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Is it normal for researchers to get paid that much money directly to one of their bank accounts for collaborating with outside universities? If it's not normal,

Is it normal for researchers to get paid that much money directly to one of their bank accounts for collaborating with outside universities? If it's not normal, doesn't that smell a whole lot like a bribe to you? It could be benign I guess but it definitely could also be a state sponsored or run operation to steal tech. It's not like China doesn't and hasn't pilfered outside businesses for their own interests.

lordnacho 5y ago
IP law is what it is, but you can make very good arguments that it (esp patents) doesn't actually help society at large, and that it shouldn't exist in its current form. I think you'll find a lot of people on HN who would back that. Somehow when it comes to China, people grab for any excuse to criticize them and "stealing tech" is one of them. Certainly it is possible to come about knowledge by nefarious means, but that doesn't mean that it isn't legitimate for China to try to learn things from other people. As for some professor getting paid, tech profs can be a pretty hot commodity, so it's not in itself surprising that a prof is making big bucks teaching people about his subject and perhaps also introducing his network.
- zpeti 5y ago
  This is all very nice and for example Apple could share all their IP and give away their iPhone IP to china IF THEY WANT TO. It's a free world (in the US anyway). But that's not what is going on here. In the current framework we live in, there is IP and there is knowledge and that knowledge is funded and worked on under certain rules. If you break those rules there are consequences.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    That is not the framework we have. National sovereignty exists and if the Chinese don't want to follow IP law in some way that is their right. Most third world countries wish they couldn't, they just get strongarmed. It's not a free world when the US and Europe are trying to impose their laws on you, and if you refuse to follow their laws then their citizens are prohibited from dealing with yours.
    - ehvatum 5y ago
      It is the framework we have; as a result of China’s WTO accession, that’s the framework. They literally agreed to an IP framework.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Then you can try to convince the WTO to impose consequences if it really is the framework. In reality while this would work for a weaker developing country it probably won't work here.
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      China might be sovereign, but the professor isn't. Notice how China isn't expected to show up in court.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        The professor is not accused of IP offenses. This is a few steps removed from that.
- roenxi 5y ago
  There is an excellent argument that IP law doesn't help society at large - that is why China is ignoring IP law. They need to grow their economy ASAP to protect themselves from the United States military, and the strategy seems to involve technical dominance. They can't do that if they weigh themselves down with IP laws; they already have enough problems with innovation. That observation is entirely consistent with the US wanting to be exceedingly careful about IP exfiltrating to China.
  - defaultprimate 5y ago
    >protect themselves from the United States military Protect themselves from the US military how? When they start imperial subjugation campaigns...or? China's malicious aspirations are the only thing the US is concerned with.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Neither China nor the US are, historically or currently, moral pillars for the just use of military power. It's clear enough to note that China has short-term aspirations of invading a sovereign state, and leave it at that.
      - defaultprimate 5y ago
        One actively cultivated a culture of establishing an absolutist surveillance state resulting in the death and torture of tens of millions, often at the hands of their own children, in the course of a decade or so, is currently participating in genocide, has institutionally striven to sustain an ethnostate, treats their population like cattle, and exercises extrajudicial imprisonment and execution against vast swaths of the population to preserve political power. There is no comparison of morality between the US and China. For all its faults and failures the US is unequivocally a more moral and just nation. Let's not just leave it at that. I won't let you deceptively downplay the egregious evil China is and has been responsible for. It's directly responsible for multiple events that when measured over the course of history, are the most insane human atrocities ever committed.
- bettysdiagnose 5y ago
  The USA stole tech from the British Empire when the US was trying to build itself up. This is just the natural order of things, and I'm very anti-China and very pro-Taiwan.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Industrial espionage is different from ignoring IP laws. I would be fine with China doing away with IP as a concept, but that’s not what their doing. I don’t support the Chinese government due to their active genocide along with the horrific subjugation of the population, but it’s a judgement on a case by case basis.
  - refurb 5y ago
    How much media do you see around shitting on India for their IP stance?
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      A lot, especially in pharma. I expect if their economy was anywhere near China it would be even more.
  - adventured 5y ago
    > The USA stole tech from the British Empire when the US was trying to build itself up. The US contributed as much new, prominent technology to the industrial revolution as any other nation. A quick trip down the list of prominent US inventions of the era nicely demonstrates that. There's no foundation to claim that the US stole more technology than Britain did going the other direction. It's a Reddit-knowledge bumper sticker claim that is almost exclusively utilized in threads like this one, and is never substantially supported in discussion (because it's exceptionally difficult to prove that US technology theft was meaningfully out of line with what eg major European economic powers were doing during the industrial revolution).
    - szhsh 5y ago
      China has contributed a huge amount of technological development as well. Just look at Huawei's leading role in developing 5G. China didn't care about IP law 30 years ago, but it does now. Yet when Westerners discuss this issue, they usually talk as if we were still in 1990 or 2000, when China was the Wild West of IP. In 2021, that's no longer the case. For a developing country, China actually has pretty strong IP laws and enforcement. There's just as much IP litigation in China as there is in the US, and foreign companies have a pretty good success rate in Chinese IP courts.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  > IP law is what it is, but you can make very good arguments that it (esp patents) doesn't actually help society at large, and that it shouldn't exist in its current form. I think you'll find a lot of people on HN who would back that. Software patents generally suck and most IP laws grant monopoly for too long. But also, some IP law is needed. I'd be willing to bet 90+% of HN would sign on to that. > Somehow when it comes to China, people grab for any excuse to criticize them and "stealing tech" is one of them I'd rather they not be relaxed for the express purpose of sharing technology and methods with an authoritarian government that promotes itself as the US's rival. Again, I'd be willing to bet most of HN would cosign that. I'm always really frustrated by comments that are like "HN/group always says X but now they're saying Y! So inconsistent!" Like it's somehow mandatory to completely disregard context and degree when forming opinions. It's not. You can say no to sex with someone without committing to celibacy. I'd be perfectly comfortable showing up on capital Hill and yelling that Biden shits his pants, but I would not be comfortable showing up in Beijing calling Xi Winnie the Pooh. It's ok if that informs my level of comfort supporting the technological progression of the respective institutions. > As for some professor getting paid, tech profs can be a pretty hot commodity, so it's not in itself surprising that a prof is making big bucks teaching people about his subject and perhaps also introducing his network. Tons of professors make good money. Great money. That has nothing to do with why this guy is in the news.

lordnacho 5y ago

IP law is what it is, but you can make very good arguments that it (esp patents) doesn't actually help society at large, and that it shouldn't exist in its current form. I think you'll find a lot of people on HN who would back that. Somehow when it comes to China, people grab for any excuse to criticize them and "stealing tech" is one of them. Certainly it is possible to come about knowledge by nefarious means, but that doesn't mean that it isn't legitimate for China to try to learn things from other people. As for some professor getting paid, tech profs can be a pretty hot commodity, so it's not in itself surprising that a prof is making big bucks teaching people about his subject and perhaps also introducing his network.

zpeti 5y ago
This is all very nice and for example Apple could share all their IP and give away their iPhone IP to china IF THEY WANT TO. It's a free world (in the US anyway). But that's not what is going on here. In the current framework we live in, there is IP and there is knowledge and that knowledge is funded and worked on under certain rules. If you break those rules there are consequences.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  That is not the framework we have. National sovereignty exists and if the Chinese don't want to follow IP law in some way that is their right. Most third world countries wish they couldn't, they just get strongarmed. It's not a free world when the US and Europe are trying to impose their laws on you, and if you refuse to follow their laws then their citizens are prohibited from dealing with yours.
  - ehvatum 5y ago
    It is the framework we have; as a result of China’s WTO accession, that’s the framework. They literally agreed to an IP framework.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Then you can try to convince the WTO to impose consequences if it really is the framework. In reality while this would work for a weaker developing country it probably won't work here.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    China might be sovereign, but the professor isn't. Notice how China isn't expected to show up in court.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      The professor is not accused of IP offenses. This is a few steps removed from that.
roenxi 5y ago
There is an excellent argument that IP law doesn't help society at large - that is why China is ignoring IP law. They need to grow their economy ASAP to protect themselves from the United States military, and the strategy seems to involve technical dominance. They can't do that if they weigh themselves down with IP laws; they already have enough problems with innovation. That observation is entirely consistent with the US wanting to be exceedingly careful about IP exfiltrating to China.
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  >protect themselves from the United States military Protect themselves from the US military how? When they start imperial subjugation campaigns...or? China's malicious aspirations are the only thing the US is concerned with.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Neither China nor the US are, historically or currently, moral pillars for the just use of military power. It's clear enough to note that China has short-term aspirations of invading a sovereign state, and leave it at that.
    - defaultprimate 5y ago
      One actively cultivated a culture of establishing an absolutist surveillance state resulting in the death and torture of tens of millions, often at the hands of their own children, in the course of a decade or so, is currently participating in genocide, has institutionally striven to sustain an ethnostate, treats their population like cattle, and exercises extrajudicial imprisonment and execution against vast swaths of the population to preserve political power. There is no comparison of morality between the US and China. For all its faults and failures the US is unequivocally a more moral and just nation. Let's not just leave it at that. I won't let you deceptively downplay the egregious evil China is and has been responsible for. It's directly responsible for multiple events that when measured over the course of history, are the most insane human atrocities ever committed.
bettysdiagnose 5y ago
The USA stole tech from the British Empire when the US was trying to build itself up. This is just the natural order of things, and I'm very anti-China and very pro-Taiwan.
- Retric 5y ago
  Industrial espionage is different from ignoring IP laws. I would be fine with China doing away with IP as a concept, but that’s not what their doing. I don’t support the Chinese government due to their active genocide along with the horrific subjugation of the population, but it’s a judgement on a case by case basis.
- refurb 5y ago
  How much media do you see around shitting on India for their IP stance?
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    A lot, especially in pharma. I expect if their economy was anywhere near China it would be even more.
- adventured 5y ago
  > The USA stole tech from the British Empire when the US was trying to build itself up. The US contributed as much new, prominent technology to the industrial revolution as any other nation. A quick trip down the list of prominent US inventions of the era nicely demonstrates that. There's no foundation to claim that the US stole more technology than Britain did going the other direction. It's a Reddit-knowledge bumper sticker claim that is almost exclusively utilized in threads like this one, and is never substantially supported in discussion (because it's exceptionally difficult to prove that US technology theft was meaningfully out of line with what eg major European economic powers were doing during the industrial revolution).
  - szhsh 5y ago
    China has contributed a huge amount of technological development as well. Just look at Huawei's leading role in developing 5G. China didn't care about IP law 30 years ago, but it does now. Yet when Westerners discuss this issue, they usually talk as if we were still in 1990 or 2000, when China was the Wild West of IP. In 2021, that's no longer the case. For a developing country, China actually has pretty strong IP laws and enforcement. There's just as much IP litigation in China as there is in the US, and foreign companies have a pretty good success rate in Chinese IP courts.
BobbyJo 5y ago
> IP law is what it is, but you can make very good arguments that it (esp patents) doesn't actually help society at large, and that it shouldn't exist in its current form. I think you'll find a lot of people on HN who would back that. Software patents generally suck and most IP laws grant monopoly for too long. But also, some IP law is needed. I'd be willing to bet 90+% of HN would sign on to that. > Somehow when it comes to China, people grab for any excuse to criticize them and "stealing tech" is one of them I'd rather they not be relaxed for the express purpose of sharing technology and methods with an authoritarian government that promotes itself as the US's rival. Again, I'd be willing to bet most of HN would cosign that. I'm always really frustrated by comments that are like "HN/group always says X but now they're saying Y! So inconsistent!" Like it's somehow mandatory to completely disregard context and degree when forming opinions. It's not. You can say no to sex with someone without committing to celibacy. I'd be perfectly comfortable showing up on capital Hill and yelling that Biden shits his pants, but I would not be comfortable showing up in Beijing calling Xi Winnie the Pooh. It's ok if that informs my level of comfort supporting the technological progression of the respective institutions. > As for some professor getting paid, tech profs can be a pretty hot commodity, so it's not in itself surprising that a prof is making big bucks teaching people about his subject and perhaps also introducing his network. Tons of professors make good money. Great money. That has nothing to do with why this guy is in the news.