21 ms·

Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for allegedly hiding ties to China

144 points by happy-go-lucky 5y ago

hungryforcodes 5y ago
"The Trump administration said at the time Lieber had signed a five-year contract with the Wuhan University of Technology and was paid up to $50,000 a month to set up a joint Harvard-Wuhan research lab." Wuhan again for the win! Let the conspiracy theories begin....
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  This was meant in jest everyone -- relax. What happened to sense of humors in the West these days...
  - vmception 5y ago
    Jest not allowed here Or it has to be more cleverly disguised and passable as a substantive comment Stick around, you’ll see
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      +1 upvote (maybe disallowed to say that even :p)
      - sethammons 5y ago
        Yup, expect a downvote for this comment too. And it is ok. Comments should add something. A "plus one" is insufficient and can just be an upvote. Conversely, a plus one with an anecdote or link to data or similar content is usually well received. As for the comment that got downvotes above, the general view is that low hanging humor will degrade the site experience and I agree. Slashdot was a popular tech site but you could always expect upvotes for "first post," or "i for one welcome our new humor-avoiding overlords." A lot of quality slipped over time. Cheers and welcome to HN
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        Also no. Now what are you going to do?
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        In a sense -- a sense of humor is the foundation of humanity. Are you admitting your anti-human? It seems like it.
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        Some humor is tolerated on HN. It took me a while to get the feel for what us and isn't acceptable. There is humor, it just has to be well constructed (being tech related doesn't hurt either)
  - huntermeyer 5y ago
    Use /s when being sarcastic so folks are clear on your intent.
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      No.
GhettoComputers 5y ago
Is it really about tax evasion?
- Trombone12 5y ago
  Maybe, but it's in a context of strong Chinese = Enemy thinking that has been plaguing American academia the last years: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/asia/china-university-spies.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/asia/china-universi... https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/wrongly-prosecuted-chinese-american-scientist-moves-forward-new-complaint-against https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/wrongly-prosecuted-chine...
  - defaultprimate 5y ago
    The propaganda is strong with this one
  - Guessnotgauss 5y ago
    China isnt doing the US any favors, lets not pretend any nation state of that size on either side has alturistic intentions. But I am wondering why you are framing it like its no bid deal. How much does China share with the US? There is a history of IP theft, and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest. You could point fingers but then the whole world goes blind. Nationalism is blindness, better to be patriotic but not blind.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      IP theft is for the betterment of mankind. It was when the US stole British IP and it is too when China steals American IP. It's not also anywhere near as clear cut in self interest as you say. Even within China, Chinese companies aren't given that much IP protection. In the end 1.4 billion people are better off for it. I struggle to see how mankind isn't better off for it.
      - oxymoran 5y ago
netizen-936824 5y ago
>"Lieber also joined China's Thousand Talents Plan, a Chinese-government run program designed to entice scientists and researchers in the United States to share their research expertise with China," said U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling, announcing the charges. "Boston is an especially attractive target for this kind of exploitation and universities must become sensitized to this threat." But why is this a threat in the first place? Its never explained and assumed to be bad because "China"? This is completely absurd. I can understand the hiding the income angle for tax purposes, but sharing scientific information is not a threat. This is absurd
- oxymoran 5y ago
  It is absolutely a threat if it can be weaponized. It’s also a threat to give an authoritarian country that has every ambition to become the global superpower, our scientific discoveries. Let’s be real, what info is China sharing with us? Or is it really about China amassing information and not really about sharing at all?
- bostonsre 5y ago
  Is it normal for researchers to get paid that much money directly to one of their bank accounts for collaborating with outside universities? If it's not normal, doesn't that smell a whole lot like a bribe to you? It could be benign I guess but it definitely could also be a state sponsored or run operation to steal tech. It's not like China doesn't and hasn't pilfered outside businesses for their own interests.
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    IP law is what it is, but you can make very good arguments that it (esp patents) doesn't actually help society at large, and that it shouldn't exist in its current form. I think you'll find a lot of people on HN who would back that. Somehow when it comes to China, people grab for any excuse to criticize them and "stealing tech" is one of them. Certainly it is possible to come about knowledge by nefarious means, but that doesn't mean that it isn't legitimate for China to try to learn things from other people. As for some professor getting paid, tech profs can be a pretty hot commodity, so it's not in itself surprising that a prof is making big bucks teaching people about his subject and perhaps also introducing his network.
metaphor 5y ago
Previously discussed[1] almost 2 years ago when he was initially busted. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22176261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22176261
dade_ 5y ago
Assuming he is guilty of not declaring 600K/year in income, he needs to go to jail and the US treats tax evasion very harshly. Second, he should be fired and not allowed to work in an academic or research role as he clearly isn’t trustworthy or ethical. No need to mix in a China espionage angle, the guy is bad news. “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.” ― Catherine Aird
- adventured 5y ago
  > No need to mix in a China espionage angle, the guy is bad news. If there is legitimately a China espionage angle, then it absolutely should be in the mix. Why should that be left out or not relevant?
  - ryeights 5y ago
    Deflection and propaganda.
    - mmmpop 5y ago
      How can the truth be propaganda?
      - ryeights 5y ago
        Sorry, I don't think I follow? I was agreeing with adventured.
        mmmpop 5y ago
        Ah I see that now, forgive me for being so cynical as to believe that someone on HN would openly admit "we can't have those anti-CCP folks getting any more ammunition."
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        There are an infinite number of truths: there is a finite number of column-inches.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rlewkov 5y ago
He knowingly lied to the FBI, and the IRS. If found guilty the jail time is a must. He's a liar and cannot be trusted
5tefan 5y ago
Seems full fledged McCarthyism is back. Hope we're not blind to everything history taught us.
- boringg 5y ago
  I wouldn't call this McCarthyism. How is being a tax cheat being put on trial equate to McCarthyism unless all you are trying to do with that post is gaslight the conversation with pro-communism sympathies (i.e. china funding this guy). I am far more suspect of your using the term mccarthyism when not related whatsoever.
  - 5tefan 5y ago
    Emphasis is put on the fact it's money from China and involvement with China. Combined with unrelated other news stories during the last years, months, weeks we see clearly a blind rage when it is about Russia and China. US media (and politics) is running on fear and completely stopped investigating or analyzing when it is about Russia and China. And this is to me the essence of McCarthyism. Replacing analysis with fear and accusations. If tax evasion would be the real driver here a lot of other stories about high profile tax crimes should brake. But that is not the case either.
    - boringg 5y ago
      I think what is notable about this case vs other tax cheats that makes it less mccarthyism and more public interest. This is the head of one of the most prestigious universities chem department hiding over $500000 usd per year from being taxed and lied to the FBI. Mccarthyism is making up BS on people about their supposed communist leanings and raking them over the coals in public sham hearings / blacklisting them from working (ie hollywood). What makes it worse for the professor is that he took those funds from a country with which his own government has a very fraught relationship and whom is actively trying to espionage technology. Theres more to break on this i would wager but don't call it mccarthyism.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
quantum_state 5y ago
It’s a sad fact that the US always needs to create an enemy to fight … look at the wars we got involved, the lives and money costed … we should get out of this type of traps …

"The Trump administration said at the time Lieber had signed a five-year contract with the Wuhan University of Technology and was paid up to $50,000 a month to set up a joint Harvard-Wuhan research lab." Wuhan again for the win! Let the conspiracy theories begin....

hungryforcodes 5y ago
This was meant in jest everyone -- relax. What happened to sense of humors in the West these days...
- vmception 5y ago
  Jest not allowed here Or it has to be more cleverly disguised and passable as a substantive comment Stick around, you’ll see
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    +1 upvote (maybe disallowed to say that even :p)
    - sethammons 5y ago
      Yup, expect a downvote for this comment too. And it is ok. Comments should add something. A "plus one" is insufficient and can just be an upvote. Conversely, a plus one with an anecdote or link to data or similar content is usually well received. As for the comment that got downvotes above, the general view is that low hanging humor will degrade the site experience and I agree. Slashdot was a popular tech site but you could always expect upvotes for "first post," or "i for one welcome our new humor-avoiding overlords." A lot of quality slipped over time. Cheers and welcome to HN
      - hungryforcodes 5y ago
        Also no. Now what are you going to do?
      - hungryforcodes 5y ago
        In a sense -- a sense of humor is the foundation of humanity. Are you admitting your anti-human? It seems like it.
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        Some humor is tolerated on HN. It took me a while to get the feel for what us and isn't acceptable. There is humor, it just has to be well constructed (being tech related doesn't hurt either)
- huntermeyer 5y ago
  Use /s when being sarcastic so folks are clear on your intent.
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    No.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

Is it really about tax evasion?

Trombone12 5y ago
Maybe, but it's in a context of strong Chinese = Enemy thinking that has been plaguing American academia the last years: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/asia/china-university-spies.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/asia/china-universi... https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/wrongly-prosecuted-chinese-american-scientist-moves-forward-new-complaint-against https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/wrongly-prosecuted-chine...
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  The propaganda is strong with this one
- Guessnotgauss 5y ago
  China isnt doing the US any favors, lets not pretend any nation state of that size on either side has alturistic intentions. But I am wondering why you are framing it like its no bid deal. How much does China share with the US? There is a history of IP theft, and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest. You could point fingers but then the whole world goes blind. Nationalism is blindness, better to be patriotic but not blind.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    IP theft is for the betterment of mankind. It was when the US stole British IP and it is too when China steals American IP. It's not also anywhere near as clear cut in self interest as you say. Even within China, Chinese companies aren't given that much IP protection. In the end 1.4 billion people are better off for it. I struggle to see how mankind isn't better off for it.
    - oxymoran 5y ago

netizen-936824 5y ago

>"Lieber also joined China's Thousand Talents Plan, a Chinese-government run program designed to entice scientists and researchers in the United States to share their research expertise with China," said U.S. Attorney Andrew Lelling, announcing the charges. "Boston is an especially attractive target for this kind of exploitation and universities must become sensitized to this threat." But why is this a threat in the first place? Its never explained and assumed to be bad because "China"? This is completely absurd. I can understand the hiding the income angle for tax purposes, but sharing scientific information is not a threat. This is absurd

oxymoran 5y ago
It is absolutely a threat if it can be weaponized. It’s also a threat to give an authoritarian country that has every ambition to become the global superpower, our scientific discoveries. Let’s be real, what info is China sharing with us? Or is it really about China amassing information and not really about sharing at all?
bostonsre 5y ago
Is it normal for researchers to get paid that much money directly to one of their bank accounts for collaborating with outside universities? If it's not normal, doesn't that smell a whole lot like a bribe to you? It could be benign I guess but it definitely could also be a state sponsored or run operation to steal tech. It's not like China doesn't and hasn't pilfered outside businesses for their own interests.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  IP law is what it is, but you can make very good arguments that it (esp patents) doesn't actually help society at large, and that it shouldn't exist in its current form. I think you'll find a lot of people on HN who would back that. Somehow when it comes to China, people grab for any excuse to criticize them and "stealing tech" is one of them. Certainly it is possible to come about knowledge by nefarious means, but that doesn't mean that it isn't legitimate for China to try to learn things from other people. As for some professor getting paid, tech profs can be a pretty hot commodity, so it's not in itself surprising that a prof is making big bucks teaching people about his subject and perhaps also introducing his network.

metaphor 5y ago

Previously discussed[1] almost 2 years ago when he was initially busted. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22176261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22176261

dade_ 5y ago

Assuming he is guilty of not declaring 600K/year in income, he needs to go to jail and the US treats tax evasion very harshly. Second, he should be fired and not allowed to work in an academic or research role as he clearly isn’t trustworthy or ethical. No need to mix in a China espionage angle, the guy is bad news. “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.” ― Catherine Aird

adventured 5y ago
> No need to mix in a China espionage angle, the guy is bad news. If there is legitimately a China espionage angle, then it absolutely should be in the mix. Why should that be left out or not relevant?
- ryeights 5y ago
  Deflection and propaganda.
  - mmmpop 5y ago
    How can the truth be propaganda?
    - ryeights 5y ago
      Sorry, I don't think I follow? I was agreeing with adventured.
      - mmmpop 5y ago
        Ah I see that now, forgive me for being so cynical as to believe that someone on HN would openly admit "we can't have those anti-CCP folks getting any more ammunition."
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      There are an infinite number of truths: there is a finite number of column-inches.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rlewkov 5y ago

He knowingly lied to the FBI, and the IRS. If found guilty the jail time is a must. He's a liar and cannot be trusted

5tefan 5y ago

Seems full fledged McCarthyism is back. Hope we're not blind to everything history taught us.

boringg 5y ago
I wouldn't call this McCarthyism. How is being a tax cheat being put on trial equate to McCarthyism unless all you are trying to do with that post is gaslight the conversation with pro-communism sympathies (i.e. china funding this guy). I am far more suspect of your using the term mccarthyism when not related whatsoever.
- 5tefan 5y ago
  Emphasis is put on the fact it's money from China and involvement with China. Combined with unrelated other news stories during the last years, months, weeks we see clearly a blind rage when it is about Russia and China. US media (and politics) is running on fear and completely stopped investigating or analyzing when it is about Russia and China. And this is to me the essence of McCarthyism. Replacing analysis with fear and accusations. If tax evasion would be the real driver here a lot of other stories about high profile tax crimes should brake. But that is not the case either.
  - boringg 5y ago
    I think what is notable about this case vs other tax cheats that makes it less mccarthyism and more public interest. This is the head of one of the most prestigious universities chem department hiding over $500000 usd per year from being taxed and lied to the FBI. Mccarthyism is making up BS on people about their supposed communist leanings and raking them over the coals in public sham hearings / blacklisting them from working (ie hollywood). What makes it worse for the professor is that he took those funds from a country with which his own government has a very fraught relationship and whom is actively trying to espionage technology. Theres more to break on this i would wager but don't call it mccarthyism.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

quantum_state 5y ago

It’s a sad fact that the US always needs to create an enemy to fight … look at the wars we got involved, the lives and money costed … we should get out of this type of traps …