simpler.

SwellJoe 15y ago

I was momentarily excited...until I read the description of the new Kindle. I played with a Nook a few weeks ago, and almost bought one. $249 is nearly an impulse purchase price point. But, I already had a netbook, a Kindle, a laptop, a Nexus One (which broke a few days ago, to be replaced by a Sensation), a desktop, and a DS, so I talked myself out of it. One of the big reasons is because I wouldn't be able to get rid of my existing Kindle. The Kindle has a killer feature, which I can't replicate: International 3G Internet for free. It's a piss poor excuse for a web browser, but when I'm out of the country, I can google "wifi hotspot city-name" and find a place to connect my netbook or laptop and get some work done. This is a miracle for someone that travels as much as I do. The battery life is also spectacular. Since I travel in a motorhome, and sometimes go days without plugging in, the ability to read books without having to think about charging my ebook reader is awesome. So, the two really awesome things about the current Kindle that I have, are not present in the Android Kindle. Also, the fact that they've forked Android hard makes me more than a little hesitant to consider it. My new phone is only a slight divergence from standard Android, and I find it annoying as hell...I'll probably be rooting it and putting a more standard Android on it when I have more free time. The notion of a total fork without a standard Market and all the Google apps (Maps is my lifeline when travelling), and possibly without some of the other apps I rely on, is just crazy. It's hard to imagine such a thing not sucking. In short, it sounds like I'll be better served by a Nook, should I decide to buy a little ebook/tablet. At least it is readily converted to a standard Android device. Or, maybe I'll just wait out the next round of tablets...or, maybe I'll just not buy a tablet. I still have yet to figure out what I'd use one for. They seem to be highly focused consumption devices, and I do enough consumption as it is.

rwmj 15y ago
I'm liking (not "loving") my rooted Nook Color with CM7 nightlies. It was, above all, a cheap tablet, and given the limitations of the price it works rather well. However for the reasons you outlined in your comment, it's not a great e-reader. The Nook is better as a sort of cheap web browser for looking up recipes in the kitchen, looking at Google Maps, and web browsing when my wife is using the main computer.
mikecane 15y ago

6ren 15y ago

Won't be as successful as the Kindle, because the kindle is exceptionally tailored to its usage of buying and reading books - whereas this is android dragged half-way there. And android tablets haven't been doing well anyway (20:80), even the very best of them. The 3G kindle's tailoring is: - free 3G (yes, free), to buy amazon books - black and white E-Ink which is much closer to paper than colour displays. - much lighter and slimmer (241grams; 8.5oz) - long battery life (2 months - about x60 longer than a tablet), though this probably overshoots the need. i.e. they'd be better off using a smaller battery (or even AA batteries). I'm so impressed with the Kindle because it resists trying to be the best at everything, but instead makes comprises that optimize it for its purpose. Whereas the Android tablet described here is much worse on all fronts and half-hearted as Android: neither fish nor fowl.

eyko 15y ago

I'm buying.

listic 15y ago

Does anyone know how durable are the current e-ink readers? May it be so that Amazon moves away from e-ink readers in particular because they can't be made reliable? I like to read books and I was a theoretical fan of e-ink readers, but I never owned one. My younger brother, on the other hand, was against them: "why buy the device that only reads books?" On a recent trip to the countryside he borrowed a (PocketBook 301 plus) reader from a friend and put it in the tent's pocket together with a phone, iPod and other such stuff. In the morning, he found that the screen failed because it had a tiny crack. Maybe someone accidentally kicked it or something, but modern phones, iPod and such withstand abuse rather well, and this thing broke after one night - it even was in its own leather case that covers the screen! Googling revealed that cracking screen is a common issue. I start to suspect that those e-ink screen are a flawed technology as they are. There might be a reason Sony makes their readers with a metallic case, but do they last even then?

mikecane 15y ago
>>>There might be a reason Sony makes their readers with a metallic case Used to. The latest Reader WiFi is all-plastic.

rmc 15y ago

Is this the start of the tablet wars?

mikecane 15y ago

It will be interesting to see if Amazon permits loading of competitor eBook apps. Right now, both Aldiko and Kobo are available in their App Store (I can't find Sony, that might be a search bug, maybe...). And if they do allow it, are we in for a 30% in-app purchase vig down the road ala Apple?

johnyzee 15y ago

E-ink is what makes the Kindle for me, it is such a pleasure to read off a screen that does not feel 'electric'. The months of battery life are nice too. I also don't get how TechCrunch has the e-ink devices being the 'lower cost' models, my DX was around $650, way more than this device. Lastly, I wonder how the rumored browser will work and how it will affect the pricing model. 3G connectivity is free with current Kindles. That works for Amazon because you only ever use the network to download books, and the Kindle browser is restricted essentially to wikipedia. If unrestricted browsing means I will have to pay subscription for a 3G data connection that will be a major pain in the ass compared to now. Particularly since I do not want to browse the web on my Kindle, I have better options for that.

TeMPOraL 15y ago

I wish they stop making traditional tablets and focus on e-ink displays. Or at least don't confuse names.